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Fant expressing frustration over contract talks


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41 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

You think Joe Douglas wants Fant to beat out his first ever pick as a GM for arguably the second most important position on the team by a player in his contract year?  I'm going to strongly disagree.  I think the Jets want Becton to show out and become an elite LT because that would be the best thing for the NY Jets and would make Joe Douglas look like even more of a baller than he already is which is good for his resume/career.

 

 

We’ll see.  I think he wants / needs to win now (8 games+) and the team that might get him there is Fant LT and Becton RT where Becton has better upside than Fant.

I’d bet you $10k but that didn’t go over well the other day.  I think I was goaded by a crazed man.

In any event, not necessarily a bad problem to have.  

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12 hours ago, DoubleDown said:

I can't blame Fant for trying to cash in after a career year, but the prudent move for Joe Douglas would be to see if Fant can continue the same level of play this year especially after a season ending injury in 2021.   Another factor is that we don't quite know whether Fant will end up at LT or RT.

The prudent move would be to offer him a team friendly deal.  I assume that is what they did.  Can't blame Fant for feeling insulted. 

Interesting part to me is that the Steelers are the one giving out the big deal.  Traditionally they are the ones treating their players like sh*t - Bell, Harrison, etc.  

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1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

 

So, this was my original post on this topic.  Biggs then argued that he was actually signed to start at LT simply because he was signed before the draft, which is terrible logic and untrue.  That's how this all started.

But right from the rip, I said, he was signed to play RT.  So that said, I agree, he was signed to start but I think it's quite clear, they never had any intentions of starting him at LT.  That was insurance.  The depth part refers to him being able to play both positions in the chance that they didnt get their LT and/or if an injury occurred.  I believe the Jets actions then and there after reflect my position ie; his contract, drafting Becton, signing a back up RT vs. a back up LT, etc.

 

I think the truth is in the middle which is why I quoted you both haha. There was a non trivial path to him playing LT but it wasn’t plan A.

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1 hour ago, freestater said:

That which is asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. 

-Christopher Hitchens 

Are you asking for me to assert that you, specifically, complained when Fant was signed, or are you asking for whether there were numerous complaints in general?  Because of the latter there was clear evidence.  The former, I was just taking a stab that you were one of the people complaining when he signed, because there were many.  

Either way, Douglas found a gem in Fant for a low price and now people are whining that he hasn't paid him, again, just yet.  Which is a pretty funny thing to me.  Fant isn't a Douglas problem.  He's a Douglas success story. 

Becton is obviously another story entirely at the moment.  

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1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

Which is fair but why right now if you're the Jets?  At least go into the season and see how Becton plays and see how Fant plays at RT, he was mediocre at best in 2020.  If Bectons shows out, Fant is very disposable and they can simply draft a RT and save money.  Just doesnt make any sense for the Jets to extend him right now.  

The biggest thing is, what if Becton doesn't show out? And misses half the season, let's say due to injuries or whatever. Just not as reliable as you want your LT to be. Do you now pay up even more for Fant to be your LT? Or are you now in the market for a new LT all together. 

I agree you move on if Becton shows he can be what he's supposed to be. A lot easier that way!

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They have been talking about a contract extension since March or so. I’d be upset to.

Hopefully something reasonable gets done by training camp.

Wonder how far apart they are?

I just took a look at what Spotrac estimates for next year’s class. Unfortunately they dont have an estimate for Fant.

Isaiah Wynn LT - $15.4M

Rob Havenstein RT - $9.8M

Matt Pryor LT - $4.3M

Orlando Brown LT - $23.3M

Signed this year

Terron Armstead LT - $15.0M

La’el Collins RT - $7.0M

Morgan Moses RT - $5.0M

Trenton Brown RT - $6.5M

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1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

Which is fair but why right now if you're the Jets?  At least go into the season and see how Becton plays and see how Fant plays at RT, he was mediocre at best in 2020.  If Bectons shows out, Fant is very disposable and they can simply draft a RT and save money.  Just doesnt make any sense for the Jets to extend him right now.  

The biggest thing is, what if Becton doesn't show out? And misses half the season, let's say due to injuries or whatever. Just not as reliable as you want your LT to be. Do you now pay up even more for Fant to be your LT? Or are you now in the market for a new LT all together. 

I agree you move on if Becton shows he can be what he's supposed to be. A lot easier that way!

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22 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

They have been talking about a contract extension since March or so. I’d be upset to.

Hopefully something reasonable gets done by training camp.

Wonder how far apart they are?

I just took a look at what Spotrac estimates for next year’s class. Unfortunately they dont have an estimate for Fant.

Isaiah Wynn LT - $15.4M

Rob Havenstein RT - $9.8M

Matt Pryor LT - $4.3M

Orlando Brown LT - $23.3M

Signed this year

Terron Armstead LT - $15.0M

La’el Collins RT - $7.0M

Morgan Moses RT - $5.0M

Trenton Brown RT - $6.5M

Fant is roughly a 14-15M type of player based on the comp to Armstead or Wynn. He's a finesse LT who can swing to RT out of position but his natural spot is LT

the thing about this Fant situation is they already screwed it up. The time to extend this player was in March. they take the 10 mil in cash he's due, convert it to bonus, spread it out over a few years, boom they just made 10 million in cap space. That could have been another linebacker or that tough run stuffing DT they needed. Shoot maybe they pay for a kicker who can hit kicks. 

instead they keep everything in cash, pay no one long term and missed the OPPORTUNITY to get better

it almost doesn't matter if they extend him now or not, because there's no one worth paying left on the street 

1 hour ago, Scotty Wooty Doo Doo said:

It was all good just a week ago . Remember all the praise Fant got for doing a stellar job last year , well that just went out the window .🤣

another amazing point 

as recently as a week ago, Fant was a PFF darling and amazing JD find

everyone loved Fant 

now he wants money? well he's just a swing tackle who needs to prove it again 

this fanbase loves it when Woody turns the screws on a player 

as if that extra money he doesn't spend gets distributed to the season ticket holders

this is classic capital vs labor stuff. to quote Carlin, It's a big club and you ain't in it. 

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1 hour ago, freestater said:

That which is asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. 

-Christopher Hitchens 

I now realize why you've been dodging this for a while.  I looked back at your post history around the time Fant was signed.  And though you assert that you were on board with Fant all along, the closest thing to any Fant-related posts were these:

 

  

On 3/18/2020 at 7:54 PM, 14 in Green said:

So a smart organization like the Seahawks thought Fant could be replaced by Shell, huh?

Sweet.

 

On 3/18/2020 at 8:06 PM, freestater said:

In JD we trust 😉

 

  

On 3/17/2020 at 4:07 PM, freestater said:

If we keep this up, we might be as good as we were last year on o-line. 

😶

 

That's it.  And nothing in the thread when Fant was signed.  

So it was just these plus a bunch of demands to draft as many OL as possible.

Yeah, you were really on board with Fant from the jump.  

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57 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

The prudent move would be to offer him a team friendly deal.  I assume that is what they did.  Can't blame Fant for feeling insulted. 

Interesting part to me is that the Steelers are the one giving out the big deal.  Traditionally they are the ones treating their players like sh*t - Bell, Harrison, etc.  

It's really a 36M deal.  In the NFL, the guaranteed amount is the only figure that really matters.

Not sure how Minkah is relevant to Fant.  They play different positions, and Minkah is a much better, more impactful player.

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4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Fant is roughly a 14-15M type of player based on the comp to Armstead or Wynn. He's a finesse LT who can swing to RT out of position but his natural spot is LT

the thing about this Fant situation is they already screwed it up. The time to extend this player was in March. they take the 10 mil in cash he's due, convert it to bonus, spread it out over a few years, boom they just made 10 million in cap space. That could have been another linebacker or that tough run stuffing DT they needed. Shoot maybe they pay for a kicker who can hit kicks. 

instead they keep everything in cash, pay no one long term and missed the OPPORTUNITY to get better

it almost doesn't matter if they extend him now or not, because there's no one worth paying left on the street 

another amazing point 

as recently as a week ago, Fant was a PFF darling and amazing JD find

everyone loved Fant 

now he wants money? well he's just a swing tackle who needs to prove it again 

this fanbase loves it when Woody turns the screws on a player 

as if that extra money he doesn't spend gets distributed to the season ticket holders

this is classic capital vs labor stuff. to quote Carlin, It's a big club and you ain't in it. 

Yup. I agree he is a natural LT in that Wynn range. Maybe a little less. The issue comes if Becton beats him out. Then he would be way overpaid as a RT. I think a deal wont get done until that battle is decided.

I think we should sign him as a LT and have Becton play RT. Becton is not the kind of guy we should be giving a 2nd contract to.

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Just now, GreenFish said:

Yup. I agree he is a natural LT in that Wynn range. Maybe a little less. The issue comes if Becton beats him out. Then he would be way overpaid as a RT. I think a deal wont get done until that battle is decided.

I think we should sign him as a LT and have Becton play RT. Becton is not the kind of guy we should be giving a 2nd contract to.

yeah it's a tough situation which is why I wanted them to draft Icky, and let Fant go back to being the overpaid swing/Becton insurance 

Becton making it to his second contract might be a moot point. He could have a Marcus McNeill type of career, or Orlando Pace burn bright but quick. There's not alot of plus 350 pounders going 10 years 

 

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Eh.  I get Fant's complaint for sure.  But he's not in a bad spot.  He's proven he can be a starting LT in the NFL at at minimum an acceptable level, when few would have believed that as recently as 1 year ago (as evidenced by Douglas likely being the only one willing to give him decent OT money the last time he hit free agency).  

If the Jets don't pay him, even at his age, he'll hit free agency next offseason and make good coin.  That's not a terrible place to be in the long run.

If he plays lights out, they might even franchise him.  But his pass blocking has to be elite like 2021 and his run blocking needs to improve significantly.  
 

Last year’s Franchise vale for a LT was roughly $16.5M.

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11 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

It's really a 36M deal.  In the NFL, the guaranteed amount is the only figure that really matters.

Not sure how Minkah is relevant to Fant.  They play different positions, and Minkah is a much better, more impactful player.

That’s not really true. Fant only got 10M in gtd on his last contract. After 3 years, he earned $30M.

The gtd matters, but it’s not the only thing that matters. 

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22 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I now realize why you've been dodging this for a while.  I looked back at your post history around the time Fant was signed.  And though you assert that you were on board with Fant all along, the closest thing to any Fant-related posts were these:

 

  

 

 

  

 

That's it.  And nothing in the thread when Fant was signed.  

So it was just these plus a bunch of demands to draft as many OL as possible.

Yeah, you were really on board with Fant from the jump.  

Yeah well he just feels he was on board how dare you raise facts. This is 2022, brah. Learn how to debate.

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3 hours ago, k-met57 said:

yeah because he was a swing tackle in seattle, he was an up and down guy and still is. his run blocking was not good last year, and his pass blocking while very good last year was on the left side where he may not stick with MB back....i would not rush to pay him.

Fant is good at moving backwards, not so great at moving forward. On a team that wants to run the football, that’s really not ideal. I appreciate that he had a nice season last year, but he’s really overrated around here. Some of it tied into the Becton hate, I’d guess. I wouldn’t resign him now, either, not unless it was for similar numbers to what he’s already getting. He’s someone I’d be looking to upgrade from. 

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19 minutes ago, bitonti said:

yeah it's a tough situation which is why I wanted them to draft Icky, and let Fant go back to being the overpaid swing/Becton insurance 

Becton making it to his second contract might be a moot point. He could have a Marcus McNeill type of career, or Orlando Pace burn bright but quick. There's not alot of plus 350 pounders going 10 years 

 

You’d sign up for a Mcneil career. He didn’t stop caring until after his rookie deal. 

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40 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Fant is roughly a 14-15M type of player based on the comp to Armstead or Wynn. He's a finesse LT who can swing to RT out of position but his natural spot is LT

the thing about this Fant situation is they already screwed it up. The time to extend this player was in March. they take the 10 mil in cash he's due, convert it to bonus, spread it out over a few years, boom they just made 10 million in cap space. That could have been another linebacker or that tough run stuffing DT they needed. Shoot maybe they pay for a kicker who can hit kicks. 

instead they keep everything in cash, pay no one long term and missed the OPPORTUNITY to get better

it almost doesn't matter if they extend him now or not, because there's no one worth paying left on the street 

another amazing point 

as recently as a week ago, Fant was a PFF darling and amazing JD find

everyone loved Fant 

now he wants money? well he's just a swing tackle who needs to prove it again 

this fanbase loves it when Woody turns the screws on a player 

as if that extra money he doesn't spend gets distributed to the season ticket holders

this is classic capital vs labor stuff. to quote Carlin, It's a big club and you ain't in it. 

Jets fans love Jets players until they outperform their contract and want to get paid.

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1 hour ago, Zachtomims47 said:

The biggest thing is, what if Becton doesn't show out? And misses half the season, let's say due to injuries or whatever. Just not as reliable as you want your LT to be. Do you now pay up even more for Fant to be your LT? Or are you now in the market for a new LT all together. 

I agree you move on if Becton shows he can be what he's supposed to be. A lot easier that way!

I hear you but I dont think it works that way.  You are worth what your value is on the market, could be wrong but I dont think situation dictates the contract.  Since Becton was selected, there have been like a dozen 1st/2nd round tackles selected in the draft, not all hits but some solid players in that mix.  It's really not that hard of a position to fill, typically. 

 

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9 minutes ago, jgb said:

Jets fans love Jets players until they outperform their contract and want to get paid.

Unique circumstance here. Becton not working out to date put Fant in a role he exceeded in creating more leverage for himself, especially with Becton still looking like he’ll be unable to play. Fant needs to strike while the irons hot.

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8 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Unique circumstance here. Becton not working out to date put Fant in a role he exceeded in creating more leverage for himself, especially with Becton still looking like he’ll be unable to play. Fant has all of the leverage here. 

For a fanbase that uses the OL as a frequent excuse of poor QB play, you’d think everyone would say give the dude another few mill. This has shades of Pete Kendall all over it.

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34 minutes ago, bitonti said:

yeah it's a tough situation which is why I wanted them to draft Icky, and let Fant go back to being the overpaid swing/Becton insurance 

Becton making it to his second contract might be a moot point. He could have a Marcus McNeill type of career, or Orlando Pace burn bright but quick. There's not alot of plus 350 pounders going 10 years 

 

I don't know if I understand the Marcus McNeill-Orlando Pace comparo.  McNeill got like a $50M 2nd deal and Pace is a HOFer.  Both of those guys are a hell of a lot better than Becton's floor.  

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Don't discount the drafting of Max Mitchell.  He could potentially start at right tackle either later this year or next year.  Douglas may want to let this play out through TC.  He's got Fant, Becton and Mitchell under contract.  I'm sure the teams prefrence is Becton and Mitchell next year and going forward.  Fant may have to twist for a while.   I could also see him being traded if Becton amd Mitchell look good in TC and a starting LT on another team goes down.  Not impossible.  

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46 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I now realize why you've been dodging this for a while.  I looked back at your post history around the time Fant was signed.  And though you assert that you were on board with Fant all along, the closest thing to any Fant-related posts were these:

 

  

 

 

  

 

That's it.  And nothing in the thread when Fant was signed.  

So it was just these plus a bunch of demands to draft as many OL as possible.

Yeah, you were really on board with Fant from the jump.  

What does a 14 in green posting have to do with me? The other two quotes from me don't say anything one way or another. You can keep trying to gaslight this whole premise of yours, but you're flat out wrong. I called going after Fant long before it happened and liked it more than most afterwards. If I had any idea how to search just my posts instead of scrolling through page after page of everybody's posts, I'd be able to find it. You can keep up your little yapping about the subject all you like, because I am 100% confident you're not going to find this smoking gun you're looking for. 

If those quotes are your evidence, you're evidence is  woefully inadequate. 

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Are you asking for me to assert that you, specifically, complained when Fant was signed, or are you asking for whether there were numerous complaints in general?  Because of the latter there was clear evidence.  The former, I was just taking a stab that you were one of the people complaining when he signed, because there were many.  

I'm not asking if you asserted that I specifically complained, you did. In the post I quoted. 

know you're "taking a stab" at it, because you have no evidence. 

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42 minutes ago, freestater said:

What does a 14 in green posting have to do with me? The other two quotes from me don't say anything one way or another. You can keep trying to gaslight this whole premise of yours, but you're flat out wrong. I called going after Fant long before it happened and liked it more than most afterwards. If I had any idea how to search just my posts instead of scrolling through page after page of everybody's posts, I'd be able to find it. You can keep up your little yapping about the subject all you like, because I am 100% confident you're not going to find this smoking gun you're looking for. 

If those quotes are your evidence, you're evidence is  woefully inadequate. 

 

37 minutes ago, freestater said:

I'm not asking if you asserted that I specifically complained, you did. In the post I quoted. 

know you're "taking a stab" at it, because you have no evidence. 

 

There's "no evidence", because you never stated anything about the Fant signing other than indirectly in the posts I quoted. 

But that doesn't help you like you say it does, because your claim is you were on board with the Fant signing at the time it happened.  You cannot make this claim, because there are no receipts suggesting you did even when you had every opportunity to do so (like in the Fant signing thread itself).  And the other posts I looked at it spanned several weeks AFTER the Fant signing.  Maybe you said to your friends you liked the signing or something and think that maybe you said something on JN to that effect, but you didn't.  

So the burden of proof is on you to counter this with evidence, not me.  You keep dodging it because you know you did not, but somehow think you're absolved from proving the claim based on there NOT being evidence.

Weird little hill you're willing to die on on this one.  Just say you didn't care one way or the other when Fant was signed and that would be good enough and we can put this to bed.  But you won't, so it'll continue.

And don't come back to me saying you don't care enough or whatever.  You DO care.  Hence why you got so annoyed and demanded proof.  Strange stuff man.  Strange stuff.

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10 hours ago, bitonti said:

The Jets don't ever find the bag for players who outperform their contract 

That's why woody loves jd so much 

He treats the players like sh*t.

grandpappy Johnson would be proud 

Why would the Jets pay Fant big money after one good year? They just signed the guy . . . 

Also, I guess you forgot Wilkerson, who got over 50 million guaranteed and then proceeded to do nothing? 

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2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Why would the Jets pay Fant big money after one good year? They just signed the guy . . . 

Also, I guess you forgot Wilkerson, who got over 50 million guaranteed and then proceeded to do nothing? 

MO wilk was like 10 years ago 

I wanted cam Heyward. How hard is it to draft iron heads son? 

As for Fants money... To pay this player in cash they lose the opportunity cost of the free cap space in the near term... That money could be used on agents in March 

At the extreme end, Its how new Orleans operates and manages to make moves despite being 80 mil over the cap going into the offseason. They extend Ryan ramcyzk and boom cap space 

I'm not saying do that to the extent new Orleans does but to not pay anyone, ever, is penny wise and pound foolish 

 

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54 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Don't discount the drafting of Max Mitchell.  He could potentially start at right tackle either later this year or next year.  Douglas may want to let this play out through TC.  He's got Fant, Becton and Mitchell under contract.  I'm sure the teams prefrence is Becton and Mitchell next year and going forward.  Fant may have to twist for a while.   I could also see him being traded if Becton amd Mitchell look good in TC and a starting LT on another team goes down.  Not impossible.  

Max Mitchell is at least one year in a pro strength program away from being a starter. Maybe 2.

He's talented and flashes... there's a lot to like in pass pro but MM does not have the functional strength at this point to be an actual starter 

Of course He could prove me wrong but that's what I got from his senior bowl tape 

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8 minutes ago, bitonti said:

MO wilk was like 10 years ago 

I wanted cam Heyward. How hard is it to draft iron heads son? 

As for Fants money... To pay this player in cash they lose the opportunity cost of the free cap space in the near term... That money could be used on agents in March 

At the extreme end, Its how new Orleans operates and manages to make moves despite being 80 mil over the cap going into the offseason. They extend Ryan ramcyzk and boom cap space 

I'm not saying do that to the extent new Orleans does but to not pay anyone, ever, is penny wise and pound foolish 

 

Wilk was 6 years ago. Woody owned the team six years ago.

 

This is a silly contention - The truth is, the Jets have had very few really good young players worth breaking the bank for. 

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5 hours ago, Biggs said:

As a rookie FA in 2016 with almost no college experience he ended up starting 10 games for Seattle at LT and played in 14 games.   He was plugged in as the starter for 2017 at LT and tore his ACL in pre-season.  The Seahawks traded for Duane Brown after he went down and was placed on IR for the season.

Fant came into the league as a very athletic prototype LT with no experience.  He ended up thrown in as a rookie and won the job.  He lost it to a terrible injury.  Seattle was a playoff team and they made a move to replace him when it was clear he was done for the season.  

Fant isn't a swing tackle.  He's a nautral LT and that's what Joe Douglas got.  We saw it last year.  He was terrific.  He's in his prime and unless the injury is an issue he should be a good starting LT for another 4 to 5 years. 

whatever mental gymnastics you need to do my man. he was as swing tackle by every definition for 2 years (18 and 19), his PFF grades have always been very mediocre, and his run blocking was suspect even last year. All that and even his first year with the jets wasn't anything to write home about. He may be an ok player, and a team leader, but lets not pretend he has anywhere near the kind of upside that you'd want to be very concerned about resigning him.

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13 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

whatever mental gymnastics you need to do my man. he was as swing tackle by every definition for 2 years (18 and 19), his PFF grades have always been very mediocre, and his run blocking was suspect even last year. All that and even his first year with the jets wasn't anything to write home about. He may be an ok player, and a team leader, but lets not pretend he has anywhere near the kind of upside that you'd want to be very concerned about resigning him.

You don't need upside from him.  He just had a terrific year at LT.  If he plays like he did last year for a couple of years in his prime it's worth extending him at a fair price.  

We don't need to pay our starting LT to be a great run blocker.  We need him to protect the QB.  

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