Trevor Lawrence (probably didn’t) lose 65% of total rookie contract on Bitcoin

[Warfish]

29 minutes ago, Jet9 said:

Maybe look into the buying power of a dollar since the invention of the Fed and get back to me.

29 minutes ago, Jet9 said:

Not sure what's wrong with having your money actually based on something rather than what some suit from the Uni-Party tells you. 

Who is the "Uni-Party"? 

[CSNY]

1 hour ago, THE BARON said:

Umm... I think you misunderstood my post.  The Jets LOST when Gase was hired.  That was the crime.  Mr. Coffee saddled the Jets with a con man that we all saw coming.  THAT was the crime.  

Aaaaahhh now I got it. ?

[Lurker89]

12 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Why is gold worth anything? It's shiny soft and conducts electricity 

It's not suitable for tools or weapons 

It's because of tradition. There's no intrinsic value for anything 

As for the value of the US dollar yes it makes sense that it would fall since the peak of the American empire in the 1960s 

Just because a currency goes up or down does not mean that it has no value. In fact currency can only inflate or deflate it never stays exactly stable 

Bitcoin is not a currency. It's a risk investment like a tech stock 

So you are going to just ignore the fact that i laid out for  you physical standards set a path of friction for monetary policy.

Without built in friction manipulation to the point of hyperinflation or near hyperinflation becomes much more plausible. Command economies can then play with the spout and inflate on a whim while supposing the best of intentions only to "unintentionally" flip the table in their own system.

The rarer the commodity used as backing the more friction you inherently build into the system you create. Thats why it was the gold standard and not the ****ing seashell standard. Gold is a scarce commodity. Its functionality is its scarcity.

I hope you are intentionally being obtuse. 

[Jet9]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Who is the "Uni-Party"? 

This is what I mean. The dollar is trash.

 

The Uni-Party is anyone with a D or R after their name. It's a big club and you ain't in it. Think George Carlin said something to that effect. I'm not talking about politics here. I'm talking about obvious scammers. Why on earth would you drop tens of millions of dollars on a job that pays $200k? Come on, huh. 

[bitonti]

18 minutes ago, Jet9 said:

Go back to 1913.

Is that when ponzi schemes were invented?

There's a central control of bitcoin btw. His name is Satoshi and if even one Btc comes out of his wallet the whole thing goes belly up 

Even more than it has so far 

You're talking about the loss of usd purchasing power? How about the loss of Btc purchasing power this year compared to last? 

Good luck with your bag holding I'm sure that will go well for you 

 

[Jet9]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

Is that when ponzi schemes were invented?

There's a central control of bitcoin btw. His name is Satoshi and if even one Btc comes out of his wallet the whole thing goes belly up 

Even more than it has so far 

You're talking about the loss of usd purchasing power? How about the loss of Btc purchasing power this year compared to last? 

Good luck with your bag holding I'm sure that will go well for you 

 

I said I don't know where I stand on crypto and I own very little of it. It's like I'm talking to ******* Alan Greenspan here. 

[bitonti]

11 minutes ago, Lurker89 said:

So you are going to just ignore the fact that i laid out for  you physical standards set a path of friction for monetary policy.

Without built in friction manipulation to the point of hyperinflation or near hyperinflation becomes much more plausible. Command economies can then play with the spout and inflate on a whim while supposing the best of intentions only to "unintentionally" flip the table in their own system.

The rarer the commodity used as backing the more friction you inherently build into the system you create. Thats why it was the gold standard and not the ****ing seashell standard. Gold is a scarce commodity. Its functionality is its scarcity.

I hope you are intentionally being obtuse. 

The second Elon musk tows a gold asteroid into orbit the entire market goes kerplunk 

Everything is a matter supply and demand 

Gold is valuable because people demand it for their wedding rings and what not. It's valuable because of tradition. There's nothing particularly special about gold or silver or paper. These are media that people assign value to for arbitrary reasons 

Like diamonds. A fat clear Rock is worth 100k if it's set right and cut right and put in a fancy platinum band. But the  market is controlled by de beers. On the secondary market that used ring loses like 75 percent of the retail value. And if de beers emptied their vaults diamonds become like quartz pebbles, pretty but worth very little 

At least a diamond can be used for a drill bit and gold can be used as a electric contact. We can write on paper 

The crypto currencies are literally collapsing as we speak 

 

 

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, Jet9 said:

I said I don't know where I stand on crypto and I own very little of it. It's like I'm talking to ******* Alan Greenspan here. 

The word fiat currency is the dog whistle. It's used to distinguish between the gold standard and the paper currency that has been used since the American revolution. All currency is worth what people believe it to be worth. The word fiat has no real meaning unless we're talking about the Italian compact car

[neckdemon]

6 hours ago, jgb said:

So basically it’s the dot com boom. Most will get wiped out but those that correctly/luckily pick the winners will profit mightily.

i'd say this is a reasonable comparison. 

[Warfish]

TLDR:  Any method of exchange, including all currencies, are only worth what society thinks it's worth. 

Act accordingly.

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The word fiat currency is the dog whistle. It's used to distinguish between the gold standard and the paper currency that has been used since the American revolution. All currency is worth what people believe it to be worth. The word fiat has no real meaning unless we're talking about the Italian compact car

Removing the gold standard resulted in ruinous government deficit spending and the emergence of budgets designed only to influence the next election cycle. Discuss.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

TLDR:  Any method of exchange, including all currencies, are only worth what society thinks it's worth. 

Act accordingly.

When society breaks down the only currencies worth anything will be bullets and strong drink.

If you want to be a post-apocalyptic billionaire, stock up.

[neckdemon]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

TLDR:  Any method of exchange, including all currencies, are only worth what society thinks it's worth. 

Act accordingly.

anything is worth whatever somebody else is willing to pay for it

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

When society breaks down the only currencies worth anything will be bullets and strong drink.

If you want to be a post-apocalyptic billionaire, stock up.

Wait, the Fallout video game series has assured me that bottle caps ("caps") will be the future post-apoc currency of exchange.

Have I been hoarding these for no reason?

[jgb]

1 minute ago, neckdemon said:

anything is worth whatever somebody else is willing to pay for it

And back we come full circle to PSLs.

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

Removing the gold standard resulted in ruinous government deficit spending

What, specifically, has deficit spending "ruined"?

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

What, specifically, has deficit spending "ruined"?

I was being flippant. Deficit spending is meaningless when you can print your own money and destroy the value of your creditors’ holdings.

[RutgersJetFan]

57 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Why is gold worth anything? It's shiny soft and conducts electricity 

The word you're trying to express here is smelt, Biff. Smelt. 

[Barry McCockinner]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

people who use the word "Fiat" currency are announcing in public they just don't understand modern economics

what's your suggestion, go back to the gold standard? 

cmon

money is always worth what people think it's worth and it doesn't matter if that money is made of gold, paper, beads or digital bytes

 

actually it does matter if it's made of gold, paper, beads or digital bytes. it is critically important and saying it doesn't matter shows a lack of understanding on your own part.

The purpose of money is to store and transfer economic value so we don't have to barter goats for houses. Scarcity is a core property of good money. The reason why things like beads failed to be good money is that they are not scarce and someone can easily introduce more beads into the economy without providing economic value thereby debasing the value of all the previously earned beads. gold is the most scarce and durable money on the planet which makes it much better at storing and transferring economic value than something like beads. You can't just flood the supply of gold like you can beads.

paper money was introduced on top of gold because gold is difficult to transfer and secure over larger physical differences (it's hard to ship gold 100s or 1000s of miles). central entities then went on to create more paper money than gold they had backing it up debasing the value of everyone's money. Governments then scammed everyone blaming gold for the problems created by printing more money than they had gold.

Now we're on a fiat standard where the money technology is even worse than beads at meeting the scarcity property of money. We're all being scammed and have no where to store the economic value we've created because the money is constantly being debased by a central entity creating more of it.

The gold standard failed because we allowed central entities to pretend to maintain a gold backing with fiat currency. We cannot go back to that because the problem was never solved. We can go to a bitcoin standard where there is no need for any central entity to print paper on top of it. We can easily transfer and secure bitcoin and it has all of the properties that made gold the best money in human history.

It's time to separate money from state. Satoshi bless.

[Irish Jet]

7 hours ago, neckdemon said:

crypto is just getting started really. it's going to have a real future. it's just very early. the ones who invest in the crypto currencies that will actually make it are going to be very rich (some already are obviously)

If El Salvador’s recent crypto experiment is anything to go buy we’re in for a treat.

[Lurker89]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Who is the "Uni-Party"? 

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Removing the gold standard resulted in ruinous government deficit spending and the emergence of budgets designed only to influence the next election cycle. Discuss.

On the other side of the coin.  Since the gold standard was removed there are more middle class people in the world than at any time in human history.  Less starvation, more housing, more cars, computers, dogs, dog whistles, etc., etc., etc.

We have gotten so poor because of the dollar going down it's almost a miracle on how much stuff we all have compared to the wonderful 50's when we had the gold standard and half the world was starving to death.  Now were so poor were literally burying ourselves in stuff nobody even knew we needed when we are on the gold standard.  Thank god our money is going down in value so we won't be able to buy more of this stuff we didn't even know existed when we where on the gold standard. 

 

[Barry McCockinner]

7 minutes ago, Biggs said:

On the other side of the coin.  Since the gold standard was removed there are more middle class people in the world than at any time in human history.  Less starvation, more housing, more cars, computers, dogs, dog whistles, etc., etc., etc.

We have gotten so poor because of the dollar going down it's almost a miracle on how much stuff we all have compared to the wonderful 50's when we had the gold standard and half the world was starving to death.  Now were so poor were literally burying ourselves in stuff nobody even knew we needed when we are on the gold standard.  Thank god our money is going down in value so we won't be able to buy more of this stuff we didn't even know existed when we where on the gold standard. 

 

as if getting off the gold standard is why technology continued to evolve ?

 

[Biggs]

Just now, Barry McCockinner said:

as if getting off the gold standard is why technology continued to evolve ?

 

Barry, if we didn't get off the gold standard you wouldn't be a bitcoin billionaire. 

[Lurker89]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

The second Elon musk tows a gold asteroid into orbit the entire market goes kerplunk 

Everything is a matter supply and demand 

Gold is valuable because people demand it for their wedding rings and what not. It's valuable because of tradition. There's nothing particularly special about gold or silver or paper. These are media that people assign value to for arbitrary reasons 

Like diamonds. A fat clear Rock is worth 100k if it's set right and cut right and put in a fancy platinum band. But the  market is controlled by de beers. On the secondary market that used ring loses like 75 percent of the retail value. And if de beers emptied their vaults diamonds become like quartz pebbles, pretty but worth very little 

At least a diamond can be used for a drill bit and gold can be used as a electric contact. We can write on paper 

The crypto currencies are literally collapsing as we speak 

 

 

Lol....

K Bit... 

The function of friction in monetary policy is lost on you. The idea that resistance is built into a system for intentional affect is just word salad you care not to address to instead speak in vague platitudes and strawman.

We could talk about Perceived scarcity vs real scarcity vs artificial scarcity 

If gold becomes as plentiful as seashells for instance a system built using gold as a resistance  would collapse and new system would emerge using something else with high scarcity or high perceived scarcity. 

Golds value is a societal structure. (Let's try to argue about what isn't a societal structure amirite?) Golds value comes from perceived scarcity, its use commercially as you suggested along with its industrial uses in the production of electronics but dont let that get in the way of your "it's only stupid tradition argument".

Do you want to have the actual conversation or devolve this thread into trolly games ... i vote trolly games because well thats  more fun for both of us.... definitely more fun than discussing monetary policy with people who don't care to actually analyze the subject or do anything more than act like they know what they are talking about. It's better to be genuinely inquisitive than to argue points from a stance of infallibility and arrogance.... its unbecoming of a woman of your stature... but its okay cause you're  pretty ?.

 

 

 

Side note a fun deep dive into De Beers and their hoarding of diamonds for the sake of propping up scarcity and price.

[Lurker89]

38 minutes ago, Biggs said:

On the other side of the coin.  Since the gold standard was removed there are more middle class people in the world than at any time in human history.  Less starvation, more housing, more cars, computers, dogs, dog whistles, etc., etc., etc.

We have gotten so poor because of the dollar going down it's almost a miracle on how much stuff we all have compared to the wonderful 50's when we had the gold standard and half the world was starving to death.  Now were so poor were literally burying ourselves in stuff nobody even knew we needed when we are on the gold standard.  Thank god our money is going down in value so we won't be able to buy more of this stuff we didn't even know existed when we where on the gold standard. 

 

Going from physically backed currency to an entirely fiat can be seen as a necessary evolution from a booming expansionary economy that continues its proper functionality.

Resistance still needs to be built into the model. Resistance is naturally occurring in a system with physical backing. The question for a fiat system is determining what the device for resistance (artificial or otherwise) is and who controls it. This control lends itself to misuse and hyperinflationary models.

[Biggs]

9 minutes ago, Lurker89 said:

Going from physically backed currency to an entirely fiat can be seen as a necessary evolution from a booming expansionary economy that continues its proper functionality.

Resistance still needs to be built into the model. Resistance is naturally occurring in a system with physical backing. The question for a fiat system is determining what the device for resistance (artificial or otherwise) is and who controls it. This control lends itself to misuse and hyperinflationary models.

The USD is backed by the US government.  The US government happens to have the worlds largest gold reserves by a huge factor, more petroleum in our publicly owned stratgic oil reserves than any country on the planet.  Incredible amounts of stored uranium and other hard assetts.  Not to mention public lands which store gold, oil and lots of hard assetts that can be brought out of the ground.  

I don't know because I'm too lazy to look t up but I would guess our national debt is peanuts compared to the stored natural resources that are on federal land along with the human capital that's already here, not to mention the human capital that can be imported at the drop of a hat.    We also have the military ability to steel hard assetts any time we want.  

Today we are watching the Federal reserve destory demand.  That's deflationary.  We are also seeing the President cut taxes on Oil.  Inflationary.  Were dumb, we aren't perfect but any system will be manipulated by political profiteers.  

[Lurker89]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

The USD is backed by the US government.  The US government happens to have the worlds largest gold reserves by a huge factor, more petroleum in our publicly owned stratgic oil reserves than any country on the planet.  Incredible amounts of stored uranium and other hard assetts.  Not to mention public lands which store gold, oil and lots of hard assetts that can be brought out of the ground.  

I don't know because I'm too lazy to look t up but I would guess our national debt is peanuts compared to the stored natural resources that are on federal land along with the human capital that's already here, not to mention the human capital that can be imported at the drop of a hat.    

And I can get behind the idea that the new backing of the American dollar is every assest the American government possesses.

Rather than a single asset like gold its the grand sum of all assets or the net worth of the US and that the resistance built in is the leverage against those assets. The problem lies in the abstract nature of putting a numeric value on that sum in real time and using it as the active resistance mechanism in the model.

I dont think we disagree there. I think where we may disagree is in the practical application. Because if it was the case that the current M1 money supply was leveraged against the whole  ofall  American assets currently held in both liquidity and natural resources etc.  then the current money supply would have a lot more buying power.

Looking at it through your lens however does paint a picture of an American dollar with one hand intentionally tied behind its back. While it does not leverage the whole of its assets in it's current economic struggles it keeps what would appear to be a vast majoriy in reserves to crush it's economic foes globally if/when necessary.

I think something we can agree on is that there are a lot abstracts that affect the system especially in a global marketplace. For instance one of the attributes that props the US Dollars value up is it's ubiquity of use worldwide as a means of exchange and store of value. A major function of foreign aid is ad hoc forcing countries around the world to use the US Dollar as a means of exchange and thus its perceived value globally as the currency of choice.

Antother Abstarct is US Consumer confidence which is not great currently.  Record low of 50.20 points. 

A lot of variables in modern global economics. Many of which led to the need for a purely fiat system. A purely fiat system remains a red flag for potential economic collapse mainly if responsibility and stewardship is not found in those at the controls.

I'm not arguing for a reversal to a physical standard just intimating its purpose is placing resistance in a system that requires resistance. That resistance can be accomplished in countless ways by a responsible control apparatus.

[Lurker89]

4 hours ago, Warfish said:

Who is the "Uni-Party"? 

Wrong Louis quote before so ill add another meme to the pile ?

 

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

The USD is backed by the US government.  The US government happens to have the worlds largest gold reserves by a huge factor, more petroleum in our publicly owned stratgic oil reserves than any country on the planet.  Incredible amounts of stored uranium and other hard assetts.  Not to mention public lands which store gold, oil and lots of hard assetts that can be brought out of the ground.  

I don't know because I'm too lazy to look t up but I would guess our national debt is peanuts compared to the stored natural resources  

there's a famous story about how Mark Zuckerberg has a mortgage. The Bank gave him a 1% rate (less than inflation) essentially paying him to take their money 

that's the US government and the deficit. It's a billionaire who takes a 6 million dollar mortgage because he can (and because it would be negligent not to, the cash could be used for other activities) 

And the assets are more than natural resources (land and oil etc). It's also the Army assets, the nukes, the robot on mars, the stealth bombers, the james webb telescope and also cultural assets like streaming reality shows and whenever beyonce decides to release a song (yes im old). 

The US is borrowing against all these nebulous ideas when it issues debt and the market for 30 year T bills is as strong as ever. Because in part the US has never defaulted on said debt. Some countries like China have only existed in their current form since the 1950's and that old debt was defaulted upon. 

Meanwhile Bitcoin (and it's derivative s--tcoins) are based on nothing real. There's no FDIC to reimburse you when the exchange gets hacked. There is a central banker (satoshi) he's just AFK. 

the real truth is had I bought bitcoin when it was 300 bucks I almost assuredly would have lost my wallet, my passcode or whatever USB device that stores them. I would be like that poor Welsh dude trying to do an archeological dig in the local dump.

Because I am a jackass. Like most people. I can't be responsible for my own money storage. I buy Jets jerseys get someone sober to watch that account number.

It's the same reason why we don't bury cash in coffee cans in the backyard. 

this whole thing is why banks were invented. It's not some grand conspiracy it's because money needs management and currencies need a central plan 

[Barry McCockinner]

29 minutes ago, bitonti said:

there's a famous story about how Mark Zuckerberg has a mortgage. The Bank gave him a 1% rate (less than inflation) essentially paying him to take their money 

that's the US government and the deficit. It's a billionaire who takes a 6 million dollar mortgage because he can (and because it would be negligent not to, the cash could be used for other activities) 

And the assets are more than natural resources (land and oil etc). It's also the Army assets, the nukes, the robot on mars, the stealth bombers, the james webb telescope and also cultural assets like streaming reality shows and whenever beyonce decides to release a song (yes im old). 

The US is borrowing against all these nebulous ideas when it issues debt and the market for 30 year T bills is as strong as ever. Because in part the US has never defaulted on said debt. Some countries like China have only existed in their current form since the 1950's and that old debt was defaulted upon. 

Meanwhile Bitcoin (and it's derivative s--tcoins) are based on nothing real. There's no FDIC to reimburse you when the exchange gets hacked. There is a central banker (satoshi) he's just AFK. 

the real truth is had I bought bitcoin when it was 300 bucks I almost assuredly would have lost my wallet, my passcode or whatever USB device that stores them. I would be like that poor Welsh dude trying to do an archeological dig in the local dump.

Because I am a jackass. Like most people. I can't be responsible for my own money storage. I buy Jets jerseys get someone sober to watch that account number.

It's the same reason why we don't bury cash in coffee cans in the backyard. 

this whole thing is why banks were invented. It's not some grand conspiracy it's because money needs management and currencies need a central plan 

if satoshi were to show up today he would have no more control over the bitcoin network than you or I. There is no central banker and that's kind of the point. glad we agree everything else is sh-tcoins. I would also include the USD as a major sh-tcoin.

[Lurker89]

40 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Because I am a jackass. Like most people. I can't be responsible for my own money storage. I buy Jets jerseys get someone sober to watch that account number.

Agreed you are and so am I. 

 

41 minutes ago, bitonti said:

It's the same reason why we don't bury cash in coffee cans in the backyard. 

Stay outta my backyard and outta my mind you commie central planner ??.

43 minutes ago, bitonti said:

this whole thing is why banks were invented. It's not some grand conspiracy it's because money needs management and currencies need a central plan 

The problem isnt necessarily that currencies need central planning but how and by whom they are planned. 

Rules for thee but not for me and insider deals as a commonplace stance for the central planners and elites does not seem like much of a "grand conspiracy" ...you illustrated it pretty well with your Zuck story.

The predatory and adversarial global economic paradigm has made central planning necessary. World domination is a game that doesn't end, just a never-ending game of king of the hill.

 

So all in all we're ****ed either way. I'll go down buying Jets jerseys  and wondering what happened to my 401K with you. Honestly if you cant beat them join them. Vanguard may seem inherently evil,  but my Vanguard account was performing well until I liquidated it to move. 

[More Cowbell]

6 hours ago, bitonti said:

Why is gold worth anything? It's shiny soft and conducts electricity 

It's not suitable for tools or weapons 

It's because of tradition. There's no intrinsic value for anything 

As for the value of the US dollar yes it makes sense that it would fall since the peak of the American empire in the 1960s 

Just because a currency goes up or down does not mean that it has no value. In fact currency can only inflate or deflate it never stays exactly stable 

Bitcoin is not a currency. It's a risk investment like a tech stock 

Bitcoin actually is being used as currency. I work in real-estate and there are bitcoin mortgages. 

As for gold, It has value for it's scarcity and there is a whole industry called jewelry that it is the basis of. Same as silver. Copper is also a valuable metal for infrastructure.  

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

if satoshi were to show up today he would have no more control over the bitcoin network than you or I. There is no central banker and that's kind of the point. glad we agree everything else is sh-tcoins. I would also include the USD as a major sh-tcoin.

So what would you use measure the value of bitcoin in without state controlled currency like the dollar? 

[More Cowbell]

6 hours ago, Warfish said:

Who is the "Uni-Party"? 

Without wage escalation as part of chart, it's pretty useless.