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Matt O'Leary: Offense significantly ahead of the defense


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  • Bronx changed the title to Matt O'Lereay: Offense significantly ahead of the defense
33 minutes ago, chirorob said:

After all the draft capital JD has used I'd hope so.

Plus, you know, the defense was the nfl worst last year.  So that's not really setting the bar that high.

 

Exactly.  If the offense ranks, say, 22th this year, that would still be a very long ways from how bad the defense was in 2021.  So that statement could easily be true AND the offense still might not be great.

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5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

No, i disagree,

Our existing D had more supposed impact vets to start, we draft like 5 guys last year on d, then .  Then used our top pick on D this year and two more picks on rushers, we invested in FA big on D.

Our D should be way ahead of the offense, if it isn;t coaching is to blame.

IMO Saleh is lucky to have ZW taking all the bullets for 2021

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Last year we had a weak defensive roster… and top players and/or expected contributors got injured.  

Having said that, the current defensive scheme relies on talent to be successful.  The Gregg Williams defense relied on out scheming offenses and variability to get more out of lesser talent…

Time will tell if the Jets current defense can get it done.  There were very similar complaints in San Fran in Saleh’s first couple of years as DC.  And lingering complaints that the D was susceptible to giving up big runs - even when the D was on the rise.

I think the defense will be fine as long as the offense can move the ball consistently and put up points.

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Jets pass defense has the chance to be excellent IF Sherwood, Harris and Nasilreen can help sniff out the RB screen game & cover the TEs.  Both utterly unacceptable last year.

We should be able to create pressure up the middle and off the edge, the perfect recipe for sacks & turnovers.

Reed, Sauce, and Whitehead should have fans excited .  Sauce has the potential to be a true lockdown on 3rd down.  
 

As excited as I am about the pass defense, I’m even more concerned about the run defense.  Yes, the above 3 DBs should help while also allowing the Jets to stack the box, but how can you not be concerned at DT and LB after last year.  We lost Fatukasi and still have several wildcards.

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Hmm when I think "rebuilding", I think young and potential. IMO that's the offense. Defense is a mix of young and veterans. The LB position is the only spot I think is behind in rebuilding process. Either way, I wouldn't say significantly ahead. They're pretty close. 

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4 hours ago, Beerfish said:

No, i disagree,

Our existing D had more supposed impact vets to start, we draft like 5 guys last year on d, then .  Then used our top pick on D this year and two more picks on rushers, we invested in FA big on D.

Our D should be way ahead of the offense, if it isn;t coaching is to blame.

I can understand your thought process, but I question your use of the word “way” in this post. I don’t think the D should be “way” ahead. They just spent 4 1st round picks and 3 2nd round picks on offense the previous two years (iirc) and went heavy on offense in FA as well. If anything, at least on paper, I think the two sides of the ball should be about equal at this point. Honestly, I kinda hope the offense is ahead of the defense at this point. The D is still sprinkled with Mac dust. 
 

that being said, no matter which one is in front, defensive coaching needs to appear vastly improved this year. 

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23 minutes ago, the Claw said:

I can understand your thought process, but I question your use of the word “way” in this post. I don’t think the D should be “way” ahead. They just spent 4 1st round picks and 3 2nd round picks on offense the previous two years (iirc) and went heavy on offense in FA as well. If anything, at least on paper, I think the two sides of the ball should be about equal at this point. Honestly, I kinda hope the offense is ahead of the defense at this point. The D is still sprinkled with Mac dust. 
 

that being said, no matter which one is in front, defensive coaching needs to appear vastly improved this year. 

Most of the breakdowns last year were not because of scheme... just saying... missed assignments by rookies and UDFAs played a huge roll in the big plays by RBS.

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I dont agree with this at all.  Both units are drastically improved over last year.  Both units should finish around middle of the pack this year.  Ill say the offense finishes 16th overall and the defense finishes 18th overall.  That is not a significant difference.

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9 hours ago, Skeptable said:

Most of the breakdowns last year were not because of scheme... just saying... missed assignments by rookies and UDFAs played a huge roll in the big plays by RBS.

The Defense will be much better for the experience, but the rookies were mostly in the secondary. Most of the D line and linebackers werent rookies. Quincy was a FA, plus a rotating door at the ends, but other than that the front 6/7 were the experienced ones. Besides, if everyone’s missing assignments all the time then who the heck is teaching them? There can be more than one thing wrong at a time.

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The team was horrible last season.  Most of the quality talent was rookies.  
 

If this draft is another good one - probably still a full season behind what everyone hopes for.   I think 7-10 with the last 2 seasons rookies progressing would be great.

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My big problem with Joseph Douglas is that in no version of reality does it make sense for Joe Flacco to be on this roster, especially at his guaranteed number

he’s not a “mentor”

And if Flacco has to be relied on for any stretch that means your season is over and Zach Wilson either sucks or is injured again and can’t be counted on

in that case, even if you think MW sucks, you play him and tank it up for a promising ‘23 QB class

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If it isn't then that would likely be a catastrophe.

The defence should have improved but given where it was last year I can't see it even getting to league average level just yet. A lot of unknown variables would have to go very right for that to be the case and when it comes to the Jets that rarely happens. 

The offence however has had huge investment under Douglas and I think just about everything except QB has some talent that has proven they can do something in this league - Then you have Wilson/Hall hopefully providing a huge boost on top of all that. If it's performing worse than the defence then it means something has gone very wrong with Wilson. 

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12 hours ago, Beerfish said:

No, i disagree,

Our existing D had more supposed impact vets to start, we draft like 5 guys last year on d, then .  Then used our top pick on D this year and two more picks on rushers, we invested in FA big on D.

Our D should be way ahead of the offense, if it isn;t coaching is to blame.

You think the worst defense in the NFL should suddenly be way ahead of the offense?  I dont really understand this take.  Hopefully the rookies are studs but the investment on this team has clearly been on the offense, despite 2 first rounders on D this year.  Besides, they did address offense again, when hey took 2 in the top 35 w/ Hall only coming 10 picks after Johnson who was 16 picks after Wilson.  Seems like a very equitable commitment to both sides of the ball via the draft.  Free agency saw an equal commitment to both sides as well.  With JD revamping the TE room, and bringing in Tomlinson, some could argue are more impactful signings than Reed and Whitehead.

In general, this take is silly, not yours but this tweet or whatever.  When you're one of the worst teams in the NFL, no unit is "significantly" ahead of the other.  Nobody has any clue who Zach Wilson is at this point and the offense is relying on a lot of young players.  The more accurate assessment of this silly take would to have said something like; it's June, we know nothing, it will be interesting to see which unit hits the ground running and which unit needs more time to gel.  Matt O'Leary acting like he knows this as truth on June 29th isnt like an actual thing, the guys doesnt know sh*t.  Nobody does.  Its June.

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14 hours ago, Beerfish said:

No, i disagree,

Our existing D had more supposed impact vets to start, we draft like 5 guys last year on d, then .  Then used our top pick on D this year and two more picks on rushers, we invested in FA big on D.

Our D should be way ahead of the offense, if it isn;t coaching is to blame.

I wouldn’t be all that shocked if the defense was statistically ahead of the offense at the end of the year, but it certainly won’t be because of the supposed impact vets or five second day picks last year. It’ll be because they added ten pass rushers, two starting CBs and a safety. Could also be because the Jets run the football a lot on offense, helping to keep the defense off the field. Defenses rarely hurt themselves statistically when they’re on the bench. That was Rex’s #1 defense trick, and it’s a good one. 
 
There’s a lot of complaining about the defensive coaching last year, but the roster was pretty trash on that side of the ball - especially once Lawson and then Maye went down. This year, they have some horses. 

 

1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

Matt O'Leary acting like he knows this as truth on June 29th isnt like an actual thing, the guys doesnt know sh*t.  Nobody does.  Its June.

Did the Jets even call a rushing play this spring? Was there any real contact? You’re right, it’s dumb. The team added a lot of talent on both sides of the ball, it’s a matter of getting on the same page. Sauce and Breece both have ROY capabilities. It’s still all untapped potential at this point, though. 

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1 hour ago, IndianaJet said:

Who is Matt O’Leary?

And how does he conclude that either unit will be better than the other?  His expert eye seeing proof?  No. Camp? No. Preseason games?  No.  A guess based on what, the draft?  

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8 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

My big problem with Joseph Douglas is that in no version of reality does it make sense for Joe Flacco to be on this roster, especially at his guaranteed number

he’s not a “mentor”

And if Flacco has to be relied on for any stretch that means your season is over and Zach Wilson either sucks or is injured again and can’t be counted on

in that case, even if you think MW sucks, you play him and tank it up for a promising ‘23 QB class

I’ve heard this plenty from people who haven’t taken a serious look at what a typical QB2 looks like this year, as though the league is simply littered with 10+ game winning QB1s in disguise as backups.

Flacco wasn’t my #1 choice either, but he was a far cry from last. Most of the backup QB2s in the league would be clear downgrades from Flacco, if not also downgrades from our current QB3. If he’s capable of regularly leading a pretty bad offense to >20 ppg then the unfortunate reality is that’s between an adequate and an above average QB2 independent of any mentor-ish role. 

That is the more accurate “version of reality” tbh. 

“Mentor” isn’t at all my favorite role for an active rostered player; they’re paid to be players not coaches & I’d rather they spend twice Flacco’s pay on a McCown - or Flacco faik - as a non-rostered mentor-type who doesn’t hit the cap. But it’s also ignorant to suggest a serious veteran/has-been QB has no stabilizing effect on a young QB. Particularly when that QB’s accepted his role after being given the message - from every team in the league - that no one will have him even competing for a QB1 job anymore, but we’ll pay you well to support fully someone else while he’s on the field. It’s a slow, hard thing for many to take, and they don’t embrace the role of helping rather than trying to overtake (even undercut) a teammate for the starting job.

There are some things a coach isn’t going to communicate as well as a been-there-done-that player can pass on better as he’s struggling. The OC can say he’s going to simplify some things, but a young gunslinger is more likely to embrace that - and not think it means he’s being held back from success - when a strong-armed, former SB MVP, veteran teammate mockingly says somethign like, “Wait, do you actually believe every young probowl QB breaks down every defender on the field like when you’ve got 10-20 seconds of film-room time, just like a veteran Brady, Rodgers, etc. seem to do in ~2 seconds from the pocket? Well that’s pretty dumb. Even for them, it took years on the field to be that good from the neck-up, and far less-cerebral QBs throw for 4000 (or even 5000) yards and dozens of TDs. Bite off what you can actually chew; the rest will come in time.” He needed not just to hear that, but to hear it from the right person imo. That doesn’t mean Wilson will surely be a stud QB, but it’ll help further that goal if it’s possible.

So I don’t think that a mentor-type QB2 is all-valuable, but I definitely don’t agree with the notion that one has no more value than just having an inexperienced QB2 like White (or drafting another rookie in ‘22) either.

Lastly, we’re past tear-down mode, and under no circumstances could I back this ‘22 team tanking half a season or more for anyone. A win-now roster is largely (we hope mostly) put together, and next year’s draft & FA period should be topping that off & swapping out last pieces; not going balls-deep on another rookie QB in round 1. If Wilson is no better than last year they should be at best drafting another on day 2 (if not day 3) who doesn’t need to start day 1 ready or not; develop him slowly (if he develops at all); and try to get there with the best veteran starter they can get their hands on. Incidentally, this strategy worked for the last couple SB champs. Every time you’ve built around the wrong young QB and want to go in another direction the answer isn’t to tank to start over again with another rookie QB learning on the job. The Bucs & Rams wouldn’t have won the last 2 SBs if they’d instead handed win-now teams to rookie QBs.

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  • Bronx changed the title to Matt O'Leary: Offense significantly ahead of the defense
7 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

My big problem with Joseph Douglas is that in no version of reality does it make sense for Joe Flacco to be on this roster, especially at his guaranteed number

he’s not a “mentor”

And if Flacco has to be relied on for any stretch that means your season is over and Zach Wilson either sucks or is injured again and can’t be counted on

in that case, even if you think MW sucks, you play him and tank it up for a promising ‘23 QB class

False.  Flacco has been mentioned telling Zach few QBs know the defense like Zach is trying and none did in year 2.  Flacco has been helping Zach simplify. 
 

BONUS INFO BECAUSE I DONT KNOW WHERE TO PUT IT:   Zach is capable of going off schedule based on what the defense is doing.  I forgot this and found this quote while looking for something else: 
 

The run:  looks like a crowd at the line of scrimmage:

 

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1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Really? No room for Super Bowl MVP who had one of the best post season performances ever? But yeah? Zach go’s down and we should just tank  again for a chance at a franchise QB. Sounds like a fantastic plan, let’s go through another season we don’t win 5 games for a  to maybe draft a franchise QB and maybe we pick the right one this time.  Since if we tank it’s practically  guaranteed we get the chance to draft the right one.  I mean what’s the damage of another losing season right? Won’t have no effect on rest of the team. Joe Flacco is more than capable of taking this upgraded offense to a winning record. Providing we aren’t already at 6-7 loses before he gets the nod. This isn’t Madden, where you can just play another season. This team, franchise, front office and fans need a winning season NOW. Period! 

CS, Saleh and LaFleur both said that Flaccos been great, has really been a mentor to Wilson.  That anyone believes you have to have been an all time great to be a mentor just doesn’t have a clue what a mentor does.  

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1 hour ago, slats said:

I wouldn’t be all that shocked if the defense was statistically ahead of the offense at the end of the year, but it certainly won’t be because of the supposed impact vets or five second day picks last year. It’ll be because they added ten pass rushers, two starting CBs and a safety. Could also be because the Jets run the football a lot on offense, helping to keep the defense off the field. Defenses rarely hurt themselves statistically when they’re on the bench. That was Rex’s #1 defense trick, and it’s a good one. 
 
There’s a lot of complaining about the defensive coaching last year, but the roster was pretty trash on that side of the ball - especially once Lawson and then Maye went down. This year, they have some horses. 

 

Did the Jets even call a rushing play this spring? Was there any real contact? You’re right, it’s dumb. The team added a lot of talent on both sides of the ball, it’s a matter of getting on the same page. Sauce and Breece both have ROY capabilities. It’s still all untapped potential at this point, though. 

Offense is always ahead of defense playing Flag Football but even if it looked better, as we know, there really isnt a great indicator for season success in the preseason ancd camps.  Teams/players look awful, come out and play great.  Teams/players look great, come out awful ie: Wilson last year.  So I dont even know once they start hitting that you can even making any proclamation without seeing the regular season product.

 

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