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GM Comparison: Lil’ Bill vs. JD; TE Position


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6 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

Imagine getting Mark Andrews type of performance!

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I don't think the Jets are going to be that pass happy to get a thousand yards out of a tight end.  Not with the receivers they have now. 

I can see Davis, Moore, Wilson, CJ, Conklin, Barrios, and the backs (combined) getting around 400-600 each.  

Mims, Ruckert, and the other receivers could each chip in 200-400 when called upon to play.  

There's A LOT of talent there, Zach just has to get them the ball. 

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1 minute ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

 

I don't think the Jets are going to be that pass happy to get a thousand yards out of a tight end.  Not with the receivers they have now. 

I can see Davis, Moore, Wilson, CJ, Conklin, Barrios, and the backs (combined) getting around 400-600 each.  

Baltimore is a run 1st offense and with last year’s injuries to their RB group, Andrews got significantly more targets. 

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8 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

Overall I think JD got better value from a contractual perspective over GM - BB

Did he? BB is paying 1m (~25%) less per TD than JD is.. I'd gladly pay 17m over the course of a season for 7 more points per game. 

I like what JD did with the TEs and think they're both good value players, but the endless attempts to take every little thing and turn it into some sort of amazing, genius move by JD is a bit tiring. 

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1 hour ago, jeremy2020 said:

Did he? BB is paying 1m (~25%) less per TD than JD is.. I'd gladly pay 17m over the course of a season for 7 more points per game. 

I like what JD did with the TEs and think they're both good value players, but the endless attempts to take every little thing and turn it into some sort of amazing, genius move by JD is a bit tiring. 

So let’s look at this logically. NE had no quality WRs to speak of. 80% of NE offense flowed through the RB’s & TE’s. 
 

Conklin in Minnesota had Jefferson and Theilen and Cook. 
 

CJ had Chase, Higgins and Mixon. 
 

I think you can expect Henry/Smith production for the Jets this season based on Zach still getting comfortable reading defenses.  Is this fair to think?

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19 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

So let’s look at this logically. NE had no quality WRs to speak of. 80% of NE offense flowed through the RB’s & TE’s. 
 

Conklin in Minnesota had Jefferson and Theilen and Cook. 
 

CJ had Chase, Higgins and Mixon. 
 

I think you can expect Henry/Smith production for the Jets this season based on Zach still getting comfortable reading defenses.  Is this fair to think?

If our TDs score 17+ TDs we're making the playoffs. From your lips....

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36 minutes ago, Jethead said:

If our TDs score 17+ TDs we're making the playoffs. From your lips....

Red Zone will account for 12+ TD’s for the TE group IMO (CJ, Conklin & Ruckert) Hoping for a few extra seam routes for another 2 or 3.

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lil bill drafted two te in the 3rd round the year before he had to shell out mega dough for tes he also cannot draft a wr to save his life.  One of the worst drafters in the league over the years.

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2 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

So let’s look at this logically. NE had no quality WRs to speak of. 80% of NE offense flowed through the RB’s & TE’s. 
 

Conklin in Minnesota had Jefferson and Theilen and Cook. 
 

CJ had Chase, Higgins and Mixon. 
 

I think you can expect Henry/Smith production for the Jets this season based on Zach still getting comfortable reading defenses.  Is this fair to think?

NE had a rookie QB throwing to their TEs.. who didn't have WRs to take away attention of the defense... 

We can play this game all day... JD made a very good move with these TEs, but this forum has some obsession with attributing genius to everything JD does without the results..

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4 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

Did he? BB is paying 1m (~25%) less per TD than JD is.. I'd gladly pay 17m over the course of a season for 7 more points per game. 

I like what JD did with the TEs and think they're both good value players, but the endless attempts to take every little thing and turn it into some sort of amazing, genius move by JD is a bit tiring. 

The talent level between each set of TEs is comparable. Id take the Pats duo but we’re not that far off.

Looking at TDs is good but not the end all be all. CJ played on the Bengals. He was at best 3rd option in the red zone. On the Pats, their TEs are the first two options because of their poor WRs. Conklin was likely also at best the 3rd option. 

Henry’s contract looks very reasonable though.

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13 hours ago, Jethead said:

I didn't realize Pats duo had 17 tds. Impressive. If we can come close we be ballin'.

They didn't. The Smith stats are way off. He had 294 yds and 1 TD

Had him on my bench in fantasy for about 8 weeks before I dropped him. Henry had nice production though

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lil bill drafted two te in the 3rd round the year before he had to shell out mega dough for tes he also cannot draft a wr to save his life.  One of the worst drafters in the league over the years.
Apparently if you have a good enough qb then drafting good wr's or te's don't matter.

If you are not sure what the hell you got at qb then you need to make damn well sure thar all the skill positions are better than average.

Sent from the NY Jets /Zack Wilson Suicide Watch desk.

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2 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

NE had a rookie QB throwing to their TEs.. who didn't have WRs to take away attention of the defense... 

We can play this game all day... JD made a very good move with these TEs, but this forum has some obsession with attributing genius to everything JD does without the results..

I didn’t ever say he was a genius….. I just said he handled these signing’s better than Lil’ Bill. strictly from a financial standpoint. We’ll see how he did from a talent perspective after they play a full season.

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14 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

Did he? BB is paying 1m (~25%) less per TD than JD is.. I'd gladly pay 17m over the course of a season for 7 more points per game. 

I like what JD did with the TEs and think they're both good value players, but the endless attempts to take every little thing and turn it into some sort of amazing, genius move by JD is a bit tiring. 

Except that those are stats for each TE prior to becoming Patriots. Smith had one TD for the Patriots. Henry was the productive one with 9. So I think you need to recalculate.

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11 hours ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Interesting thread and a natural comparison point, given that Belli went all in on FA TE's last year. Jets have the better overall talent (WR and TE), which is a tribute to Douglas's acquisitions/draft picks. Ruckert in the wings is the way to do it. The future is bright.

Very encouraging to think that in the last two drafts & FA we have acquired a sprinkling of young talent to go with solid veterans across 6 key positional groups. 

WR- Davis, Berrios, Moore & Wilson

RB- Carter & Hall

Edge- Lawson, Martin, JJ

TE- Ruckert, CJ & Conklin

CB- Reed, Sauce, Carter, Echols & Hall(‘20)

OL- Tomlinson, AVT, Becton (‘20)

It really hurts that the ‘20 draft has been such a disappointment so far  We really need all these draft picks (especially Becton) to step up and live up to their draft status  

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49 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Except that those are stats for each TE prior to becoming Patriots. Smith had one TD for the Patriots. Henry was the productive one with 9. So I think you need to recalculate.

Turns out the stats for the guys the Jets signed are not for what they're doing on the Jets either. 

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I absolutely love our TE room and the matchups that it is going to provide us, particularly with Conklin's pass blocking.

Being able to have Conklin, Breece, Moore, Wilson and Davis on the field will allow us run true play action, with Conklin staying in to block, giving time for Zach to hit some throws down the field.  Its simply too difficult to keep those 3 WRs covered, along with Breece out of the backfiled, without a pass rush and having Conklin as an extra linemen will make it really hard to generate pressure. 

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17 hours ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

 

I don't think the Jets are going to be that pass happy to get a thousand yards out of a tight end.  Not with the receivers they have now. 

I can see Davis, Moore, Wilson, CJ, Conklin, Barrios, and the backs (combined) getting around 400-600 each.  

Mims, Ruckert, and the other receivers could each chip in 200-400 when called upon to play.  

There's A LOT of talent there, Zach just has to get them the ball. 

There have only been 52 1,000 yard performances from TEs in the history of the league. 30 of those are owned by 8 guys.

Granted we have 17 games now but it’s a very safe bet no Jets TE will go over 1,000 this season. 

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1 hour ago, jgb said:

Granted we have 17 games now but it’s a very safe bet no Jets TE will go over 1,000 this season. 

Agreed…… only due to Zach’s struggles. The 49er offense, with a strong running game, still used the TE to set up the rest of the offense. CJ could put up Kittle numbers if Zach can elevate his understanding of the system and accuracy.

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5 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Agreed…… only due to Zach’s struggles. The 49er offense, with a strong running game, still used the TE to set up the rest of the offense. CJ could put up Kittle numbers if Zach can elevate his understanding of the system and accuracy.

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When I was looking up the figures I was surprised to see Kittle “only” has two 1,000 yard seasons. In fact, only 8 TEs in league history have more than two (Kittle will soon make 9). Even for an elite HOF bound TE, 1,000 yards is still a high bar.

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7 minutes ago, jgb said:

When I was looking up the figures I was surprised to see Kittle “only” has two 1,000 yard seasons. In fact, only 8 TEs in league history have more than two (Kittle will soon make 9). Even for an elite HOF bound TE, 1,000 yards is still a high bar.

910 yards while missing 3 games is arguably the equivalent of a 1,000 yard season. My point being, CJ will have every opportunity to get 1,000 yards if he and Zach get a Brady/Gronk, Jimmy G/Kittle, PM/Kelce kind of love ❤️ going. 

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14 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

910 yards while missing 3 games is arguably the equivalent of a 1,000 yard season. My point being, CJ will have every opportunity to get 1,000 yards if he and Zach get a Brady/Gronk, Jimmy G/Kittle, PM/Kelce kind of love ❤️ going. 

I’m sure there’s plenty of “near misses” over the years if you want to account for injuries, etc. But most of the 52 1,000 seasons are right over the line. Not many TEs produce enough YPG to “absorb” a multi-game absence and still hit 1,000. Staying healthy is part of the reason for the rarity of 1,000 TE seasons. 1,000 yards is a bit arbitrary sure but it is a round number and it’s easy to find stats based on this number. If one were so inclined they could plot historical TE YPG per season and make a list that way.

17 game seasons will also have an impact.

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8 minutes ago, jgb said:

I’m sure there’s plenty of “near misses” over the years if you want to account for injuries, etc. But staying healthy is part of the reason for the rarity of 1,000 TE seasons. It’s part of the game.

17 game seasons will also have an impact.

My point being, CJ will have every opportunity to get 1,000 yards if he and Zach get a Brady/Gronk, Jimmy G/Kittle, PM/Kelce kind of love  going. 

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13 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

My point being, CJ will have every opportunity to get 1,000 yards if he and Zach get a Brady/Gronk, Jimmy G/Kittle, PM/Kelce kind of love  going. 

Yes if #2 and CJ create an elite pairing they should produce elite numbers.

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3 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

Turns out the stats for the guys the Jets signed are not for what they're doing on the Jets either. 

which was obvious. But the question remains whether Belli got his money's worth. I read the OP's post as positing a question for the coming season. But we know so far that Jonnu Smith is an utter mediocrity. Henry was productive.

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