Baker traded to Carolina

[jgb]

37 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I disagree.  Zach sucked last year as an NFL QB is actual an optimistic take on the future.  Sucked doesn't imply still sucks or will suck forever.  It's just the reality of last years play.   When I say Zach sucked, I mean Zach sucked.  Not that he will continue to suck.  That's to be determined. 

Becton was fat and looked slow in camp last year.  He was bitched by all reports by Lawson.  Lawson who's shown some potential in the NFL has 20 sacks in 51 games played.  He's not Lawrence Taylor.   Becton, unlike Zach was very good in his rookie year.  He also seemed to tap out of a few games and plays.  That might be harsh but it appeared that way.   Hope he comes to play and is in great shape.  I'm willing to fat shame him in the hope that it motivates him.  The BIg Bust shirt seems to confirm that he is taking the fat shaming positively.  Unless you're in the camp that he literally believes he's a Big Bust.  I don't think that's the case.  He seems to have turned it into a positive.  Again to be determined by actual results on the field.  

Zach is a gigolo is a very positive take on Zach.  It implies mucho MOJO.  What elite NFL QB doesn't have mucho MOJO.  My guess Kirk Cousins doesn't have it which is why he really isn't an elite QB.  Kirk Cousins isn't banging his mom's BFF any  time soon.  He's also not going to the SB any time soon.  

You are my spirit animal as far as QB evals go. That last paragraph is ? 

[The Crusher]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

You are my spirit animal as far as QB evals go. That last paragraph is ? 

That paragraph gave me a sparkle  of hope where there was none. 

[jgb]

10 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

That paragraph gave me a sparkle  of hope where there was none. 

Honestly, it was divine and perfect and beautiful beyond human comprehension.

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, PorP said:

Your rationale for it not being off topic is a bit mind boggling..... to quote Billy Madison. Everyone in the room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul. 

Let's agree to disagree. 

/shrug, while I do love me a good Billy Madison reference, I agree (to disagree).

Ultimately, we're going to see Zach brought up in every thread, it simply is what it is.

2 hours ago, PorP said:

On your second part of the post.  I know you're right.  Looking very forward to TC and if Zach does good the constant barrage of "doesn't matter unless he does it in a game"

Because it doesn't really matter till he does it in games that count.  TC is practice.  That's probably why you'd hear that, lol.

2 hours ago, PorP said:

If he does bad same exact people no longer need to see a game... "see I told you he was crap"

No doubt, but my own view is again, TC is practice.  Preseason games and regular season games is where I plan to evaluate him.

[jgb]

1 hour ago, PorP said:

I don't know how your progression went on darnold but mine was something like...

Yr1, yup,  pretty much who I thought you were

Yr2, nice jump,  wish he was better with int's but maybe I'm wrong on him

Yr3, there you are cute little fella. I knew you were hiding in there somewhere. 

Beginning of…

Yr1 We lucked out

Yr2 Hmmm.. we should bring in someone better than Luke Falk to back this guy up.

Yr3 I’m not watching any more Jets game with Darnold as starter (and I didn’t).

[PorP]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

/shrug, while I do love me a good Billy Madison reference, I agree (to disagree).

Ultimately, we're going to see Zach brought up in every thread, it simply is what it is.

Because it doesn't really matter till he does it in games that count.  TC is practice.  That's probably why you'd hear that, lol.

No doubt, but my own view is again, TC is practice.  Preseason games and regular season games is where I plan to evaluate him.

Ya,  the statement that good or bad,  doesn't matter till I see him in game is something I can get behind. 

[jgb]

3 hours ago, PorP said:

On your second part of the post.  I know you're right.  Looking very forward to TC and if Zach does good the constant barrage of "doesn't matter unless he does it in a game"

If he does bad same exact people no longer need to see a game... "see I told you he was crap"

There is a reason good practice performance is less cause for optimism than bad practice is for pessimism. The list of “practice all stars” who crumble when the bright lights come on is a lot longer than the list of Tim Tebows who look like dog turd in practice but inexplicably find ways to win games.

[UntouchableCrew]

23 hours ago, playtowinthegame said:

Baker had everything handed to him in Cleveland and he still didn't live up to the #1 overall pick in the 2018 Draft. I'm not saying Darnold is better, but I wouldn't characterize Baker as underrated. Notice how Odell Beckham went from looking like Randy Moss in Oakland to a good piece to a championship team on the Rams. Beckham's dad was right.

He’s an average QB who is capable of succeeding when things are good around him. They beat the Steelers in the playoffs and were going toe to toe with the Chiefs in KC in the divisional round — he was good in 2020. He was injured all of last year.

I don’t want to overstate the case here but he’s overrated simply because people in this thread are putting him in the same category as Sam Darnold and other non-viable options that simply cannot play NFL QB. Darnold has never sniffed average — Baker has been solid. There’s no comparison between their resumes. Darnold is awful. Baker is mediocre.

Certainly he’s not worthy of having been the #1 pick, I wouldn’t build my franchise around him. But it’s become trendy to crap on him and put him in the same convo as Darnold, Rosen, etc

Far from a given but I wouldn’t be shocked if he surprised people in Carolina.

[PorP]

19 minutes ago, jgb said:

There is a reason good practice performance is less cause for optimism than bad practice is for pessimism. The list of “practice all stars” who crumble when the bright lights come on is a lot longer than the list of Tim Tebows who look like dog turd in practice but inexplicably find ways to win games.

Everyone... including Brady and Rodgers has bad days. 0 Quarterbacks smoke everyday of practice. 

The only that ever matters is what they do when it matters most. 

[jgb]

17 minutes ago, PorP said:

Everyone... including Brady and Rodgers has bad days. 0 Quarterbacks smoke everyday of practice. 
 

Don’t mean every single day ? 

17 minutes ago, PorP said:

The only that ever matters is what they do when it matters most. 

Yes but you can extrapolate based on practice. I argue there is a stronger positive correlation between negative practice performer and negative game play than on the positive/positive side.

[PorP]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

Don’t mean every single day ? 

Yes but you can extrapolate based on practice. I argue there is a stronger positive correlation between negative practice performer and negative game play than on the positive/positive side.

Please tell me how many outstanding, mediocre,  bad practice days a brady or Rodgers has.... can you even say they smoke it 1/2 the time....

I'm not going to project an outcome from a set of events that are propose driven to facilitate growth.  I would not do that in the businesses I work and it doesn't make sense here. 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, PorP said:

Please tell me how many outstanding, mediocre,  bad practice days a brady or Rodgers has.... can you even say they smoke it 1/2 the time....

Apparently you don’t understand my point, and perhaps the fault is mine for not explaining it clearly enough, but I’m going to save both of us futile frustration by opting out of the discussion at this point. 

3 minutes ago, PorP said:

I'm not going to project an outcome from a set of events that are propose driven to facilitate growth.  I would not do that in the businesses I work and it doesn't make sense here. 

It’s a good thing you’re not a coach then who needs to decide who is cut or not based on these “growth facilitation sessions.”

[PorP]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

Apparently you don’t understand my point, and perhaps the fault is mine for not explaining it clearly enough, but I’m going to save both of us futile frustration by opting out of the discussion at this point. 

It’s a good thing you’re not a coach then who needs to decide who is cut or not based on these “growth facilitation sessions.”

Umm lol

Your point is based on something you cannot quantify... I cannot quantify it either and therefore cannot set a standard. 

Any monkey can follow a script that doesn't change.  Promoting challenge / failure in training and exercises is exactly how you gauge folks ability to learn / adapt and feeds directly into "cuts". It also works to try and make sure  they don't commit those same mistakes when it matters. 

 

[Dwight Englewood]

On 7/18/2022 at 7:54 AM, UntouchableCrew said:

You comparing him to Sam Darnold (who he has been consistently better than his entire career) is exactly why he’s underrated.

Give Sam the Browns roster his win/loss record would be identical 

[Dwight Englewood]

On 7/18/2022 at 9:42 AM, playtowinthegame said:

Baker had everything handed to him in Cleveland and he still didn't live up to the #1 overall pick in the 2018 Draft. I'm not saying Darnold is better, but I wouldn't characterize Baker as underrated. Notice how Odell Beckham went from looking like Randy Moss in Oakland to a good piece to a championship team on the Rams. Beckham's dad was right.

If anything baker is the most overrated player in the league.

[playtowinthegame]

35 minutes ago, Dwight Englewood said:

If anything baker is the most overrated player in the league.

Look at some of these weaponz Baker had in Cleveland: Nick Chubb/Kareem Hunt, Odell Beckham/Jarvis Landry, David Njoku/Austin Hooper. Thats "all you need" for Baker to get cookin. Lol

[Dwight Englewood]

3 hours ago, playtowinthegame said:

Look at some of these weaponz Baker had in Cleveland: Nick Chubb/Kareem Hunt, Odell Beckham/Jarvis Landry, David Njoku/Austin Hooper. Thats "all you need" for Baker to get cookin. Lol

Cmon, Jeff Malone, Braxton Berrios and a 50 year old Frank Gore are just as good if not better

[jgb]

On 7/19/2022 at 5:59 PM, Dwight Englewood said:

Give Sam the Browns roster his win/loss record would be identical 

Well we are about to find out when Baker is the CAR starter.

[playtowinthegame]

On 7/9/2022 at 1:41 PM, jgb said:

The only way Darnold starts a game for the Panthers this year is if Baker is caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy.

Or if Baker is released. LOL

[playtowinthegame]

On 7/9/2022 at 1:46 PM, jgb said:

Happy to also make a charity bet on it. Unless you’re just trying to plant a low-effort, no-risk stake in the ground to bump later if you are right.

BUMP

[VJphillyfan]

On 7/19/2022 at 6:38 AM, CSNY said:

In his rookie year Darnold and the Jets played one of the easiest schedules in the league (if I recall correctly only the WFT team had an easier one) where as last year Zach and the Jets played a harder schedule (ranked middle of the road like 16 or 17 hardest) so comparing the two based on rookie schedules is really not telling entire story that is why I don’t put much stock solely on numbers. Let’s not forget that Darnold lost to not one but two winless teams over the course of his rookie season. Granted it’s not just Darnold fault as it’s not only Zachs fault az it is a team game As it has been well documented and discussed Zach was constantly playing from behind as the Jets defense was just absolutely putrid which put additional pressure on him and the offense where the opponents knew the Jets had to pass and just teed off to rush the passer forsaking all run defensive commitments. 
People can just look at numbers and say this one better than that one but again all circumstances are different that’s why I do believe that given the choice to win one game right now Zach would be the choice of many 

Agree that hopefully Zachs performance after this year will erase all doubt and we all can put this discussion to bed 

Sam >>>> Wilson

 

You can drone on about strength of schedule, Sam had a horrible supporting cast and back to back horrible head coaches.

 

And that’s not enough >>>

[VJphillyfan]

1 hour ago, playtowinthegame said:

Or if Baker is released. LOL

He just beat Josh McDaniels.  Haha, eggs on your face

[CTJetsFan]

What he did vs. the Rams was amazing and put a major dent in some of the long held theories about starting QBs switching teams in mid-season.

[playtowinthegame]

24 minutes ago, VJphillyfan said:

He just beat Josh McDaniels.  Haha, eggs on your face

Baker beating the Raiders last week after only being with the Rams for a minute was unbelievable. I think getting released by the Panthers and landing with Sean McVay will save Baker Mayfield's career as an NFL quarterback. I hope so. I like seeing comeback stories like that.

[VJphillyfan]

5 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Baker beating the Raiders last week after only being with the Rams for a minute was unbelievable. I think getting released by the Panthers and landing with Sean McVay will save Baker Mayfield's career as an NFL quarterback. I hope so. I like seeing comeback stories like that.

Baker sucks bro. 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

 

43 minutes ago, CTJetsFan said:

What he did vs. the Rams was amazing and put a major dent in some of the long held theories about starting QBs switching teams in mid-season.

Recency bias is a disease. How does 10 minutes of football (aided by penalties) overcome two years of horrible QB play?  If the Steelers game was last week, would you be talking about how Wilson is for real and has turned the corner.  Good QBs play well for entire seasons, not a quarter here or a half there.  Mayfield is hot garbage and the ceiling for him (and Darnold) is to hang around for a few years a backup. 

[CSNY]

50 minutes ago, VJphillyfan said:

Sam >>>> Wilson

 

You can drone on about strength of schedule, Sam had a horrible supporting cast and back to back horrible head coaches.

 

And that’s not enough >>>

And your point is what?  that Darnold is better than Zach? As of now yes he is and Sam has been in the league twice as long also and still is horrible at least with Zach I can hold out a little sliver of hope that he can become a serviceable QB so Hets can get something back for for as of right now is a terrible terrible # 2 pick of the 2020 draft Not holding out much hope but you never know 

[CTJetsFan]

8 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

 

Recency bias is a disease. How does 10 minutes of football (aided by penalties) overcome two years of horrible QB play?  If the Steelers game was last week, would you be talking about how Wilson is for real and has turned the corner.  Good QBs play well for entire seasons, not a quarter here or a half there.  Mayfield is hot garbage and the ceiling for him (and Darnold) is to hang around for a few years a backup. 

Agree. Was referring more to his ability to come in and within 2 days function and win as a starter.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

4 hours ago, CTJetsFan said:

Agree. Was referring more to his ability to come in and within 2 days function and win as a starter.

He did that against one of the worst coached teams in the NFL and a team that has choked leads away repeatedly this season.  It was an interesting quarter of football, that's it.