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Baker traded to Carolina


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15 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes, the same Bills organization that once hired Rex Ryan as their HC following 3 consecutive losing seasons in NY leading to his ousting.  A total paragon of continuity and success prior to Allen's arrival.

The GM who hired McDermott and drafted Allen had nothing to do with Rex, fired him I believe

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6 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

 I live in SC, and thanks to this trade, I now get to watch my favorite NFL player quarterback a team I can watch every week.
In 12 years living down here, I don’t think I’ve watched 5 Panthers games. This season that’s going to change!

Soon as I heard about the Baker to Carolina trade I thought about you. Nothing could be finer than to be in Carolina in the morning. Am I right?! Congratulations on your new backup team. ?

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6 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

 I live in SC, and thanks to this trade, I now get to watch my favorite NFL player quarterback a team I can watch every week.
In 12 years living down here, I don’t think I’ve watched 5 Panthers games. This season that’s going to change!

 

 

Mazel tov. ?

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15 hours ago, Bungaman said:

Quite true. Too much is linked to the QB. Yet, the QB is vital. But having a competent team, front office and coaching staff around the QB often determines success or mediocrity. A great QB might be able to have some success, but a middle of the road guy probably ends up broadcasting college games. I think the Bills have done a pretty good job with the rest of their roster. 

JDs remake of the Jets roster is the really big story in NY. Need the QB to reach the ultimate goal but without the team QB alone can't do it. Jets should be 100% committed to Zach until they're not. Way too soon for that discussion.

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I take Joe Douglas not trading for a cheap Mayfield as a sign that he and the coaches believe in Zac.   If there was concern that he wasn’t progressing and they thought Mayfield was a clear upgrade, they’d definitely trade to fill the only major hole.   Imagine trading for a QB and making the playoffs to cap this off season?   Douglas and Saleh have contracts but only so much time to make it happen.   This tells me that they think Zac will become the QB they envisioned when they drafted him and there is no reason to hedge bets with a guy whose only goal would be to start.

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12 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

I take Joe Douglas not trading for a cheap Mayfield as a sign that he and the coaches believe in Zac.   If there was concern that he wasn’t progressing and they thought Mayfield was a clear upgrade, they’d definitely trade to fill the only major hole.   Imagine trading for a QB and making the playoffs to cap this off season?   Douglas and Saleh have contracts but only so much time to make it happen.   This tells me that they think Zac will become the QB they envisioned when they drafted him and there is no reason to hedge bets with a guy whose only goal would be to start.

I get the exact opposite impression from this non move. Regardless of what they think Zac will or will not become, the GM's job is to make the team better, this would be a better team with Baker even if you're hopes and dreams of Zac come true. I think they are afraid that getting Baker would hurt Zac's confidence and that hurts the team. 

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7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

That's great.  But it better happen then.  

If not, it's a massive failure of evaluation, judgement and contingency planning by Douglas and Saleh.

Smart people may "believe" a good thing will happen, but REALLY smart people still have contingency plans for if/when it doesn't.

And sorry, soothing the fragile ego and mind of a young QB by avoiding anything that resembles pressure or competition isn't, in my book, the way to make your team better overall.  

OIP.1bpSQYeM_c60nwCxHGq-DwHaEN?pid=ImgDe

Cure can't be worse than the disease. Baker is toxic.

JDs contingency plan is to finish building out the roster and then, if necessary, do a Goff for Stafford type flip. I'm ok with that.

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20 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

I take Joe Douglas not trading for a cheap Mayfield as a sign that he and the coaches believe in Zac.   If there was concern that he wasn’t progressing and they thought Mayfield was a clear upgrade, they’d definitely trade to fill the only major hole.   Imagine trading for a QB and making the playoffs to cap this off season?   Douglas and Saleh have contracts but only so much time to make it happen.   This tells me that they think Zac will become the QB they envisioned when they drafted him and there is no reason to hedge bets with a guy whose only goal would be to start.

It's exceedingly rare to see an Arizona situation where they dump a QB who didn't make enough progress. If Douglas / Saleh dumped Zac for Baker they put themselves on a shorter leash and have to win this season compared to another 'season of growth' for Zac. 

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1 minute ago, Jethead said:

Cure can't be worse than the disease. Baker is toxic.

Losing is toxic.  There is no worse disease than losing.

1 minute ago, Jethead said:

JDs contingency plan is to finish building out the roster and then, if necessary, do a Goff for Stafford type flip. I'm ok with that.

Zach would have to materially improve to have any trade value whatsoever. 

There isn't always a Carolina willing to give you gold for your own poop.

And no, "we'll just get another guy in a few years" isn't contingency planning, thats long-range planning.  Not the same.

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Nice move for the Panthers. Baker had to agree to a 3.5 million dollar pay cut and the Panthers only paid a conditional 5th and less than 5 million salary. Guess Seattle didn't want any part of Baker even at a bargain basement cost.

Baker stinks, he had one good season with an absolutely stacked team that produced one playoff win.

Only time will tell but Darnold should have no problem beating out Baker. The sad thing is that both of these guys will be on some teams roster - as a backup - for the next 5 years due to the lack of guys who can play QB in the NFL.

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2 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

It's exceedingly rare to see an Arizona situation where they dump a QB who didn't make enough progress. If Douglas / Saleh dumped Zac for Baker they put themselves on a shorter leash and have to win this season compared to another 'season of growth' for Zac. 

Exactly how much time does the 2nd overall get? Three, four year? If they don't bite as puppies, they don't bite as dogs. 

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48 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

I take Joe Douglas not trading for a cheap Mayfield as a sign that he and the coaches believe in Zac.   If there was concern that he wasn’t progressing and they thought Mayfield was a clear upgrade, they’d definitely trade to fill the only major hole.   Imagine trading for a QB and making the playoffs to cap this off season?   Douglas and Saleh have contracts but only so much time to make it happen.   This tells me that they think Zac will become the QB they envisioned when they drafted him and there is no reason to hedge bets with a guy whose only goal would be to start.

The Baker thing, okay, fine. But the bigger gamble JD is taking is not at least hedging with a Trubisky/Minshew or even Nick Foles (ugh) type.

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2 minutes ago, jgb said:

The Baker thing, okay, fine. But the bigger gamble JD is taking is not at least hedging with a Trubisky/Minshew or even Nick Foles (ugh) type.

I think plenty of people see Flacco that way. 

The interesting thing to me is how little these guys seem to value running ability.  With all the RPO stuff, Garoppolo, Flacco and Mike White are probably three of the least mobile guys around.   Lance and Wilson who cost a ton of draft capital can move.  Usually, you like running ability in your backups since they are more expendable, but they don't seem to head that direction.

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Just now, #27TheDominator said:

I think plenty of people see Flacco that way. 

The interesting thing to me is how little these guys seem to value running ability.  With all the RPO stuff, Garoppolo, Flacco and Mike White are probably three of the least mobile guys around.   Lance and Wilson who cost a ton of draft capital can move.  Usually, you like running ability in your backups since they are more expendable, but they don't seem to head that direction.

Trubisky is very underrated as a runner and Minshew as a scrambler. This is why I gave an (ugh) to Nick Foles. He has the escapability of life insurance policy exclusion. 

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34 minutes ago, Jethead said:

Cure can't be worse than the disease. Baker is toxic.

JDs contingency plan is to finish building out the roster and then, if necessary, do a Goff for Stafford type flip. I'm ok with that.

Really? So toxic that he produced more and played better than any Jet QB during his time with the Browns? This was a no brainer, do you realize if Baker was the starting for the Jets this year and reproduced his worst year as a starter statistically, that the Jets would pretty much be a lock for the playoffs?  

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7 minutes ago, jgb said:

The Baker thing, okay, fine. But the bigger gamble JD is taking is not at least hedging with a Trubisky/Minshew or even Nick Foles (ugh) type.

Those guys haven’t done much in the league, and that’s why they were available.   Flacco has won a Super Bowl and been to the playoffs many times.   IMO he is a much better back up for a young QB .   If Wilson gets hurt, there isn’t any objective evidence that any of the QBs you named would be better choices to “save the season”.  Truth is we are unlikely to make the playoffs and that gets less likely if Wilson is injured, regardless of which back up replaces him.

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42 minutes ago, Jethead said:

Cure can't be worse than the disease. Baker is toxic.

JDs contingency plan is to finish building out the roster and then, if necessary, do a Goff for Stafford type flip. I'm ok with that.

Ok, what has he done that's toxic? I'm really hoping you'll say he was disloyal to a team that brought in a probable rapist to replace him.

4 minutes ago, Dreams said:

Really? So toxic that he produced more and played better than any Jet QB during his time with the Browns? This was a no brainer, do you realize if Baker was the starting for the Jets this year and reproduced his worst year as a starter statistically, that the Jets would pretty much be a lock for the playoffs?  

If we applied half the scrutiny to our own QBs as to other teams' QBs, we wouldn't still have people defending Sam Darnold.

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7 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

Those guys haven’t done much in the league, and that’s why they were available.   Flacco has won a Super Bowl and been to the playoffs many times.   IMO he is a much better back up for a young QB .   If Wilson gets hurt, there isn’t any objective evidence that any of the QBs you named would be better choices to “save the season”.  Truth is we are unlikely to make the playoffs and that gets less likely if Wilson is injured, regardless of which back up replaces him.

I want a backup QB with at least some theoretical upside remaining. Joe Flacco has the upside of an overturned stump. 

I'll take a 1% chance to catch lightening in a bottle over a 0% chance. I'd feel differently if we were a contender, then, yes, a stable steady hand as backup who won't lose games for you is what I would want.

Further, if Trubisky was good enough for the suddenly "best-run-team-in-the-NFL" Buffalo Bills, he damn sure is good enough for us.

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51 minutes ago, Warfish said:

That's great.  But it better happen then.  

If not, it's a massive failure of evaluation, judgement and contingency planning by Douglas and Saleh.

Smart people may "believe" a good thing will happen, but REALLY smart people still have contingency plans for if/when it doesn't.

And sorry, soothing the fragile ego and mind of a young QB by avoiding anything that resembles pressure or competition isn't, in my book, the way to make your team better overall.  

OIP.1bpSQYeM_c60nwCxHGq-DwHaEN?pid=ImgDe

There isn’t a scenario where trading any pick for a QB who you hope won’t be on the team more than one season and unless ZW bombs out won’t be.  
 

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16 minutes ago, Dreams said:

Really? So toxic that he produced more and played better than any Jet QB during his time with the Browns? This was a no brainer, do you realize if Baker was the starting for the Jets this year and reproduced his worst year as a starter statistically, that the Jets would pretty much be a lock for the playoffs?  

 

lock for the playoffs???

baker's record as a QB is 6-7, 6-10, 11-5, 6-8

he led his team to the playoffs 1 out of 4 years, yet now he's suddenly a lock to make the playoffs on a team that just went 4-13??? ?

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Right, but it still takes time to fix the mistakes of the prior regime.  SEE:  Douglas, Joe.

It's amazing how hitting on a FQB turns an entire organization's reputation around overnight. 

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18 minutes ago, jgb said:

I want a backup QB with at least some theoretical upside remaining. Joe Flacco has the upside of an overturned stump. 

I'll take a 1% chance to catch lightening in a bottle over a 0% chance. I'd feel differently if we were a contender, then, yes, a stable steady hand as backup who won't lose games for you is what I would want.

 

I’d say with Joe Flacco and Mike White, the Jets have your wants covered.

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1 minute ago, Bowles Movement said:

I’d say with Joe Flacco and Mike White, the Jets have your wants covered.

If I were one who believed in Mike White, sure.

I don't.

Trub and Minshew have resembled NFL quarterbacks over material time spans.

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Just now, jgb said:

I'd take you as GM over Idzik and Macc. Jury still on JD!

 

Thanks, but I was referring to current Bills GM Brandon Beane (UNCW '98).  Kind of ironic that he got his undergraduate degree at a school that doesn't have a football program but still ended up an NFL GM!

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