DonCorleone Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 17 hours ago, IndianaJet said: Oofff.... They need to start making phone calls and hopefully land Ryan Leaf to join the Dream (Nightmares) team 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jetsfan80 Posted July 7, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 7, 2022 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 15 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said: Yes, the same Bills organization that once hired Rex Ryan as their HC following 3 consecutive losing seasons in NY leading to his ousting. A total paragon of continuity and success prior to Allen's arrival. The GM who hired McDermott and drafted Allen had nothing to do with Rex, fired him I believe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playtowinthegame Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 6 hours ago, Green Ghost said: I live in SC, and thanks to this trade, I now get to watch my favorite NFL player quarterback a team I can watch every week. In 12 years living down here, I don’t think I’ve watched 5 Panthers games. This season that’s going to change! Soon as I heard about the Baker to Carolina trade I thought about you. Nothing could be finer than to be in Carolina in the morning. Am I right?! Congratulations on your new backup team. ? 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munchmemory Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 6 hours ago, Green Ghost said: I live in SC, and thanks to this trade, I now get to watch my favorite NFL player quarterback a team I can watch every week. In 12 years living down here, I don’t think I’ve watched 5 Panthers games. This season that’s going to change! Mazel tov. ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jethead Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 15 hours ago, Bungaman said: Quite true. Too much is linked to the QB. Yet, the QB is vital. But having a competent team, front office and coaching staff around the QB often determines success or mediocrity. A great QB might be able to have some success, but a middle of the road guy probably ends up broadcasting college games. I think the Bills have done a pretty good job with the rest of their roster. JDs remake of the Jets roster is the really big story in NY. Need the QB to reach the ultimate goal but without the team QB alone can't do it. Jets should be 100% committed to Zach until they're not. Way too soon for that discussion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreams Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 11 hours ago, Normstansfield said: Of what? A mediocre qb? You do realize that mediocre QB, is light years ahead of Zach Wilson? 1 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowles Movement Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 I take Joe Douglas not trading for a cheap Mayfield as a sign that he and the coaches believe in Zac. If there was concern that he wasn’t progressing and they thought Mayfield was a clear upgrade, they’d definitely trade to fill the only major hole. Imagine trading for a QB and making the playoffs to cap this off season? Douglas and Saleh have contracts but only so much time to make it happen. This tells me that they think Zac will become the QB they envisioned when they drafted him and there is no reason to hedge bets with a guy whose only goal would be to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Warfish Posted July 7, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 7, 2022 13 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said: I take Joe Douglas not trading for a cheap Mayfield as a sign that he and the coaches believe in Zac. If there was concern that he wasn’t progressing and they thought Mayfield was a clear upgrade, they’d definitely trade to fill the only major hole. Imagine trading for a QB and making the playoffs to cap this off season? Douglas and Saleh have contracts but only so much time to make it happen. This tells me that they think Zac will become the QB they envisioned when they drafted him and there is no reason to hedge bets with a guy whose only goal would be to start. That's great. But it better happen then. If not, it's a massive failure of evaluation, judgement and contingency planning by Douglas and Saleh. Smart people may "believe" a good thing will happen, but REALLY smart people still have contingency plans for if/when it doesn't. And sorry, soothing the fragile ego and mind of a young QB by avoiding anything that resembles pressure or competition isn't, in my book, the way to make your team better overall. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreams Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 12 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said: I take Joe Douglas not trading for a cheap Mayfield as a sign that he and the coaches believe in Zac. If there was concern that he wasn’t progressing and they thought Mayfield was a clear upgrade, they’d definitely trade to fill the only major hole. Imagine trading for a QB and making the playoffs to cap this off season? Douglas and Saleh have contracts but only so much time to make it happen. This tells me that they think Zac will become the QB they envisioned when they drafted him and there is no reason to hedge bets with a guy whose only goal would be to start. I get the exact opposite impression from this non move. Regardless of what they think Zac will or will not become, the GM's job is to make the team better, this would be a better team with Baker even if you're hopes and dreams of Zac come true. I think they are afraid that getting Baker would hurt Zac's confidence and that hurts the team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jethead Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 7 minutes ago, Warfish said: That's great. But it better happen then. If not, it's a massive failure of evaluation, judgement and contingency planning by Douglas and Saleh. Smart people may "believe" a good thing will happen, but REALLY smart people still have contingency plans for if/when it doesn't. And sorry, soothing the fragile ego and mind of a young QB by avoiding anything that resembles pressure or competition isn't, in my book, the way to make your team better overall. Cure can't be worse than the disease. Baker is toxic. JDs contingency plan is to finish building out the roster and then, if necessary, do a Goff for Stafford type flip. I'm ok with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy2020 Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 20 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said: I take Joe Douglas not trading for a cheap Mayfield as a sign that he and the coaches believe in Zac. If there was concern that he wasn’t progressing and they thought Mayfield was a clear upgrade, they’d definitely trade to fill the only major hole. Imagine trading for a QB and making the playoffs to cap this off season? Douglas and Saleh have contracts but only so much time to make it happen. This tells me that they think Zac will become the QB they envisioned when they drafted him and there is no reason to hedge bets with a guy whose only goal would be to start. It's exceedingly rare to see an Arizona situation where they dump a QB who didn't make enough progress. If Douglas / Saleh dumped Zac for Baker they put themselves on a shorter leash and have to win this season compared to another 'season of growth' for Zac. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 1 minute ago, Jethead said: Cure can't be worse than the disease. Baker is toxic. Losing is toxic. There is no worse disease than losing. 1 minute ago, Jethead said: JDs contingency plan is to finish building out the roster and then, if necessary, do a Goff for Stafford type flip. I'm ok with that. Zach would have to materially improve to have any trade value whatsoever. There isn't always a Carolina willing to give you gold for your own poop. And no, "we'll just get another guy in a few years" isn't contingency planning, thats long-range planning. Not the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Slick Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Nice move for the Panthers. Baker had to agree to a 3.5 million dollar pay cut and the Panthers only paid a conditional 5th and less than 5 million salary. Guess Seattle didn't want any part of Baker even at a bargain basement cost. Baker stinks, he had one good season with an absolutely stacked team that produced one playoff win. Only time will tell but Darnold should have no problem beating out Baker. The sad thing is that both of these guys will be on some teams roster - as a backup - for the next 5 years due to the lack of guys who can play QB in the NFL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreams Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said: It's exceedingly rare to see an Arizona situation where they dump a QB who didn't make enough progress. If Douglas / Saleh dumped Zac for Baker they put themselves on a shorter leash and have to win this season compared to another 'season of growth' for Zac. Exactly how much time does the 2nd overall get? Three, four year? If they don't bite as puppies, they don't bite as dogs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
More Cowbell Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said: Do the Carolina Panthers have team flags? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 48 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said: I take Joe Douglas not trading for a cheap Mayfield as a sign that he and the coaches believe in Zac. If there was concern that he wasn’t progressing and they thought Mayfield was a clear upgrade, they’d definitely trade to fill the only major hole. Imagine trading for a QB and making the playoffs to cap this off season? Douglas and Saleh have contracts but only so much time to make it happen. This tells me that they think Zac will become the QB they envisioned when they drafted him and there is no reason to hedge bets with a guy whose only goal would be to start. The Baker thing, okay, fine. But the bigger gamble JD is taking is not at least hedging with a Trubisky/Minshew or even Nick Foles (ugh) type. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, jgb said: The Baker thing, okay, fine. But the bigger gamble JD is taking is not at least hedging with a Trubisky/Minshew or even Nick Foles (ugh) type. I think plenty of people see Flacco that way. The interesting thing to me is how little these guys seem to value running ability. With all the RPO stuff, Garoppolo, Flacco and Mike White are probably three of the least mobile guys around. Lance and Wilson who cost a ton of draft capital can move. Usually, you like running ability in your backups since they are more expendable, but they don't seem to head that direction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Just now, #27TheDominator said: I think plenty of people see Flacco that way. The interesting thing to me is how little these guys seem to value running ability. With all the RPO stuff, Garoppolo, Flacco and Mike White are probably three of the least mobile guys around. Lance and Wilson who cost a ton of draft capital can move. Usually, you like running ability in your backups since they are more expendable, but they don't seem to head that direction. Trubisky is very underrated as a runner and Minshew as a scrambler. This is why I gave an (ugh) to Nick Foles. He has the escapability of life insurance policy exclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreams Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 34 minutes ago, Jethead said: Cure can't be worse than the disease. Baker is toxic. JDs contingency plan is to finish building out the roster and then, if necessary, do a Goff for Stafford type flip. I'm ok with that. Really? So toxic that he produced more and played better than any Jet QB during his time with the Browns? This was a no brainer, do you realize if Baker was the starting for the Jets this year and reproduced his worst year as a starter statistically, that the Jets would pretty much be a lock for the playoffs? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowles Movement Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 7 minutes ago, jgb said: The Baker thing, okay, fine. But the bigger gamble JD is taking is not at least hedging with a Trubisky/Minshew or even Nick Foles (ugh) type. Those guys haven’t done much in the league, and that’s why they were available. Flacco has won a Super Bowl and been to the playoffs many times. IMO he is a much better back up for a young QB . If Wilson gets hurt, there isn’t any objective evidence that any of the QBs you named would be better choices to “save the season”. Truth is we are unlikely to make the playoffs and that gets less likely if Wilson is injured, regardless of which back up replaces him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 42 minutes ago, Jethead said: Cure can't be worse than the disease. Baker is toxic. JDs contingency plan is to finish building out the roster and then, if necessary, do a Goff for Stafford type flip. I'm ok with that. Ok, what has he done that's toxic? I'm really hoping you'll say he was disloyal to a team that brought in a probable rapist to replace him. 4 minutes ago, Dreams said: Really? So toxic that he produced more and played better than any Jet QB during his time with the Browns? This was a no brainer, do you realize if Baker was the starting for the Jets this year and reproduced his worst year as a starter statistically, that the Jets would pretty much be a lock for the playoffs? If we applied half the scrutiny to our own QBs as to other teams' QBs, we wouldn't still have people defending Sam Darnold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 7 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said: Those guys haven’t done much in the league, and that’s why they were available. Flacco has won a Super Bowl and been to the playoffs many times. IMO he is a much better back up for a young QB . If Wilson gets hurt, there isn’t any objective evidence that any of the QBs you named would be better choices to “save the season”. Truth is we are unlikely to make the playoffs and that gets less likely if Wilson is injured, regardless of which back up replaces him. I want a backup QB with at least some theoretical upside remaining. Joe Flacco has the upside of an overturned stump. I'll take a 1% chance to catch lightening in a bottle over a 0% chance. I'd feel differently if we were a contender, then, yes, a stable steady hand as backup who won't lose games for you is what I would want. Further, if Trubisky was good enough for the suddenly "best-run-team-in-the-NFL" Buffalo Bills, he damn sure is good enough for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 51 minutes ago, Warfish said: That's great. But it better happen then. If not, it's a massive failure of evaluation, judgement and contingency planning by Douglas and Saleh. Smart people may "believe" a good thing will happen, but REALLY smart people still have contingency plans for if/when it doesn't. And sorry, soothing the fragile ego and mind of a young QB by avoiding anything that resembles pressure or competition isn't, in my book, the way to make your team better overall. There isn’t a scenario where trading any pick for a QB who you hope won’t be on the team more than one season and unless ZW bombs out won’t be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: There isn’t a scenario where trading any pick for a QB who you hope won’t be on the team more than one season and unless ZW bombs out won’t be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 1 hour ago, jgb said: With any 2nd year QB. Chances are he’s not busting out and being tossed aside after 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Just now, Jet Nut said: With any 2nd year QB. Chances are he’s not binning out and being tossed aside after 2022 No, not any. Just the ones who look terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetblue95 Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 16 minutes ago, Dreams said: Really? So toxic that he produced more and played better than any Jet QB during his time with the Browns? This was a no brainer, do you realize if Baker was the starting for the Jets this year and reproduced his worst year as a starter statistically, that the Jets would pretty much be a lock for the playoffs? lock for the playoffs??? baker's record as a QB is 6-7, 6-10, 11-5, 6-8 he led his team to the playoffs 1 out of 4 years, yet now he's suddenly a lock to make the playoffs on a team that just went 4-13??? ? 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 2 hours ago, Jet Nut said: The GM who hired McDermott and drafted Allen had nothing to do with Rex, fired him I believe Right, but it still takes time to fix the mistakes of the prior regime. SEE: Douglas, Joe. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Just now, Jetsfan80 said: Right, but it still takes time to fix the mistakes of the prior regime. SEE: Douglas, Joe. It's amazing how hitting on a FQB turns an entire organization's reputation around overnight. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowles Movement Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 18 minutes ago, jgb said: I want a backup QB with at least some theoretical upside remaining. Joe Flacco has the upside of an overturned stump. I'll take a 1% chance to catch lightening in a bottle over a 0% chance. I'd feel differently if we were a contender, then, yes, a stable steady hand as backup who won't lose games for you is what I would want. I’d say with Joe Flacco and Mike White, the Jets have your wants covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 1 minute ago, Bowles Movement said: I’d say with Joe Flacco and Mike White, the Jets have your wants covered. If I were one who believed in Mike White, sure. I don't. Trub and Minshew have resembled NFL quarterbacks over material time spans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 9 minutes ago, jgb said: It's amazing how hitting on a FQB turns an entire organization's reputation around overnight. It also helps putting a UNCW grad in charge of things. ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: It also helps putting a UNCW grad in charge of things. ? I'd take you as GM over Idzik and Macc. Jury still out on JD! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Just now, jgb said: I'd take you as GM over Idzik and Macc. Jury still on JD! Thanks, but I was referring to current Bills GM Brandon Beane (UNCW '98). Kind of ironic that he got his undergraduate degree at a school that doesn't have a football program but still ended up an NFL GM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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