Pats trade N’Keal Harry

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, jgb said:

Both Mac Jones’ top receivers last year were UDFAs. He made the Pro Bowl as an alternate.

Meanwhile, the 2021 Jets featured a first round draft pick and a second round pick, and the narrative is that it would’ve been impossible for our QB to succeed because he was, like, the least-supported rookie QB of all time.

Meanwhile that 1st round pick played in all of 6 underwhelming games with his starting QB and a second who played in all of 6 games while Maccs 2nd didn’t start a single game

None of this changes the fact that supporting cast is import to a QB or that ZW had ridiculously little to count on

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

The other difference is he has 6 less rings than the Pats GM but I guess I’m just quibbling.

That’s true and why he still has a job.   Because of his success as a coach

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Meanwhile that 1st round pick played in all of 6 underwhelming games with his starting QB and a second who played in all of 6 games.  

None of this changes the fact that supporting cast is import to a QB or that ZW had ridiculously little to count on

Exactly. Jets QB got 12 player-games with WR starters of 1st/2nd round talent more than Jones. And when they got hurt he still had better than 2 UDFAs.

Also Corey Davis was not objectively underwhelming. He just didn’t live up to overheated expectations. He actually outperformed mine and I was pleased with his performance. Let’s also not forget he was on the receiving end of passes from the 2021 worst QB in the NFL. He came alive in TEN after the change from Mariota to Tannehill. It’s fair he’s not a rare Mega Tron that can lift up a QB, but rather he is dependent on competent QB play (like the 80% of receivers between the elite and the terrible).

[jgb]

25 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

That’s true and why he still has a job.   Because of his success as a coach

How can you win without players? Yeah Bill’s had plenty of whiffs but so did Ozzie Newsome — his search for a QB was like a Homerian Odyssey before he drafted Flacco. And if the response is “yeah but Bill lucked into Brady.” Look at it this way, Bill won a million dollars on his first pull of the penny slots. He could whiff from here on out and he’s still way ahead of the house. You can’t just write off the biggest draft hit of all time that produced 6 rings and a 20 year stranglehold on the AFC in order to say he stinks at drafting. 
 

But where Bill has really shined is in FA, bringing in misfit toys and squeezing a little bit of play out of them. He also dumps talent frequently near value peak. He’s a good GM. Ruthless but good.
 

 

[CSNY]

9 minutes ago, jgb said:

Exactly. Zach got 12 player-games with WR starters of 1st/2nd round talent more than Jones.

Also Corey Davis was not objectively underwhelming. He just didn’t live up to overheated expectations. He actually outperformed mine and I was pleased with his performance. Let’s also not forget he was on the receiving end of passes from the 2021 worst QB in the NFL.

Let’s look at this objectively and tell the entire story

How many games did Davis/Moore miss when Zach was QB? Add Mims who is an absolute enigma as to why he can’t get open 

Also Wide Receivers even if they are not first or second draft picks can get open if the opposing defense does not have to be concerned about covering tight ends which the Pats had two and the Jets realistically had none that made defensive coordinators game plan against which every poster on this site states that the TE position is a QB’s best friend especially a young one which will make a QB look infinitely better 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, CSNY said:

Let’s look at this objectively and tell the entire story

How many games did Davis/Moore miss when Zach was QB? Add Mims who is an absolute enigma as to why he can’t get open 

Also Wide Receivers even if they are not first or second draft picks can get open if the opposing defense does not have to be concerned about covering tight ends which the Pats had two and the Jets realistically had none that made defensive coordinators game plan against which every poster on this site states that the TE position is a QB’s best friend especially a young one which will make a QB look infinitely better 

Pats WRs had last-quartile separation per route. Jets were top half. Some of this is undoubtedly because opposing defenses — with good reason — simply did not respect the pass whatsoever.

Source: Cynthia Frelund

[CSNY]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

Pats WRs had last-quartile separation per route. Jets were top half.

Source: Cynthia Frelund

Wasn’t it stated somewhere that Jets led the league in dropped passes Numbers /Analytics don’t tell entire story. 

[jgb]

14 minutes ago, CSNY said:

Wasn’t it stated somewhere that Jets led the league in dropped passes Numbers /Analytics don’t tell entire story. 

They didn’t lead the league (I think Chargers led the league, actually!) but even giving the QB credit for those drops down to the league mean he would still be the worst QB in the league. By the way Jets had like 5 drops above league average. It doesn’t move the needle. Someone did that analysis. Maybe it was bit, or war.

[Jet Nut]

38 minutes ago, jgb said:

Exactly. Jets QB got 12 player-games with WR starters of 1st/2nd round talent more than Jones. And when they got hurt he still had better than 2 UDFAs.

Also Corey Davis was not objectively underwhelming. He just didn’t live up to overheated expectations. He actually outperformed mine and I was pleased with his performance. Let’s also not forget he was on the receiving end of passes from the 2021 worst QB in the NFL. He came alive in TEN after the change from Mariota to Tannehill. It’s fair he’s not a rare Mega Tron that can lift up a QB, but rather he is dependent on competent QB play (like 80% of receivers between the elite and the terrible).

Where players were drafted isn’t the sole means of determining who had better supporting cast.  I doubt anyone thinks ZW and Jones played with similar levels of support.  There’s more to it than where WRs were drafted like OL, TE, D, starting field position 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Where players were drafted isn’t the sole means of determining who had better supporting cast.  I doubt anyone thinks ZW and Jones played with similar levels of support.  There’s more to it than where WRs were drafted like OL, TE, D, starting field position 

Will you go on record now — is the Jets cast terrible, average or good for 2022?

[slats]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

where is that narrative? I haven't seen it.

Have you seen the troll, though? Pretty busy spamming this thread. 

[CSNY]

11 minutes ago, jgb said:

They didn’t lead the league (I think Chargers led the league, actually!) but even giving the QB credit for those drops down to the league mean he would still be the worst QB in the league. Someone did that analysis. Maybe it was bit, or war.

If those passes were completed instead of drops the entire complexion of games might have changed. That’s why I don’t put much stock in all these statistics and or analytics. 
This is not to say that Zach had anywhere near a good season but if you put Wilson on Pats I would care to bet he would have had a similar or better season than Jones 

As I keep saying let’s give this team more than one year to determine if Saleh/Zach are not of NFL caliber 

[Jet Nut]

34 minutes ago, jgb said:

How can you win without players? Yeah Bill’s had plenty of whiffs but so did Ozzie Newsome — his search for a QB was like a Homerian Odyssey before he drafted Flacco. And if the response is “yeah but Bill lucked into Brady.” Look at it this way, Bill won a million dollars on his first pull of the penny slots. He could whiff from here on out and he’s still way ahead of the house. You can’t just write off the biggest draft hit of all time that produced 6 rings and a 20 year stranglehold on the AFC in order to say he stinks at drafting. 
 

But where Bill has really shined is in FA, bringing in misfit toys and squeezing a little bit of play out of them. He also dumps talent frequently near value peak. He’s a good GM. Ruthless but good.
 

 

Brady was drafted by Grier.  But I agree his been pretty good over the years, between his drafts and FA his gotten enough Belichick like players who fit into what Belichick the HC needs to win and they have.  If he was the GM for another HC those player probably do win way they do with him as HC.

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, CSNY said:

I don’t put much stock in all these statistics and or analytics.  

That sums it up. Neither one will change each other’s minds on this. Have a nice day  

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

Will you go on record now — is the Jets cast terrible, average or good for 2022?

This upcoming season?  The nets have put together a much better cast.  Not even remotely similar to 2021.  Especially given injuries to last seasons roster

[CSNY]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

Will you go on record now — is the Jets cast terrible, average or good for 2022?

Just the addition of the tight ends roster is better than last year. We will all find out in a few short months if team is terrible, average or good. 
Cautiously optimistic for the upcoming season 

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, CSNY said:

Just the addition of the tight ends roster is better than last year. We will all find out in a few short months if team is terrible, average or good. 
Cautiously optimistic for the upcoming season 

I am perhaps the rare case of thinking the cast last year wasn’t bad at all but was dragged down by a specific factor — no reason to get into all the reasons I think this as I have mentioned it ad naseum (just look for my most-downvoted posts if you are interested!). This same factor is why I am not optimistic for our offense in 2022.

I suspect that many will base their assessment on the cast on how the QB performs. Not saying you specifically but let’s face it, many fans will always excuse poor QB play. But if he does well, then of course it will be all about his personal improvement. 

Hopefully, the offense is vastly improved and my hypothesis is not tested.

[CSNY]

6 minutes ago, jgb said:

That sums it up. Neither one will change each other’s minds on this. Have a nice day  

You too ?

[jgb]

36 minutes ago, slats said:

Have you seen the troll, though? Pretty busy spamming this thread. 

[slats]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

This reply would seem to be a clear indication that your alleged narrative does not, in fact, exist. If it had, I’m sure you would’ve managed to find a quote. 
 
But by all means, drop another hook. It’s what you do here. 
 
Also no need to drop pictures of people crying, you cry in your signature with every post, lol. 

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, slats said:

This reply would seem to be a clear indication that your alleged narrative does not, in fact, exist. If it had, I’m sure you would’ve managed to find a quote. 

I graduated decades ago and don’t take homework assignments on the Internet. Nor is there any great need to “prove” a truism.

4 minutes ago, slats said:

But by all means, drop another hook. It’s what you do here. 
 
Also no need to drop pictures of people crying, you cry in your signature with every post, lol. 

Let’s go halfsies on a box of tissues and a pint of Rocky Road.

[slats]

Just now, jgb said:

I graduated decades ago and don’t take homework assignments on the Internet. Nor is there any great need to “prove” a truism.

There should be when it’s not true. But I guess when trying to establish a false narrative, that would kinda gum up the works. 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, slats said:

There should be when it’s not true. But I guess when trying to establish a false narrative, that would kinda gum up the works. 

If you don’t honestly believe a prevailing narrative is that the QB was doomed by his supporting cast last year, well, I wish what you have south of the border was legal here.

[slats]

Just now, jgb said:

If you don’t honestly believe the narrative is that the QB was doomed by his supporting cast last year, well, I wish what you have south of the border was legal here.

I honestly believe that that has been the case in the past with other QBs, but really did not exist last year with Zach. The general consensus last year was that JD had done all he could on the offense. Like I said, you’d have a hard time proving something that is false. One or two people does not create a narrative. Not really as well as one person spamming multiple threads with the same thing over and over again, anyway. 

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, slats said:

I honestly believe that that has been the case in the past with other QBs, but really did not exist last year with Zach. The general consensus last year was that JD had done all he could on the offense. Like I said, you’d have a hard time proving something that is false. One or two people does not create a narrative. Not really as well as one person spamming multiple threads with the same thing over and over again, anyway. 

Wrong again been having great, productive discussions supported by data or reasoning. Since you asked for a quote, here’s one:

“ I was raised to say nothing if I have nothing nice to say.” 
 

Exception:

1. You had a political disagreement with someone in 2004 and it you just can’t let it go.

I’ve tried to bury the hatchet with you a dozen times over the years. Let’s make today that new beginning.

[slats]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

Wrong again been having great, productive discussions supported by data or reasoning. Since you asked for a quote, here’s one:

“ I was raised to say nothing if I have nothing nice to say.” 
 

Exception:

1. You had a political disagreement with someone in 2004 and it you just can’t let it go.

I’ve tried to bury the hatchet with you a dozen times over the years. Let’s make today that new beginning.

Quite the olive branch. If you really wanted to offer one, you’d stop spamming multiple threads with the same crap over and over, dropping hooks and getting into confrontations on a daily basis. That’s the only problem I have with you, you make this board less enjoyable for a lot of people who just want to root for the team. 
 
I don’t have a particularly rosy outlook, either, it’s just a matter of not regurgitating so aggressively. 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

Quite the olive branch. If you really wanted to offer one, you’d stop spamming multiple threads with the same crap over and over, dropping hooks and getting into confrontations on a daily basis. That’s the only problem I have with you, you make this board less enjoyable for a lot of people who just want to root for the team. 
 
I don’t have a particularly rosy outlook, either, it’s just a matter of not regurgitating so aggressively. 

I’ll take that as a “no” to make peace. Not really disproving the “victimhood narrative” you hate so much by chasing me around the forum.

Look, my offer to reconcile stands. In the meantime, I have a proposal. If I’m the menace you suggest, ban me and string me up in the gallows. Otherwise, if my conduct doesn’t rise to that level of horrendousness, back off  

[jeremy2020]

8 hours ago, jgb said:

Parker has a 4.45 40. That’s the main reason he was bought in. Pats sorely lacked speed on the outside and needed someone would could threaten the back of the defense. I expect the first Patriots play of the season to be a deep bomb to Parker as Belichick tries to put the league on notice that Jones can and will throw deep in 2022. Whether Parker remains healthy, who knows. It’s true he gets dinged a lot.

Awfully bold to assume to Parker will make it through camp. ?

We know Jones can throw deep. Did you see that bomb he threw on the 1st drive of the playoffs? ?

I jest, but there was a really good video (and I should see if I can find it again) that explained "Arm Strength" talking about QBs in the AFC East and how it doesn't mean you "can't throw deep", but that it's about velocity, travel time, etc. They broke down that int from Jones and how his (lack of) arm strength allowed it to even happen on what should have been a surefire touchdown and showed a very similar throw from Allen. The arc and trajectory was very different resulting in cutting off about 1/3rd of travel time for the ball. 

I think Jones could carve out a career for himself, but I'm not sure receiver speed is the limiting factor in unlocking the deep passes for them.  

As an aside, the video purported that Allen is in a league of his own in the AFC East for arm strength followed by Wilson with Tua/Jones bringing up the rear. 

[Barry McCockinner]

2 hours ago, slats said:

Have you seen the troll, though? Pretty busy spamming this thread. 

Hard to fault any Jets fan for being salty about the product we've been watching.

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

Awfully bold to assume to Parker will make it through camp. ?

We know Jones can throw deep. Did you see that bomb he threw on the 1st drive of the playoffs? ?

I jest, but there was a really good video (and I should see if I can find it again) that explained "Arm Strength" talking about QBs in the AFC East and how it doesn't mean you "can't throw deep", but that it's about velocity, travel time, etc. They broke down that int from Jones and how his (lack of) arm strength allowed it to even happen on what should have been a surefire touchdown and showed a very similar throw from Allen. The arc and trajectory was very different resulting in cutting off about 1/3rd of travel time for the ball. 

I think Jones could carve out a career for himself, but I'm not sure receiver speed is the limiting factor in unlocking the deep passes for them.  

As an aside, the video purported that Allen is in a league of his own in the AFC East for arm strength followed by Wilson with Tua/Jones bringing up the rear. 

I wonder how many Bectons back-to-belly Allen could throw a football through.

[jgb]

25 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Hard to fault any Jets fan for being salty about the product we've been watching.

When there is something to cheer, I’ll be there with face paint on.

[slats]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

I’ll take that as a “no” to make peace. Not really disproving the “victimhood narrative” you hate so much by chasing me around the forum.

Look, my offer to reconcile stands. In the meantime, I have a proposal. If I’m the menace you suggest, ban me and string me up in the gallows. Otherwise, if my conduct doesn’t rise to that level of horrendousness, back off  

Chase you around? There’s not a thread on the board you’re not taking a dump in. If you want me to back off, all you need to do it back off. That’s all I asked, and obviously you did the opposite. 
 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, slats said:

Chase you around? There’s not a thread on the board you’re not taking a dump in. If you want me to back off, all you need to do it back off. That’s all I asked, and obviously you did the opposite. 
 

Yes I post a lot on the train. So now that’s a crime? All my posts are unique no spam here. Although a lot of spam does seem to follow most of them from a mod repeating the same old chestnuts.

REPEAT AGAIN: olive branch extended now eleventy billion times in 15 years. Come on, man.

[Jetsfan80]

8 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

They exchanged in 20 N'Keals for a dollar. 

[CSNY]

8 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

They exchanged in 20 N'Keals for a dollar. 

Geez that was bad??