Back Up QB

[Warfish]

7 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

If Mike White was anything like Pennington a team would have scooped him up for 5th round pick this off-season.

Why?  Most teams already have their own versions of "Mike White" their Coaches like and want to develop.  No need to pay picks to get ours.

I'm not arguing that White is some stud here, only that he's a better backup to actually play games than Flacco, a guy clearly in the end-stage, "mentor", check-cashing point in his career.  All Flacco does now is lose games respectably.  There is no chance he's going to win many if he's called on.

And if there is a better QB prospect out there, I'd happily dump White and grab that guy.  I have no loyalty to him per se.

What I care about is having at least one backup QB on the roster who still has a career ahead of him, not entirely behind him (like Flacco), and still wants to play, and isn't just cashing a check for his "mentoring" (like Flacco), and might actually be able to win a game if forced to play if Zach gets hurt again (unlike 2-11 since-leaving-Baltimore Joe Flacco).  I'm a big fan of having an actual developmental prospect at QB on the roster at all times, regardless of the #1.  But even more so when the #1 is as risky as the one we have right now.

Zach shouldn't need Flacco to hold his cock for him.  If I'm cutting a backup, it Flacco first.  If Zach can't stand on his own with an entire staff of coaches there to help him, to the point he also needs an entire roster spot spent to baby sit him, then maybe he isn't the Man.

[jgb]

35 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Yeah,  it's a great idea to bench your franchise qb for a journeyman who no one wanted this off-season for a 5th round pick.

Reductio ad absurdum. If you want a debate, you should go find someone who holds the position you disagree with.

[Warfish]

24 minutes ago, PorP said:

I'm sure dink / dunk with be a part of the game along with run.

I'm sure it will, but it was one of Zach's biggest weaknesses in 2021.

We have to hope he's made material strides in his short-game accuracy this year.

24 minutes ago, PorP said:

But you dont invest a bunch in sub 4.4 guys to blow the tops off D's just to throw 6 yarders all the time. 

Speed at WR isn't about throwing bombs.  Especially the kind of speed both Moore and Wilson possess.

24 minutes ago, PorP said:

Or current team is not as good as what Pennington had and still Pennington got us no where near a ring.... Sanchez got closer than Pennington.

They both made AFCCG's.  The equally as close.  Sanchez just made it twice.

But Sanchez was bodily carried by his roster to the playoffs both years.  Pennington was a reason we made the playoff in his AFCCG season.

Regardless, the point is accuracy and completion percentage is king.  It's where successful QB's start and failures die.

24 minutes ago, PorP said:

I feel like if Zach is a failure that doesn't make Mike the answer.

For a game or two, he's the answer I choose over Flacco.  

24 minutes ago, PorP said:

Who knows though. Maybe you're right?  We got to see tyreek with a slinger taking tops off. Guess we'll see how that works with Tua.

Maybe that will prove you right? 

Tua will be very interesting this season.  Even Dolphins fans themselves seem split on that one.

But no, Tua is a much better prospect than White, and it's a very different situation than ours.

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, jgb said:

I don’t see the difference. If Mike White is too accomplished to backup without causing a media controversy, maybe you want the job? Mike White was bargain-bin, barely clinging to the league. You can’t find a backup that threatens a starter less. So now that he made a little name for himself, uh oh, not a fit anymore! Bring in another dumpster find and hope he bombs if he has to go in so we avoid the media from speculatin’. I’m sorry but I say build the best roster you can. If our QB wants to stop media agitating for him to be benched — all he has to do is play out. If he doesn’t, why do we care about his confidence anyway?

What media controversy?  I haven’t heard a whisper that MW deserves any playing time.  He’s not a threat, no one would be, ZW is the starter until he proves he can’t play, not because a backup has one good game.   And I don’t think Zach or anyone cares that some a tweet has caused a firestorm of memes.  And a lot of laughs

[PorP]

11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I'm sure it will, but it was one of Zach's biggest weaknesses in 2021.

We have to hope he's made material strides in his short-game accuracy this year.

Speed at WR isn't about throwing bombs.  Especially the kind of speed both Moore and Wilson possess.

They both made AFCCG's.  The equally as close.  Sanchez just made it twice.

But Sanchez was bodily carried by his roster to the playoffs both years.  Pennington was a reason we made the playoff in his AFCCG season.

Regardless, the point is accuracy and completion percentage is king.  It's where successful QB's start and failures die.

For a game or two, he's the answer I choose over Flacco.  

Tua will be very interesting this season.  Even Dolphins fans themselves seem split on that one.

But no, Tua is a much better prospect than White, and it's a very different situation than ours.

Agreed on Zach. That's the one part of his game even as a rookie i find unacceptable. That crap better be fixed this year. 

You most certainly do want your speedsters talking the top off even if it's just deception, especially with the # we have,  someone is always going deep and it has to be defended due to Zach's big arm.  I'm not suggesting every ball is deep or no speed in the slot.

On Pennington. Pretty sure he never won a divisional game. Unless I'm out to lunch. 

And ya on Tua, I was being sincere,  I'm looking forward to comparing Tyreek against myhomey and tua.

[Larz]

1 hour ago, Dwight Englewood said:

White is the best qb on the roster.  

Based on……..

[jgb]

26 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

What media controversy?  I haven’t heard a whisper that MW deserves any playing time.  He’s not a threat, no one would be, ZW is the starter until he proves he can’t play, not because a backup has one good game.   And I don’t think Zach or anyone cares that some a tweet has caused a firestorm of memes.  And a lot of laughs

The discussion is all above, if you want to know the context for mentioning the media.

[GangGreened]

48 minutes ago, PorP said:

Agreed on Zach. That's the one part of his game even as a rookie i find unacceptable. That crap better be fixed this year. 

You most certainly do want your speedsters talking the top off even if it's just deception, especially with the # we have,  someone is always going deep and it has to be defended due to Zach's big arm.  I'm not suggesting every ball is deep or no speed in the slot.

On Pennington. Pretty sure he never won a divisional game. Unless I'm out to lunch. 

And ya on Tua, I was being sincere,  I'm looking forward to comparing Tyreek against myhomey and tua.

You are correct

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, GangGreened said:

You are correct

You're both right, I am 100% wrong.

The Division matchup vs. Pittsburgh in 2004, for some reason gets stuck in my head that it was an AFCCG.  Probably because Sanchez also lost to Pittsburgh, in one of his AFCCG appearances.

Jets in the Pennington Era lost in the Div. in 2002, in the Div. in 2004 and in the WC in 2006.

My bad. Mea culpa.

[PorP]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

You're both right, I am 100% wrong.

The Division matchup vs. Pittsburgh in 2004, for some reason gets stuck in my head that it was an AFCCG.

But it very clearly was not.  Jets in the Pennington Era lost in the Div. in 2002, in the Div. in 2004 and in the WC in 2006.

My bad.

No worries man.  We all wish it were afcc both years and maybe more. 

[Dwight Englewood]

3 hours ago, Larz said:

Based on……..

The play on the field? 
 

name me all the games Zach Wilson threw 3 or more touchdowns 

[section314]

I think it's safe to say that the #2 QB is not on the roster at this time.

[rangerous]

i don't see why there's any controversy about mike white at all. he did well in that cincy game but don't forget he had some good help from carter and the other players.  possibly the only game where the rest of the offense besides the qb was playing at a high level.  and that's exactly the situation he should be in.  if zack goes down and the rest of the offense is intact then he will have a good game.  pretty simple.  and if another team wanted him, i'm pretty sure douglas would trade him for the right price.

i look at this as being much like the obrien/ryan combination.  although ryan could take ten times the beating that white can and still play.

[Dwight Englewood]

5 hours ago, section314 said:

I think it's safe to say that the #2 QB is not on the roster at this time.

Zach will be qb2 by week 8 or 9

[SoFlaJets]

Mike White is the future franchise QB of the Jets, he is the most exciting QB we've had on our roster since Chad Pennington first took over the starting job from Vinny in 2002-I don't believe Zach Wilson can stay healthy he likes playing sandlot QB a little too much-I hope I'm wrong about Zach

[Hal N of Provo]

15 hours ago, jgb said:

If Mike White is a threat to your team’s cohesion, you do not have a FQB.

I mean the Jets sandbagged the QB room last year behind the starter to preserve his confidence or whatever with a guy with zero NFL snaps and another with a 1-8 record as a starter. And even those guys BOTH outperformed the starter. 

I guess we need to find backups who don’t even have any organized football experience this time.

A pick every 16.5 throws or whatever it was.  Watch the MW every throw videos and get back to us about his greatness.  

[Hal N of Provo]

2 hours ago, Dwight Englewood said:

Zach will be qb2 by week 8 or 9

I’ll take that bet

mods send every account of yours to the Gallows week 9-12 if they know it’s yours and you post and i don’t post those weeks if I’m wrong?  I doubt the mods like the babysitting lol.  

[jgb]

4 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

A pick every 16.5 throws or whatever it was.  Watch the MW every throw videos and get back to us about his greatness.  

There’s a lotta daylight between “greatness” and “better than the Jets starter.”

[jgb]

12 hours ago, section314 said:

I think it's safe to say that the #2 QB is not on the roster at this time.

Wish he wasn’t but JD seems in no mood to upgrade the QB room.

[jgb]

18 hours ago, Larz said:

Pretty sure they will get rid of the mentor back up next off season and try to find a young bull 

I have seen no indication that the Jets have any desire to fill QB2 with anything but an old glue nag or a lamb.

[jgb]

18 hours ago, GreenFish said:

Mike White will hopefully be a practice squad player and our long term backup. Pretty straight forward. 

Don’t see him lasting on PC in a QB-starved league.

[slats]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Don’t see him lasting on PC in a QB-starved league.

No one wanted him at his current price for a fifth round pick. Will someone pick him up on waivers at $2.5M? Probably not. Then it might come down to what the Jets are willing to pay him to stash him there. If they honor that non-guaranteed $2.5M, he’s probably not going anywhere. 

[jgb]

29 minutes ago, slats said:

No one wanted him at his current price for a fifth round pick. Will someone pick him up on waivers at $2.5M? Probably not. Then it might come down to what the Jets are willing to pay him to stash him there. If they honor that non-guaranteed $2.5M, he’s probably not going anywhere. 

A good point on his price tag. I wonder if there has ever been someone making so much as a PS player (maybe due to the relaxation of PS rules allowing vets to be placed there due to COVID it has happened). Would be an interesting tactic to both PS a player but protect him from being poached. I remember the cowboys did this with Rico Gathers years ago but IIRC that was like 300k. I wonder what the cap implications are for paying a PS so much.

[PepPep]

5 hours ago, Warfish said:

Safe to say, yes.

Safe to say, yes.

If you want him to 'mentor' Zach and hold a clipboard and lose any and every game he plays in, then yes, he's "perfect" for that role.

His role is "Third String QB".  Many teams have one.  

As a reminder, Zach was the worst starting QB in the NFL last year.  And he missed several games due to injury. 

He's about as risky as a #1 QB can get as of right now.

Thus, having some level of positional depth behind him is quite logical.  Again, most teams roster 3 QB's.

Even if Flacco gets the nod if Zach got hurt again, you still need a backup for Flacco, preferably one that knows and has experience in your system.  That is the role of third string QB.  Generally a developmental player who backs up the backup.

"The media" is not a reason for JD to do anything.  He'd be a poor GM if he caved to the pathetic NY sport media.

Why does any team have a Third String QB? 

Why are most of those third string QB's either mid-round picks or UDFA's? 

What makes the Jets different in this regard than any of the other teams with third string QB's?

And why do you care?  Is there some other use of that roster spot you think we're desperate to do instead?  Is there some other #3 QB available you want more, and if so, why?

 

This. 

I am pretty much on board with all of these answers. 

However, 

Flacco is NOT a very good backup. He's just not. I can't speak to his mentorship skills. But I'd rather have a number of other backup QBs if I had my pick from players around the league. I think if JD made that a priority he could have definitely upgraded the position to make sure if Zach got injured the position would remain close to the current level of competitiveness.

And White has no business being a backup. He would be one of the worst backups in the league if he was promoted to that position. So yeah, he is a third string developmental QB. Like so many other teams have on their rosters.   

[jgb]

7 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

I’ll take that bet

mods send every account of yours to the Gallows week 9-12 if they know it’s yours and you post and i don’t post those weeks if I’m wrong?  I doubt the mods like the babysitting lol.  

Yeah that’s a pro bet on our QB I can get behind. It’s his season absent injury. Even as a skeptic I agree with this approach. We need to know what he is and he needs to be on the field to evaluate his future.

[slats]

16 minutes ago, jgb said:

A good point on his price tag. I wonder if there has ever been someone making so much as a PS player (maybe due to the relaxation of PS rules allowing vets to be placed there due to COVID it has happened). Would be an interesting tactic to both PS a player but protect him from being poached. I remember the cowboys did this with Rico Gathers years ago but IIRC that was like 300k. I wonder what the cap implications are for paying a PS so much.

I was surprised to learn that the RFA tender isn’t guaranteed. If the Jets cut him and don’t give him that same money to sit on the practice squad, he’d probably be a very unhappy camper. Jets would've screwed him twice at that point; by keeping him out of free agency and then cutting his pay. It’s going to be interesting to see how it plays out. Mike White may have a lot of fans, but Joe Flacco appears to be the undisputed #2. 
 
I believe JD has already overpaid practice squad players, but I don’t believe he’s done it by nearly that amount. More like a couple hundred thousand. 

[Copernicus]

16 hours ago, section314 said:

I think it's safe to say that the #2 QB is not on the roster at this time.

Interesting.  Do you have anyone in mind?

[jgb]

47 minutes ago, slats said:

I was surprised to learn that the RFA tender isn’t guaranteed. If the Jets cut him and don’t give him that same money to sit on the practice squad, he’d probably be a very unhappy camper. Jets would've screwed him twice at that point; by keeping him out of free agency and then cutting his pay. It’s going to be interesting to see how it plays out. Mike White may have a lot of fans, but Joe Flacco appears to be the undisputed #2. 
 
I believe JD has already overpaid practice squad players, but I don’t believe he’s done it by nearly that amount. More like a couple hundred thousand. 

Didn’t know that about RFA, either. Sure it would be a dirty move by the Jets which is why I almost always (always?) side with the player when they pull the few levers at their disposal (holding out, social media campaigns, etc.) to try to exert some control over their own futures. Doesn’t mean they are making a smart decision (see: Le’Veon Bell) but I support their freedom to do it and that includes the freedom to make a bad decision. Of course, you knew this about me since you’re the person who convinced me to change my position 180 degrees on this topic.

[Dwight Englewood]

9 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

A pick every 16.5 throws or whatever it was.  Watch the MW every throw videos and get back to us about his greatness.  

Name me all the games Zach Wilson has 3 or more touchdown passes. 

[jgb]

9 minutes ago, Dwight Englewood said:

Name me all the games Zach Wilson has 3 or more touchdown passes. 

I’d be happy with top half in ANY of the “big 3” QB stats this season: completion percentage, yards, TDs. As we are likely to be a run-first team that uses the pass as an extension of the run game, it will be highly disappointing if we aren’t top half in completion percentage this year. The others are IMHO less likely given the team’s apparent constitution. 

[Dwight Englewood]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

I’d be happy with top half in ANY of the “big 3” QB stats this season: completion percentage, yards, TDs. As we are likely to be a run-first team that uses the pass as an extension of the run game, it will be highly disappointing if we aren’t top half in completion percentage this year. The others are IMHO less likely given the team’s apparent constitution. 

Name me all the games Wilson has 300 or more passing yards

[jgb]

Just now, Dwight Englewood said:

Name me all the games Wilson has 300 or more passing yards

I don’t take homework assignments over the Internet, not even from those I fundamentally agree with. If you have a point, you can make it.

[Dwight Englewood]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

I don’t take homework assignments over the Internet, not even from those I fundamentally agree with. If you have a point, you can make it.

What’s the point? Wilson had a horrible rookie year and showed nothing?

[Warfish]

9 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

A pick every 16.5 throws or whatever it was.  Watch the MW every throw videos and get back to us about his greatness.  

MW is definitely bad in this regard, as that Buffalo game definitely skews his rates given the very small sample size overall.  

I'm sure you are aware that Zach was also one of the worst QB's in the NFL at his rate of throwing INT's.

In fact, Zach was 7th worst last year, with a rate of 2.9%.

The QB's worse than him were JAG Heinike at 3.0%, Hurt Mayfield at 3.1%, Bust Darnold at 3.2%, Runner Jackson at 3.4%, Pending Bust Fields at 3.7% and Very Old Man Dalton at 3.8%.

Not exactly the company you'd expect a truly elite young franchise QB to be in...although Super Bowl winner Stafford was pretty close to Zach, actually.  But Stafford was a close to 5K yard, 40+ TD QB, so he gets a little benefit of the doubt, lol.

What's most amazing is Zach was still this bad despite his very obvious concerted effort to play spineless risk-free football when he came back after his injury.  It was clear his (and the team's) primary goal was not to score or win games, but to limit Zach's INT's during that 2nd phase of his season last year.

This will be one of Zach's biggest tests in 2022.  His INT rate.  If it's anywhere close to last year, it'll be a sign he may not in fact have developed as much as we hoped.  And hopefully we play a lot less scared than we did in the 2nd half of 2022.  No one wants to watch another game like Zach's closer against Buffalo with that complete lack of confidence and effort to try and compete or win.

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, Dwight Englewood said:

What’s the point? Wilson had a horrible rookie year and showed nothing?

Wasn’t the question you asked but yes, he had an objectively horrible rookie year and everyone here knows that I believe that his odds of becoming a FQB are longer today then they were upon his draft selection.