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Around the league - training camp


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1 hour ago, section314 said:

I've posted this before, and the highlighted part made me think of it again. At Alabama's pro day, the NFL network sideline guy was standing with a bunch of scouts watching Jones throw. The brought him up and asked what he was hearing. Said the scouts he was with were having a very deep conversation with each other asking if they thought Mac Jones was going to get any better than he was right now. Surprisingly, more than one thought he had hit his ceiling. Found that to be pretty interesting.

Yes that was always the narrative. He was the most "pro ready" but there were a lot who thought that since he played on the NFLs 33rd team essentially surrounded by elite talent that he pretty much is what he is.

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38 minutes ago, Dreams said:

Sorry but your entire post reads like a Zach dream wish list, and I don't blame you, but it's not reality. Again this is all based on what you want to believe and not the reality of the situation. I won't argue because I won't change your mind, but I will say this, we are all going to know exactly who these two are a lot sooner than 3 years. my bet is Zach is competing for a back up job as early as next season and Jones proves he was the best QB in the class by the end of this season as well. 

 

Actually it is not what I believe. It is fact. Does not mean that Zach will be a Top 10 QB, but your narrative is that Jones should have been picked over Zach and literally no team in the NFL would have drafted Jones over Zach not one. Schrager posted an anonymous list of where the QBs were ranked and Lawrence was #1 on like 20 boards, Zach on like 10 and Fields like 2.  Your posts just come across as complete NE homer and that is fine, but once again you are ignoring the reality of how much more skill and potential Zach has than Jones. Simms that has been superb at predicting QB success had Zach as the #1 prospect by a lot in his own words.

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9 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Actually it is not what I believe. It is fact. Does not mean that Zach will be a Top 10 QB, but your narrative is that Jones should have been picked over Zach and literally no team in the NFL would have drafted Jones over Zach not one. Schrager posted an anonymous list of where the QBs were ranked and Lawrence was #1 on like 20 boards, Zach on like 10 and Fields like 2.  Your posts just come across as complete NE homer and that is fine, but once again you are ignoring the reality of how much more skill and potential Zach has than Jones. Simms that has been superb at predicting QB success had Zach as the #1 prospect by a lot in his own words.

And not a team out there would have drafted Josh Allen over Sam Darnold, but guess what they were all wrong on that one also. Hell they get it wrong all the time, this team alone has gotten wrong every time and guess what they just got it wrong again. That's the last I'm going to say about it. 

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17 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Right?

Dreams and Jet Nut shut up already.

 

If they don't can someone just start a new thread so I don't have to scroll through this nonsense on a camp update thread. These silly arguments can be entertaining at times...other times they are super annoying. This case is the latter. 

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5 hours ago, Dreams said:

I'm talking football, what Mac Jones is or becomes has nothing to do with what Zach Wilson becomes. We should have drafted Mac Jones, I'm sorry but that was my opinion before the draft and it still is. Zach was an over drafted media creation based on one season of success against low level competition, no matter how much I root for him it's not going to change that. I've said this before, in the last 20 years a dozen or so rookie QB's that started and finished their seasons at the bottom of the league statistically haven't amounted to anything in the NFL, not one was more than a career back up. Guess where Zach ended up last season? I've seen this movie before, I know how it ends, so I'm sorry for not blowing smoke up your back side.  

Are you are on drugs....or slow....or not paying attention. I am NOT a Zack fan boy, get your facts straight. 

 

He is the qb on my team...and the team you SAY you root for. 

 

Like I said, you are rooting for the wrong QB son. 

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1 minute ago, jetspenguin said:

Are you are on drugs....or slow....or not paying attention. I am NOT a Zack fan boy, get your facts straight. 

 

He is the qb on my team...and the team you SAY you root for. 

 

Like I said, you are rooting for the wrong QB son. 

Zach can't play, I've come to terms with that, you will too. 

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Just now, Dreams said:

Zach can't play, I've come to terms with that, you will too. 

again.....you are not paying attention. I never said Zack was a good qb. Check my record, its pretty clear. 

 

I said, you are rooting for the wrong qb. 

 

That still stands. 

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53 minutes ago, Dreams said:

In terms of the competition they both faced absolutely. If football was an arm strength contest Zach win hands down, it's not. What elevated Zach's draft stock was the dream of what everyone hoped he could do, they hoped he could develop a quick release to go with his arm strength, they thought that they could teach him to read defenses and how to manipulate coverages. What I'm saying is that they put the emphasis on the wrong skill set, and arm strength is may be number 4 or 5 and it's pretty much the only one Zach excels at. So yes, not only am I saying that Mac Jones is the better prospect, he's going to have the far better career.   

Seriously??

Develop a quick release? He has one of the fastest releases in the entire NFL up there with Rodgers and Mahomes.

Learn how to read defenses and manipulate coverages? Clearly you have not watched tape. Even JT O-Sullivan who was one of the bigger Zach pre-draft detractors though he was elite in this area.  

And by the way, Zach was not drafted because of arm strength but arm talent. Two very very different things. Zach has well above average arm strength but that was a minor facet. His throwing was rated so high because of velocity to the perimeter (ELITE) release speed (ELITE) throwing on the run (ELITE to both sides) throwing off angle (ELITE) accuracy (EXCELLENT)- Also before you point out his completion percentage or his propensity to throw inaccurately behind the LOS at times, they were noted as issues in college as well. One of JT O'Sullivans knocks was that he was unsure if Zach was insanely accurate or just essentially lucky on 50/50 balls (Also JT O'Sullivan was so impressed with Zach last year he altered his opinion on that)

And by the way in terms of work ethic and football intelligence he is way up there as well.

Also the one year of performance thing is complete BS.

In his rookie season bowl game he was 18/18 for 317 yards and 4 TDS.

In his second season pre-injury he had very good games against Tennesee and USC.

His third season wasn't just good it was one of the best seasons by a QB in college...EVER. And it was in a pro style offense.

Also on the competition thing, two points. One he played against better teams but he played for Alabama surrounded by multiple first round draft picks at RB and WR and a OL that was absolutely loaded also with multiple first round picks.

Zach Wilson had a 3rd round OL, a fifth rounder in Allegier in 2021 and 3 7th round picks and a bunch of future Costco employees as his surrounding cast.

Ask yourself this: If you switch Jones to BYU and Zach to Alabama do you really think that Jones would have performed similar to Zach or that Zach would not have been completely dominant for Alabama? There is zero correlation for QB success in the NFL to strength of opposition. None. 

 

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12 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I really thought Harry was gonna be something. Dang.

Fields is facing an even worse situation than Darnold. Chicago has given him nothing on offense and he is in his second year with new HC and new OC. NFL QB bust rate is very tied to lack of continuity between year 1 AND 2

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25 minutes ago, Dreams said:

And not a team out there would have drafted Josh Allen over Sam Darnold, but guess what they were all wrong on that one also. Hell they get it wrong all the time, this team alone has gotten wrong every time and guess what they just got it wrong again. That's the last I'm going to say about it. 

Well bad example because Allen was beyond bad his first season. Again judging by year 1 is completely useless. Looking at your other posts though I realize you are just trolling so I am out.

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13 minutes ago, Dreams said:

Zach can't play, I've come to terms with that, you will too. 

Do you always judge players on one year? Mac is a god and Zach sucks. Cool. 

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14 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Seriously??

Develop a quick release? He has one of the fastest releases in the entire NFL up there with Rodgers and Mahomes.

Learn how to read defenses and manipulate coverages? Clearly you have not watched tape. Even JT O-Sullivan who was one of the bigger Zach pre-draft detractors though he was elite in this area.  

And by the way, Zach was not drafted because of arm strength but arm talent. Two very very different things. Zach has well above average arm strength but that was a minor facet. His throwing was rated so high because of velocity to the perimeter (ELITE) release speed (ELITE) throwing on the run (ELITE to both sides) throwing off angle (ELITE) accuracy (EXCELLENT)- Also before you point out his completion percentage or his propensity to throw inaccurately behind the LOS at times, they were noted as issues in college as well. One of JT O'Sullivans knocks was that he was unsure if Zach was insanely accurate or just essentially lucky on 50/50 balls (Also JT O'Sullivan was so impressed with Zach last year he altered his opinion on that)

And by the way in terms of work ethic and football intelligence he is way up there as well.

Also the one year of performance thing is complete BS.

In his rookie season bowl game he was 18/18 for 317 yards and 4 TDS.

In his second season pre-injury he had very good games against Tennesee and USC.

His third season wasn't just good it was one of the best seasons by a QB in college...EVER. And it was in a pro style offense.

Also on the competition thing, two points. One he played against better teams but he played for Alabama surrounded by multiple first round draft picks at RB and WR and a OL that was absolutely loaded also with multiple first round picks.

Zach Wilson had a 3rd round OL, a fifth rounder in Allegier in 2021 and 3 7th round picks and a bunch of future Costco employees as his surrounding cast.

Ask yourself this: If you switch Jones to BYU and Zach to Alabama do you really think that Jones would have performed similar to Zach or that Zach would not have been completely dominant for Alabama? There is zero correlation for QB success in the NFL to strength of opposition. None. 

 

I get it you're dug in, we'll compare notes after the season and see who had a better take on the two. 

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14 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Well bad example because Allen was beyond bad his first season. Again judging by year 1 is completely useless. Looking at your other posts though I realize you are just trolling so I am out.

Allen was a complete outlier, but you go ahead and wait three years then let me know how it turned out for you.  

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13 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

 

Murray has no one else to blame for that perception and the clause in the contract.

Quote

In a New York Times profile from last December, Murray admitted that he doesn’t burn the midnight oil while studying pigskin celluloid.

“I think I was blessed with the cognitive skills to just go out there and just see it before it happens,” Murray said, via Sarah Kezele of 98.7 Arizona Sports. “I’m not one of those guys that’s going to sit there and kill myself watching film. I don’t sit there for 24 hours and break down this team and that team and watch every game because, in my head, I see so much.”

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/07/25/kyler-murray-admitted-last-year-that-he-doesnt-spend-extensive-time-watching-film/

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1 hour ago, Dreams said:

And not a team out there would have drafted Josh Allen over Sam Darnold, but guess what they were all wrong on that one also. Hell they get it wrong all the time, this team alone has gotten wrong every time and guess what they just got it wrong again. That's the last I'm going to say about it. 

Disagree with this.  Allen was definetely considered one of the top prospects in that draft.  It wouldn't have shocked anyone if he went No. 1.   Based on the ceiling argument Allen had the highest ceiling coming out of anyone.   The Browns and Jets went for the sure thing over the best prospect and they both failed.  

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14 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Disagree with this.  Allen was definitely considered one of the top prospects in that draft.  It wouldn't have shocked anyone if he went No. 1.   Based on the ceiling argument Allen had the highest ceiling coming out of anyone.   The Browns and Jets went for the sure thing over the best prospect and they both failed.  

The point is that if you look back at the history of the draft there are always QB's created out of hype. 

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7 minutes ago, Dreams said:

The point is that if you look back at the history of the draft there are always QB's created out of hype. 

Zach was not hype. It is where you among many many other things are wrong, but go put on your Mac Jones shirt and check out the Cheatriots forum.

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1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

Zach was not hype. It is where you among many many other things are wrong, but go put on your Mac Jones shirt and check out the Cheatriots forum.

I get you're angry, I'm not too pleased myself but it is what it is.

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4 hours ago, Dreams said:

I get it you're dug in, we'll compare notes after the season and see who had a better take on the two. 

I made this mistake. Created a profile on a Bills forum and pretended to be a Bills fan so that I can troll them on Josh Allen. Then Josh Allen blew up.

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8 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

I made this mistake. Created a profile on a Bills forum and pretended to be a Bills fan so that I can troll them on Josh Allen. Then Josh Allen blew up.

Sure whatever you say, if you don't believe in Zach Wilson you can't be a Jets fan. 

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3 hours ago, Dreams said:

The point is that if you look back at the history of the draft there are always QB's created out of hype. 

If you look back at their first 2 years, Elway and Aikman would have fit that bill too. 

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