Jamal Adams Out Indefinitely

[jgb]

29 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I'll be curious to see if this serious finger problem evaporates week 1.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


 

Yeah plus unless you’re Kyle Wilson you can play with an immobilized finger. Not like he used it for interceptions anyway…

[Dcat]

7 hours ago, AltonBrown said:

Jamal was on a HOF trajectory here.

No, he wasn't. He couldn't cover.  But for those few special moments, his play was bad.  He could occasionally get to the QB on a blitz, but other than that, his game sucked.  Really sucked.  Probably the most overrated player ever. 

One-note songs like that do not make Canton. Ever.  

[peebag]

Once his hand heals, he'll go back to being the greatest safety/football player/person the world has ever seen.

[Jetsfan80]

46 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

 

Plus not having to pay a Box Safety $17.5M a year.  

That cap space tho

[Untouchable]

Jamal “My fingers hurt” Adams

[jgb]

24 minutes ago, Dcat said:

No, he wasn't. He couldn't cover.  But for those few special moments, his play was bad.  He could occasionally get to the QB on a blitz, but other than that, his game sucked.  Really sucked.  Probably the most overrated player ever. 

One-note songs like that do not make Canton. Ever.  

Totally overrated. Gotta give him credit though that he built a helluva lucrative brand out of the Jets hiding his coverage deficiencies by blitzing him all the time. If I was a safety in the league I’d be agitating to blitz more.

[Bruce Harper]

Not really sure how a guy who never gets interceptions can't just tape the two fingers together and play.  Waiting for more dogs?

[Bruce Harper]

4 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Just another in a long list of wasted 1st round picks that date back to at least 2008 and possibly all the way to 2020.   How anyone can defend Woody for hiring Idzik and then Mac is beyond me.   

Not wasted.  We got a couple of years of high level play from him and then AVT and Garrett Wilson, who should be high level starters for us for the next eight to ten years.  Hardly a wasted pick, but just because JD pulled a rabbit out of his hat.

[nycdan]

Seems fair to point out that Shaq Griffin got an INT in practice yesterday.  With one hand.

So 'my finger hurts' feels a little thin next to that.

And just for a little dark humor, there's this tweet:

 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Bruce Harper said:

Not wasted.  We got a couple of years of high level play from him and then AVT and Garrett Wilson, who should be high level starters for us for the next eight to ten years.  Hardly a wasted pick, but just because JD pulled a rabbit out of his hat.

Look at the list of players we missed out on by taking Jamal Adams and get back to me.

[dbatesman]

We got two firsts and a third for this guy. Just an absolute heist.

[Bruce Harper]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Look at the list of players we missed out on by taking Jamal Adams and get back to me.

No doubt if we had a crystal ball we would have taken Mahomes, but we have done much worse with our first round picks.

[Jetsfan80]

14 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

No doubt if we had a crystal ball we would have taken Mahomes, but we have done much worse with our first round picks.

Top 10 picks aren't just about taking a "good player".  It's about impact.  Using a # 6 pick on a Box Safety in a draft class that was FAR from being devoid of premium talent at the top is unforgivable.  This was a team devoid of talent and Mike Maccagnan made a luxury pick rather than one that could actually move the needle for the franchise, because he was a shmuck and a coward and always will be.  

So, no, I would make a very strong argument that it was indeed our worst 1st round pick in franchise history, regardless of what we got back from Adams in the trade and regardless of how well Adams played his first few years here.  Because the logic of the pick made no sense whatsoever.  

[Bruce Harper]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Top 10 picks aren't just about taking a "good player".  It's about impact.  Using a # 6 pick on a Box Safety in a draft class that was FAR from being devoid of premium talent at the top is unforgivable.  This was a team devoid of talent and Mike Maccagnan made a luxury pick rather than one that could actually move the needle for the franchise, because he was a shmuck and a coward and always will be.

So, no, I would make a very strong argument that it was indeed our worst 1st round pick in franchise history, regardless of what we got back from Adams in the trade and regardless of how well Adams played his first few years here.  Because the logic of the pick made no sense whatsoever.  

Gholston, Lam Jones, Blair Thomas much worse, just to name a few.  As it turns out, we will reap the benefits of the Adams pick for years to come.  But was it a good pick by Mac?  You are correct, it was not.  It was pretty terrible at the time and has only become not terrible by fortuitous circumstances.

[Bruce Harper]

51 minutes ago, peebag said:

Once his hand heals, he'll go back to being the greatest safety/football player/person the world has ever seen.

More importantly, is it going to affect his tweeting?

[32EBoozer]

3 hours ago, k-met57 said:

his fingers look fine....no clue what he is talking about

[jgb]

10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Top 10 picks aren't just about taking a "good player".  It's about impact.  Using a # 6 pick on a Box Safety in a draft class that was FAR from being devoid of premium talent at the top is unforgivable.  This was a team devoid of talent and Mike Maccagnan made a luxury pick rather than one that could actually move the needle for the franchise, because he was a shmuck and a coward and always will be.  

So, no, I would make a very strong argument that it was indeed our worst 1st round pick in franchise history, regardless of what we got back from Adams in the trade and regardless of how well Adams played his first few years here.  Because the logic of the pick made no sense whatsoever.  

Mac drafted not to lose rather than to win and was as close to a pure BAP drafter that we’ve seen in the league. “Best player in the draft” narrative meant “welcome to the Jets” during his tenure, regardless of position or team need.

BAP sucks.

[The Crusher]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

Yeah plus unless you’re Kyle Wilson you can play with an immobilized finger. Not like he used it for interceptions anyway…

Oh, I thought it was all of his fingers. From when he is excessively clapping after his team mates make  plays so the announcers notice him and say,” Adams is an integral part of this defense even if he’s just standing there clapping, nobody does it like he does!”

[UntouchableCrew]

29 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So, no, I would make a very strong argument that it was indeed our worst 1st round pick in franchise history, regardless of what we got back from Adams in the trade and regardless of how well Adams played his first few years here.  Because the logic of the pick made no sense whatsoever.  

Adams is a clown but there's just no chance he's the worst first round pick in franchise history. He was good enough that we flipped him for two 1sts and a 3rd -- real assets -- that in and of itself makes the pick much better than so many of our absolute whiffs that we got nothing out of at all.

Intent is of course important -- it's why Mac was probably worse than even Idzik. But the end result has to matter. Adams was an All Pro here. Box safety or not that cannot possibly be the worst first round pick in franchise history given how many zeroes we've drafted.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Adams is a clown but there's just no chance he's the worst first round pick in franchise history. He was good enough that we flipped him for two 1sts and a 3rd -- real assets -- that in and of itself makes the pick much better than so many of our absolute whiffs that we got nothing out of at all.

Intent is of course important -- it's why Mac was probably worse than even Idzik. But the end result has to matter. Adams was an All Pro here. Box safety or not that cannot possibly be the worst first round pick in franchise history given how many zeroes we've drafted.

 

My point is drafting a good player does not automatically mean it isn't a terrible pick.  We were extremely lucky that Seattle saw Khalil Mack-esque value in Jamal Adams, but that does not excuse the pick itself at all.  Those are 2 separate items and 2 separate analyses.  

And yes, process matters.  Vernon Gholston was obviously a terrible player, but it wasn't a worse pick than Jamal Adams.  Why?  Because the Jets needed a pass rusher badly (and we have for the last 17 years), it was a bad draft class (check out the picks AFTER Gholston), and Gholston had some athleticism at a premium position that requires athleticism more than any spot on the field.  Yet many Jets fan call it the worst draft pick in Jets history.  Not even close.  

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

Gholston, Lam Jones, Blair Thomas much worse, just to name a few.  As it turns out, we will reap the benefits of the Adams pick for years to come.  But was it a good pick by Mac?  You are correct, it was not.  It was pretty terrible at the time and has only become not terrible by fortuitous circumstances.

Jamal Adams was a worse PICK than Vernon Gholston and I'm willing to die on that hill.  

Blair Thomas has a case, I'll admit.  Even in 1990, taking a RB at # 2 overall was extremely ill-advised.  George Rogers, Billy Sims, Alonzo Highsmith and Brent Fullwood ought to have been cautionary tales at that time.

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Adams is a clown but there's just no chance he's the worst first round pick in franchise history. He was good enough that we flipped him for two 1sts and a 3rd -- real assets -- that in and of itself makes the pick much better than so many of our absolute whiffs that we got nothing out of at all.

Intent is of course important -- it's why Mac was probably worse than even Idzik. But the end result has to matter. Adams was an All Pro here. Box safety or not that cannot possibly be the worst first round pick in franchise history given how many zeroes we've drafted.

Agree with this. Adams was a terrible pick, but him being good enough to net us AVT and Garrett Wilson makes him nowhere near the worst pick in franchise history.

the worst pick in franchise history is hack in the second round a year earlier - which is what ultimately resulted in us passing on Mahomes and Watson, anyway 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

Agree with this. Adams was a terrible pick, but him being good enough to net us AVT and Garrett Wilson makes him nowhere near the worst pick in franchise history.

the worst pick in franchise history is hack in the second round a year earlier - which is what ultimately resulted in us passing on Mahomes and Watson, anyway 

We're talking 1st rounders only at the moment.  In terms of ALL picks, yes, Christian Hackenberg is my choice for worst pick in franchise history.  

[jgb]

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

My point is drafting a good player does not automatically mean it isn't a terrible pick.  We were extremely lucky that Seattle saw Khalil Mack-esque value in Jamal Adams, but that does not excuse the pick itself at all.  Those are 2 separate items and 2 separate analyses.  

And yes, process matters.  Vernon Gholston was obviously a terrible player, but it wasn't a worse pick than Jamal Adams.  Why?  Because the Jets needed a pass rusher badly (and we have for the last 17 years), it was a bad draft class (check out the picks AFTER Gholston), and Gholston had some athleticism at a premium position that requires athleticism more than any spot on the field.  Yet many Jets fan call it the worst draft pick in Jets history.  Not even close.  

Geno Smith -- who everyone knows I abhor -- was also not a bad pick. 2nd round for a QB who was in the conversation as consensus first overall less than 12 months prior? Can't fault a GM for taking that shot. 

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

We're talking 1st rounders only at the moment.  In terms of ALL picks, yes, Christian Hackenberg is my choice for worst pick in franchise history.  

Hackenberg was inexcusable. Especially when considering Macc grabbed him because he got "spooked" when Bill O'Brien -- Hack's former college coach when Hackenberg looked pretty good as a frosh -- traded ahead of the Jets to.... not draft Hackenberg.

How the fugg did this convince Macc that Hack was suddenly a target by other teams? If O'Brien smashed the "do not want" button...

As I've said before, I would pay a hefty bounty if anyone could tell me where Macc plays poker on Tuesday nights. 

[slimjasi]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

We're talking 1st rounders only at the moment.  In terms of ALL picks, yes, Christian Hackenberg is my choice for worst pick in franchise history.  

I don’t see any way that a team with as bad of a drafting history as the jets could consider Adams to be the worst 1st round pick in franchise history. 
 

that just seems nuts 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, jgb said:

Geno Smith -- who everyone knows I abhor -- was also not a bad pick. 2nd round for a player who was in the conversation as consensus first overall less than 12 months prior? Can't fault a GM for taking that shot. 

I think Jets fans get so caught up with the flawed idea that the draft is a "crap shoot" that any time a pick yields a useful player it can't be that bad of a pick.

That's results-based analysis and it doesn't work.  When it comes to how GM's make their picks over a period of several years, process and logic matters more than anything.  You know a lot of your picks are going to fail, so you HAVE to go after players who, if they work out, will be able to move the needle.  

That's why so many here KNEW a pick by Maccagnan was going to be terrible from the jump.  Because for far too many of his picks, you knew that even if the player maximized his ability, it wasn't going to move the needle.  Jamal Adams played well here yet it didn't really do anything for the Jets in the W-L column.  

Since people were able to call much of this on Adams from the jump, his defenders can't exactly turn around and say "well in hindsight it worked out because Douglas was able to make a great trade".  It doesn't work like that. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I don’t see any way that a team with as bad of a drafting history as the jets could consider Adams to be the worst 1st round pick in franchise history. 
 

that just seems nuts 

 

The bold from my post above is relevant here:

 

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I think Jets fans get so caught up with the flawed idea that the draft is a "crap shoot" that any time a pick yields a useful player it can't be that bad of a pick.

That's results-based analysis and it doesn't work.  When it comes to how GM's make their picks over a period of several years, process and logic matters more than anything.  You know a lot of your picks are going to fail, so you HAVE to go after players who, if they work out, will be able to move the needle.  

That's why so many here KNEW a pick by Maccagnan was going to be terrible from the jump.  Because for far too many of his picks, you knew that even if the player maximized his ability, it wasn't going to move the needle.  Jamal Adams played well here yet it didn't really do anything for the Jets in the W-L column.  

Since people were able to call much of this on Adams from the jump, his defenders can't exactly turn around and say "well in hindsight it worked out because Douglas was able to make a great trade".  It doesn't work like that. 

 

The whole reason the Jets have made so many horrible picks over the years is because the GM's in charge had a terrible process.

Jamal Adams was evidence of just how bad Mike Maccagnan's process was.  A team desperate for talent at premium positions had no business whatsoever picking a Box Safety, I.E. luxury pick.

It was the worst logic behind a 1st round pick in franchise history, and it was made in a draft that was brimming with talent.  

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

The bold from my post above is relevant here:

 

 

The whole reason the Jets have made so many horrible picks over the years is because the GM's in charge had a terrible process.

Jamal Adams was evidence of just how bad Mike Maccagnan's process was.  A team desperate for talent at premium positions had no business whatsoever picking a Box Safety, I.E. luxury pick.

It was the worst logic behind a 1st round pick in franchise history, and it was made in a draft that was brimming with talent.  

Even if this were true - “Worst logic” doesn’t make it the worst pick - he was good enough to net us an A+ guard prospect and a really good #1 WR prospect. The talent of the player alone I think renders the “worst pick” designation as a reach, IMO. 
 

Guys like Vernon Gholston couldn’t even play in the league. There is a fundamental difference there. 

[UntouchableCrew]

28 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

My point is drafting a good player does not automatically mean it isn't a terrible pick.  We were extremely lucky that Seattle saw Khalil Mack-esque value in Jamal Adams, but that does not excuse the pick itself at all.  Those are 2 separate items and 2 separate analyses.  

And yes, process matters.  Vernon Gholston was obviously a terrible player, but it wasn't a worse pick than Jamal Adams.  Why?  Because the Jets needed a pass rusher badly (and we have for the last 17 years), it was a bad draft class (check out the picks AFTER Gholston), and Gholston had some athleticism at a premium position that requires athleticism more than any spot on the field.  Yet many Jets fan call it the worst draft pick in Jets history.  Not even close.  

I get what you're saying and I would agree that when evaluating the drafter "process" is more important -- but when evaluating the individual pick itself the end result still rules. The goal of the draft is to improve your team. Jamal Adams did more to improve the Jets than Vernon Gholston did.

Adams really only becomes the worse pick in franchise history when you factor in opportunity cost -- the fact that we could have had Mahomes although that wasn't necessarily foreseeable.

In fact you could argue that's evidence that Hackenberg was the worst pick in franchise history.

Regardless, we are all in agreement that Mike Maccagnan was an incompetent bumbling buffoon who submarined this franchise for half a decade. We should be thankful we'd rid of him and JD seems to know what he's doing.

[ZachEY]

3 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

No doubt if we had a crystal ball we would have taken Mahomes, but we have done much worse with our first round picks.

The thing is, while you couldn't predict how good Mahommes would be, when we drafted a safety at #6 overall, leaving 2 highly ranked QBs on the board, our QB room was Josh McCown, Bryce Petty, and Christian Hackenberg.

That's why the pick is historically bad.  Macc looked at that QB room and said:

And in 2017, drafted a safety who didn't even cover the pass.

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Even if this were true - “Worst logic” doesn’t make it the worst pick - he was good enough to net us an A+ guard prospect and a really good #1 WR prospect. The talent of the player alone I think renders the “worst pick” designation as a reach, IMO. 
 

Guys like Vernon Gholston couldn’t even play in the league. There is a fundamental difference there. 

 

If your GM doesn't have strong logic behind all of his picks, then he's a terrible GM and your team is screwed for as long as he's there.  It's why Mike Maccagnan was the worst GM in NFL history. 

Logic and process is EVERYTHING when it comes to the draft.  So I don't know why that's getting dismissed so easily in this thread.  It's how some of the same GM's tend to come away with so much premium talent in the draft over the years:  They have a good process.  It's not a simple luck of the draw.

[ZachEY]

3 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

Gholston, Lam Jones, Blair Thomas much worse, just to name a few.  As it turns out, we will reap the benefits of the Adams pick for years to come.  But was it a good pick by Mac?  You are correct, it was not.  It was pretty terrible at the time and has only become not terrible by fortuitous circumstances.

Go back and look at the 2008 draft.  Can't even get upset about the Gholston pick.  Who are you taking there?  Desean Jackson, literally a round and a half before he got picked?  Or maybe you take our current back-up QB, Joe Flacco?

[jgb]

25 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I think Jets fans get so caught up with the flawed idea that the draft is a "crap shoot" that any time a pick yields a useful player it can't be that bad of a pick.

That's results-based analysis and it doesn't work.  When it comes to how GM's make their picks over a period of several years, process and logic matters more than anything.  You know a lot of your picks are going to fail, so you HAVE to go after players who, if they work out, will be able to move the needle.  

That's why so many here KNEW a pick by Maccagnan was going to be terrible from the jump.  Because for far too many of his picks, you knew that even if the player maximized his ability, it wasn't going to move the needle.  Jamal Adams played well here yet it didn't really do anything for the Jets in the W-L column.  

Since people were able to call much of this on Adams from the jump, his defenders can't exactly turn around and say "well in hindsight it worked out because Douglas was able to make a great trade".  It doesn't work like that. 

The results-based analysis doesn't work on a pick-by-pick basis. It has some merit, perhaps, as a way to measure the overall record of a GM over time. Although (and this is a new idea that I haven't begun to do research on) I hypothesize that the difference in "hit rate" (read: useable players obtained via the draft) between GMs is likely to be immaterial except for a few outliers on the negative side (guys like Idzik who whiff on 11 of 12 picks doesn't get a chance to increase their sample). While any positive outliers, are likely brought back to the mean as they go through more drafts.

Rather, the difference between all but the abject flameout GMs and the great ones is not their hit rate but their slugging percentage. A GM is defined by his homeruns, not his singles or walks -- which, again, I hypothesize is relatively consistent amongst GMs.

[slimjasi]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

If your GM doesn't have strong logic behind all of his picks, then he's a terrible GM and your team is screwed for as long as he's there.  It's why Mike Maccagnan was the worst GM in NFL history. 

Logic and process is EVERYTHING when it comes to the draft.  So I don't know why that's getting dismissed so easily in this thread.  It's how some of the same GM's tend to come away with so much premium talent in the draft over the years:  They have a good process.  It's not a simple luck of the draw.

Agreed that process is important - but practically, I don’t see a realistic argument for a pro-bowl caliber player being the worst first round pick in franchise history. Certainly not for this franchise. Too many of our first rounders have failed to even become longtime starters.