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Training Camp Tweets - (Previous Days Merged)


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3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

That's true, but I am not sure that you can fault the GM for Becton getting hurt earlier this year than last.  Maybe he is misreading the market, but $10M for Reiff is not something I wanted.  Skeptable's analysis of Brown notwithstanding, I'd prefer to give that money to Brown.

I am not faulting JD.  I think he has been amazing (as compared to other recent Jets GMs - not saying he's the second coming) but the Jets had Moses at this point last year.  on 8/7/22, we had no (legitimate) backup plan.  Now it's gonna cost us.  Brown was in the building Saturday night.  could you imagine if JD had this done then?

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20 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Please show me the quantifiable data for this fact.  

It was only a half point, but PFF had Brown higher.  Brown made the pro bowl, Moses did not.  Brown was the LT on the 16th ranked offense (23ppg), Moses was the RT on the 28th (18ppg).  I get arguing that Brown will not be a huge upgrade, that he is older and might be done, or that Brown will be expensive, the idea that everybody thinks Moses was obviously better is false.  If that were a fact, Moses probably signs for more than $5M/1 year while Reiff and Brown are probably demanding double.

Moses allowed 4 sacks and 4 penalties and 49 pressures on the right side over his 1070 snaps... Brown allowed 8 sacks and 5 penalties on over 40 pressures... PFF rated them almost the exact same. Brown is known to only play the Left side... Maybe I over exaggerated that Moses outplayed him but there is no reason to think that Brown played at a pro-bowl level last year unless you think Moses should have been a pro-bowler himself.

His name recognition and many years prior of only allowing 57 total pressures over his first 6 seasons is why he made the pro-bowl ... he had over 67 pressures the last 2 seasons... Moses also was a better run blocker but I will concede I thought Moses played better then the stats show.

I am not saying he doesn't improve what the Jets have currently, I am just saying calling him a pro-bowler is a bit exaggerated at this point in his career.

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11 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

So, you think that D all of the above is a valid option?

While I get being all depressed over losing out RT it’s too early to accept that Zach’s season is over, that he can’t get to where we want him to be on year two.  We can have Zach improve while the D also improves

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12 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

He played T at USC.  And guard.  

I know he played some T but he was a G.  And was drafted as a G to play G.  He hasn’t played as a NFL T that’s a different deal altogether 

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9 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

Simply because AVT *can* do it doesn't mean it's the best choice. Creating a hole at guard (Interior pressure is becoming much more of an emphasis) where you have a player playing at a high level to fill another hole means you're now taking on two "hopes" in that AVT will perform highly at tackle AND you'll be able to fill in the guard spot. 

Personally, I'd much rather have one question at right tackle then compromise the interior. 

In concept i agree.  The concern i have is that at this point avt may be the best backup at each tackle so if either goes down avt would probably have to play tackle.  And it’s easier to get a guard than a tackle.

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13 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

That's true, but I am not sure that you can fault the GM for Becton getting hurt earlier this year than last.  Maybe he is misreading the market, but $10M for Reiff is not something I wanted.  Skeptable's analysis of Brown notwithstanding, I'd prefer to give that money to Brown.

Yeah, I wanted Reiff but not at that price tag. It feels like the offers probably weren't even in the same ballpark either. Most cost effective thing is probably to keep cycling in developmental picks and try to develop OL talent. As it stands, even if they resign Fant, they're still having to make a decision at center and probably another tackle at this point as well next year.

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8 minutes ago, Legend Killa7 said:

I am not faulting JD.  I think he has been amazing (as compared to other recent Jets GMs - not saying he's the second coming) but the Jets had Moses at this point last year.  on 8/7/22, we had no (legitimate) backup plan.  Now it's gonna cost us.  Brown was in the building Saturday night.  could you imagine if JD had this done then?

How many NFL teams have backup plans for the loss of both of their starting Ts?  Yeah today it sucks.  

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8 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Moses allowed 4 sacks and 4 penalties and 49 pressures on the right side over his 1070 snaps... Brown allowed 8 sacks and 5 penalties on over 40 pressures... PFF rated them almost the exact same. Brown is known to only play the Left side... Maybe I over exaggerated that Moses outplayed him but there is no reason to think that Brown played at a pro-bowl level last year unless you think Moses should have been a pro-bowler himself.

His name recognition and many years prior of only allowing 57 total pressures over his first 6 seasons is why he made the pro-bowl ... he had over 67 pressures the last 2 seasons... Moses also was a better run blocker but I will concede I thought Moses played better then the stats show.

I am not saying he doesn't improve what the Jets have currently, I am just saying calling him a pro-bowler is a bit exaggerated at this point in his career.

Fair enough.  I don't think Duane Brown making the pro bowl in 2021 means you are getting prime Duane Brown, but I think it is a valid reason to think he isn't completely done (better than Edoga/McDermott).

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20 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

What’s the better outcome for this team in 2022?

A. They finish with the best pass defense in the history of modern football. 
-or-

B. Zach Wilson finishes the season as the 15th ranked passer in the NFL.

B! 

But Zach Wilson can finish 15th and still get ragdolled around Metlife. See: Joe Burrow.

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2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

How many NFL teams have backup plans for the loss of both of their starting Ts?  Yeah today it sucks.  

Both?  Did I miss something and Fant is done now too?  Yeah no one has a backup plan for both going down, but we had this guy in the building three days ago......that's all I am trying to say here.  Believe me, I am NOT one of these guys saying the Jets should have taken Ickey over Sauce or anything.  Just wish JD had gotten this done three days ago.  we would feel a lot better, because he most likely would have gotten him at  cheaper cost, and could NOW use that excess money to get Brown's backup today.

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Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Fair enough.  I don't think Duane Brown making the pro bowl in 2021 means you are getting prime Duane Brown, but I think it is a valid reason to think he isn't completely done (better than Edoga/McDermott).

Sure but he is not beating Fant for the LT job. Its the lesser of 2 evils... an ascending player who played his best year at LT versus a declining aging player playing his worst year.

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Just now, Legend Killa7 said:

Both?  Did I miss something and Fant is done now too?  Yeah no one has a backup plan for both going down, but we had this guy in the building three days ago......that's all I am trying to say here.  Believe me, I am NOT one of these guys saying the Jets should have taken Ickey over Sauce or anything.  Just wish JD had gotten this done three days ago.  we would feel a lot better, because he most likely would have gotten him at  cheaper cost, and could NOW use that excess money to get Brown's backup today.

He’s coming off a knee injury and surgery.  He not playing every day.  I know he doesn’t get the Becton treatment but given his history why should anyone assume he’ll be there all season like a year ago.

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12 minutes ago, Legend Killa7 said:

I am not faulting JD.  I think he has been amazing (as compared to other recent Jets GMs - not saying he's the second coming) but the Jets had Moses at this point last year.  on 8/7/22, we had no (legitimate) backup plan.  Now it's gonna cost us.  Brown was in the building Saturday night.  could you imagine if JD had this done then?

I get it, but Reiff signed on like the 26th.  Presumably he was still the backup plan at that point.  Becton and his injuries fall at the feet of Douglas, but I think he has done a fair job of working around that.  I do get the criticism of losing those picks in the trade ups for Johnson and Hall.  A guy like Raimann might be  a real help right now.  I know some people loved him.

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1 hour ago, Legend Killa7 said:

I would agree with you, but this year we do not have a Morgan Moses.  And even if the Jets get Brown, from what I have heard, he's not as good.  This just sucks.

I was also thinking along the lines of having time to develop our own talent. Edolga or the new kid. They're sharing reps on the right side, and they have almost all of TC to get better. Nothing like being named a starter to help a player focus, versus just being told to 'stay ready, you never know'.

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36 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

What’s the better outcome for this team in 2022?

A. They finish with the best pass defense in the history of modern football. 
-or-

B. Zach Wilson finishes the season as the 15th ranked passer in the NFL.

I would think the first begets the second

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24 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Yeah, I wanted Reiff but not at that price tag. It feels like the offers probably weren't even in the same ballpark either. Most cost effective thing is probably to keep cycling in developmental picks and try to develop OL talent. As it stands, even if they resign Fant, they're still having to make a decision at center and probably another tackle at this point as well next year.

The Bears really screwed JD with the Reiff signing.  Not only did it take Reiff off the board as an option, but you have to believe that Brown is holding out for the same $10 million, especially coming off of a Pro Bowl season - and he’s not worth that kind of money at this point.

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Just now, MykePM said:

The Bears really screwed JD with the Reiff signing.  Not only did it take Reiff off the board as an option, but you have to believe that Brown is holding out for the same $10 million, especially coming off of a Pro Bowl season - and he’s not worth that kind of money at this point.

Kind of insane that they signed him at that price point AND pissed off roquan smith enough to want to request a trade by not extending him.

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20 minutes ago, Irktusk1957 said:

I would think the first begets the second

And also.... if ZW is ready to take that step... then the name tape changing on his vision side tacke is not going to be the barrier to success. 

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2 minutes ago, Lith said:

To some extent, yes, but only 1/3 of the vote is fan vote.  1/3 is players and 1/3 is coaches.  Coaches and players must have had some positive view of his ability or he would not have made it.

I wasn't saying he was bad... just not true pro-bowl or all-pro level... he might be the 16th best LT in the league last year... maybe. Again better then what they have. And name recognition also stays true for coaches and writers too... He was once one of the best in the league so his stature stands.

But touting him as a pro-bowler just seems disingenuous. But he made it so I guess you are not wrong... 

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4 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

The narrative is that the OL immediately started showing cracks after the Becton injury.

The "Fitting" comment was not needed to describe the days events, unless of course  you hate the team and hope they fail. I mean I expect this stuff from my brother who is a Giants fan, not a beat reporter.  

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There will be both veteran and young/developmental O-line talent that gets cut before the season starts.

While I would agree it is a need to sort out O-line depth now (and pick a starter), i don't feel it has to be solved "today or else".

I feel we can let preseason play out, see what we have left post-Becton, and watch the waiver wire and cut lists like a hawk.

If the right guy shakes loose, grab him.  But definitely get a guy before Week 1.

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4 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

I wasn't saying he was bad... just not true pro-bowl or all-pro level... he might be the 16th best LT in the league last year... maybe. Again better then what they have. And name recognition also stays true for coaches and writers too... He was once one of the best in the league so his stature stands.

But touting him as a pro-bowler just seems disingenuous. But he made it so I guess you are not wrong... 

Not arguing that some vets make it based on reputation more than what they do on the field.  At 37, he is not going to be the same guy he was in his prime.  But the question really is will he be better than Edoga/Mitchell/McDermott.  I would hope one of the young guys can step up, but would feel a lot better about heading into the season with a solid vet as an option.

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15 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

The "Fitting" comment was not needed to describe the days events, unless of course  you hate the team and hope they fail. I mean I expect this stuff from my brother who is a Giants fan, not a beat reporter.  

Doesn't bother me at all.  But maybe Cimini knows he'll get under people's skin and they'll talk about his tweets.  Ultimately his job is clicks.

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6 hours ago, HighPitch said:

really? ok

No one ever said you don’t pick an OL early.  No one.  Ever
This past year yes we shouldn’t have over Sauce.  

As a rule, no.  If you need one and Ogden is there he could go #1

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1 hour ago, David Harris said:

Icky, Neal and Cross all went in the top 9.  The next T up was Trevor Penning who fell to 20.   Next one was the Cowboys in the 20's and was considered a reach.

I wouldn't change the draft.

I think we should all RELAX from the TC reports today. It's one day.  Let's see what JD does.  Thank God there's a pre-season game on Friday.

Yep. And the next OT taken after Smith wasn't until Nick Petit-Friere in the third (a project pick).

If Douglas had full advance knowledge of what was going to happen, maybe - maybe - he doesn't make the trade for Johnson, and ends up with Hall and Mafe/Ebiketie in the second and Abraham Lucas or Bernhard Raimann at 69. 

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2 hours ago, Legend Killa7 said:

I would agree with you, but this year we do not have a Morgan Moses.  And even if the Jets get Brown, from what I have heard, he's not as good.  This just sucks.

Brown was one of the few bright spots on an otherwise atrocious Seahawk OL.  Seattle does not believe a good OL is necessary.  JD does.

Brown as a short term answer at RT would be just fine.  His age is working against him, but he's been a pretty reliable OT.

Always subject to reasonable contract terms.

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Would AVT have had to be a T before he could go back to tackle?

Then then who plays G?  A rookie? 
Doubt they weaken two positions to fix one

AVT played tackle at USC.

We also signed a guard from the Eagles in the offseason who I believe was a starter (or 6th) for them.

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