I think it’s time to prepare yourself mentally for Zach Wilson being a bust

[Dunnie]

52 minutes ago, Dwight Englewood said:

We have a good young qb on the roster his name is Mike White

@Dreams is that you ??

[Beerfish]

You can win even if your franchise qb flops.

Build your whole team to be as good as it can be and if the young franchise guy flops go and get another guy.

Rams just did it, guys like foles did it, warner etc.

You hate for your latest guy to not produce early but build the whole team and you can win it.

[jgb]

I hope this thread takes on the nuanced notes of a 20-year single malt over time and becomes the next "Wes Welker Seriously?!?!?" miscall of the decade.

[PorP]

1 hour ago, Dwight Englewood said:

We have a good young qb on the roster his name is Mike White

Please define "good"

I think we are working from 2 different dictionaries. 

[jgb]

Just now, PorP said:

Please define "good"

I think we are working from 2 different dictionaries. 

We'll likely never know. I doubt MW will get the chance to increase his sample size.

[PorP]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

We'll likely never know. I doubt MW will get the chance to increase his sample size.

Ya. I agree with that and I think that is really telling. 

There are some really screwed up QB teams this year. If MW was really that good and everyone saw the "obvious"... you'd think JD's phone would have been ringing for some time now. 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, PorP said:

Ya. I agree with that and I think that is really telling. 

There are some really screwed up QB teams this year. If MW was really that good and everyone saw the "obvious"... you'd think JD's phone would have been ringing for some time now. 

If no one has wowed Howie Roseman to pick up Minshew, MW ain't going nowhere.

[FidelioJet]

5 minutes ago, PorP said:

Ya. I agree with that and I think that is really telling. 

There are some really screwed up QB teams this year. If MW was really that good and everyone saw the "obvious"... you'd think JD's phone would have been ringing for some time now. 

Exactly.  He’s not a rookie phenom.  He’s been in the league 4 years on two teams. Plenty of coaches have seen him play. They know his skill set.   

[jetstream23]

29 minutes ago, jgb said:

I hope this thread takes on the nuanced notes of a 20-year single malt over time and becomes the next "Wes Welker Seriously?!?!?" miscall of the decade.

Delete.

I misread your post.

 

[yvj]

8 minutes ago, jgb said:

We'll likely never know. I doubt MW will get the chance to increase his sample size.

One can argue there are a handful of years worth of NFL tape to make a decision about MW and his upside. 

Of course this presupposes that there are competent people watching the tape

[Grandy]

54 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

@Dreams is that you ??

Philc 

[RJIII]

On 7/30/2022 at 8:05 PM, Mogglez said:

Yet here you are! 

[65 Toss Power Trap]

18 hours ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

I never said anything about where Zach currently is or where he's heading into the future 

I said Zach was bad last year...  lol sorry forgot I'm not allowed to say that.  Tell someone to ban me I guess.

You're allowed to say Zach was bad last year. I encourage you to say it. Re-read my first response where I implore you to keep saying it.

And I  know you have said nothing about where Zach currently is, or where he is heading, or what the coaches say about him, or the changes he made from the first of the year to the last, or what his teammates say about him, or what analysts have said about him. Keep restating his bad season stats. 

 

[Mogglez]

23 minutes ago, RJIII said:

Yet here you are! 

Don’t mind me, I’m just reminding you.

[shawn306]

Ok I’ll say it

Zach Wilson will be the 2022 version of Joe Burrow

Garrett Wilson will be the 2022 version of Jamar Chase.

The Jets Defense will kill people this year

The 2022 Jets will go to the Super Bowl

I have said it

So it shall be

[Darnold's Forehead]

4 hours ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

You're allowed to say Zach was bad last year. I encourage you to say it. Re-read my first response where I implore you to keep saying it.

And I  know you have said nothing about where Zach currently is, or where he is heading, or what the coaches say about him, or the changes he made from the first of the year to the last, or what his teammates say about him, or what analysts have said about him. Keep restating his bad season stats. 

 

The same stuff is said of most high profile, highly drafted QBs.  We just went through it with Darnold (he still gets praised to this day).  Nothing those people say has any effect on how successful a QB will be. 

If I understand you correctly, you're telling me that what coaches, teammates, analysts, offseason workouts and any other talking heads indicate paints a better picture of Zach as a player than his actual play last season?  I'm sorry but I (and many others) do not think that way.  If everyone did, then every single player would be highly coveted because coaches, teammates and analysts generally sugarcoat players, all the while their tape tells a different story.

I will remain hopeful, yet realistic, and wait and see if Zach can improve from last year.  In the meantime you can cool it with the "keep restating bad stats" shtick.  I'm not here demanding you to hate/give up on Zach.  Don't know why you feel the need to get uppity.

 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

#2 overall pick on a guy who can’t complete basic passes within 5 yards of the LOS

After a full offseason of “improvement”, the QB is still dirting what should be simple dumpoffs

The kid throws more Utah bounce passes than John Stockton

[65 Toss Power Trap]

10 hours ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

The same stuff is said of most high profile, highly drafted QBs.  We just went through it with Darnold (he still gets praised to this day).  Nothing those people say has any effect on how successful a QB will be. 

If I understand you correctly, you're telling me that what coaches, teammates, analysts, offseason workouts and any other talking heads indicate paints a better picture of Zach as a player than his actual play last season?  I'm sorry but I (and many others) do not think that way.  If everyone did, then every single player would be highly coveted because coaches, teammates and analysts generally sugarcoat players, all the while their tape tells a different story.

I will remain hopeful, yet realistic, and wait and see if Zach can improve from last year.  In the meantime you can cool it with the "keep restating bad stats" shtick.  I'm not here demanding you to hate/give up on Zach.  Don't know why you feel the need to get uppity.

 

I'm not praising Darnold to this day. Are you? If Zach's career end up like Darnold's, are you going to keep praising him?

Who are "those people"? You're speaking in generalities and ambiguities. Who are you referring to?

You do not understand me correctly. Period. 

Analysts do not usually sugarcoat players. In fact, in this day and age, the internet is full of more negativity and skepticism than positivity. Players and coaches have a much shorter window than in the past in which to perform and prove.

Skip any characterizations or ad hominem statements about me. I don't even know what "uppity" mean according to you, but I can assure you I don't fit your critiques, nor would I accept them from you.

[yvj]

I'm mentally prepared for the possibility that Zach will need Drew Brees type of time to come into his own. 

[65 Toss Power Trap]

8 minutes ago, yvj said:

I'm mentally prepared for the possibility that Zach will need Drew Brees type of time to come into his own. 

What was Drew's time table?

Saleh has stated multiple times that new players need up to 3 years. He says that "it finally clicks" for different players at different time. I assume that unless Zach ends up 32nd this year, or near bottom, in ratings and stats (check with Darnold's Forehead on those stats since he watches those things closely), that Zach is going to have into next year.

Bill Walsh said that you need 25 starts to see what you have in a QB. Once a guy hasn't shown up by 25 starts, then you know what you have. ZW played in 13 games in 2021. If he plays at least 12 games this year, Bill Walsh would say that you know what you have. 

[yvj]

4 minutes ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

What was Drew's time table?

He got his first winning record AND high enough completion percentage in his 4th year. SD did boot him 2-3 years later but well we all know the story. 

[65 Toss Power Trap]

4 minutes ago, yvj said:

He got his first winning record AND high enough completion percentage in his 4th year. SD did boot him 2-3 years later but well we all know the story. 

Interesting. I don't think ZW will have that many opportunities. But ZW has a different work ethic and film-study mind set than a lot of other QBs. He is not lazy. He is going to keep working at it. You have to wonder if he is going to keep working at it until it comes together one way or another. The arm talent is there, so if he has a never-give-up-keep-working attitude, will he eventually succeed on some level? I don't know. Your comment about Brees sparks some questions/thoughts.

[jgb]

On 8/2/2022 at 5:35 PM, yvj said:

He got his first winning record AND high enough completion percentage in his 4th year. SD did boot him 2-3 years later but well we all know the story. 

They didn’t boot him. They offered him incentive-based contract which would’ve paid decent starter cash in those days if he remained the starter. This incentive contract wasn’t some sneaky way to get rid of him. It’s because he had torn the labrum of his throwing shoulder the last game the season prior. There is a pretty good chance that if that injury didn’t happen, the chargers would’ve tried to trade away Rivers.

Brees wanted more guaranteed money (who could blame him) and was worried the team would be fast to want to kick off the Rivers era should things go south. Thus he decided (wisely) to reject the offer. The year before that they franchised him despite having already drafted Rivers.

[yvj]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

They didn’t boot him. The offered him decent starter money to stay but he was worried the team would be fast to want to kick off the Rivers era should things go south. Thus he decided (wisely) to reject their offer. The year before that they franchised him despite having already drafted Rivers.

I apologize for simplifying the story by assuming if SD really really wanted him they would have done what he wanted rather than letting him walk. 

I should be more exact with my reporting. 

[Rhg1084]

Zach Wilson is a stud, plain and simple. It’s sad all of these “fans” can’t see what’s right in front of them. This kid is the most talented QB the Jets have had since Namath

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, yvj said:

I apologize for simplifying the story by assuming if SD really really wanted him they would have done what he wanted rather than letting him walk. 

I should be more exact with my reporting. 

All good, I’ll assume this isn’t sarcasm and thank you for the follow up.

[Biggs]

8 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

#2 overall pick on a guy who can’t complete basic passes within 5 yards of the LOS

After a full offseason of “improvement”, the QB is still dirting what should be simple dumpoffs

The kid throws more Utah bounce passes than John Stockton

Meaningless.  It's early in TC it can be corrected.  If he's short arming dump offs and can light it up on the intermediate and deep balls we don't have to dump off the ball we can hand it off.  

[NIGHT STALKER]

Can we at least wait several regular season games before we get on the Wilson bust train?  I mean, we're in the second day of padded training camp.  

[Darnold's Forehead]

12 hours ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

I'm not praising Darnold to this day. Are you? If Zach's career end up like Darnold's, are you going to keep praising him?

Who are "those people"? You're speaking in generalities and ambiguities. Who are you referring to?

Didn't say you praise Darnold.  I certainly don't.  No I will not praise Zach if he ends up like Darnold?? Unsure where you're going with this.

"Those people" refers to the people you brought up in your earlier response to me: coaches, teammates, analysts, pundits, football brains, etc. who ignore "bad stats" talking points.  That's not generalities and ambiguities, unless your referring to your own post.

12 hours ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

You do not understand me correctly. Period. 

Yah, pretty sure I've made that clear.  This is my 3rd response to you asking/hinting at you to elaborate your responses to me.  You have yet to do so so I don't think you will.  You even took out the part of my response where I admitted I wasn't sure of your point when you quoted me.

12 hours ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

Analysts do not usually sugarcoat players. In fact, in this day and age, the internet is full of more negativity and skepticism than positivity. Players and coaches have a much shorter window than in the past in which to perform and prove.

I understand social media is negative, but I disagree.  When individual players are talked about (specifically not great players), coaches and analysts don't outright bash them (in an effort to not be aholes).  JD spoke lovingly of Darnold even after sucking, calling him a great player, Matt Rhule has done the same thing.  Jamal Adams is the poster child for this.

12 hours ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

Skip any characterizations or ad hominem statements about me. I don't even know what "uppity" mean according to you, but I can assure you I don't fit your critiques, nor would I accept them from you.

I don't know you.  I directed no statements towards your character.  You wrote a list of things I have "said nothing about" and followed it with "keep restating bad stats" as if that is all I do.  I see that as "uppity".  Now you say you would not accept critiques from me (which I have not made), as if I am below you.  Nice.

[Fantasy Island]

12 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

Zach Wilson is a stud, plain and simple. It’s sad all of these “fans” can’t see what’s right in front of them. This kid is the most talented QB the Jets have had since Namath

[Biggs]

My Mother inlaw is going to be very dissapointed if Zach busts.  

[65 Toss Power Trap]

10 hours ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

I wasn't sure of your point when you quoted me.

I understand social media is negative, but I disagree.  When individual players are talked about (specifically not great players), coaches and analysts don't outright bash them (in an effort to not be aholes).  

I don't know you.  I directed no statements towards your character.  You wrote a list of things I have "said nothing about" and followed it with "keep restating bad stats" as if that is all I do.  I see that as "uppity".  Now you say you would not accept critiques from me (which I have not made), as if I am below you.  Nice.

- The point of me quoting you has been very clear--Keep stating Zach's total season stats from last year. I've made it clear that I encourage you to keep beating that drum. Don't stop. 

- We both agree that coaches speak positively of players. But, analysts absolutely outright bash players. Everyone is trying for a "hot take" or to be sensational or "keep it real." Zach has got plenty of doubting and negativity from fans, media, analysts, pundits, wanna-be analysts, etc.

- Now you move from the ad hominem attack of calling me "uppity" to attacking me by claiming that I act as if you are below me. Stop the character attacks. You're 100% wrong both times. Having read your posts on this site, not only would I not accept critiques from you, I would not accept advice from you. Nice avatar though. Super creepy. I assume that's what you were going for.

- But keep pounding the point that Zach's overall stats were bad last year. Look forward to it. 

[GreenFish]

On 8/2/2022 at 10:29 AM, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

What was Drew's time table?

Saleh has stated multiple times that new players need up to 3 years. He says that "it finally clicks" for different players at different time. I assume that unless Zach ends up 32nd this year, or near bottom, in ratings and stats (check with Darnold's Forehead on those stats since he watches those things closely), that Zach is going to have into next year.

Bill Walsh said that you need 25 starts to see what you have in a QB. Once a guy hasn't shown up by 25 starts, then you know what you have. ZW played in 13 games in 2021. If he plays at least 12 games this year, Bill Walsh would say that you know what you have. 

Just a thought - I wonder if in today’s nfl it’s closer to the 3 years Saleh suggest. Walsh coached when practices weren't so restricted. Guys just dont get a lot of reps in practice.

On the flip side, the NFL game is closer to the college game today. Back then, it was very different.

[65 Toss Power Trap]

41 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Just a thought - I wonder if in today’s nfl it’s closer to the 3 years Saleh suggest. Walsh coached when practices weren't so restricted. Guys just dont get a lot of reps in practice.

On the flip side, the NFL game is closer to the college game today. Back then, it was very different.

Good thoughts. Practice is so limiting. I bet it drive coaches nuts. And I bet it frustrates young players who want to get better. 

[Dcat]

On 8/2/2022 at 12:27 PM, NIGHT STALKER said:

Can we at least wait several regular season games before we get on the Wilson bust train?  I mean, we're in the second day of padded training camp.  

Seems to be right on time for this place!   

Yeah....  I've learned not to react to all the training camp tweets unless it's something unique or serious.  The rest is practice. Agame, even a scrimage vs an opponent is what I want to see.