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Team concept first!


Bronx
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The whole organization including fans are ecstatic with the offseason moves and the talent on the roster. This has generated optimism and higher goals going into the season. 

As fans, we are driven by emotions and loyalty. Our tendency is to overprotect "homegrown products" or "draftees" because by nature we feel an attachment and a sense of ownership towards the player. These feelings hinder reality and triggers our defensive mechanism against criticism. 

Moving forward to the most critical position in the NFL. Zach Wilson is a big question at this moment. It is impossible to define his career based on partial playing time. He will be given the opportunity to prove himself worthy. However, at some point in time, objectivity most overcome irrationality and emotions. Management MUST pull the plug and save the team if Zach doesn't pan out. The questions are: when is the right time? What would be the minimum QBR (passing, running, sacks, fumbles, and penalties) to enable a decision? Do you want to give Zach the entire 2022 to develop and prove himself or do we pull the plug early and save the image of the franchise?

I think that it will be detrimental to the team if management focuses strictly on building the QB at all costs, even if it includes flushing away an entire season. Changes must be made if Zach struggles mightily QBR < 50 (please insert objectively) and/or doesn't produce victories during his first 4 games. 

Team concept first!

420 out.

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2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I dont have the answers, I cant predict the future, I have no idea how Zach Wilson will pan out but yes, you absolutely have to give him all of this year IMO and hope he's legit. 

That said, if he doesnt figure out, the good news for Jets fans if they have to move on from Zach is, it will be the first time that new QB would be stepping into an ideal situation.  We wont have to hear about rebuilds and yada yada, they should be primed at that point to just go find a veteran and make a couple of playoff runs.

 

The downfall of the "ride or die" concept is that it will not elevate the reputation of this team hence attracting the bottom tier of free agency. 

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The downfall of the "ride or die" concept is that it will not elevate the reputation of this team hence attracting the bottom tier of free agency. 
.... and a top pick to draft Zach's replacement

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

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Another “pull the plug” on Zach thread started at 7:30am on a Sunday morning.  The disease working early today.

We are about to start the most exciting season in over a decade and 2 of the top 4 threads on this board right now are about moving on from our 23 year old qb who has about 9 starts under his belt.

And Im the one w/ a schtick.  Jets fans………my goodness.

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1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Another “pull the plug” on Zach thread started at 7:30am on a Sunday morning.  The disease working early today.

It was 6:30 am (Caribbean Islands time). Get it right Dr. Oz!

I am almost 100% certain that you were on the Sam Darnold wagon while praising McCoffee. Get real and don't stop baking. 

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1 hour ago, Bronx said:

The downfall of the "ride or die" concept is that it will not elevate the reputation of this team hence attracting the bottom tier of free agency. 

Meh, it's ride or die right now and they had a great offseason signing veteran guys like Tomlinson, Uzomah, Conklin, Whitehead, Reed, Alexender, etc.  IMO the difference this time around is that you could attract and maybe hit lightening in the bottle with a veteran QB who could also inspire some hope.  I think it's reasonable to assume, that say if the Jets landed Jimmy G. as an example, some players might be more amped to give a run with him than Wilson.

 

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3 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Nope

I'll verify this. Joe Dub here was definitely not on board with Macc. I recall some epic rants. The new positivity-uber-alles version is with the current administration. 

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39 minutes ago, freestater said:

I'll verify this. Joe Dub here was definitely not on board with Macc. I recall some epic rants. The new positivity-uber-alles version is with the current administration. 

There is always a rational explanation...

Screenshot_20220731-090502_Chrome.thumb.jpg.ebc1ce2c62e2d8a5a400c9e04aeba697.jpg

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Another “pull the plug” on Zach thread started at 7:30am on a Sunday morning.  The disease working early today.
We are about to start the most exciting season in over a decade and 2 of the top 4 threads on this board right now are about moving on from our 23 year old qb who has about 9 starts under his belt.
And Im the one w/ a schtick.  Jets fans………my goodness.
JW my friend... read the posts bro... most are pro Zach

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

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51 minutes ago, Larz said:

At some point you have to stop the cycle and commit to developing a QB 

I think the QB you start with is way more important than the commitment in the long run. I’m not sure anything we could have done would  have made Geno, Hack  or Sam any better than they turned out. 
 

It does look like this time the front office is at least sticking with the plan and achieving the continuity a young QB needs to succeed. They also seem to be putting resources into the offensive line and improving the skill level of the guys surrounding Zach. But at the end of the day, I think it comes down to the QB they start with. Just seems that way, 

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Just now, slats said:

I think a lot of the reasons (read: excuses) for a lot of Zach’s failures last year are valid, but that this year he really needs to show some significant improvement. I’ve been complaining about the weapons since Sanchez, at least. These guys have really gone out of their way to genuinely bolster the entire offense around Wilson. The only knock on the talent is their youth. That’s it. He needs to perform. 
 
I don’t have an answer for how bad he’ll have to be for how long for them to end the experiment. Hopefully we won’t find out because my guess is longer than the majority of us would like. 
 
I’m also of the opinion that if he doesn’t work out they bring in a veteran to either push or replace him. I don’t see another QB drafted high too soon. And I don’t want to. 

Zach was fast on processing when he was throwing out routes and against Zone.   Slow against the other stuff.

He needs to look like a fast processor against more looks and out of more plays. Based on the crappy side views of a handful of plays, I think he is.  
 

Even if he’s making more mistakes to start the season but moving quicker, he will be fine.  

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1 hour ago, Bronx said:

The downfall of the "ride or die" concept is that it will not elevate the reputation of this team hence attracting the bottom tier of free agency. 

Really?  You think the team becomes more attractive to FA if that team is impatient, dumps out of a QB selected 2nd overall in a draft and in less than 2 seasons?  That’s the kind of team management wants to project to FA’s?  Let’s remember, 95% of the time FAs are FAs because they want to be paid and go where the money is, not to a team because they couldn’t show patience with their QBs development.
This is all pointless, there pretty much no chance on earth Zach doesn’t get this year and if he shows anything next year also to prove himself.   He’s not getting dumped because you don’t like him 

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If you want long term success, there has to be a framework and a process for developing a WHOLE TEAM. Yes, QB is important, a lot is riding on Zack, et. al., but the underlying fact, IMHO, is that a team will only be a consistent winner as long as you don't have to do these total rebuilds everywhere on the roster every four or five years.

This includes coaching and front office. If you are constantly changing those as well, there is always the one year period of implementing new systems, on and off the field, and you can just about write off the playoffs in the year you make a major change. 

We will be a long term competitor when we have comparatively few points of failure/weakness to correct each off season, not a basket full. Even teams with so-so QB's can make the playoffs with a strong supporting cast. I want more than just a playoff berth, but I don't want to be the Marino led Phish who never got anywhere in the end. Give me a team I can root for year in and year out. It's better to tinker with a balanced roster than it is to clean house in a fit of juvenile pique, although the latter brings short term satisfaction, and is simpler to do. 

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14 minutes ago, Bungaman said:

We will be a long term competitor when we have comparatively few points of failure/weakness to correct each off season, not a basket full. Even teams with so-so QB's can make the playoffs with a strong supporting cast. I want more than just a playoff berth, but I don't want to be the Marino led Phish who never got anywhere in the end. Give me a team I can root for year in and year out. It's better to tinker with a balanced roster than it is to clean house in a fit of juvenile pique, although the latter brings short term satisfaction, and is simpler to do. 

I hope this offseason has a few manageable holes.  
 

Maybe just need to draft a kicker in the 1st and 2nd rounds.  

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I believe we have a solid roster.  If we had an average (15-16 rated) QB we'd be a post season lock.  Is Zack that guy or will he be that guy, who the heck knows.  All I can say is that if he is not approaching that by mid season then it's time to start rethinking. 

 

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Its an interesting question- how long you go with a guy in who you invested draft capital and hasnt performed to expectations.

I dont know how Joe D and management view this but I d expect it would depend on how poor his performance is and how hopeless he looks.

if he shows no improvement or regression despite the talent influx, and the Jets enter the final 4-5 games with 4 wins or less, Id probably start Mike White and see how he runs the offense.   If he does well, Id let him compete with Wilson and either a vet or draft pick next year.

If he shows improvement but continues making mistakes that impact the record, Id let him finish the year and bring in a vet to push him and let who ever looks best play next year.

If he plays like a top 10-15 qb then enjoy the ride and expect further improvement going forward.

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We have a top 10 backup in Flacco. If Zach fizzles out, and I think there is a chance this happens, Flacco must come in and work to save the season. 
 

If we are going Darnold 2.0 approach in you must give a qb 3 full seasons ignoring all the warning signs you do so at your own risk and then JD wouldn’t be the genius we like to paint him as. 
 

There are 52 other players on the roster and a fan base to consider 

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1 hour ago, slats said:

I’m also of the opinion that if he doesn’t work out they bring in a veteran to either push or replace him. I don’t see another QB drafted high too soon. And I don’t want to.

Agreed. If Zach isn’t the answer, I think our offense is designed to succeed with smart veteran qb play. Moreover hard to see us picking in the top 5 again. 

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2 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

We have a top 10 backup in Flacco. If Zach fizzles out, and I think there is a chance this happens, Flacco must come in and work to save the season. 
 

If we are going Darnold 2.0 approach in you must give a qb 3 full seasons ignoring all the warning signs you do so at your own risk and then JD wouldn’t be the genius we like to paint him as. 
 

There are 52 other players on the roster and a fan base to consider 

Define save the season?  If Zach sucks enough to cause you to go with Flacco there isn’t a thing Flacco would be able to do to save the season, it would be over.  This season with Zach and a roster this young and inexperienced is about growth not playoffs or some arbitrary win total 
 

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1 hour ago, slats said:

I think a lot of the reasons (read: excuses) for a lot of Zach’s failures last year are valid, but that this year he really needs to show some significant improvement. I’ve been complaining about the weapons since Sanchez, at least. These guys have really gone out of their way to genuinely bolster the entire offense around Wilson. The only knock on the talent is their youth. That’s it. He needs to perform. 
 
I don’t have an answer for how bad he’ll have to be for how long for them to end the experiment. Hopefully we won’t find out because my guess is longer than the majority of us would like. 
 
I’m also of the opinion that if he doesn’t work out they bring in a veteran to either push or replace him. I don’t see another QB drafted high too soon. And I don’t want to. 

Sure but the good news is, this year, the only rookies that should see time are a RB (which really doesnt have a learning curve) and a WR, who the Jets can fortunately bring along if necessary.  The rest of offense is pretty seasoned, the OL, the TE's, Davis/Berrios and Moore in 2nd year.  It's a much better balance this year, IMO.  

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37 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Sure but the good news is, this year, the only rookies that should see time are a RB (which really doesnt have a learning curve) and a WR, who the Jets can fortunately bring along if necessary.  The rest of offense is pretty seasoned, the OL, the TE's, Davis/Berrios and Moore in 2nd year.  It's a much better balance this year, IMO.  

I would add our OC to the list as well. He's not a rook anymore, and he really got tons better toward the end of last year. I think that will be huge this season.

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2 hours ago, Bronx said:

Judas Iscariote!

 

48 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Wait, Judas was Italian?


If you're part of a crew, nobody ever tells you that they're going to kill you, doesn't happen that way. There weren't any arguments or curses like in the movies.  See, your murderers come with smiles, they come as your friends, the people who've cared for you all of your life. And they always seem to come at a time that you're at your weakest and most in need of their help.

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