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Can Zach achieve a level of consistency?


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4 hours ago, Legend Killa7 said:

I 100% do NOT get the “divide” on Zach. If he’s playing like crap in November, fine. Talk away. But now? Before he’s even played one game with all these new players, and returning players? Crazy. He’s our QB. OUR QB…..


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I have one problem with Zach at this stage in camp. Its not very encouraging when he is inaccurate with no pressure and no pads in fact its disturbing . If a QB struggles in this capacity in camp what happens when the pressure is dialed up ?

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10 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I have one problem with Zach at this stage in camp. Its not very encouraging when he is inaccurate with no pressure and no pads in fact its disturbing . If a QB struggles in this capacity in camp what happens when the pressure is dialed up ?

When has he been inaccurate in camp?  Most of his notable incompletion have come when the edges are busting past Conor McD and he's had pressure.  He's been very accurate when there's no rush or in 7 on 7. 

 

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3 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

I see him improving but I struggle to convince myself he will ever be consistent. 

I believe he will, it will just take some time.  He's a film rat and extremely dedicated.  That's half the battle. 

 

This offense is going to be a power running team and Zach will feast on easy throws off play action.

Think of Goff when he got McVay. 

Hopefully, after another year or two in the league he can develop into a guy that runs the show and doesn't need the power running game to spearhead his success. 

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We'll see. He has all of the talent one would need to be great, but needs to click mentally. The fact that he made that pro day throw to Moore and then was reported as dirting a 5 yard pass on the same day is illustrative of the reality we face. 

With his talent he can be amazing, but he's far far from it and if he can't fix this short pass thing it ain't happening. 

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I think his issues have to with his age.  At the end of the day he is still a young kid.  His problems are not ability just lapse in concentration and what 21 year old doesn't have that.  Who knows what will happen he has a mountain of pressure on him that would crack everyone on this board.  I really, really, really want him to succeed only time will tell and I have no clue what is going to happen.

The BS in the daily tweets are just that... BS we will not truly know until we see him under fire in Baltimore.  The media will milk this uncertainty until the very end. (and some on this board will do the same)

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My observations:

Zach obviously has an abundance of physical talent, both arms/legs.  Quick release, cannon for an arm and legs that can get him out of trouble and punish opponents.

He is a natural attacking the defense and playing a backyard ‘off platform’ style.  A gunslinger who can make several big plays per game (in pocket or out) without any restrictions placed on him.

Very analytical which can cause slow processing early in a new system until he masters it and starts playing on instinct rather than brain.  In my opinion, this weakness has the potential to turn into a strength.

Someone who wants to be great and who lives football.  Any failures will not be due to a lack of desire.  However, the perfectionist in him leads to overthinking and exacerbates the issue directly above.

No accuracy issues noted in his college scouting reports, especially his senior year.  For whatever reason, there seems to be a mental block on the easier throws.  This continues to be a major concern because it’s mental, not physical..  And the one thing that stands out as potentially nagging, not developmental like the processing above.

If this is Yips or Yips light, then this can lead to failure.

If not and he overcomes missing the easiest throws, then I see a potentially dominant franchise QB by year 3, after he masters the offense and starts to play on natural instincts.

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1 hour ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

I believe he will, it will just take some time.  He's a film rat and extremely dedicated.  That's half the battle. 

 

This offense is going to be a power running team and Zach will feast on easy throws off play action.

Think of Goff when he got McVay. 

Hopefully, after another year or two in the league he can develop into a guy that runs the show and doesn't need the power running game to spearhead his success. 

I’m glad you believe he will Jimmy and I love you for thar. I promise to the second I can, unless eating, then I’ll get to it later, much later. 
 

Ok, I’ll think that fair. 
 

Id be happy to see him in top half of the league not batter what our offense looks like to get him there this year. One spot ahead of Mac Jones  please! 

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2 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

A young QB is inconsistent early in his career?  What a revelation!  Who would have thought.  Let's discuss Wilson's consistency after the 2023 season.  We will know what he is at that point.  If you can't wait for that, root for another team that is streaming second rate retread QBs from the trash heap, like Washington or Indy.  Because that is the alternative to drafting a QB early and seeing if he develops.

Could you please provide a list of approved topics?  Obviously the QB is out.  Please advise…

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2 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

I have one problem with Zach at this stage in camp. Its not very encouraging when he is inaccurate with no pressure and no pads in fact its disturbing . If a QB struggles in this capacity in camp what happens when the pressure is dialed up ?

How many of his passes have been disturbingly in accurate?

I used to go to camp every year and watched countless missed passes.  Never did it bring out the complaints that some keep posting over.  
It’s as bad as the assumption that what he’s doing in a leisurely practice just has to be amplified in games.  
He skipped passes early on a year ago, happens when you aim the ball, trying to be perfect.  After he was injured it was over with.  QBs miss passes, not only long passes, short passes too.  Happens.  We only hear about Zach because of the early misses by a kid who was one of the most accurate passers in the history of college ball his last season at BYU

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2 hours ago, The Crusher said:

I see him improving but I struggle to convince myself he will ever be consistent. 

Meh... bunch of snake bitten guys living in the past. 

Plus you're really crushing my dreams of 1-2-3 years down the road... my jackass pats brother in law says .. man we would have beat you if it weren't for xyz...

And I reply... sh1t you got pounded worse than that one time "jack hammer Wilson" got to that MILF...

Living the dream guys... living the dream! 

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2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

How many of his passes have been disturbingly in accurate?

I used to go to camp every year and watched countless missed passes.  Never did it bring out the complaints that some keep posting over.  
It’s as bad as the assumption that what he’s doing in a leisurely practice just has to be amplified in games.  
He skipped passes early on a year ago, happens when you aim the ball, trying to be perfect.  After he was injured it was over with.  QBs miss passes, not only long passes, short passes too.  Happens.  We only hear about Zach because of the early misses by a kid who was one of the most accurate passers in the history of college ball his last season at BYU

Its not how much a single pass or passes are inaccurate its the percentage that fall incomplete in drills while wearing shorts with no pressure that bothers me. I keep reading people tweeting Zach has been missing the mark more often than not and quite frankly its the same sh*t we heard with Sanchez, Geno, and Darnold . At some point this has to bother people and yes it makes you wonder if he can't get it there consistently with no pressure in shorts how does he get it there with pressure and pads ?

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2 hours ago, ZachEY said:

Could you please provide a list of approved topics?  Obviously the QB is out.  Please advise…

Every young QB is inconsistent.  To have a thread talking about how Wilson is inconsistent is similar to having a thread about how water is wet.  To expect him to be consistent in practice tomorrow or by September or by the end of the season is unrealistic.  Hell, Mahomes was incredibly inconsistent last season. He was inconsistent in the playoff game vs Cincinnati when he was great in the first half and terrible in the 2nd half.  The discussion should be more about whether he improves in general this season.  There are posters on this board who will want to move on if he bounces a pass tomorrow morning.  And others who will want to move on if he has a bad preseason game or a bad game in September.  He is going to have bad throws, bad quarters, and bad games.  If he improves from terrible to somewhere in the neighborhood of average in 2022, he gets another season.  Then he needs to get better in year 3,  The Jets are heavily invested in him and he will get another 1-2 years to prove he deserves a 2nd contract so long as he doesn't crap the bed in 2022.  

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12 hours ago, Legend Killa7 said:

I 100% do NOT get the “divide” on Zach. If he’s playing like crap in November, fine. Talk away. But now? Before he’s even played one game with all these new players, and returning players? Crazy. He’s our QB. OUR QB…..


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I disagree. There are many who have already written him off as a bust. 

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5 hours ago, ZachEY said:

Could you please provide a list of approved topics?  Obviously the QB is out.  Please advise…

Milfs 

Milf hunters 

Breece Hall

where is SAR

dolphags suck 

sauce 

espn says the jets suck 

Becton thread (but only his weight and tweets) 

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8 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Every young QB is inconsistent.  To have a thread talking about how Wilson is inconsistent is similar to having a thread about how water is wet.  To expect him to be consistent in practice tomorrow or by September or by the end of the season is unrealistic.  Hell, Mahomes was incredibly inconsistent last season. He was inconsistent in the playoff game vs Cincinnati when he was great in the first half and terrible in the 2nd half.  The discussion should be more about whether he improves in general this season.  There are posters on this board who will want to move on if he bounces a pass tomorrow morning.  And others who will want to move on if he has a bad preseason game or a bad game in September.  He is going to have bad throws, bad quarters, and bad games.  If he improves from terrible to somewhere in the neighborhood of average in 2022, he gets another season.  Then he needs to get better in year 3,  The Jets are heavily invested in him and he will get another 1-2 years to prove he deserves a 2nd contract so long as he doesn't crap the bed in 2022.  

Still hoping you might answer the question.

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11 hours ago, PorP said:

Meh... bunch of snake bitten guys living in the past. 

Plus you're really crushing my dreams of 1-2-3 years down the road... my jackass pats brother in law says .. man we would have beat you if it weren't for xyz...

And I reply... sh1t you got pounded worse than that one time "jack hammer Wilson" got to that MILF...

Living the dream guys... living the dream! 

It’s not the past until it stops happening. 

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14 hours ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

When has he been inaccurate in camp?  Most of his notable incompletion have come when the edges are busting past Conor McD and he's had pressure.  He's been very accurate when there's no rush or in 7 on 7. 

 

This is correct.

People continue to just paint narratives that really don't exist - or ones they want to see.  

Moreover, they're almost entirely based on tweets from reporters - with very little video evidence.  In fact, with all the videos I've seen here or on twitter - not a single one shows ZW missing a receiver (a couple on incompletions on covered guys - but no "misses")

Now I'm sure there are misses but little reason to believe he's regularly inaccurate with no pressure.

Now, I must admit the thought it worries me - as he did do a lot of that early last year, it was ugly for a while - but he did seem to fix it late in the season.

Who the F knows!!!!  But let's at least try and not make stuff up.

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9 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Its not how much a single pass or passes are inaccurate its the percentage that fall incomplete in drills while wearing shorts with no pressure that bothers me. I keep reading people tweeting Zach has been missing the mark more often than not and quite frankly its the same sh*t we heard with Sanchez, Geno, and Darnold . At some point this has to bother people and yes it makes you wonder if he can't get it there consistently with no pressure in shorts how does he get it there with pressure and pads ?

In fairness, I haven’t heard too much about misses unless it was accompanied by “had pressure” or “beat becton and would have sacked the QB”

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13 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

My observations:

Zach obviously has an abundance of physical talent, both arms/legs.  Quick release, cannon for an arm and legs that can get him out of trouble and punish opponents.

He is a natural attacking the defense and playing a backyard ‘off platform’ style.  A gunslinger who can make several big plays per game (in pocket or out) without any restrictions placed on him.

Very analytical which can cause slow processing early in a new system until he masters it and starts playing on instinct rather than brain.  In my opinion, this weakness has the potential to turn into a strength.

Someone who wants to be great and who lives football.  Any failures will not be due to a lack of desire.  However, the perfectionist in him leads to overthinking and exacerbates the issue directly above.

No accuracy issues noted in his college scouting reports, especially his senior year.  For whatever reason, there seems to be a mental block on the easier throws.  This continues to be a major concern because it’s mental, not physical..  And the one thing that stands out as potentially nagging, not developmental like the processing above.

If this is Yips or Yips light, then this can lead to failure.

If not and he overcomes missing the easiest throws, then I see a potentially dominant franchise QB by year 3, after he masters the offense and starts to play on natural instincts.

Well said. That was one of my original points as well, that I think his development curve will be longer than most (similar to BYU experience). 

Curious if anyone way smarter than me looked at his mechanics. NFL teams are always trying to change a rookie’s mechanics for one reason or another. Does anyone notice anything different, especially on the shorter routes, in how he throws?

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10 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Its not how much a single pass or passes are inaccurate its the percentage that fall incomplete in drills while wearing shorts with no pressure that bothers me. I keep reading people tweeting Zach has been missing the mark more often than not and quite frankly its the same sh*t we heard with Sanchez, Geno, and Darnold . At some point this has to bother people and yes it makes you wonder if he can't get it there consistently with no pressure in shorts how does he get it there with pressure and pads ?

I don’t know where you keep reading that ZW is missing the mark more often than not as opposed to he has passes that have been incomplete.  Sure some have been bad, some are dropped passes and most have come while under extreme duress.  It’s practice, lots of things go wrong, especially when starters and backups are interchanged.  I don’t know where you’re getting the he had no pressure part of all of this, he’s been under pressure on just about every play, seems to have had to get out of the pocket on every pass.  
Practice, that’s how they go. Backup OL and backup WRs getting extra snaps.  He had a good one yesterday, let’s see him gear up towards the regular season and at some point string together more good days than bad.  Season isn’t going to suck because of a bunch of incompletions in July 

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Its not how much a single pass or passes are inaccurate its the percentage that fall incomplete in drills while wearing shorts with no pressure that bothers me. I keep reading people tweeting Zach has been missing the mark more often than not and quite frankly its the same sh*t we heard with Sanchez, Geno, and Darnold . At some point this has to bother people and yes it makes you wonder if he can't get it there consistently with no pressure in shorts how does he get it there with pressure and pads ?
Sont know where y are getting your info... sa far ... seen mostly good Zach... one or two bad short passes

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Good - fair and accurate article.

 

 

https://nypost.com/2022/08/02/jets-fans-need-to-be-patient-with-zach-wilson/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site buttons&utm_campaign=site buttons

 

Jets fans need to be patient with Zach Wilson

By 

Steve Serby

August 2, 2022 10:13pm 

 

The pass was over the middle and it fell at the feet of Garrett Wilson.

“C’mon, Zach!” a fan shouted from the bleachers.

That is Zach Wilson’s world — each and every pass examined and evaluated whether it is the second day of August or the first day of the start of his second season and beyond.

The kid had a decent day Tuesday, following some “C’mon Zach” moments on preceding days, and understandably patience is less of a virtue for long-suffering Jets fans after their latest Chosen One endured his rookie growing pains.

But, “C’mon, Jets fans! Just chill, baby.”

You’re a masochist if you start pulling your hair out this long before the Sept. 11 regular-season opener.

That’s when we’ll truly begin learning whether the progress the Jets insist Wilson is continuing to make is more than wishful thinking.

I get it: When your franchise quarterback is drafted second overall, when your franchise won its only Super Bowl on Jan. 12. 1969, you have every right to expect Wilson to be special, and granted, there have only been flickers and flashes of special lighting up his second training camp.

BREAKING: There exists film of a young Tom Brady being intercepted during training camp, and hearing a “C’mon, Tom!” from Patriots fans, and probably from Bill Belichick as well.

Wilson came out of BYU with high expectations for himself, and nothing has changed.

“Whether you hit them or not, I think you always gotta strive to be better and to challenge yourself and to always want to be the best,” Wilson said. “Practice has always been frustrating ’cause I feel like I can go out there and be perfect on every play which is unrealistic, nobody’s gonna do that. … I think that’s why football’s so exciting and so challenging is because you always have something you want to get better at.”

A “C’mon, Zach!” moment surfaced when he threw wide on a gimme over the middle for C.J. Uzomah. And on the final play of practice, when he ate the ball in the face of a blitz fourth-and-5 from the 5 and never targeted his tight end. C’mon, Zach!

“I want to be able to just to stick it on him there,” Wilson said. “Hopefully he falls in the end zone. But that’s why we ran the play, it was for that exact reason, so I’m excited to try and learn from that one.”

So much still to learn. So little time. But still time.

“I think every little bit of every area I gotta just improve at just being an NFL quarterback,” Wilson said. “Whether that’s being an accurate passer within the pocket, getting the ball out of my hands quickly to our playmakers, or improvising and going off schedule, and making an easy play, whether that’s running it for 5 or just dishing off to a checkdown for 5 yards.”

A smiling Zach Wilson stretches during Jets practice.

Bill Kostroun

Everyone in Jets camp agrees that Wilson has greater command of the offense and the huddle, and is a more vocal leader.

“You kind of look at it as, ‘How was that play in general? Did you make the right decision on each play?’ ” Wilson said. “That’s kind of how we judge it in the quarterback room, I think that’s the best way to do. We’re just trying to improve each and every play.”

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The arm talent and improvisational gifts have been on display from Day 1, but of course Raiders bust JaMarcus Russell had arm talent, too.

“I’m just trying to improve each day and feel like every day I’ve learned a bunch,” Wilson said, “and I think we’re getting better as a unit, so I’m excited about it.”

He burns to be great. The Jets believe he is made of the right stuff. New York doesn’t scare him.

“I just don’t have the social media on my phone,” Wilson said. “I want to be locked into what’s going on in our field and in our meeting rooms. … Even parents sometimes can be a distraction.”

He has a good head on his shoulders. Let him breathe. Let him grow.

5

What do you think? Post a comment.

“He’s getting better,” head coach Robert Saleh said.

In the heat of summer, “C’mon, Jets fans! Just chill, baby.”

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ALSO, how many games were these dirt balls an issue?  He was ok after coming back from his injury.  So what was it the 1st 5.5 games then he cleaned it up in the 6 games he was back.  QBs will bounce an occasional pass, they all do.   Especially young ones.  Consistency in their mechanics and patience cures it, why I think the numbers changed after sitting 5 weeks and over the last part of the season

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12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

ALSO, how many games were these dirt balls an issue?  He was ok after coming back from his injury.  So what was it the 1st 5.5 games then he cleaned it up in the 6 games he was back.  QBs will bounce an occasional pass, they all do.   Especially young ones.  Consistency in their mechanics and patience cures it, why I think the numbers changed after sitting 5 weeks and over the last part of the season

He started bouncing the short passes around week 3.  Then he cleaned it up the last few weeks of the season.  
He was getting hammered in the Panther  game and it sped him up.  He adjusted. 

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14 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

My observations:

Zach obviously has an abundance of physical talent, both arms/legs.  Quick release, cannon for an arm and legs that can get him out of trouble and punish opponents.

He is a natural attacking the defense and playing a backyard ‘off platform’ style.  A gunslinger who can make several big plays per game (in pocket or out) without any restrictions placed on him.

Very analytical which can cause slow processing early in a new system until he masters it and starts playing on instinct rather than brain.  In my opinion, this weakness has the potential to turn into a strength.

Someone who wants to be great and who lives football.  Any failures will not be due to a lack of desire.  However, the perfectionist in him leads to overthinking and exacerbates the issue directly above.

No accuracy issues noted in his college scouting reports, especially his senior year.  For whatever reason, there seems to be a mental block on the easier throws.  This continues to be a major concern because it’s mental, not physical..  And the one thing that stands out as potentially nagging, not developmental like the processing above.

If this is Yips or Yips light, then this can lead to failure.

If not and he overcomes missing the easiest throws, then I see a potentially dominant franchise QB by year 3, after he masters the offense and starts to play on natural instincts.

Really good post, agree with all of it. 
 
Imo, Zach has everything you need from a QB physically and intellectually. Thing is, though, that I could’ve said the exact same things about Geno. Being good in the classroom =/= being good on the field. It’s about the speed of that processor in real time. 
 
The mental/psychological aspect is where he really has to settle in. By all accounts, he’s more confident and is taking on more a leadership role. He needs to do that and be comfortable in it, just as he needs to get completely comfortable in the offense. Everything wrong with his game last year could be attributed to the mental side of it. Can’t have a return of those yips, and when he bounces a pass to a RB in practice, it’s ****ing triggering. He needs to be able to rely on those easy throws, and that’s been a psychological hurdle for him. 
 
I do think practicing against this defense is going to help him, though. This defense is going to consistently get after the passer and cover the WRs. They should help force him to get that internal clock up to speed. Consistency is a critical component here. It’s what often separates the great from the good and bad QBs. If he can get consistent with the physical tools that he possesses, he really can be very good. Obviously that’s the if. 

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16 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

He started bouncing the short passes around week 3.  Then he cleaned it up the last few weeks of the season.  
He was getting hammered in the Panther  game and it sped him up.  He adjusted. 

He cleaned it up but they were still there in the final few games of the season and every day in camp there are reports of at least one. I think its ridiculous for anyone to write him off at this point but do think its fair for people to have some concerns about the kid. The maddening element of Zach is that he makes the difficult look easy and the easy look difficult. It drives you crazy that the throws he struggles with are the easiest ones, the coaching staff will never say so publicly but behind closed doors you know they are questioning how he can possibly miss them. 

Playing well in camp does not in any way guarantee that you play well when the lights come on, every top QB plays well in camp but so do a bunch of bums who can't hack it in the reg season. Conversely, you'd struggle to find the example/s of QBs who play poorly in camp and then turn it on come week 1. By no means do I think Zach has a bad camp but to me in order for him to have a chance at taking the step we all want this season, he needs to be playing better than he has. OR we go spinzone and say the defense is the second coming of the '85 bears!

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2 hours ago, The Crusher said:

It’s not the past until it stops happening. 

And you don't know it hasn't already.  None  of us will until 9/11 and the weeks that follow. 

 

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1 hour ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

He started bouncing the short passes around week 3.  Then he cleaned it up the last few weeks of the season.  
He was getting hammered in the Panther  game and it sped him up.  He adjusted. 

Agree, game 3 sounds right.  He went out in week 6 so 2.5-w games, sat out 5 games so played another 6 we’re missed short passes weren’t the problem

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2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I don’t know where you keep reading that ZW is missing the mark more often than not as opposed to he has passes that have been incomplete.  Sure some have been bad, some are dropped passes and most have come while under extreme duress.  It’s practice, lots of things go wrong, especially when starters and backups are interchanged.  I don’t know where you’re getting the he had no pressure part of all of this, he’s been under pressure on just about every play, seems to have had to get out of the pocket on every pass.  
Practice, that’s how they go. Backup OL and backup WRs getting extra snaps.  He had a good one yesterday, let’s see him gear up towards the regular season and at some point string together more good days than bad.  Season isn’t going to suck because of a bunch of incompletions in July 

I read it in the tweets from camp all the time it was happening before training camp and then again when training camp started . Its all we can go by and if people are tweeting that Zach's passes have not been accurate ahead and behind WR's to me thats a concern . Sorry but we have been down this road before and I do not think our QB should be struggling in shorts with no pads and no pressure.

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