GreenFish Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 I think Zach’s short game issue was due to processing and not his ability to throw the ball to a spot. He didnt have accuracy issues in college or in Preseason last year. The issues came when bullets started flying. If he can read the field better, he wont second guess himself. Once the game slows down for him, we’ll see the accuracy come back. He seemed a little more composed at the end of the year. A sign that it was more of a processing issue. Hard to be accurate if you have no idea where to throw it to and are not sure what you’re seeing. Josh Allen for example, had issues hitting his target and needed to learn how to hit his target. Zach’s issue is different. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 4 hours ago, slats said: No, both QBs were accurate on passes < 9 yards in the games being discussed here. The difference is that Zach was forced to throw all those passes to his slot and RB because he had no capable healthy outside WRs down the stretch. White threw short because that’s what he’s capable of doing. I mean, this thread is strictly about the short passing game. Zach improved there as the season wore on. I doubt his short passing accuracy would’ve taken a hit because he had the opportunity to throw downfield more. If anything, the lack of outside receivers created a larger sample size of Zach being able to hit those short passes that he should be able to hit. As I stated earlier in the thread, Zach was never awful at throwing short: (89 passer rating!). His problem was that he throws short a lot, so missing the layups got magnified. He was dead last in net yards per pass attempts before he lost all his outside receivers, and he finished last in that category. What changed for him was that LaFleur reduced his pass attempts in three of the last four games: 22 against Miami, 23 against the Jags, 33 against the Bucs, and 20 against the Bills. Combine the usage of Berrios with the limiting of total attempts, and the fact that Zach wasn’t terrible throwing underneath to begin with, and you get a brief spike in his efficiency over the last four. We can say he “improved,” but we also saw the last four games with our own eyes—very encouraging vs the Bucs, decent against the Fish, but an abomination vs a tanking Jags team and a predictable wipeout vs a sleepwalking Bills team. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 4 minutes ago, T0mShane said: As I stated earlier in the thread, Zach was never awful at throwing short: (89 passer rating!). His problem was that he throws short a lot, so missing the layups got magnified. He was dead last in net yards per pass attempts before he lost all his outside receivers, and he finished last in that category. What changed for him was that LaFleur reduced his pass attempts in three of the last four games: 22 against Miami, 23 against the Jags, 33 against the Bucs, and 20 against the Bills. Combine the usage of Berrios with the limiting of total attempts, and the fact that Zach wasn’t terrible throwing underneath to begin with, and you get a brief spike in his efficiency over the last four. We can say he “improved,” but we also saw the last four games with our own eyes—very encouraging vs the Bucs, decent against the Fish, but an abomination vs a tanking Jags team and a predictable wipeout vs a sleepwalking Bills team. Wut? mike white is the dink and dunker. are you really this ignorant or is that part of the trolling? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 7 minutes ago, Larz said: Wut? mike white is the dink and dunker. are you really this ignorant or is that part of the trolling? Good post, Larz. Bristling with juicy info. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 17 hours ago, T0mShane said: Should be noted that Keelan Cole is currently slated to start at WR2 opposite Davante Adams in Las Vegas and Derek Carr apparently loves him already Is he really # 2 on the depth chart? Loved him in small doses last year. Once he got an extended look he was exposed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 15 hours ago, T0mShane said: We can say he “improved,” but we also saw the last four games with our own eyes—very encouraging vs the Bucs, decent against the Fish, but an abomination vs a tanking Jags team and a predictable wipeout vs a sleepwalking Bills team. I’d say there’s maybe more than a little spin in this description. Jacksonville wanted that win and drove all the way to the one yard line before being stopped on downs with less than two minutes left in the game. Zach was hardly productive, but he was efficient completing 64% of his passes with a TD and no turnovers. Just as the Bills weren’t anywhere near close to sleepwalking, they didn’t lock up the division until the beat the Jets that day. I’m certainly not arguing that Zach was good at any point last year, just that as he was getting a little better his surrounding cast was falling apart. In that Buffalo game, for instance, he wasn’t just down weapons, he was down protectors. McDermott and Feeney each played 100% of the snaps that afternoon while he tried to get the ball to Tarik Black against the league’s #1 defense. You’re right when you say LaFluer dialed it back. In retrospect, they made a mistake not retaining and starting Flacco to start the season while the OL and offense got up to speed in the new system. I think the end of last year they definitely just wanted to settle him in. His performances do not jump off the page statistically, but he was calmer, the yips seemed to be gone, and the bounce passes were done. He still needs to improve a great deal from where he left off last season. I get the distinct impression that they understand all of this, which is why they’ve swaddled him in an offense this year that could run just about on auto-pilot. He needs to keep executing the offense as designed, take what the defense gives him (as he learned watching your boy), but also take those shots downfield when they’re there. Believe me when I tell you that I’m quite skeptical of Zach. I have no idea how it’s gonna turn out. But I’m looking forward to seeing what he does in this offense in everyone’s second year. 2 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptable Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 It seems funny that the longer term narrative with most long term Jet fans and National Media is how good can this team be if Zach Wilson is a competent QB... Not great an average NFL starter. That is his ceiling at the moment with most people. I know the Jets have had rough years at this position but when that is the only narrative going that he is either a bust or average it leaves out a very important outcome that can also happen. ZW can become a superstar (Burrow, Allen, Herbert). He shows flashes and yes he needs to be consistent but if for whatever reason he takes a giant leap like he did at BYU in his 2nd and 3rd years, we are not talking maybe playoffs. We are talking Superbowls. I got it that there are a lot of you that dismiss this and write it in stone that its not possible but there is precedence here with how long it took him to figure out the system at BYU, and why it seems he only flashed in his final year there. I think that a lot of people are going to be very surprised when the team ends the year at how good Zach actually is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 19 minutes ago, slats said: Believe me when I tell you that I’m quite skeptical of Zach. Jeez, this board is just FILLED with haters, isn't it. Hate for Zach Wilson everywhere. You must be a miserable sad unhappy person, why do you even bother posting on a Jets site if you hate the Jets QB? Jeez, troll. Just wants to be right on the internet more than see our QB succeed. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 On 8/3/2022 at 11:01 PM, HighPitch said: Omg what difference does the context in this case have to do with this? bottom line is as a rookie he vastly improved on the short game in the later games. cant you vultures just ever accept something nice? To be fair vultures prefer things dead and rotting, not nice at all, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggs Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 10 minutes ago, Skeptable said: It seems funny that the longer term narrative with most long term Jet fans and National Media is how good can this team be if Zach Wilson is a competent QB... Not great an average NFL starter. That is his ceiling at the moment with most people. I know the Jets have had rough years at this position but when that is the only narrative going that he is either a bust or average it leaves out a very important outcome that can also happen. ZW can become a superstar (Burrow, Allen, Herbert). He shows flashes and yes he needs to be consistent but if for whatever reason he takes a giant leap like he did at BYU in his 2nd and 3rd years, we are not talking maybe playoffs. We are talking Superbowls. I got it that there are a lot of you that dismiss this and write it in stone that its not possible but there is precedence here with how long it took him to figure out the system at BYU, and why it seems he only flashed in his final year there. I think that a lot of people are going to be very surprised when the team ends the year at how good Zach actually is. Agree with all of this despite the fact that he absulutely sucked last year. Why people need to defend his piss poor play as a rookie on a bad team with a rookie HC and OC who at times looked as unprepared as Zach is really getting tiring. It's not pro-Zach to talk about how good he was last year in certain aspects at certain times. It's simply pointing out that overall he really sucked but here's a straw to go with that glass of piss. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptable Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Biggs said: Agree with all of this despite the fact that he absulutely sucked last year. Why people need to defend his piss poor play as a rookie on a bad team with a rookie HC and OC who at times looked as unprepared as Zach is really getting tiring. It's not pro-Zach to talk about how good he was last year in certain aspects at certain times. It's simply pointing out that overall he really sucked but here's a straw to go with that glass of piss. Agreed he looked Awful.... Overwhelmed.. taking on too much as a rookie QB... The OC looked overmatched, the DC looked like he was taping together LBs and Safeties to help him do anything to stop screen passes and outside runs. The HC made quite a few blunders managing games. Its not impossible to think they all grow together and get better in their 2nd year. They can all make a giant leap at the same time. It is allowed. And maybe, just maybe ZW makes the BYU jump into superstardom that NY has been dying for. If he becomes a superstar... then 10-7 is the floor not the ceiling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoni Beast Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 Wilson never should have started at the beginning of the season. LaFleur never should have overloaded Wilson and should have kept things simple early on. Having said all that throwing easy layup passes into the grass is the stuff of Hackenberg. The yips are real...I don't know that's a big concern. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 49 minutes ago, Warfish said: Jeez, this board is just FILLED with haters, isn't it. Hate for Zach Wilson everywhere. You must be a miserable sad unhappy person, why do you even bother posting on a Jets site if you hate the Jets QB? Jeez, troll. Just wants to be right on the internet more than see our QB succeed. Want you to know that I was completely blindsided by this reply. Just never saw it coming. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy 2 Times Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 9 hours ago, Maxman said: Is he really # 2 on the depth chart? Loved him in small doses last year. Once he got an extended look he was exposed. He dropped as many as he caught. Huge disappointment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said: He dropped as many as he caught. Huge disappointment. Had one drop on 51 targets last year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy 2 Times Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 11 minutes ago, T0mShane said: Had one drop on 51 targets last year. I ignore your math sir. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said: I ignore your math sir. Math is extremely difficult for me so I want extra credit in the rare instances that I 1. Use a number or 2. State a verifiable fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 58 minutes ago, T0mShane said: Had one drop on 51 targets last year. I didn't look it up, and I assume you are being serious. So I am not sure what to say other than watching him I wasn't impressed. Seemed like he had way more drops than that. Wilson threw him dimes (served up on a platter) and he dropped them, kidding. Really though he seemed like he had a bunch of drops from my super memory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 Just now, Maxman said: I didn't look it up, and I assume you are being serious. So I am not sure what to say other than watching him I wasn't impressed. Seemed like he had way more drops than that. Wilson threw him dimes (served up on a platter) and he dropped them, kidding. Really though he seemed like he had a bunch of drops from my super memory. Yeah, he definitely wasn’t great last year and I think his issue is that he’s a #3 or 4 receiver who gets washed when lined up across from any starting-caliber CB. On the Raiders, he’s the cheap fill-in opposite Davante Adams and will be working against the opposing team’s third or fourth corner because of Renfrow and Waller. Good spot for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 Zach is the best bounce passer in the NFL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 1 hour ago, T0mShane said: Yeah, he definitely wasn’t great last year and I think his issue is that he’s a #3 or 4 receiver who gets washed when lined up across from any starting-caliber CB. On the Raiders, he’s the cheap fill-in opposite Davante Adams and will be working against the opposing team’s third or fourth corner because of Renfrow and Waller. Good spot for him. Ok, that is a great explanation. Definitely how I remember it. When he was the 4th option here early last year I thought wow what a great signing. He was open early, seemed to be a good route runner. When they counted on him (needed him) more I was less impressed. So he could be in a good spot now, just can't be that December Jets roster. No tight ends, no receivers. This years offense has more talent after two or three injuries than they have had here in ten years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Englewood Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 On 8/5/2022 at 12:18 PM, TuscanyTile2 said: Zach is the best bounce passer in the NFL. Looks very Aaron Rodgersy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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