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Merged Becton Injury Thread


johnnyjet
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10 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I mean, the standard answer is “we’ll wait to see what the medical staff says, but we’re obviously hoping for the best.” I do wonder if Saleh has a special enmity toward Becton that leads him to downplay his injuries.

I just tried carving out $10 mil on Spotrac and I think the only way to do it is to extend CJ Mosley and spread out his money. 

Becton is obviously soft and Saleh thinks he’s an exaggerating baby.  
 

This might end up serious, but you can’t blame anyone on the Jets for rolling their eyes when he limps and rolls around.  
 

The odds of it being simple pain tolerance was pretty high. 

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4 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Becton is obviously soft and Saleh thinks he’s an exaggerating baby.  
 

This might end up serious, but you can’t blame anyone on the Jets for rolling their eyes when he limps and rolls around.  
 

The odds of it being simple pain tolerance was pretty high. 

What a dopey take. And if the CS had the same train of thought as you, they should be fired. 

You don't **** around with a player who is limping on the same leg he had surgery on less than a year ago. 

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32 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

The only people who have commented  on Bectons weight are the media and people on this forum. I can't  think of a thing the Jets ever said as an organization  that related to his weight, even when everyone knew he got out of shape last season. 

I appreciate you fighting this fight. But come on now. You can’t play offensive line over 350lbs and expect to remain healthy. 

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12 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Becton is obviously soft and Saleh thinks he’s an exaggerating baby.  
 

This might end up serious, but you can’t blame anyone on the Jets for rolling their eyes when he limps and rolls around.  
 

The odds of it being simple pain tolerance was pretty high. 

That’s pretty fu**ed up if it’s how that went down. How about someone going over to check and see wtf is going on?

This isn’t the 70’s or 80’s and this wasn’t us back in high school doing two a days. Becton is an $18 million investment, I don’t understand how the CS and medical staff allowed him to stay out there the way he was laboring yesterday.

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12 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Especially considering this is the second time he’s done this same thing with Becton specifically. That said, this whole “actually it’s a different injury than what we thought this afternoon” sounds like cleanup. Jets are a mess.

 

I dont know whether to be impressed or scared by how perfectly you nailed this scenario that is looking like a lock at this point I'll be ponying up a $100 for a great cause.

 

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10 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Duane Brown is far better than most of you are giving him credit for - he's a more than capable T.  

The OL will be fine.

They haven’t signed him yet, and he’s another LT. That would be a better solution if I thought either he or Fant would be good on the right side, but I don’t. I’ll leave the panicking to others, but JD does need to make a move or two here. 
 
You know who out there and still only 30 years old? Brandon Shell. I’d at least take a look at him. 

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2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I appreciate you fighting this fight. But come on now. You can’t play offensive line over 350lbs and expect to remain healthy. 

I think weight is relative to your height  and frame, not what position you play. I'm just saying things are bad enough without making things up. Everyone should have been rooting for Becton to recover. I think this is horrible and a major step backwards for the team. 

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28 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

What’s a HC supposed to do though?  Bectons health is a huge story, everyone saw him go down and ask what he was told.  I guess he should lie and not tell the press, the fans, what’s going on.  
It’s a case of killing the messenger 

Not put he's bullsh*t positive spin on something that's tangible real and he doesn't know sh*t about.   You know tell the truth.  I'm not a doctor and he's getting an MRI.  I'll let you know when I know. 

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1 minute ago, slats said:

They haven’t signed him yet, and he’s another LT. That would be a better solution if I thought either he or Fant would be good on the right side, but I don’t. I’ll leave the panicking to others, but JD does need to make a move or two here. 
 
You know who out there and still only 30 years old? Brandon Shell. I’d at least take a look at him. 

I'd bring Shell in too. He can play at an acceptable starter level on the right side, which is better than we have right now. Seattle ran a Zone scheme too, so he should be able to get up to speed fairly quickly.

He does have an injury history though, so the Jets would still need a backup swing tackle unless the rookie Mitchell is up to the job.

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Just now, More Cowbell said:

I think weight is relative to your height  and frame, not what position you play. I'm just saying things are bad enough without making things up. Everyone should have been rooting for Becton to recover. I think this is horrible and a major step backwards for the team. 

He never recovered because he never lost the weight. 

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35 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

So, this largely falls in the behaviorism family - operant conditioning and whatnot - rewards and punishments.  The literature on punishment is pretty clear - it's largely ineffective, and only works in specific conditions when applied properly.  Behavioral rewards are a much more effective method of modification - this is shown over and over again.

Add an NFL player as a variable, and the waters get muddier and muddier.  They have a contract and they are paid ridiculous sums of money.  That's a reward.  That reward is coming regardless, in terms of guaranteed money but also in any other pay prior to a player being cut.  So, some extra laps, being embarrassed in front of others, getting benched, etc. isn't holding a candle to the reward that is inherent in just being there.  From a group perspective - society is a group of sorts, no?  I'm sure you're well aware of how ineffective prison is as both a deterrent to behavior as well as a modifier of behavior.  If denying someone's freedom is ineffective, why would extra laps for a millionaire be effective?

Getting out of behaviorism and into psychoanaltyics - the most successful portion of punishment is probably in satiating the anger/desire for retribution in the person doing the punishing for the perceived affront.  In other words, sadism.  We punish not because it works, but because it makes us feel good to do so.

On Parcells, we've seen periods of his career when he was successful, and periods when he was less so.  I'd hypothesize that his coaching skill and his rosters contributed to this at a far higher level than his discipline.  I'd suspect that his discipline was just a function of his personality and contributed very little.  I also suspect, speaking of out-dated, that if it was effective at all, perhaps when Parcells did it, that the rewards (money) was quite a bit less, and didn't so easily override attempts at punishment.

I think you have to be very thoughtful in this era of who you add to your team.  And, probably just cut/trade guys who are malcontents.  There was no fixing Jamal Adams.  Getting rid of him and not paying him was the win of the trade.  The picks were a bonus.  And with all that, it didn't change Adams at all - because in the NFL, there's always someone else dumb enough to give you the huge reward.

you left out one crucial reward...2nd contract.

These kids like all kids believe they will live forever but some of the smarter ones get a taste of the 1st contract and realize the incentive to get the 2nd whether be with current team or next.

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4 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

A lot of people were bizarrely delighted on passing on a tackle high in the draft. I never understood how anyone could have the slightest confidence in Becton, whether it’s his fault or not.

It’s been pretty ominous since going down early last year after being roasted in camp. I love Sauce as a player and think he’ll be great but you got to wonder if there isn’t some serious regret about leaving Zach exposed to this guy being pencilled in as a starter. It was going to blow up eventually.

Because with or without Becton, this team lacked talent all over the place, and many were happy to add talent elsewhere?

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Well least we know longer have to wonder  why it took so long for him to come back. He obviously has some underlying issue with his knees or the initial  injury was way worse than anyone thought, plus he’s a big dude and that doesn’t help on a weight bearing joint. Saleh pretty much down played it  it both times, don’t blame him, I wouldn’t want to acknowledge it  at first either in his shoes . So I guess? NMU! 

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12 hours ago, freestater said:

How ya doin', @JiFapono?

Still running those becton-showed-up victory laps?

lol - I'm not celebrating an important part of our offense's injury.  I know its fun being right on the internet but doing victory laps about being right about, this no offense, it's kind of sad and pathetic.  In what world is fun and cool to root for a 21 year old kid to get injured?  It's a strange behavior.  Supposedly we're all Jets fan, I'd prefer to have Becton healthy and playing well vs. not but then again, I'm basically never wrong so I dont know what it's like to be desperate to be right. 

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You guys trying to blame the coaching staff are being ridiculous.

This is not on Saleh - Becton was just never going to hold up.  His body isn't made for the beating a full NFL career will require.

JD should have never drafted him.   But it's fine, we can move on from this and we can pay a bit of a premium Brown and make a trade for another T with players and picks.

There's talent available and we'll be fine.  I trust in Joe.  Since that first draft and off-season he's been MUCH better.  

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5 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Not put he's bullsh*t positive spin on something that's tangible real and he doesn't know sh*t about.   You know tell the truth.  I'm not a doctor and he's getting an MRI.  I'll let you know when I know. 

He reported what he was told.  
You want to turn that into BS and a lie. 
He wasn’t getting a MRI initially.

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2 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Well least we know longer have to wonder  why it took so long for him to come back. He obviously has some underlying issue with his knees or the initial  injury was way worse than anyone thought, plus he’s a big dude and that doesn’t help on a weight bearing joint. Saleh pretty much diek played it  it both times, don’t blame him, I wouldn’t want to acknowledge it  at first either in his shoes . So I guess? NMU! 

Yeah gotta feel for Becton too. After all the fat lazy talk it sounded like he was doing everything right up until the injury. By the sounds of it his body just wasn't built for the NFL. He had a healthy career in college no?

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36 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

So, this largely falls in the behaviorism family - operant conditioning and whatnot - rewards and punishments.  The literature on punishment is pretty clear - it's largely ineffective, and only works in specific conditions when applied properly.  Behavioral rewards are a much more effective method of modification - this is shown over and over again.

Add an NFL player as a variable, and the waters get muddier and muddier.  They have a contract and they are paid ridiculous sums of money.  That's a reward.  That reward is coming regardless, in terms of guaranteed money but also in any other pay prior to a player being cut.  So, some extra laps, being embarrassed in front of others, getting benched, etc. isn't holding a candle to the reward that is inherent in just being there.  From a group perspective - society is a group of sorts, no?  I'm sure you're well aware of how ineffective prison is as both a deterrent to behavior as well as a modifier of behavior.  If denying someone's freedom is ineffective, why would extra laps for a millionaire be effective?

Getting out of behaviorism and into psychoanaltyics - the most successful portion of punishment is probably in satiating the anger/desire for retribution in the person doing the punishing for the perceived affront.  In other words, sadism.  We punish not because it works, but because it makes us feel good to do so.

On Parcells, we've seen periods of his career when he was successful, and periods when he was less so.  I'd hypothesize that his coaching skill and his rosters contributed to this at a far higher level than his discipline.  I'd suspect that his discipline was just a function of his personality and contributed very little.  I also suspect, speaking of out-dated, that if it was effective at all, perhaps when Parcells did it, that the rewards (money) was quite a bit less, and didn't so easily override attempts at punishment.

I think you have to be very thoughtful in this era of who you add to your team.  And, probably just cut/trade guys who are malcontents.  There was no fixing Jamal Adams.  Getting rid of him and not paying him was the win of the trade.  The picks were a bonus.  And with all that, it didn't change Adams at all - because in the NFL, there's always someone else dumb enough to give you the huge reward.

Interesting post.   My take on Parcells is he was a great teacher and surrounding himself with high quality coaches who worked very hard.  In fact my take on all the great NFL HC's is they were simply smarter and outworked their contemporaries and surrounded themselves with like minded coaches.   Lots of his motivational tactics and his approach to media was actually schtick and much of it tongue in check and funny.   I think it helped in team building and he basically called out guys with schtick and guys who could handle it.  It sent a message to the team and helped build the team.

Most NFL players have been raised in a highly competitive environment.  Many of them want to be great having nothing to do with money.  Guys who are motivated by money have a lot to gain by getting a second and third contract.  It's up to management to figure this out and deal with them accordingly.  

NFL players during Parcells era were paid very high salaries on a comparative basis.   You have to go back to the 60's to an era when NFL players weren't highly paid on a relative basis.  Even in the 60's coaches like Lombardi and Stram were simply smarter and worked harder than their competitors. 

There have always been malcontents who were talented enough to make a difference in championship quality teams.  The Jets aren't there yet.  

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12 minutes ago, slats said:

They haven’t signed him yet, and he’s another LT. That would be a better solution if I thought either he or Fant would be good on the right side, but I don’t. I’ll leave the panicking to others, but JD does need to make a move or two here. 
 
You know who out there and still only 30 years old? Brandon Shell. I’d at least take a look at him. 

Surely I agree.  And I'm making an assumption for sure - that JD will, in fact, sign Brown (who by the way is still 36 until Aug. 30th and went to the Pro-Bowl last year.) Will be a quality player for the Jets this year.

When JD signs him he will also need to trade for another starting caliber T.

Based on the facts - I have a pretty high level of confidence he'll figure this out. - I'm not panicking.

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3 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

lol - I'm not celebrating an important part of our offense's injury.  I know its fun being right on the internet but doing victory laps about being right about, this no offense, it's kind of sad and pathetic.  In what world is fun and cool to root for a 21 year old kid to get injured?  It's a strange behavior.  Supposedly we're all Jets fan, I'd prefer to have Becton healthy and playing well vs. not but then again, I'm basically never wrong so I dont know what it's like to be desperate to be right. 

It's not like people doubting Becton or asking for a contingency plan at tackle were glad that Becton is unreliable. It basically goes back to acknowledging the evidence (he's got maturity issues and weight problems) and understanding that you have to plan around it because either way, he was a long shot to play in even a majority of games in 2022 regardless given his pro injury history. It sucks, but this whole thing wasn't exactly unforeseeable.

 

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37 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

Aside from 4 win seasons, I don’t see it at all.

Are you seriously comparing Wilson’s rookie year to the one Burrow had?

I’m not even going to get into the different level of competition and preparedness between the two coming into the league.

Okay @Skeptable, I’ll bite.

Explain to me what part of this post you’re downvoting, and if you have time, also point out the “eerie similarities” between us and last year’s Bengals.

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Just now, Green Ghost said:

Okay @Skeptable, I’ll bite.

Explain to me what part of this post you’re downvoting, and if you have time, also point out the “eerie similarities” between us and last year’s Bengals.

Don't bother.  There are a couple guys on the board who relish downvoting.  Some bizarre pseudo-power move.

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