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22 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

if you are comparing two records to one another, winning percentage is your only way to do it objectively, unless each guy has played the same number of games. I didn’t just include the games that “help my argument,” in point of fact, I included all of them. That’s how winning percentage works! 
 

You asked me to compare their records - and I did! I’m sorry if you didn’t think it through! 

 

Hold on. You attributed W-L to QBs, not me. I was talking about the O functioning better with Flacco than Zach at this very moment. Then, you compared a portion of Flacco’s W/L to Zach’s W/L because it helps your argument.

If your argument is that Flacco is an inferior QB based on his win percentage, then evidence it with his entire NFL win percentage.  Unless you think Flacco has only started for the Jets, in which case - Google can be your friend.

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2 minutes ago, jgb said:

It’s as big a mistake to diagnose intent and true belief from what people say at the maximal point of despair as it is to diagnose knee injuries from a 8 second video clip.

Everyone but the true secret double agents here (which number in the low, low single digits, if not zero) hope and pray the QB becomes a laser hot turbo stud. People do, however, vent in comical and melodramatic ways when frustrated. If you have children — or ever were one yourself — this is a point that should not require reference or citation.

Eh - I would disagree with the premise that the outlandish comments all come “at the maximal point of despair” 

They seem to be more of a daily occurrence. I trust that since you are a regular poster here, this also does not require a citation! 

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Just now, slimjasi said:

Eh - I would disagree with the premise that the outlandish comments all come “at the maximal point of despair” 

They seem to be more of a daily occurrence. I trust that since you are a regular poster here, this also does not require a citation! 

The problem with your view is that the most outlandish statements came from the optimistic crew……

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2 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Hold on. You attributed W-L to QBs, not me. I was talking about the O functioning better with Flacco than Zach at this very moment. Then, you compared a portion of Flacco’s W/L to Zach’s W/L because it helps your argument.

If your argument is that Flacco is an inferior QB based on his win percentage, then evidence it with his entire NFL win percentage.  Unless you think Flacco has only started for the Jets, in which case - Google can be your friend.

Well, I agree with your first sentence.   
 

But you did ask me to compare their records.  And the “portions” that I compared were their records as Jets - unless you think Joe Flacco’s Ravens career is actually relevant to the discussion at hand? He was a Super Bowl MVP once upon a time, after all! 

if you look at my first post, I wrote that Joe Flacco is 0-5 “as a Jet” - so that was always the argument. If you think it’s relevant that Flacco was a good QB a decade ago, then you are entitled to that opinion and I’m comfortable letting that stand on its own merit. 

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5 minutes ago, jgb said:

The problem with your view is that the most outlandish statements came from the optimistic crew……

Lol - The problem with this view is that it’s a matter of perspective. 

There are plenty of outlandish comments coming from both sides, I can assure you. 

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3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Lol - The problem with this view is that it’s a matter of perspective. 

There are plenty of outlandish comments coming from both sides, I can assure you. 

Believe as you wish, my friend 😂 

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Just now, tommyduhamelshouse said:

Zach Wilson DOES suck but, I need to see a little more from him.

It would be disaster if he misses signifiant time this season. Also coming from someone who thinks he sucks.

 

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Just now, slimjasi said:

To quote Parcells, this sounds like “decade stuff” 

You know, when the Jets prove me wrong, I’ll happily buy you a drink and take all good-natured ribbing with a very broad smile.

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36 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

So now you are just confused - I didn’t downvote your original post. Check again, lol. 

i rarely downvote 

Well done, you found the one thing I’ve been wrong about in the entire thread. My mistake, you’re right - you didn’t downvote. My apologies. I thought you had. Regardless, you did call me a hater, and have gone on to say that haters have made their stances clear - implying that I have lots of posts hating on Zach. I’ll admit that I’m sensitive to that because the one thing I’ve learned about my online Jets fan self over the last 15 years on Jets forums is that I hate the haters more than I hate the homers. I hate the haters so much that I rarely even interact with them anymore. It’s not worth my time. This whole Jets fan thing is a hobby of love. I’ve always tried very hard not to be a hater despite how difficult this team makes it. I hated the Sanchez and Darnold picks, but when they showed me something, I rooted like hell for them. @ZachEY can attest as he and I went back and forth a ton, and I assumed the “homer” designation at those times. The posts are all there for you to search.

I was hoping the same for Zach but he hasn’t shown me anything yet, and he’s played with significantly better teammates than Darnold.

Even then, I never said that I was happy or that I’m not still rooting for him. I said that this might be best because as of right now, Flacco is better than Zach, and therefore for the whole team, it will be beneficial.

With that as context, take another gander at my OP and tell me where I’m hating. My whole post is positive about the direction of the team and hopeful for Zach upon his return. Even ended the post with optimism.

6 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

We just upgraded two of the most important positions via injury, and the board is acting like the season is dead.

I wanted Mekhi and Zach to succeed. Even though I didn’t agree with the Zach pick, I wanted him to prove me wrong and throw TDs in Jans and Febs for the next 10 years. Maybe he still will.

What I do know though, is that as of right now, both of them were liabilities more than they were assets. IMO JD has done a very good job with most of the rest of the roster. We have a team that can compete, and frankly I felt that Mekhi and Zach might have been holding us back.

We now have a pro-bowler to play alongside AVT to help the run game and stabilize pass pro over a guy who we consistently would have wondered about giving effort or getting hurt or just living up to his hype.

At QB, to be clear, I don’t think Flacco is anything great. However, I do believe he’ll bring stability and experience which will really help the development of the rest of the guys on O, and I think he’ll make fewer mistakes which will help the D. The net will be an overall positive for the team. And the extended time off watching and learning from a SB MVP from the sidelines might be just what Zach needs in terms of development to take the next step.

I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and let the season play out, and enjoy the ride. When was the last time we got to say that we have a legitimately talented roster with a probowl LT and a SB MVP QB? 

 

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Just now, greenwichjetfan said:

Well done, you found the one thing I’ve been wrong about in the entire thread. My mistake, you’re right - you didn’t downvote. My apologies. I thought you had. Regardless, you did call me a hater, and have gone on to say that haters have made their stances clear - implying that I have lots of posts hating on Zach. I’ll admit that I’m sensitive to that because the one thing I’ve learned about my online Jets fan self over the last 15 years on Jets forums is that I hate the haters more than I hate the homers. I hate the haters so much that I rarely even interact with them anymore. It’s not worth my time. This whole Jets fan thing is a hobby of love. I’ve always tried very hard not to be a hater despite how difficult this team makes it. I hated the Sanchez and Darnold picks, but when they showed me something, I rooted like hell for them. @ZachEY can attest as he and I went back and forth a ton, and I assumed the “homer” designation at those times. The posts are all there for you to search.

I was hoping the same for Zach but he hasn’t shown me anything yet, and he’s played with significantly better teammates than Darnold.

Even then, I never said that I was happy or that I’m not still rooting for him. I said that this might be best because as of right now, Flacco is better than Zach, and therefore for the whole team, it will be beneficial.

With that as context, take another gander at my OP and tell me where I’m hating. My whole post is positive about the direction of the team and hopeful for Zach upon his return. Even ended the post with optimism.

 

When did I call you, specifically, a hater?

Looks like two things!  

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1 minute ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Well done, you found the one thing I’ve been wrong about in the entire thread. My mistake, you’re right - you didn’t downvote. My apologies. I thought you had. Regardless, you did call me a hater, and have gone on to say that haters have made their stances clear - implying that I have lots of posts hating on Zach. I’ll admit that I’m sensitive to that because the one thing I’ve learned about my online Jets fan self over the last 15 years on Jets forums is that I hate the haters more than I hate the homers. I hate the haters so much that I rarely even interact with them anymore. It’s not worth my time. This whole Jets fan thing is a hobby of love. I’ve always tried very hard not to be a hater despite how difficult this team makes it. I hated the Sanchez and Darnold picks, but when they showed me something, I rooted like hell for them. @ZachEY can attest as he and I went back and forth a ton, and I assumed the “homer” designation at those times. The posts are all there for you to search.

I was hoping the same for Zach but he hasn’t shown me anything yet, and he’s played with significantly better teammates than Darnold.

Even then, I never said that I was happy or that I’m not still rooting for him. I said that this might be best because as of right now, Flacco is better than Zach, and therefore for the whole team, it will be beneficial.

With that as context, take another gander at my OP and tell me where I’m hating. My whole post is positive about the direction of the team and hopeful for Zach upon his return. Even ended the post with optimism.

 

Skepticism is called “hatin’” or “trollin’” because it requires very little mental energy to type those few letters.

Take it for what it is — an attempt to convince oneself that pessimism must be grounded in bad faith, as there are only green pastures ahead.

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13 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Well, I agree with your first sentence.   
 

But you did ask me to compare their records.  And the “portions” that I compared were their records as Jets - unless you think Joe Flacco’s Ravens career is actually relevant to the discussion at hand? He was a Super Bowl MVP once upon a time, after all! 

if you look at my first post, I wrote that Joe Flacco is 0-5 “as a Jet” - so that was always the argument. If you think it’s relevant that Flacco was a good QB a decade ago, then you are entitled to that opinion and I’m comfortable letting that stand on its own merit. 

Yes, I asked you to compare their records because you want to evaluate their merits based on W/L records, and you responded with the “as a Jets” record. If you think that Flacco’s non-Jets career has nothing to do with what he brings to the table as QB of the Jets today, then you should also throw away Zach’s non-Jets record at BYU and his 2nd overall pick status, and judge him based only on the Jets. At that point, Zach is garbage and we should go with Mike White - cuz, Jets win percentage as a starter and all that.

Now, if your entire argument is that the Jets are better with Zach because he has a .233 career win percentage, then provide Flacco’s career percentage and then we can talk. 

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If Zach doesn't suck, the burden of proof is entirely on Zach proving otherwise. 

Outside of the blind faith of his defenders, I don't know what you can hang your hat on to think he is even an average QB in this league.

Maybe sitting (again) and watching (again) will help him. 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Yes, I asked you to compare their records because you want to evaluate their merits based on W/L records, and you responded with the “as a Jets” record. If you think that Flacco’s non-Jets career has nothing to do with what he brings to the table as QB of the Jets today, then you should also throw away Zach’s non-Jets record at BYU and his 2nd overall pick status, and judge him based only on the Jets. At that point, Zach is garbage and we should go with Mike White - cuz, Jets win percentage as a starter and all that.

Now, if your entire argument is that the Jets are better with Zach because he has a .233 career win percentage, then provide Flacco’s career percentage and then we can talk. 

Nah, my argument is that playing Flacco is a waste of time. He’s a dinosaur who hasn’t won a game as a starter since 2019 and is obviously not a part of the future.

 

If Wilson has to miss any time, white should absolutely get the start, IMO. At least he has a shot, in theory, of being part of our future. I have no interest in watching old man Flacco.

 

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17 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

What a sh*t ass response to me actually typing out a real response to the garbage you’ve brought to the thread. Who’s trolling now?

I don’t remember calling you a troll, either. You’re 3 for 3.

I also think it’s funny that the guy counting downvotes (and mis-attributing them to me - whoops!) is calling other people “sensitive” 

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41 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Nah, my argument is that playing Flacco is a waste of time. He’s a dinosaur who hasn’t won a game as a starter since 2019 and is obviously not a part of the future.

 

If Wilson has to miss any time, white should absolutely get the start, IMO. At least he has a shot, in theory, of being part of our future. I have no interest in watching old man Flacco.

 

You’ve posted like 10 times in this thread about haters, trolls, and bad faith statistical arguments, and have now backtracked all of your points to: My original post had nothing to do with the intent of this thread and I’ve made an ass of myself.

36 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I don’t remember calling you a troll, either. You’re 3 for 3.

I also think it’s funny that the guy counting downvotes (and mis-attributing them to me - whoops!) is calling other people “sensitive” 

When there’s nothing left to be wrong about, deflect and distract. A tried and true method. Well done my friend. With your above post finally making the rest of your posts clear, I think our interactions in this thread have reached their pinnacle. You can have the last word. Go Jets (not only Go Zach Wilson)!

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2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

The next game will be in the regular season. If he goes 5 for 5 and sits, it will mean he got hurt again and therefore  will be proclaimed a busted pick by everyone. 

These were his forst throws all year under adversity. No red vest and he had the yips. He certainly wasn't an example of calm back there. That is what most of us are troubled by. There is no excuse for locking on receivers multiple times and making dumb ass decisions running the ball. He is supposed to be past that. These are rookie mistakes. 

Yeah. He stinks. He didn't take the next step.  He had two full series to show us he has matured.  He hasn't.  We can all tell that from his first two passes.  Cut him. Trade him. Bench him.  Fire JD.  Sign Garappolo.  Trade for Minshew.  Panic time.  

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14 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Yeah. He stinks. He didn't take the next step.  He had two full series to show us he has matured.  He hasn't.  We can all tell that from his first two passes.  Cut him. Trade him. Bench him.  Fire JD.  Sign Garappolo.  Trade for Minshew.  Panic time.  

Lol, Ok, I am in the middle.  I'm not walking around like you saying everything is fine and I'm not doing the chicken little thing you just typed. That is what is wrong with all of you sunshine boys. Joe W Namath is a perfect example of this. He goes from we are winning it all to the depths of Hell in a blink of an eye yesterday. O am describing what I saw. You see bad and think it doesn't matter. I don't  agree with that. Let's  leave it at this. 

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Yay. Does he start the game with a lollipop interception, dirt ball, overthrow, or an exploding meniscus? 
Nope the dirtball came thanks to mr white.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

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9 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

We just upgraded two of the most important positions via injury, and the board is acting like the season is dead.

I wanted Mekhi and Zach to succeed. Even though I didn’t agree with the Zach pick, I wanted him to prove me wrong and throw TDs in Jans and Febs for the next 10 years. Maybe he still will.

What I do know though, is that as of right now, both of them were liabilities more than they were assets. IMO JD has done a very good job with most of the rest of the roster. We have a team that can compete, and frankly I felt that Mekhi and Zach might have been holding us back.

We now have a pro-bowler to play alongside AVT to help the run game and stabilize pass pro over a guy who we consistently would have wondered about giving effort or getting hurt or just living up to his hype.

At QB, to be clear, I don’t think Flacco is anything great. However, I do believe he’ll bring stability and experience which will really help the development of the rest of the guys on O, and I think he’ll make fewer mistakes which will help the D. The net will be an overall positive for the team. And the extended time off watching and learning from a SB MVP from the sidelines might be just what Zach needs in terms of development to take the next step.

I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and let the season play out, and enjoy the ride. When was the last time we got to say that we have a legitimately talented roster with a probowl LT and a SB MVP QB? 

What ride is that? 

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1 hour ago, greenwichjetfan said:

You’ve posted like 10 times in this thread about haters, trolls, and bad faith statistical arguments, and have now backtracked all of your points to: My original post had nothing to do with the intent of this thread and I’ve made an ass of myself.

When there’s nothing left to be wrong about, deflect and distract. A tried and true method. Well done my friend. With your above post finally making the rest of your posts clear, I think our interactions in this thread have reached their pinnacle. You can have the last word. Go Jets (not only Go Zach Wilson)!

Ok, my last words are also:

 

Go Jets! 

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Lol, Ok, I am in the middle.  I'm not walking around like you saying everything is fine and I'm not doing the chicken little thing you just typed. That is what is wrong with all of you sunshine boys. Joe W Namath is a perfect example of this. He goes from we are winning it all to the depths of Hell in a blink of an eye yesterday. O am describing what I saw. You see bad and think it doesn't matter. I don't  agree with that. Let's  leave it at this. 

I am not saying everything is fine. I am not saying Wilson will work out. I am saying you cannot tell diddly squat from 5 passes in a preseason game. That is all.  I can show you a 5 pass sequence from any QB in NFL history and from that make each one look like either the best or worst QB in NFL history.  5 passes (really 2 here) does not tell anyone anything.  You are dissecting a potential career based on 20-30 seconds of live action. You are attaching significance to an insignificant event. It is ridiculous. That is all.  

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3 hours ago, slimjasi said:

I just looked at them - they are nothing to write home about. 

That’s not what I was asking for.  I was asking for you to compare them to Wilson’s.  And how the offense as a whole performed with Flacco under center.  

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40 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That’s not what I was asking for.  I was asking for you to compare them to Wilson’s.  And how the offense as a whole performed with Flacco under center.  

Flacco has better numbers, but I’m not convinced there is a statistically significant difference, especially with such small sample sizes (5 games vs 13 games).
 

And certainly not a big enough difference to warrant wanting to see a washed up vet on the last legs of his career play. Playing Flacco is a waste of time. If Wilson can’t play, White should play, not Flacco. 

 

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1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

Flacco has better numbers, but I’m not convinced there is a statistically significant difference, especially with such small sample sizes (5 games vs 13 games).
 

And certainly not a big enough difference to warrant wanting to see a washed up vet on the last legs of his career play. Playing Flacco is a waste of time. If Wilson can’t play, White should play, not Flacco. 

But it WAS a large enough sample size to talk about Flacco being worse simply because the team was 0-5 with him under center, eh?

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