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Wilson Durability Concern


kevinc855
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1 hour ago, bla bla bla said:

The knee is the biggest concern for sure. Has Zach had issues with the shoulder and finger since injuring them? 

If he has had problems with the finger or shoulder how exactly would we know?

 

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2 hours ago, UnknownJetFan said:

Maybe, but Mac Jone may be limited to never get past he first round of the playoffs, which we would take now but at one point you want a higher ceiling than that.

The high ceiling guy in that draft was Trey Lance who has an arm and is built like Josh Allen.   Not that I would have done that at 2.  It may well be we passed on Two of the toughest guys in the NFL for Doggie Howser and a cow on ice skates.  

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6 hours ago, heymangold said:

Can you imagine if the jets picked Mac Jones?  The amount of “he’s not an athlete” or things along those lines that would be posted here would be insane.

If the Jets drafted Mac Jones he would be out of the league by now.

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2 minutes ago, sackdance said:

If the Jets drafted Mac Jones he would be out of the league by now.

You base this on....? Jones was a starter on the best team in the best conference throwing 50/60 yard ropes vs. NFL talent and playing in  big games. Wilson wasn't facing anywhere close to that level of competition. 

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14 hours ago, oatmeal said:

If he has had problems with the finger or shoulder how exactly would we know?

He had it repaired before he played his final year at BYU so it seems to be alright. You'd have to imagine we'd have heard of shoulder stiffness or soreness at any point over the last year and a half if it were an issue.

If the logic is he could be hinding it then that's something that could be said for any and all players

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21 hours ago, Lith said:

So, let me get this straight.  Yesterday it was, oh no, zach wilson is done for the season.  We are f**ked.  Today it is oh no, zach wilson is still our QB.  we are f**ked.

Now you're catching on!

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14 hours ago, Bugg said:

You base this on....? Jones was a starter on the best team in the best conference throwing 50/60 yard ropes vs. NFL talent and playing in  big games. Wilson wasn't facing anywhere close to that level of competition. 

Mac was throwing 50 to 60 yard ropes?  I didn't watch him much in college but, if that's true, where did his arm strength go when he reached the NFL?  Put him on any team but the Pats (under BB) and I don't think he's anywhere near the same guy.  Heck, I still don't think he's going to be much more than mediocre anyway.  He's smart and he's accurate but I think he has a fairly low ceiling.  I'm not sure he's beating the elite QBs (Mahomes, Josh Allen, etc) in big games.  

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17 hours ago, Dunnie said:

So the takeaway ...

Majority of Jets fans are weak stomached ninnies that would prefer safe stable game manager to electrifying generational arm talented gunsliger.

vous êtes tous des connards

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Honest question:  Have you actually seen much "generational arm talent" lately? 

That word, generational, just gets in my craw.  What Zach can do most NFL QB's, aside of the weak-armed JAG variety like Taylor Heinke, can also do.

Plus, isn't the goal to win games, and then hopefully a title?  Why do we care weather those games are won by a "game manager" vs a "generational gunslinger"? 

I think maybe folks are missing the point.  Which is winning.  Not how we win, just winning.

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3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Honest question:  Have you actually seen much "generational arm talent" lately? 

That word, generational, just gets in my craw.  What Zach can do most NFL QB's, aside of the weak-armed JAG variety like Taylor Heinke, can also do.

Plus, isn't the goal to win games, and then hopefully a title?  Why do we care weather those games are won by a "game manager" vs a "generational gunslinger"? 

I think maybe folks are missing the point.  Which is winning.  Not how we win, just winning.

image.png.e7de3be3ae6bfbea78dfb04c4dcff90f.png

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14 hours ago, oatmeal said:

If he has had problems with the finger or shoulder how exactly would we know?

 

If it were a problem we would know.  If his shoulder was a problem he would throw 67 MPH passes in practice this season, the fastest they’ve ever recorded. 

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Honest question:  Have you actually seen much "generational arm talent" lately? 
That word, generational, just gets in my craw.  What Zach can do most NFL QB's, aside of the weak-armed JAG variety like Taylor Heinke, can also do.
Plus, isn't the goal to win games, and then hopefully a title?  Why do we care weather those games are won by a "game manager" vs a "generational gunslinger"? 
I think maybe folks are missing the point.  Which is winning.  Not how we win, just winning.
No ... but I really wanted to give him the year to vet it out naturally instead of jumping the gun.

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Just now, Dunnie said:

No ... but I really wanted to give him the year to vet it out naturally instead of jumping the gun.

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Oh, as did I, make no mistake about that.

But he got hurt.  Again.  That's not on us Fans.  That's on Zach's overall durability.

So far, Zach is showing himself to be a bit fragile.  Like Becton sans the fat.

Hopefully all the happy-talk about it only being a few weeks is true (and not another Becton scenario), and we'll see Zach again early in the season and all that vetting can still occur.

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12 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Honest question:  Have you actually seen much "generational arm talent" lately? 

That word, generational, just gets in my craw.  What Zach can do most NFL QB's, aside of the weak-armed JAG variety like Taylor Heinke, can also do.

Plus, isn't the goal to win games, and then hopefully a title?  Why do we care weather those games are won by a "game manager" vs a "generational gunslinger"? 

I think maybe folks are missing the point.  Which is winning.  Not how we win, just winning.

ZW hit 67 MPH at practice this week.  That’s the highest they ever recorded.  That sounds generation strength to,me.  Watson for example was in the 40MPH range at the combine.  Does it mean anything towards winning?  Does 20MPH mean you can’t win?  Obviously not.  But it’s special on its own.  But it is interesting when some here argue that people overrate his arm strength, that it really isn’t as big as advertised. 

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I can't understand how some of you are not concerned about the injuries at this point. He has missed games 2 of his last 3 seasons this year and this year will likely make it 3 out of 4. This is while he was in his late teens and early 20s, when you should arguably be more durable. The argument that what happened in college doesn't count seems to forget about Dee Millner, who had multiple surgeries in college and then could never get on the field in the NFL. 

Some people are just more injury prone than others, I'm not really sure anything can be done about that. 

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ZW hit 67 MPH at practice this week.  That’s the highest they ever recorded.  That sounds generation strength to,me.  Watson for example was in the 40MPH range at the combine.  Does it mean anything towards winning?  Does 20MPH mean you can’t win?  Obviously not.  But it’s special on its own.  But it is interesting when some here argue that people overrate his arm strength, that it really isn’t as big as advertised. 
One of the reasons I was so excited for this year.... if he could somehow put it all together ... omg

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17 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

Ceiling is definitely a subjective term but I think you can look at a few different metrics like strength, speed, accuracy, and hand size to get a rough idea of where a guy is most likely to stack up. I mean heck, that is exactly why they do the combine and have percentiles. There are guys that fall short or exceed expectation so it's not an exact science. 

I do not believe in “ceiling” for QB, at least not in any sense that relates to physical attributes. Once they have satisfactory physical talent, additional ability there offers a diminishing return and it’s like 99% brain at that point.

This is why extrapolating college QB performance to NFL performance is the hardest thing to scout in sport.

There is no measurable reason why Jamarcus Russell is the biggest bust in NFL history and Tom Brady is the best draft selection ever. The most important QB attribute is (so far) immeasurable. So drafting for physical talent is fine (what else can you really do) but once they have a fair amount of NFL tape, I no longer give 2 turds about physical “ceiling.” Gimme the guy who looks like he belongs and isn’t overwhelmed.

The paucity of NFL QB “turnaround stories” is well documented on this site.

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1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Mac was throwing 50 to 60 yard ropes?  I didn't watch him much in college but, if that's true, where did his arm strength go when he reached the NFL?  Put him on any team but the Pats (under BB) and I don't think he's anywhere near the same guy.  Heck, I still don't think he's going to be much more than mediocre anyway.  He's smart and he's accurate but I think he has a fairly low ceiling.  I'm not sure he's beating the elite QBs (Mahomes, Josh Allen, etc) in big games.  

Jones was tremendous at Bama. he was doing it vs. NFL talent almost every week. He was doing it in big games in the SEC and the BCS playoffs. . Wilson is a tiny guy who was playing vs. inferior talent in a Mickey Mouse conference. Josh Allen might be a comparable RE conference, but he's 6'5".

Again, the knock on Jones  is the guy plays well within a sensible system. "Smart and accurate". That's bad? "Low ceiling"; rookie Pro Bowler and a playoff berth. Jones may never be in the elite cohort, but he's effective. You can win with that. Meanwile  there is nothing in Wilson's CV to suggest so far anyway that he's even adequate, much less elite. Wilson hasn't beaten anybody. 

This was yet another New York Jets draft  mega-f-up in a history filled with them. 

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23 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

This would be his 4th injury in the last 4 years.

Jan 9, 2019Non-NFLShoulder Labrum TearWilson sustained a shoulder injury while playing in high school. He underwent surgery to repair a labrum in his right shoulder

Sep 28, 2019Non-NFLHand Thumb FractureWilson suffered a thumb injury suffered during the loss at Toledo. He missed 4 games

Oct 24, 2021NFLKnee PCL Sprain Grade 2Wilson suffered a PCL injury in New York's loss to the Patriots. He missed 4 games.

August 13, 2022 Bone bruise, out 2-4 weeks 

What if the bulking up contributed to the injury?  

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Once again we just have to wait and hope. Agree the second knee injury is a major set back. He really needed these training camp reps badly. Best I can forsee is he comes back and looks rusty/bad for a few games before finally taking the step forward at around midseason. Gonna be a awfully depressing around here for several weeks just like most of last year. I hope he can finish the year looking like a real franchise QB. Otherwise, back to the drawing board once again. 

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23 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

This would be his 4th injury in the last 4 years.

Jan 9, 2019Non-NFLShoulder Labrum TearWilson sustained a shoulder injury while playing in high school. He underwent surgery to repair a labrum in his right shoulder

Sep 28, 2019Non-NFLHand Thumb FractureWilson suffered a thumb injury suffered during the loss at Toledo. He missed 4 games

Oct 24, 2021NFLKnee PCL Sprain Grade 2Wilson suffered a PCL injury in New York's loss to the Patriots. He missed 4 games.

August 13, 2022 Bone bruise, out 2-4 weeks 

Im honestly not concerned about his durability. I don’t really see him being a good enough QB to having it really matter how durable he is. It’s very possible his lack of durability may prove to speed up the vetting process and may work in our favor in the long run. Kev

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8 hours ago, Bugg said:

Jones was tremendous at Bama. he was doing it vs. NFL talent almost every week. He was doing it in big games in the SEC and the BCS playoffs. . Wilson is a tiny guy who was playing vs. inferior talent in a Mickey Mouse conference. Josh Allen might be a comparable RE conference, but he's 6'5".

Again, the knock on Jones  is the guy plays well within a sensible system. "Smart and accurate". That's bad? "Low ceiling"; rookie Pro Bowler and a playoff berth. Jones may never be in the elite cohort, but he's effective. You can win with that. Meanwile  there is nothing in Wilson's CV to suggest so far anyway that he's even adequate, much less elite. Wilson hasn't beaten anybody. 

This was yet another New York Jets draft  mega-f-up in a history filled with them. 

How did Tua do at Bama?

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16 hours ago, Biggs said:

The high ceiling guy in that draft was Trey Lance who has an arm and is built like Josh Allen.   Not that I would have done that at 2.  It may well be we passed on Two of the toughest guys in the NFL for Doggie Howser and a cow on ice skates.  

Lance was the guy I wanted.

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48 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Jones was tremendous at Bama. he was doing it vs. NFL talent almost every week. He was doing it in big games in the SEC and the BCS playoffs. . Wilson is a tiny guy who was playing vs. inferior talent in a Mickey Mouse conference. Josh Allen might be a comparable RE conference, but he's 6'5".

Again, the knock on Jones  is the guy plays well within a sensible system. "Smart and accurate". That's bad? "Low ceiling"; rookie Pro Bowler and a playoff berth. Jones may never be in the elite cohort, but he's effective. You can win with that. Meanwile  there is nothing in Wilson's CV to suggest so far anyway that he's even adequate, much less elite. Wilson hasn't beaten anybody. 

This was yet another New York Jets draft  mega-f-up in a history filled with them. 

This is why I rated Mac the #2 QB in the class.

39 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Exactly this 

Beyond a certain threshold of physical traits like size, arm talent and accuracy, the stuff that determines QB success has to do with immeasurable things like football IQ (I.e. ability to read defenses / awareness of which defenders are on field at all times and what your mismatches are, who to attack, awareness to catch defense with 12 men on field, etc.), poise, pocket awareness, nuances of footwork, intelligence, clutch factor, sound repeatable mechanics that don’t fall apart under pressure, toughness, durability, etc.

The stuff like arm angles and throwing “off platform” is so overrated and GMs can fall in love with style over substance.

There might be 1 or 2 plays a game where those sort of “you can’t teach that” abilities actually make a difference.

So you have a QB who looks flashy at times.

Yet at the same time, the QB can’t read a defense, struggles to hit layups, and doesn’t know where to go with the ball when he’s not staring down his WRs.

💯 

One addition: I do not blame GMs for drafting on the physical stuff at least until the NFL develops some way to reduce the margin of error in evaluating the intangibles you helpfully list. When in doubt, sure give me the physical freak. 

I just felt very strongly that Mac was a winner, smart, and would be an efficient NFL QB. 

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23 hours ago, Facts said:

Definitely a concern and something ive thought about since I first saw him.

Just look at the pic below. He looks like a boy. His body just doesnt look like it ever developed into a grown mans body and I worry that will always be an issue considering how physical the NFL is.

That being said, last night was a non-contact injury so that's a whole different thing.

Tell me this doesn't look like a high-school player at first glance?

zach-wilson-1.webp.95afb128363b6d1e2891debc853fc00f.webp

Same concerns here, he would be GREAT!!!!!!!!!! as an Olympian in flag football.

Poor draft choice, should have got Mac or Fields

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Same concerns here, he would be GREAT!!!!!!!!!! as an Olympian in flag football.
Poor draft choice, should have got Mac or Fields
Fields ???? Really ??? JfC

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