Garrett Wilson talks about the differences between Joe Flacco and Zach Wilson:

[PorP]

28 minutes ago, Jolot said:

Yup , 100% . Players aren’t fans , they don’t care about the 5-10 year plan , half these guys are all one play away from being out of the league .

You're right man but locker room sh1t doesn't belong at the mic. This topic ended up here so what is the media going to do with it? 

In addition and in case you didn't see the full interview.... GW decided it was gonna be a good idea to perform an unprompted jawing at Saleh to.... that's an even better way to lose reps or take reps with 3rd team. 

I agree with @Warfish most of the time but this time I agree with @FidelioJet

He could have responded 1000 different ways and the way he chose was a rookie mistake... no big deal,  he'll learn. 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, PorP said:

You're right man but locker room sh1t doesn't belong at the mic. This topic ended up here so what is the media going to do with it? 

In addition and in case you didn't see the full interview.... GW decided it was gonna be a good idea to perform an unprompted jawing at Saleh to.... that's an even better way to lose reps or take reps with 3rd team. 

I agree with @Warfish most of the time but this time I agree with @FidelioJet

He could have responded 1000 different ways and the way he chose was a rookie mistake... no big deal,  he'll learn. 

Players speak in bromides: “It’s boring drivel.”

Player speak from the heart: “Take his reps!!!!”

[FidelioJet]

10 minutes ago, jgb said:

Second half when he was not quite as bad does count. So he might not be the worst in the NFL. He could also be an outrageous outlier that comes out of nowhere to Josh Allen the league. If you’d like to bed in that result, please let me know. Got three kids to put through college.

Nah..

His accuracy issues were quite a bit better.  The yips were gone, the throwing behind people wasn't there, the floats over people's heads etc.

Sure some misses but the really bad accuracy issues that are being discussed here - the "dropped" balls that probably weren't dropped because the placement was sh*tty (which I agree) Those mostly went away the last 5 games or so.    Surely his overall stats weren't strong - but that certainly can be attributed to the talent around him.

By refusing to acknowledge his growth (or doing so with a snarky acceptance) just reads to me like someone not really even attempting to be fair-minded.   Whether you're doing it on purpose or don't realize - that one I can tell.

 

[PorP]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Players speak in bromides: “It’s boring drivel.”

Player speak from the heart: “Take his reps!!!!”

Ya,  that's a 1/2 truth. ...

A player like CJ speaking from the heart and supporting his team / organization is not what happened. 

The other side of that coin will either be corrected or gain a bad reputation real quick. 

[T0mShane]

14 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Second half of last year is instructive of the 1st too.

But I hear that doesn't matter.  I would be interested in seeing that chart the final 5 games.   I would be willing to wager it is quite a bit better.

Moreover there is clear signs of growth in practice from year 1 to. year 2.

We can choose to ONLY focus on the negative or look for positives signs and progress while also accepting the negative.  Some people like our friend @TomShane choose the former.  

I prefer to the latter.

It’s true. I’m completely ignoring the lazer-like precision and the Pattonesque decision making of his five preseason passes—one of which killed a small child in the front row and the other one which hit Eagles linebacker Kyzir White so hard in the chest that it may have caused a pulmonary embolism. Apologies, Zach, I will do a better job focusing on the vast and apparent improvements in your burgeoning talent swatch as an NFL passer.

[slats]

31 minutes ago, Coquito said:

Zach needs to take Psilocybin like Aaron Rogers. Trails and sh*t. 

No, that was ayahuasca. Psilocybin’s thing is making Mexican beach bars even more fun. 

[PorP]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’s true. I’m completely ignoring the lazer-like precision and the Pattonesque decision making of his five preseason passes—one of which killed a small child in the front row and the other one which hit Eagles linebacker Kyzir White so hard in the chest that it may have caused a pulmonary embolism. Apologies, Zach, I will do a better job focusing on the vast and apparent improvements in your burgeoning talent swatch as an NFL passer.

I'm can't tell from this post... do you have a PhD in sarcasm... lol

[Warfish]

49 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Man, let’s get a grip.  This is what I’ve ‘learned’ this week

1. Teammates hate Zach

I highly doubt that, Zach seems like a very likeable kid.

Just like Sam Darnold did, to be fair.  I doubt either were hated by anyone.

49 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

2. If he just relaxed, he would not have thrown the interception

Can't speak to that, don't know whats wrong in his head.

49 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

3. If he didn’t play hero ball, he likely wouldn’t have hurt himself

The injury occurred on a non-required play in a non-required game. 

But it could have happened anytime.

49 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

4. Zach Wilson isn’t good, implying he never will be after 1 season

He hasn't been very good, mostly.  What he will be could be anything, but the odds are against him becoming the FQG we all dream of.

49 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

5. Mike White sucks, even though it should not be surprising he was completely rusty given his TC reps

He's just a JAG who had a good game.  

49 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

My lord, talk about headline reactions.

How about.

1. A rookie was complimenting a vet (shocker).  Could he have added a caveat, sure?  But again, he’s a rookie.

Agreed.

49 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

2. He didn’t throw an interception in his last 5 games last year.  This was the same interception he threw at the scrimmage, which points out he needs to look off his intended target when he is 5 feet in front of him.  A bad habit that needs to be corrected

His entire focus was on no INT's, to the detriment of offensive production.  He needs to do both.  

49 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

3. Hero ball?  The guy was trying to keep the drive alive and get the first team more reps after the first drive int.  He’s a competitor.

That's moronic in Game 1 of preseason.  Sorry but it is.  Big picture.

49 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

4. He’s entering his second season..

That...is a fact.

49 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

5. A favorite narrative of some.  How about he’s a good QB to have on the roster and is the only backup I can remember winning a game in recent years, against a good team.  The Jets presumed starter hasn’t lasted a full season in half a decade and we want to punt away a guy who actually won a game and looked good doing so

Maybe your right.  But probably not, because the player is so limited physically.  He reminds me of Taylor Heinke, actually, who did in fact win some games.  And was immediately replaced by a guy with an actual NFL arm.

[FidelioJet]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’s true. I’m completely ignoring the lazer-like precision and the Pattonesque decision making of his five preseason passes—one of which killed a small child in the front row and the other one which hit Eagles linebacker Kyzir White so hard in the chest that it may have caused a pulmonary embolism. Apologies, Zach, I will do a better job focusing on the vast and apparent improvements in your burgeoning talent swatch as an NFL passer.

Eh.  Once again - snarky over substance.  Sure new people like @PorP aren’t bored by it yet - but the reality is he wasn’t, at all wild in the pre-season game.  
 

First throw was a throw away and smart decision (route was jumped just as he was ready to throw. He adjusted and threw it away) The int was a terrible read but wasn’t an accuracy issue. His other throws were right on the money.  
 

Now the pre season is meaningless but if you’re using to prove he’s still inaccurate you wouldn’t be doing a very good job.   

[T0mShane]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

Eh.  Once again - snarky over substance.  Sure new people like @PorP aren’t bored by it yet - but the reality is he wasn’t, at all wild in the pre-season game.  
 

First throw was a throw away and smart decision (route was jumped just as he was ready to throw. He adjusted and threw it away) The int was a terrible read but wasn’t an accuracy issue. His other throws were right on the money.  
 

Now the pre season is meaningless but if you’re using to prove he’s still inaccurate you wouldn’t be doing a very good job.   

Zach Wilson’s completion percentages the last five games:

45.24%
56.52%
63.64%
57.58%
35%
 

Average completion percentage in the NFL for all passers, 2021: 64.8%

[PorP]

6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Eh.  Once again - snarky over substance.  Sure new people like @PorP aren’t bored by it yet - but the reality is he wasn’t, at all wild in the pre-season game.  
 

First throw was a throw away and smart decision (route was jumped just as he was ready to throw. He adjusted and threw it away) The int was a terrible read but wasn’t an accuracy issue. His other throws were right on the money.  
 

Now the pre season is meaningless but if you’re using to prove he’s still inaccurate you wouldn’t be doing a very good job.   

#1 @PorP respects @TomShane. Rarely agree with him but he is obviously both intelligent and well researched

#2 @PorP will never tire of posts that are entertaining and free from personal attacks... whether I agree with the content or not. 

And that post Tom did was gooood! I don't have to agree with it too appreciate it. 

 

[oatmeal]

1 minute ago, PorP said:

#1 @PorP respects @TomShane. Rarely agree with him but he is obviously both intelligent and well researched

#2 @PorP will never tire of posts that are entertaining and free from personal attacks... whether I agree with the content or not. 

And that post Tom did was gooood! I don't have to agree with it too appreciate it. 

 

[RoadFan]

4 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

He throws dumpoffs and passes to the flat like he’s trying to throw a fastball

In some cases, just unnecessarily putting it right on top of guys before they can get their hands up 

This is basic stuff 

like if you watch ground passes in soccer, the pros only put as much pace / mustard on a ball as necessary

The goal is to make it as easy as possible to not only handle / receive the pass but for the receiver to make his 1st touch / move into positive space 

This is correct.  But pros at the highest level have a first touch so clean you could launch a hard boiled egg out of a potato gun and they would receive it without cracking the shell… while sprinting…

[FidelioJet]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Zach Wilson’s completion percentages the last five games:

45.24%
56.52%
63.64%
57.58%
35%
 

Average completion percentage in the NFL for all passers, 2021: 64.8%

Very difficult to look at that data in a vacuum.  

I watched those games as I'm sure you did.  There was a noticeable difference in his accuracy.  The throws like the ones where they were on the back hip of guys in crossing routes, or swing pass on the helmets - those weren't there anymore.  He was playing a different brand of football than he had earlier in the season.  

Completion % isn't necessarily a function of accuracy.  Guys have to be open and when your number 1 receiver is a 5'6" back up slot receiver - numbers will suffer.

Look, I'm not saying he was great - he wasn't - but, to me, there was clear progress and reason for optimism.  

If you choose not to see it, that's totally cool - I say good for you.

 

[PorP]

6 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Really just this..... you couldn't even give me a like for the creative MB way I figured out to 3rd person myself.....

Heathen

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Very difficult to look at that data in a vacuum.  

I watched those games as I'm sure you did.  There was a noticeable difference in his accuracy.  The throws like the ones where they were on the back hip of guys in crossing routes, or swing pass on the helmets - those weren't there anymore.  He was playing a different brand of football than he had earlier in the season.  

Completion % isn't necessarily a function of accuracy.  Guys have to be open and when your number 1 receiver is a 5'6" back up slot receiver - numbers will suffer.

Look, I'm not saying he was great - he wasn't - but, to me, there was clear progress and reason for optimism.  

If you choose not to see it, that's totally cool - I say good for you.

 

I think he looked very good against the Bucs. Other than that, not so much.

[Greensleeves]

4 hours ago, Bronx said:

I respect your opinion. However, for Garrett to come out publicly with this statement says a lot. 

Disagree. All I could gather from his comments is that he was giving Flacco respect. I'm sure people had to adjust to Elway and Favre's arm too - he'll get there.

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think he looked very good against the Bucs. Other than that, not so much.

Fair enough - first half Eagles game was, IMO, might have even been better - I think he got the ball two, maybe three times in that second half though.

Look, he has a very long way to go to becoming a FQB.  But I believer there are reasons to be optimistic that he can turn the corner.

First, play smart, controlled football - then evolve and be able to leverage all if his natural tools.  Won't happen over night though.

Yes, if he's making terrible reads - and putting the ball on WR's back hips or in the helmet ear slots - it will be a real problem.  If he comes out doing that early I will be very concerned - and the first here to acknowledge it.  

And because he's not doing it in practice it would be extra concerning because he just might not be a gamer....just might not be the guy capable of handling the pressure.

[Fantasy Island]

Zach looked like crap before the injury. Sugarcoat it all you want but he is not getting better.  

PVO, he does look he has more muscle.

 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

31 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

This is correct.  But pros at the highest level have a first touch so clean you could launch a hard boiled egg out of a potato gun and they would receive it without cracking the shell… while sprinting…

True.

However, the passer will still make sure to not make the pass unnecessarily difficult to handle.  If the weight of the pass is even a little off, it can lead to lost possession or worse.

[T0mShane]

8 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Fair enough - first half Eagles game was, IMO, might have even been better - I think he got the ball two, maybe three times in that second half though.

Look, he has a very long way to go to becoming a FQB.  But I believer there are reasons to be optimistic that he can turn the corner.

First, play smart, controlled football - then evolve and be able to leverage all if his natural tools.  Won't happen over night though.

Yes, if he's making terrible reads - and putting the ball on WR's back hips or in the helmet ear slots - it will be a real problem.  If he comes out doing that early I will be very concerned - and the first here to acknowledge it.  

And because he's not doing it in practice it would be extra concerning because he just might not be a gamer....just might not be the guy capable of handling the pressure.

Yeah, I like to make jokes about him, but I do hope he figures it out. I haven’t seen it yet, and I think if he was a third round pick we’d never see him take a live snap again. 

[Spoot-Face]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Who here is saying Zach was accurate last year?  It's like since no one is arguing with you anymore you'll just post things no one cares about to start arguments.

We get it, you don't like Zach Wilson, we also get he was bad last year. 

But it really doesn't matter - because last year is over.

I actually thought it was quite interesting to see it broken down like that, even if it wasn't 100% clear what I was looking at.

And of course it matters. Past performance is a window into future performance.

But, if people can't point to negative stats from last year, than you can't point to improvements he made during the final stretch of last year, because the year is over, right?

[Spoot-Face]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

By refusing to acknowledge his growth (or doing so with a snarky acceptance) just reads to me like someone not really even attempting to be fair-minded.   Whether you're doing it on purpose or don't realize - that one I can tell.

By refusing to acknowledge his struggles (or doing so with a snarky acceptance) just reads to me like someone not really even attempting to be fair-minded.   Whether you're doing it on purpose or don't realize - that one I can tell.

 

That kinda goes both ways.

[Matt39]

really sold breakdown of Wilson last year. Just things you wonder if they're possible to clean up. As far as GW's comments and what we've seen to date...I still wonder if his hand size has hurt his ability to make easy throws. I see Pickett wearing the glove on his throwing hand...maybe could help Wilson with grip.

 

 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

He could also be an outrageous outlier that comes out of nowhere to Josh Allen the league. If you’d like to bet on that result, please let me know. Got three kids to put through college.

 

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Nah..

Your wallet is very wise. Listen to it.

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, Spoot-Face said:

I actually thought it was quite interesting to see it broken down like that, even if it wasn't 100% clear what I was looking at.

And of course it matters. Past performance is a window into future performance.

But, if people can't point to negative stats from last year, than you can't point to improvements he made during the final stretch of last year, because the year is over, right?

Surely and completely agree.  But it needs to go both ways.

If you're consistently just pointing to the negative and refusing to acknowledge the positive that's where my argument is.

I think without that chart it was pretty clear to me anyway.  He was, far too often, making it hard on his WR's.  His placement never seemed to be "perfect" and quite often would require a very good catch on a simple play.

But he did seem to solve those big issues after his injury.  Not just the yips but the 10 yard ins that seemed to be behind the receivers more than in their hands.  He seemed to be putting the ball on target later in the season.  He worked through something, got the timing of the offense on track.  Showed growth.  

He's not going to go from what he was last year to a top 5 QB this year - doesn't work that way.  It's going to be a process with him.  The game will slow down but it's going to take time.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

4 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Last season before he was injured it was an issue, after he came back it looked like he worked on his touch a bit. Haven't  seen enough this season of course to know if he corrected it but Wilson pointing it out is an indication he hasn't  worked that out yet. 

Yeah.  Wilson caught all those passes from Z Wilson last season to make that comparison between 2021 Zach and 2022 Zach.  

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

4 hours ago, Bronx said:

Garrett should have kept his opinion to himself, but he was simply echoing locker room conversations.  

Really?  You've actually heard these locker room conversations?  No chance he was a rookie talking off the cuff?  Ok.

[More Cowbell]

12 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Yeah.  Wilson caught all those passes from Z Wilson last season to make that comparison between 2021 Zach and 2022 Zach.  

I know you want to look like the guy that knows more than anyone one that says something negative but if you bothered to read or listen to Garrett, he was comparing Zach to Flacco. The comparison of 2021 and 2022 Zach was made by me. 

Feel stupid now?

Edit

Actually I didn't  even make a year to year comparison nor did anyone else. What I said is if Wilson is saying what he is, it indicates this is still an issue. 

[PorP]

12 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

really sold breakdown of Wilson last year. Just things you wonder if they're possible to clean up. As far as GW's comments and what we've seen to date...I still wonder if his hand size has hurt his ability to make easy throws. I see Pickett wearing the glove on his throwing hand...maybe could help Wilson with grip.

 

 

Nice man.  Maybe one of the best objective videos I've seen! 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, PorP said:

Nice man.  Maybe one of the best objective videos I've seen! 

Yes typically these breakdown videos can be tedious but whoever put this together did a nice job. 

[Spoot-Face]

6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

If you're consistently just pointing to the negative and refusing to acknowledge the positive that's where my argument is.

The problem is, the negative far outweighs the positive, and so, if we're gonna have a discussion and debate using actual statistical evidence, then most of what will be discussed will be slanted towards the negative. To me, that stuff is more interesting than, "you know, I just feel like he will do better", even if I would like to believe that myself.

And you basically just told T0m that he shouldn't post those negative stats because it doesn't fit your narrative and because (and I'm paraphrasing here) "it was last year, so it doesn't matter." Then you accused him of just trying to start an argument.

[FidelioJet]

18 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

really sold breakdown of Wilson last year. Just things you wonder if they're possible to clean up. As far as GW's comments and what we've seen to date...I still wonder if his hand size has hurt his ability to make easy throws. I see Pickett wearing the glove on his throwing hand...maybe could help Wilson with grip.

 

 

It's an interesting video.

Ultimately it comes down to what they're calling processing speed - or from what I can tell - it's more about learning and most importantly trusting the offense.

Just do what you're supposed to do and trust it.  From many of those clips he was just hesitant to let it go.  It was there, he saw it and he held the ball a beat too long.  That's not processing speed as much as it is trusting himself, his reads and the offense.

Whether he can figure that out or not is a legitimate question.  While these guys are more negative than most of these I've seen of him - I get what they're saying and mostly agree.

 

[oatmeal]

31 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Yeah, I like to make jokes about him, but I do hope he figures it out. I haven’t seen it yet, and I think if he was a third round pick we’d never see him take a live snap again. 

Imagine if Fields or Lance becomes dudes, I don’t know how JD survives that!

[pointman]

6 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

He’s not wrong

Zach Wilson looked in college like he could throw with touch and accuracy

But so far in the NFL everything has been one speed just like Sancho  

Not “receiver friendly”

To be fair, Sanchez only threw one speed but it wasn't the speed that Zach throws. Zach throws one speed, blistering. Sanchez threw one speed, wobbly.