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Garrett Wilson talks about the differences between Joe Flacco and Zach Wilson:


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4 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I know you want to look like the guy that knows more than anyone one that says something negative but if you bothered to read or listen to Garrett, he was comparing Zach to Flacco. The comparison of 2021 and 2022 Zach was made by me. 

Feel stupid now?

I know that those 5 passes in 9 snaps before he was injured showed you all you need to see to evaluate 2022 Zach Wilson, QB expert that you are.  People like you on this board who want to move on from Wilson after one season and five preseason passes would also have moved on from over half of the good QBs in NFL history.  Can we just let the kid play another full season before we proclaim he is a  bust or not good enough to warrant moving on? I know that's not fun for people (like you) who want to dissect every pass in practice and preseason as if it was the most important pass in NFL history, but a true evaluation of whether Wilson is the future or not requires time and some patience.  I'm just not ready to bury him or anoint him based on preseason or a few games in 2022.  

If you bothered to read my posts, I'm hardly saying I'm smarter than anyone else. I'm just not trying to "win the internet" by  making some premature statement about a player just so I can say I was right. It takes 2-3 years to evaluate a QB and many here, including you, want to do it in 5 minutes.  

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I highly doubt that, Zach seems like a very likeable kid.

Just like Sam Darnold did, to be fair.  I doubt either were hated by anyone.

Can't speak to that, don't know whats wrong in his head.

The injury occurred on a non-required play in a non-required game. 

But it could have happened anytime.

He hasn't been very good, mostly.  What he will be could be anything, but the odds are against him becoming the FQG we all dream of.

He's just a JAG who had a good game.  

Agreed.

His entire focus was on no INT's, to the detriment of offensive production.  He needs to do both.  

That's moronic in Game 1 of preseason.  Sorry but it is.  Big picture.

That...is a fact.

Maybe your right.  But probably not, because the player is so limited physically.  He reminds me of Taylor Heinke, actually, who did in fact win some games.  And was immediately replaced by a guy with an actual NFL arm.

The first 5 are overreactions from fans.  Not my thoughts.

Agree that Zack shouldn’t have tried to extend the play but to call it hero ball like Bart Scott is off the mark.  

Yes, Mike White isn’t what some thought he was after the Bengals but I’ll give him a bit more of a chance after the Bills game last year and a preseason game he looked rusty in.  Not a chance to start but a chance to show what he has in the preseason before writing him off the roster.  Terms like suck are an overreaction to an overreaction.  

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7 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

The problem is, the negative far outweighs the positive, and so, if we're gonna have a discussion and debate using actual statistical evidence, then most of what will be discussed will be slanted towards the negative. To me, that stuff is more interesting than, "you know, I just feel like he will do better", even if I would like to believe that myself.

And you basically just told T0m that he shouldn't post those negative stats because it doesn't fit your narrative and because (and I'm paraphrasing here) "it was last year, so it doesn't matter." Then you accused him of just trying to start an argument.

Why do you care what I said to Tom?

Tom posts a lot of negative material - and I don't think he would argue with that. - that's his schtick - and good for him.   

I've supported the positive of ZW with plenty of data.  The growth he showed was also clear and obvious to anyone that wasn't blinded by their dislike for the kid.

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26 minutes ago, jgb said:

 

Your wallet is very wise. Listen to it.

You love this betting point - but it's not as cute as you think.

The shot of ANY QB becoming top QB is miniscule.  It's ridiculous to point to Zach and say - I'll bet you he doesn't become a good QB.  It's not exactly a good bet on any QB.  It's a long shot kinda game.

Zach's talent is there and has just as good a shot as any of these guy - but surely still a long way - if you're looking strictly statistically.

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4 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Why do you care what I said to Tom?

Tom posts a lot of negative material - and I don't think he would argue with that. - that's his schtick - and good for him.   

I've supported the positive of ZW with plenty of data.  The growth he showed was also clear and obvious to anyone that wasn't blinded by their dislike for the kid.

Just pointing out your hypocrisy in complaining about people focusing only on the negative and not the positive, when you do the opposite.

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12 minutes ago, pointman said:

Also, G Wilson hates Z Wilson.

Maybe.... but #also...

It's a rookie or... really any receivers job 1 to catch... 2 to communicate with thier QB....

And the WR doesn't get to decide which QB that is... regardless of thier interview words. 

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41 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

really sold breakdown of Wilson last year. Just things you wonder if they're possible to clean up. As far as GW's comments and what we've seen to date...I still wonder if his hand size has hurt his ability to make easy throws. I see Pickett wearing the glove on his throwing hand...maybe could help Wilson with grip.

 

 

This was one of my hangups about Wilson prior to the draft. I did not see the ultra fast processor that some draft guys made him out to be. 

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1 minute ago, Spoot-Face said:

Just pointing out your hypocrisy in complaining about people focusing only on the negative and not the positive, when you do the opposite.

Except it's just not true.  Not even a little really.  Go and look at my posts...

I accept the negative and reference it quite often.  Surely I look for the positive because I like the kid and even agree I'm a bit biased when discussing ZW.  I happen to have really liked Wilson coming out of college and there were just so many here that took a disliking to him long before he made his first throw.  It was pretty ugly around here last pre-season.  

I found myself defending him over utter nonsense like he's going to suck because he was mormon, a blonde has a rich uncle, homophobic slurs, or people telling me he's under 6ft etc...far more than I wanted to - but when we can actually point to numbers I'm all for it - just it's also okay to see the positive too.

Note: I'm also not overtly "positive" to all things Jets. If anything I probably skew toward negative - but the ZW hate at this place was out of control before he had a tough rookie year - now, after throwing a stupid pick in pre-seaon - and even though he's shown clear improvement in camp (plenty of data to support that) it's like open season on him all over again..  

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36 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Really?  You've actually heard these locker room conversations?  No chance he was a rookie talking off the cuff?  Ok.

Do you honestly believe that these guys don't talk amongst each other? 

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Flacco’a way better than Wilson right now, and it’s not close

but so what, you’re never winning a super bowl with Flacco, probably not with Wilson either, but you don’t know that yet for sure, he’s a lottery ticker

give me the powerball ticket over the 7-10 season flacco can give us 

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17 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

I know that those 5 passes in 9 snaps before he was injured showed you all you need to see to evaluate 2022 Zach Wilson, QB expert that you are.  

I'm stopping right here. 

The conversation is Garrett  Wilson was asked what the difference  is between catching passes from Zach and catching passes from Joe. I so many words, he said Joe throws a more reciever friendly ball because he uses touch on the short ones and brings the heat when needed like on an out. So since he says this is the difference, you can draw from that that Zach doesn't  do this. 

The post you responded to was me saying OF COURSE I HAVEN'T  SEEN ENOUGH OF ZACH THIS YEAR BUT WILSON  SAYING THIS WOULD INDICATE ZACH HASN'T  CORRECTED THIS. 

SO STOP JUDGING ME ALREADY.

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36 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You love this betting point - but it's not as cute as you think.

The shot of ANY QB becoming top QB is miniscule.  It's ridiculous to point to Zach and say - I'll bet you he doesn't become a good QB.  It's not exactly a good bet on any QB.  It's a long shot kinda game.

Zach's talent is there and has just as good a shot as any of these guy - but surely still a long way - if you're looking strictly statistically.

If we agree the odds are “minuscule,” why doth thou react so violently to those that express skepticism? It’s like throwing a drink into someone’s face for splitting aces at the blackjack table. Just playing the acknowledged odds, bro. Your fight is with math, not moi.

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9 minutes ago, jgb said:

If we agree the odds are “minuscule,” why doth thou react so violently to those that express skepticism? It’s like throwing a drink into someone’s face for splitting aces at the blackjack table. Just playing the acknowledged odds, bro. Your fight is with math, not moi.

I think "violently" is a bit of overkill - but I get your point..

I react regularly to non-sense/beating-a-dead-drum arguments - the people here that seem to simply dislike this kid and look for any and every reason to attack him - with, quite often, nonsense.

Let's talk about his play on the field in a fair debate and you'll find me quite rationale. 

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6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I think "violently" is a bit of overkill - but I get your point..

I react regularly to non-sense/beating-a-dead-drum arguments - the people here that seem to simply dislike this kid and look for any and every reason to attack him - with, quite often, nonsense.

Let's talk about his play on the field in a rational debate and you'll find me quite rationale. 

I don’t dislike HIM I dislike his odds of becoming a FQB. 100% based on his play on the field. I’ve said before if Mussolini could ball out, I’d want him as a Jet. 

My reaction to “but he’s a good kid”:

Who Cares Tommy Lee Jones GIF

 

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Not a direct comparison but…

”Hey guys, what’s it like catching passes from Gary Kubiak as opposed to John Elway?”

”Well Kubiac throws with a bit more touch.  I don’t end up with broken fingers or welts on my chest”

What’s the guy supposed to say he’s got to support the guy who is playing especially with the career Flacco has had.  Not like he said he reads the field better, has a better arm, or is a better athlete.  He throws a more catchable ball is what he came out with.  Jeez.

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5 minutes ago, jgb said:

I don’t dislike HIM I dislike his odds of becoming a FQB. 100% based on his play on the field. I’ve said before if Mussolini could ball out, I’d want him as a Jet. 

My reaction to “but he’s a good kid”:

Who Cares Tommy Lee Jones GIF

 

He has more natural talent than any QB we've had around here in a VERY long time.  For that reason alone there should be optimism.  

He had some real issue last year - but it certainly seemed like the largest concerns,  he made big strides in fixing .  We seem to want to forget about that around here.  

If we acknowledge he had a very rough start to his career but showed progress against his most major issues - yet he still has a LONG way to go - I think then we have common ground.  But if we're just going to say he suckee last year - so he's a long shot to be good and that just be repeated over and over again then we don't.

The optimism lies in the upside.  He has a top 5 QB skill-set if he can figure this out.

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3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

He has more natural talent than any QB we've had around here in a VERY long time.  For that reason alone there should be optimism.  

He had some real issue last year - but it certainly seemed like the largest concerns,  he made big strides in fixing .  We seem to want to forget about that around here.  

If we acknowledge he had a very rough start to his career but showed progress against his most major issues - yet he still has a LONG way to go - I think then we have common ground.  But if we're just going to say he suckee last year - so he's a long shot to be good and that just be repeated over and over again then we don't.

The optimism lies in the upside.  He has a top 5 QB skill-set if he can figure this out.

This is just a difference of opinion. I believe physical talent — which, I believe you are overestimating IMHO — means something for the draft but very little after a year of game tape. Brain is 99% of what makes a QB… from what I’ve seen, he’s a slow processor and that generally doesn’t get fixed. Hope I am wrong but I have nothing against him as a human being and I also don’t care if he bangs MILFs, GILFs, or FILTFs to his heart’s content. Just play ball.

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1 hour ago, PorP said:

Maybe.... but #also...

It's a rookie or... really any receivers job 1 to catch... 2 to communicate with thier QB....

And the WR doesn't get to decide which QB that is... regardless of thier interview words. 

Lucas Till Riley GIF by CBS

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7 hours ago, Bronx said:

I respect your opinion. However, for Garrett to come out publicly with this statement says a lot. 

I mean, it's not a great statement for Wilson - I agree.  But it is an effort to compliment his current QB, who has over a decade more experience.

7 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

He throws dumpoffs and passes to the flat like he’s trying to throw a fastball

In some cases, just unnecessarily putting it right on top of guys before they can get their hands up 

This is basic stuff 

like if you watch ground passes in soccer, the pros only put as much pace / mustard on a ball as necessary

The goal is to make it as easy as possible to not only handle / receive the pass but for the receiver to make his 1st touch / move into positive space 

Wilson is horrendous at present.  I've never really stated otherwise.  But, he sort of cleaned that up in the back half of the year last year.  What he's doing in TC, I have no idea.  I've only seen him throw 5 passes this year, and two of them were astonishingly bad.

I do understand the mechanisms of throwing a good pass, however.  My take has been that Zach's ball placement is terrible, but his touch certainly improved.

7 hours ago, Spoot-Face said:

Really, I see this more as trying to compliment Flacco, rather than throwing shade on Zach. I thought the comments were more about experience than talent. Of course a 37 year old QB is going to have more experience than a 2nd year guy.

There's a way of reading it that way, for sure.  But, hard not to come away with a disappointing take re: Zach, despite the intent.

6 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Last season before he was injured it was an issue, after he came back it looked like he worked on his touch a bit. Haven't  seen enough this season of course to know if he corrected it but Wilson pointing it out is an indication he hasn't  worked that out yet. 

I agree.

4 hours ago, Supersonic said:

Really?  Didn't a WR just tell you that he is?  Your expert opinion is suspect at best 😆

Well, not exactly.  No, he didn't say that.  He did, however, say Flacco was better.

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Why do you care what I said to Tom?

Tom posts a lot of negative material - and I don't think he would argue with that. - that's his schtick - and good for him.   

I've supported the positive of ZW with plenty of data.  The growth he showed was also clear and obvious to anyone that wasn't blinded by their dislike for the kid.

Zach and MW had the same number of great games last year: 1

Zach: Tennessee

MW: Cincinnati 

So,  the real question is do we have potential FQB in either one?  Probably not because one gets all the reps and the other is 3rd string.  One just gets paid more and is younger.

Gardener Minschew would be good here and is young enough to build a consistency with the offense.  

Somebody has to eat crow and it won’t be JD.  

 

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7 hours ago, Spoot-Face said:

Really, I see this more as trying to compliment Flacco, rather than throwing shade on Zach. I thought the comments were more about experience than talent. Of course a 37 year old QB is going to have more experience than a 2nd year guy.

But he went out of his way to say Flacco throws a more "catchable ball".

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3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

But he went out of his way to say Flacco throws a more "catchable ball".

Eh, he didn't "go out of his way". He was answering a direct question. Seemed like he was just trying to find a way to praise Flacco, which is what most players would do when presented with that kind of question, and anything positive he said could be construed that the reverse is true for Wilson. I just think people are trying to extrapolate too much from what he said.

With that said...

Zach Wilson on Friday = Parks And Recreation Nbc GIF by HULU

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5 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

Eh, he didn't "go out of his way". He was answering a direct question. Seemed like he was just trying to find a way to praise Flacco, which is what most players would do when presented with that kind of question, and anything positive he said could be construed that the reverse is true for Wilson. I just think people are trying to extrapolate too much from what he said.

With that said...

Zach Wilson on Friday = Parks And Recreation Nbc GIF by HULU

We have to have something to overreact to during these long summer weeks 

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