If I was Joe Douglas or Robert Saleh

[section314]

4 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

Speaking of which, can someone please explain the bromance the CS and JD seem to have with Quincy Williams?  I get the high motor, but he's constantly out of position, over pursues, and is a liability in pass coverage.  Do they really think a lack of instincts is coachable?

Could it be who his brother is??

[peekskill68]

12 minutes ago, slats said:

A 4-13 season would be rough, but I think it would only put them on the hot seat in 2023, not get anyone fired. I also don’t think they’re anticipating another 4-13 season. Internally, I’m sure they’ve had a great many conversations between themselves and with the owners about the current state of the QB position. I don’t believe that they’re interested in firing a second straight coach after just two seasons, and I also suspect that they’ll be graded on a curve based on that QB play. 
 
PVO and all that, I’d rather not get into speculative conversations about Zach potentially sucking, but whether he does or not I expect JD and Saleh here in year 3, either with a brand new starter or that Trubisky/Minshew type backup to push him. 

Fair, but I think perhaps a bit too QB centric.  Not having your team ready to play, committing dumb penalties, having your D pushed around, being seen as too much a "player's coach/nice guy", gets a lot of HC's fired quickly (rightly or wrongly).  Pete Carroll comes to mind...

[Spoot-Face]

19 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Except 1 pass is not a trend especially 1 pass in preseason and yet everyone is forcing narratives into this one incident. This has been a wild 3 days since the game and I mean that in the worst way possible.

It's a trend if you consider his past history last season, and I don't know why you wouldn't. He also sailed another routine pass pretty bad. These were all problems that he supposedly fixed in the 2nd half of last season, but now they're rearing their ugly heads again.

It doesn't mean that they weren't temporary hiccups, or jitters, and that he won't correct those mistakes and continue to grow, but to act like it's not a continuation of old patterns and cause for concern is just willful ignorance.

What's worse is that because of the injury, he's likely not going to get any more reps in preseason, and we'll be hoping that he can learn on the fly.

[PorP]

15 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

What positions are you looking to fill before you say the rebuild is over? JD has basically completely turned over Macc's roster.  If we're giving up 200 yds every week on the ground and hitting opposing QB's 3 yds out of bounds, that's on Saleh, and I don't think Woody's going to stand for more airplanes buzzing One Jets Drive next spring...

I could point to depth at multiple positions but it's still a fair question.

As we all recognize, the team is good on paper. Year 2 is about finding out if it's good on the field and where it didn't work as expected.. full roster rebuilds are difficult. 

Off season 3 should be a much more targeted  in FA spending and drafting to fully round out the roster.

Also I have pointed out several times we are right around 30% turn over on our roster from last year.... if I believe @Sarge4Tide 53 man thread, we're probably more like 40%. That takes more time than TC to gel.

If I point to the online and nothing else as an example...... we have 1 player playing the position they did last year. 

[ncjetman]

The #1 priority for the organization is determining whether or not they’re going to go forward with Zach Wilson at QB. He’s going to play when he’s healthy. 
 
Also, JD and Saleh are not worried about their jobs. 

thank you for a reasonable response to an otherwise unreasonable post


Sent from my iPad using JetNation.com mobile app

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, Spoot-Face said:

It's a trend if you consider his past history last season, and I don't know why you wouldn't. He also sailed another routine pass pretty bad. These were all problems that he supposedly fixed in the 2nd half of last season, but now they're rearing their ugly heads again.

It doesn't mean that they weren't temporary hiccups, or jitters, and that he won't correct those mistakes and continue to grow, but to act like it's not a continuation of old patterns and cause for concern is just willful ignorance.

What's worse is that because of the injury, he's likely not going to get any more reps in preseason, and we'll be hoping that he can learn on the fly.

He didn’t sail that first pass.  Well, he did but it wasn’t due to inaccuracy.   He was about to throw it out to the flat and you’ll see a LB jump the route as he was throwing.  Instead if trying to rip in and get picked he essentially threw it away.   
Honestly, go watch it again - I thought what you thought until I rewatched.  

[Spoot-Face]

3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

He didn’t sail that first pass.  Well, he did but it wasn’t due to inaccuracy.   He was about to throw it out to the flat and you’ll see a LB jump the route as he was throwing.  Instead if trying to rip in and get picked he essentially threw it away.   
Honestly, go watch it again - I thought what you thought until I rewatched.  

Not sure I have Gamepass anymore, and I couldn't find that pass on Youtube. If you find it anywhere and kindly link it here, I'll be happy to take another look.

[slats]

10 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

Fair, but I think perhaps a bit too QB centric.  Not having your team ready to play, committing dumb penalties, having your D pushed around, being seen as too much a "player's coach/nice guy", gets a lot of HC's fired quickly (rightly or wrongly).  Pete Carroll comes to mind...

Oh, agreed, that’s exactly what I’m saying. If the team is obviously being held back by QB play, that won’t weigh as heavily as obvious failures of coaching (unprepared, penalties, etc.) will. Firing a second head coach after only two years would be a bad look for the organization. I really believe they want to avoid that. I also think they have some faith in these guys. You don’t hear anything but respect when you hear people around the league speaking of either Saleh or Douglas. I could be projecting, everyone else here does, lol, but I think they’re giving these guys a longer leash. They have to figure out the QB position, though. They need a full evaluation of Zach this year. 

[Darnold's Forehead]

3 hours ago, Untouchable said:

If Zach doesn’t throw that pick on Friday then no one is saying this.

Everyone was excited about the kid stacking good practices, adding more muscle mass to his frame, smashing mature strange, etc.

Again, you guys are basing way too much on pre-season.

Joe Flacco is a solid veteran backup who shouldn’t embarrass himself for a week or two while Zach recuperates.

Zach Wilson is absolutely going to be the starter when he returns, as he should be.

I don't get this.  "If Zach doesn't throw that pick".  Well, he did.  It's not basing too much on preseason; these are plays/formations/looks he will see from opponents during the season (and much more difficult ones at that).  So we can't base things off preseason against opposing defenses, yet "stacking good practices" is supposed to mean something?

He needs to show he is not trending towards being unsalvageable, and in the only preseason action he'll see this year, the only thing he showed was that he still has a DEEP hole to dig himself out of.  We will have to wait and see when games actually matter, as him consistently playing well in the regular season is the only thing that will change my current opinion of him.  Stacking good practices and eating well certainly mean very little, outside of the whole PVO shtick.

[Bugg]

This is speculation, some of it informed. But let's see where this team is after 4 games before we can say for sure what the future holds. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

41 minutes ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

I don't get this.  "If Zach doesn't throw that pick".  Well, he did.  It's not basing too much on preseason; these are plays/formations/looks he will see from opponents during the season (and much more difficult ones at that).  So we can't base things off preseason against opposing defenses, yet "stacking good practices" is supposed to mean something?

He needs to show he is not trending towards being unsalvageable, and in the only preseason action he'll see this year, the only thing he showed was that he still has a DEEP hole to dig himself out of.  We will have to wait and see when games actually matter, as him consistently playing well in the regular season is the only thing that will change my current opinion of him.  Stacking good practices and eating well certainly mean very little, outside of the whole PVO shtick.

"Stacking days" has become one of the more annoying football cliches.

Wilson was a total reach at #2.

There is a collective delusion at 1JD.   At this point, there is so much negative evidence, but at the same time bits and pieces of stuff like the athleticism, live arm, and mobility that are enough to keep Douglas and Saleh hanging on and "invested".

They're looking to avoid inconvenient truths at all costs.

I think they've lost all objectivity at this point.

When you hear Saleh talk about Joe Flacco as if he's Tom Brady, the word delusional also comes to mind.

So basically, I agree with you.  (Your avatar photo creeps me out every time though. )

[kdels62]

3 hours ago, Spoot-Face said:

It's a trend if you consider his past history last season, and I don't know why you wouldn't. He also sailed another routine pass pretty bad. These were all problems that he supposedly fixed in the 2nd half of last season, but now they're rearing their ugly heads again.

It doesn't mean that they weren't temporary hiccups, or jitters, and that he won't correct those mistakes and continue to grow, but to act like it's not a continuation of old patterns and cause for concern is just willful ignorance.

What's worse is that because of the injury, he's likely not going to get any more reps in preseason, and we'll be hoping that he can learn on the fly.

My whole thing has been it was just and instance. Over a bigger sample size there was improvement with these issues. So for now all I’m asking is that people just calm down rather than incessantly pushing a narrative of failure. Something can be not great and not indicative of a larger trend.

[The Crusher]

4 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

You're basing your opinion that Flacco gives them a better chance to win than Wilson does.

I do not believe Joe Douglas or Robert Saleh believe that. 

I actually think they fear it. 

[Integrity28]

4 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

I'm not totally sure about that.  If we produce another 4-13 this year, I think Saleh's in trouble.  I could see Woody backing up the truck for Sean Payton...

Has woody ever hired an experienced HC? I don’t recall anything but first-timers.

[peekskill68]

4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Has woody ever hired an experienced HC? I don’t recall anything but first-timers.

Fair comment...

[Spoot-Face]

19 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

My whole thing has been it was just and instance. Over a bigger sample size there was improvement with these issues. So for now all I’m asking is that people just calm down rather than incessantly pushing a narrative of failure. Something can be not great and not indicative of a larger trend.

There were improvements last year, and you'd hope that they'd career over into this year, but in the closest action we've seen to live football, albeit in a limited sample size, they didn't seem to carry over.

Now, I'm not saying that what we saw on Friday is definitive proof that he currently and forever will suck, but it's not nothing, and I think it's blind homerism to pretend that what happened doesn't matter at all just because it was "preseason".

[Creepy Lurker]

18 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Has woody ever hired an experienced HC? I don’t recall anything but first-timers.

He likes virgins. 

[doitny]

5 hours ago, slats said:

The #1 priority for the organization is determining whether or not they’re going to go forward with Zach Wilson at QB. He’s going to play when he’s healthy. 
 
Also, JD and Saleh are not worried about their jobs. 

well they should be

NY Jets GMs under Woody,

2000- Bill Parcells 9-7

2001-2005 - Terry Bradway 5 yrs 39-41...... 3 playoff years (2-3)

2006-2012 - Mike Tannenbaum 7 yrs 57-55 ........ 3 playoff years (4-3)

2013-2014 - John Idzik 2 yrs 12-20

2015-2018 - Mike Maccagnan 4 yrs 24-40

2019-          Joe Douglas 3 yrs 13-36

JD is heading for that spot. Bradway and Tanney only got 5 years or more because they had some success. JD has to win some games this year or hes gone. and Saleh with him as a new GM will want his own guy. and there we go again.

best thing for us, yes us cause i think JD has put together a good team and i would hate to lose him cause of bad QB play is to have Flacco start 2 or 3 games to start the year. if he does well then that proves to Woody that JD has put together a good team and Saleh can coach them. and Zack comes bad and if hes good that's great, if not then we move on, but we keep JD and Saleh, and they get to pick a new QB.

 

 

[Mogglez]

6 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

I'm not totally sure about that.  If we produce another 4-13 this year, I think Saleh's in trouble.  I could see Woody backing up the truck for Sean Payton...

Sean Payton is not coming here.

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

Sean Payton is not coming here.

 

 

 

[kevinc855]

15 hours ago, slats said:

The #1 priority for the organization is determining whether or not they’re going to go forward with Zach Wilson at QB. He’s going to play when he’s healthy. 
 
Also, JD and Saleh are not worried about their jobs. 

Ehhh. Play when he is healthy is an over simplification. Like I’m sure you believe he should have a solid week of practice first right? Most people agree on that which is why it seems to be trending week 3 is most likely scenario. 

As for Job security, if this season goes off the rails don’t think Saleh seat will not get warm.

JD is tied to Zach. The entire rebuild was centered around his number 2 pick. If Zach doesn’t become what we think, it’s a pretty stunning indictment and def takes that Superman cape allure off him quite a bit. (Not to mention Becton) 

[Smashmouth]

15 hours ago, kdels62 said:

Last year Wilson was excellent in preseason and everyone did the same thing in the other direction. Idk what’s going on with this board but it’s pretty annoying right now.

You said it right here Coaches GM's and Fans want production. When Zach played well in preseason last year he looked the part and I was very excited. When the season started we saw a totally different QB and it lingered he was terrible every week he played up until the injury then all 3 QB's we had moved the offense very well in his absence so what exactly are fans supposed to think at that stage ? Thinking arm talent or leg talent is going to bring consistency to the QB position or constantly talking ceiling will only get you disappointed in the long run. What we are all waiting for is if Zach can process all the information the position requires and up to this stage he has not. So what you see going on with this board is regular fan reaction the player either plays well and gets praise or he plays bad and takes his lumps.

[Biggs]

The only reason to start Flacco is if you think Zach is actually impeding the development of the other young players on O or is throwing hospital balls and getting our skill players killed.  

[JetsMetsDevilsPA]

15 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

This isn't going to happen.

I'm a realist.  They're not beating Baltimore with Mike White either.  But at least allow us to be entertained.  Give us MW.  Or even Chris Steveler.

I'm not so sure about that.  I'm not in love with Mike White but the thing that escapes everybody's mind when were discussing these things is that the O-Line last year was absolutely horrible.  The line has been addressed (not to the extent I would like to see - but definitely better and serviceable) and I think any COMPETENT QB will succeed with the O-Line the way it is.  I think Flacko needs to start but would like to see White get some reps just to know if you have something.

[Maynard13]

21 hours ago, Jet25 said:

With Zach Wilson's injury. This would be the perfect time to take advantage of the situation by starting the veteran QB Flacco.

I would not make a healthy Zach Wilson the starter in week 2 if we beat Baltimore with Flacco

If Flacco is able to win us some games going 2-0 or even 2-1. This will prove to Woody and the fans that this team that JD put together is just a QB away from being great.

Sitting at 2-0, 2-1, or 3-0(miracle) and Zach Wilson returns in week 4 and the offense goes back to struggling. JD nor Saleh will be on the hot seat in 2023 since Flacco proved that we can win with this team.

LOL  ? ??????

Ya gotta love some of the stuff that comes out of people's brains in this place 

[kdels62]

7 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

You said it right here Coaches GM's and Fans want production. When Zach played well in preseason last year he looked the part and I was very excited. When the season started we saw a totally different QB and it lingered he was terrible every week he played up until the injury then all 3 QB's we had moved the offense very well in his absence so what exactly are fans supposed to think at that stage ? Thinking arm talent or leg talent is going to bring consistency to the QB position or constantly talking ceiling will only get you disappointed in the long run. What we are all waiting for is if Zach can process all the information the position requires and up to this stage he has not. So what you see going on with this board is regular fan reaction the player either plays well and gets praise or he plays bad and takes his lumps.

To 1 pass? Last year Wilson showed the ability to limit turnovers as the year went on. So is that really the question? Or is that the question because of 1 pass? 

Consistency is the question but we can’t know that off of 1 pass.

[Jet25]

4 hours ago, Maynard13 said:

LOL  ? ??????

Ya gotta love some of the stuff that comes out of people's brains in this place

You know I'm making sense lol

I want to see if Flacco can win us some games and if he can, we'll know for sure that we can win with decent QB play. Then when ZW returns if he struggles all season and shows us no glimpse of hope then we know that we'll need to address the QB situation. Also him being injured two times now is worrisome. I want ZW to succeed and be our FQB but I'm just throwing my thoughts out there if I wanted to keep myself from the hot seat in 2023

And if we have another top 5 pick......

[Smashmouth]

6 hours ago, kdels62 said:

To 1 pass? Last year Wilson showed the ability to limit turnovers as the year went on. So is that really the question? Or is that the question because of 1 pass? 

Consistency is the question but we can’t know that off of 1 pass.

Its what he did throwing the pass not the result . He stared down his receiver, the LB read it like a book and that should not be happening on a damn 5 yard pass. He limited turnovers last year at the end of the season but did nothing else, in other words he limited turnovers by playing overly conservative and not doing anything worth a crap other than the Tampa Game. When I see him making plays, throwing for over 300 yards, and throwing a few TD's a game also leading TD drives then and only then will I get excited about his progress.

Over the last 7 games he threw 5 TD's that's hardly eye opening he had QBR's of 8, 37, 23, 12, 93, 40 ,19 ... now people want to knock White for his buffalo game yet Zach went 7-20 with 8 sacks and 87 yards passing vs Buffalo. He played scared and played not to turn the ball over that's not a winning formula for an NFL QB unless you are Trent Dilfer playing behind a generational defense which we don't have.

At this point you call for consistency but he's only played 2 good games in his career if he played 5 or 6 of his 13 games good you can call that he needs consistency but he just has never strung anything together. 

[jgb]

On 8/15/2022 at 3:27 PM, slats said:

The #1 priority for the organization is determining whether or not they’re going to go forward with Zach Wilson at QB. He’s going to play when he’s healthy. 
 
Also, JD and Saleh are not worried about their jobs. 

 

We drafted him; let’s see what he is. Sooner the better.

[MARTIN]

Partially agree. I agree that seeing Flacco run with the ones will get everyone another baseline to assess wilson's performances. Just like was exposed when GW was asked about the differences between ZW and JF in practice. That is a good thing, imo. I also think Flacco's experience would pay dividends VS teams like the AFC north where he played for a decade. Probably does offer the Jets a better likelihood of Winning those games due to those circumstances. 

Honestly, i think Zach will struggle with game speed again this year, and postponing that reality feels better. Plus that Flacco revenge game is so comedy! i cant believe the never ending story of being a jets fan.

[Maynard13]

6 hours ago, Jet25 said:

You know I'm making sense lol

I want to see if Flacco can win us some games and if he can, we'll know for sure that we can win with decent QB play. Then when ZW returns if he struggles all season and shows us no glimpse of hope then we know that we'll need to address the QB situation. Also him being injured two times now is worrisome. I want ZW to succeed and be our FQB but I'm just throwing my thoughts out there if I wanted to keep myself from the hot seat in 2023

And if we have another top 5 pick......

Be careful what you throw out there

 

[Maynard13]

On 8/15/2022 at 3:27 PM, slats said:

The #1 priority for the organization is determining whether or not they’re going to go forward with Zach Wilson at QB. He’s going to play when he’s healthy. 
 
Also, JD and Saleh are not worried about their jobs. 

Probably the most logical argument ever presented on this site. 

[kdels62]

11 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Its what he did throwing the pass not the result . He stared down his receiver, the LB read it like a book and that should not be happening on a damn 5 yard pass. He limited turnovers last year at the end of the season but did nothing else, in other words he limited turnovers by playing overly conservative and not doing anything worth a crap other than the Tampa Game. When I see him making plays, throwing for over 300 yards, and throwing a few TD's a game also leading TD drives then and only then will I get excited about his progress.

Over the last 7 games he threw 5 TD's that's hardly eye opening he had QBR's of 8, 37, 23, 12, 93, 40 ,19 ... now people want to knock White for his buffalo game yet Zach went 7-20 with 8 sacks and 87 yards passing vs Buffalo. He played scared and played not to turn the ball over that's not a winning formula for an NFL QB unless you are Trent Dilfer playing behind a generational defense which we don't have.

At this point you call for consistency but he's only played 2 good games in his career if he played 5 or 6 of his 13 games good you can call that he needs consistency but he just has never strung anything together. 

That’s why I’m not crowning him. My big concern is that he went conservative and the coaching staff seems to want conservative play. Striking balance between his Titans game heroics and his end of season ball protection im should be the goal. 

The differences in his game against the Bills and Mike White’s are vast. Beginning with a barebones OL and continuing to Keelan Cole as WR1 and progressing into 50 mph winds. All that being said I’m not asking for Rose-colored glasses, he obviously sucked in that game. Right now tho I’m asking for less definitive statements and more analysis. 

For instance on the interception he didn’t stare down the receiver he read the flat and saw the safety coming down. He got fooled by the rotating LB. Throw was a little late and it’s generally a bad play. Maybe he learned from it. Last season he got picked on a corner route against Atlanta he didn’t get intercepted on the concept the rest of the year. 

My frustration is just that there seems to be an excessive desire on this board to call Zach a bust when no one actually knows anything and this one pass doesn’t tell us one way or another. No conclusions or chest pounding should come from 1 pass especially in the preseason. 

[Alka]

On 8/15/2022 at 3:27 PM, slats said:

The #1 priority for the organization is determining whether or not they’re going to go forward with Zach Wilson at QB. He’s going to play when he’s healthy. 
 
Also, JD and Saleh are not worried about their jobs. 

I agree with everything you've said, but for me, I just want to see the Jets win.  And I believe that Joe Flacco gives the Jets the best chance to win. 

That doesn't change anything though.  Like you said, the Jets must be able to determine if Zach is the guy or not, and the only way to find that out, is to start Zach when he's ready.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

Can we just stop with the Flacco adulation?  Flacco was an average to below average QB who had one glorious post season.  His typical season was 62% completion percentage, 3500-3800 yards, 21 TDs, 14 Ints, and a 6.8 YPA. Those are not good.  And it came with playing for a very good team with a talented roster and a top defense.  Flacco is fine as a stop gap back up, but if Wilson doesn't play in 2022, what happens in 2023?  The most important issue for 2022 is to see if Wilson can be the starting QB for the Jets going forward.  That is what happens when you draft a QB at #2. If Wilson sits behind Flacco for all of 2022 because Flacco is perceived as playing better, the Jets are in a bind going forward.    

If Wilson stinks, it is time to move on and draft another QB (I'm not a fan of the free agent or trade route - the Stafford and Wilson trades are anomalies and it is unlikely a QB of that caliber is available next season and I'm no fan of going the Darnold/Trubisky failed retread route). If Wilson improves from bad to OK, he gets 2023. If Wilson improves dramatically, you start thinking long term (knowing there are no guarantees).

Flacco should not be the QB for any game at all after Wilson recovers, no matter how well he plays in his 1-2 game starting gig.  An old Flacco is not going to be the Jets QB in 2023 and is not leading this team to postseason glory.  If he does this season, it will be Fitztragic -like fools gold. If Flacco is the Jets QB in 2022, the Jets will back to square 1 with the QB position.