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If I was Joe Douglas or Robert Saleh


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On 8/15/2022 at 12:35 PM, kdels62 said:

Last year Wilson was excellent in preseason and everyone did the same thing in the other direction. Idk what’s going on with this board but it’s pretty annoying right now.

I disagree, interscrimage play was good until he faced other teams in scrimages and he was bad... and it carried over into the season. 

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3 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Flacco is fine as a stop gap back up, but if Wilson doesn't play in 2022, what happens in 2023?  The most important issue for 2022 is to see if Wilson can be the starting QB for the Jets going forward.  

If Wilson stinks, it is time to move on and draft another QB 

I agree with you about ZW.

I'm just okay with Flacco starting for a few games to see if we can win or at least be competitive and then let ZW start the rest of the way.

If ZW was able to start the season and stinks as well as the team then JD could be gone after this season

I think Flacco can save JD's job with decent QB play and believe that's what JD will plan to try and save himself from being on the hot seat.

This isn't about bashing ZW but mainly JD's job security 

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19 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Its what he did throwing the pass not the result . He stared down his receiver, the LB read it like a book and that should not be happening on a damn 5 yard pass. He limited turnovers last year at the end of the season but did nothing else, in other words he limited turnovers by playing overly conservative and not doing anything worth a crap other than the Tampa Game. When I see him making plays, throwing for over 300 yards, and throwing a few TD's a game also leading TD drives then and only then will I get excited about his progress.

Over the last 7 games he threw 5 TD's that's hardly eye opening he had QBR's of 8, 37, 23, 12, 93, 40 ,19 ... now people want to knock White for his buffalo game yet Zach went 7-20 with 8 sacks and 87 yards passing vs Buffalo. He played scared and played not to turn the ball over that's not a winning formula for an NFL QB unless you are Trent Dilfer playing behind a generational defense which we don't have.

At this point you call for consistency but he's only played 2 good games in his career if he played 5 or 6 of his 13 games good you can call that he needs consistency but he just has never strung anything together. 

Here's where the Zach haters falter: because of their bias against Zach, in their minds they weigh and prioritize the BAD an order of magnitude (10X) or more than thre good. 

So in their minds, the first NE game and the Buffalo game are MUCH  more indicative of his play than the TB which is dismissed almost entirely.

I bad interception in a preseason game is more probative than ANY TD he he has thrown

I case of "staring down the receiver" nullifies the 100 times he didn't and represents  a trend. 

The same is true of Zach homers in thar the GOOD far outweighs the bad. I am an unabashed Zzch fan but not a homer. I think there are many reasons  to think he will improve but I am not sure he will and I definitely do not think he is a sure fire bust either.

Ask any Zach hater especially after this first game and they will confidently state he us a receiver staring down slow processing turnover machine. But is he? 

In one game he certainly was throwing 4 picks against NE in one of his early games. However if you take away that game, in the other 12 he had an INT % of 2 which is actually good.

One interception in preseason is of such low probative value that it is completely meaningless. Plus Iit could have been a receiver issue as well in running the wrong route or not crossing the face of the SAM instead of being behind him.

Basically if you hate Zach all you see is the bad which just reinforces your subjective bias.

Like I have said uf you hate Zach just own it don't try to make it seem reasoned or logical with wild scenarios or over analysis of the bad as if that us all he does.

 

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On 8/15/2022 at 3:44 PM, Untouchable said:

If he’s doing stuff like this when he comes back from injury and the games actually count, then get worried.

Pre-season means dick yet everyone always falls back into the same trap every August when it finally rolls back around.

Joe Flacco isn’t the future of the Jets. Mike White isn’t the future of the Jets. Chris f*cking Streveler isn’t the future of the Jets.

Zach Wilson may not turn out to be the future of the Jets either, but he sure as hell has a better chance than the other 3.

Our luck, Streveler will be the future of the Pats. Zach will have a nice career in the broadcast booth. 

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1 hour ago, Jet25 said:

I agree with you about ZW.

I'm just okay with Flacco starting for a few games to see if we can win or at least be competitive and then let ZW start the rest of the way.

If ZW was able to start the season and stinks as well as the team then JD could be gone after this season

I think Flacco can save JD's job with decent QB play and believe that's what JD will plan to try and save himself from being on the hot seat.

This isn't about bashing ZW but mainly JD's job security 

JD's job security is NOT tied to Joe Flacco winning a game or two in September.  There is no reason to bench Wilson so Flacco - who was never a great QB and is certainly not one now in the twilight of his career- can play a handful of games early in the season.   Since when did Flacco become the Jets messiah?  

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On 8/15/2022 at 3:29 PM, Untouchable said:

If Zach doesn’t throw that pick on Friday then no one is saying this.

Everyone was excited about the kid stacking good practices, adding more muscle mass to his frame, smashing mature strange, etc.

Again, you guys are basing way too much on pre-season.

Joe Flacco is a solid veteran backup who shouldn’t embarrass himself for a week or two while Zach recuperates.

Zach Wilson is absolutely going to be the starter when he returns, as he should be.

There’s a whole contingent who didn’t want him over whoever and just are unwilling to let him take his lumps and learn the NFL game.  They can’t even wait to see if all the good work in summer camp means this would be a better season.  

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On 8/15/2022 at 3:29 PM, Untouchable said:

If Zach doesn’t throw that pick on Friday then no one is saying this.

Everyone was excited about the kid stacking good practices, adding more muscle mass to his frame, smashing mature strange, etc.

Again, you guys are basing way too much on pre-season.

Joe Flacco is a solid veteran backup who shouldn’t embarrass himself for a week or two while Zach recuperates.

Zach Wilson is absolutely going to be the starter when he returns, as he should be.

I think you’re mostly right but context is important.  He threw a similar interception in the scrimmage.  Slightly different route but locking on to a receiver so much that the route was easily jumped.  
 

Plus this is the first the vast majority of us have seen him play since last year.  He comes out and throws an awful pass to an open G Wilson on a simple out.  Horrible pass, no way around it.  Then as bad as an interception you’ll see in the pro game.  A couple good passes mixed in.

Then he gets hurt.  It was more than just an int. It’s one thing to play well in practice, you actually have to show up for the games.

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1 hour ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

JD's job security is NOT tied to Joe Flacco winning a game or two in September.  There is no reason to bench Wilson so Flacco - who was never a great QB and is certainly not one now in the twilight of his career- can play a handful of games early in the season.   Since when did Flacco become the Jets messiah?  

Of course it's not tied to Flacco. I never mentioned about benching Wilson...

I'm just saying IF this team can win with Flacco but not with Wilson and showing no improvement, should JD be on the hot seat?

Bart Scott came out today or yesterday about JD needs to have Flacco start a few games to show the results of this team then let ZW back out there

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46 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I think you’re mostly right but context is important.  He threw a similar interception in the scrimmage.  Slightly different route but locking on to a receiver so much that the route was easily jumped.  
 

Plus this is the first the vast majority of us have seen him play since last year.  He comes out and throws an awful pass to an open G Wilson on a simple out.  Horrible pass, no way around it.  Then as bad as an interception you’ll see in the pro game.  A couple good passes mixed in.

Then he gets hurt.  It was more than just an int. It’s one thing to play well in practice, you actually have to show up for the games.

The overthrow to G. Wilson was sh*t, you won’t get an argument out of me on that one.

If Zach ends up panning out, I think you’re still just going to have to live with the boneheaded play here and there. Very similar to a Favre or Namath.

His playstyle is similar to Rodgers, but I don’t think you’re ever going to get that level of efficiency out of him.

And that’s fine. Rodgers could walk away tomorrow and still be universally considered Top 10 all-time at the most important position in the game.

I think it’s goofy how in the minds of many, Wilson needs to achieve that level or be tossed in the trash. Namath isn’t on that level yet he’s revered as a god amongst this fanbase based on raw ability and a poolside guarantee while banging Hollywood starlets of his heyday.

Namath’s cool factor and that lone SB win trumps everything else…

By the time I became a fan, his knees were shot to sh*t and my dad and uncles were ready to turn the page before he travelled west.

Zach Wilson doesn’t need to be Namath or some all-time great in order to be a success.

Silly ass Jets fans act like Wilson having a Joe Flacco or Andy Dalton type of career would be a massive letdown. Despite Kenny O’Brien  still being the only semblance of a sustained franchise QB this team has had in half a century.

Wilson may very well end up being a bust.

But the people who believe that Mike White is some grand alternative instead of a limited 3rd stringer who caught lightning in a bottle for 3 hours are smoothbrains of the highest order.

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38 minutes ago, Jet25 said:

Of course it's not tied to Flacco. I never mentioned about benching Wilson...

I'm just saying IF this team can win with Flacco but not with Wilson and showing no improvement, should JD be on the hot seat?

No he shouldn’t be on the hot seat If Flacco wins it shows that JD has assembled or at least has the makings of a NFL roster. After Flacco wins and Zach takes over and loses then we are well on the way to find his replacement which I hope would be Jimmy G   This team with Garropolo (even with his one or two boneheaded decisions once a game)  at the helm is probably a  playoff team as it stands now. 

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On 8/15/2022 at 3:35 PM, kdels62 said:

Last year Wilson was excellent in preseason and everyone did the same thing in the other direction. Idk what’s going on with this board but it’s pretty annoying right now.

What is annoying is listening to the "we're a good football team and have gotten better" nonsense coming from Florham Park every Summer, only to come out looking like a joke the first 6-8 games every season, and having our season be over by October 15. This offseason has been no different in terms of talk. Everyone is reacting to ZW's piss poor throw Friday, and seeing him almost tear his knee up without even being touched after hearing how much better his conditioning is, and how he gained muscle etc. Speaking for myself, I am sick of listening to the NY Jets and their media puppets talk. 50 years of talk for me with maybe 10 good years sprinkled in. Yes, it's only PSG 1 but it couldn't have gone worse for us at all.

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31 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

The overthrow to G. Wilson was sh*t, you won’t get an argument out of me on that one.

If Zach ends up panning out, I think you’re still just going to have to live with the boneheaded play here and there. Very similar to a Favre or Namath.

His playstyle is similar to Rodgers, but I don’t think you’re ever going to get that level of efficiency out of him.

And that’s fine. Rodgers could walk away tomorrow and still be universally considered Top 10 all-time at the most important position in the game.

I think it’s goofy how in the minds of many, Wilson needs to achieve that level or be tossed in the trash. Namath isn’t on that level yet he’s revered as a god amongst this fanbase based on raw ability and a poolside guarantee while banging Hollywood starlets of his heyday.

Namath’s cool factor and that lone SB win trumps everything else…

By the time I became a fan, his knees were shot to sh*t and my dad and uncles were ready to turn the page before he travelled west.

Zach Wilson doesn’t need to be Namath or some all-time great in order to be a success.

Silly ass Jets fans act like Wilson having a Joe Flacco or Andy Dalton type of career would be a massive letdown. Despite Kenny O’Brien  still being the only semblance of a sustained franchise QB this team has had in half a century.

Wilson may very well end up being a bust.

But the people who believe that Mike White is some grand alternative instead of a limited 3rd stringer who caught lightning in a bottle for 3 hours are smoothbrains of the highest order.

This is an excellent post.

 

agree completely with how you described Wilson - he feels like a guy who will always be erratic. The key to Wilson making it is to unlock his big play potential. We need more deep shots and more big plays out of him this year. 

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It's pretty easy.

Flacco has a higher floor, lower ceiling.  He's an older veteran.  Perfect backup.

Wilson has a lower floor but higher ceiling.  Young guy getting experience.  He's the future.

When Wilson is 100% healthy he goes back in.

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4 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Here's where the Zach haters falter: because of their bias against Zach, in their minds they weigh and prioritize the BAD an order of magnitude (10X) or more than thre good. 

So in their minds, the first NE game and the Buffalo game are MUCH  more indicative of his play than the TB which is dismissed almost entirely.

I bad interception in a preseason game is more probative than ANY TD he he has thrown

I case of "staring down the receiver" nullifies the 100 times he didn't and represents  a trend. 

The same is true of Zach homers in thar the GOOD far outweighs the bad. I am an unabashed Zzch fan but not a homer. I think there are many reasons  to think he will improve but I am not sure he will and I definitely do not think he is a sure fire bust either.

Ask any Zach hater especially after this first game and they will confidently state he us a receiver staring down slow processing turnover machine. But is he? 

In one game he certainly was throwing 4 picks against NE in one of his early games. However if you take away that game, in the other 12 he had an INT % of 2 which is actually good.

One interception in preseason is of such low probative value that it is completely meaningless. Plus Iit could have been a receiver issue as well in running the wrong route or not crossing the face of the SAM instead of being behind him.

Basically if you hate Zach all you see is the bad which just reinforces your subjective bias.

Like I have said uf you hate Zach just own it don't try to make it seem reasoned or logical with wild scenarios or over analysis of the bad as if that us all he does.

 

As for the interception I only pointed it out because he should not be doing that at this stage especially after all the work he put in . He didn't see the LB because he never took his eyes off the receiver or even tried to look off the play since he knew where he was going. 

In no way shape or form do I hate Zach I just post exactly what I see if that pisses off some people so be it, since its the truth. I gave him credit for the games he played well, it says it in my post. I have a lot of promise for Zach but I had promise for Sanchez and Penny as well and I felt Darnold was a dumpster fire in college and when we drafted him . Sanchez never really panned out and he had plenty of talent Penny was just damaged and that was the biggest let down of all because he had what it took upstairs.

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56 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

This is an excellent post.

 

agree completely with how you described Wilson - he feels like a guy who will always be erratic. The key to Wilson making it is to unlock his big play potential. We need more deep shots and more big plays out of him this year. 

This is really what I’ve been trying to get at

I have zero issue with people being skeptical about Zach being the longterm solution.

But when you’re trying to overcompensate by trying to pump up Mike f*cking White being anything more than a 6’4 Brooks Bollinger based on one performance in which he didn’t even finish the game healthy…LOL

Odds heavily favor the Jets rolling with a completely different QB room 2 years from now…but I’m sure as hell not actively rooting for this obviously limited, flash in the pan guy to overtake the player that we just drafted #2 overall less than 18 months ago.

I guess I’m just crazy like that…

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2 hours ago, Untouchable said:

The overthrow to G. Wilson was sh*t, you won’t get an argument out of me on that one.

If Zach ends up panning out, I think you’re still just going to have to live with the boneheaded play here and there. Very similar to a Favre or Namath.

His playstyle is similar to Rodgers, but I don’t think you’re ever going to get that level of efficiency out of him.

And that’s fine. Rodgers could walk away tomorrow and still be universally considered Top 10 all-time at the most important position in the game.

I think it’s goofy how in the minds of many, Wilson needs to achieve that level or be tossed in the trash. Namath isn’t on that level yet he’s revered as a god amongst this fanbase based on raw ability and a poolside guarantee while banging Hollywood starlets of his heyday.

Namath’s cool factor and that lone SB win trumps everything else…

By the time I became a fan, his knees were shot to sh*t and my dad and uncles were ready to turn the page before he travelled west.

Zach Wilson doesn’t need to be Namath or some all-time great in order to be a success.

Silly ass Jets fans act like Wilson having a Joe Flacco or Andy Dalton type of career would be a massive letdown. Despite Kenny O’Brien  still being the only semblance of a sustained franchise QB this team has had in half a century.

Wilson may very well end up being a bust.

But the people who believe that Mike White is some grand alternative instead of a limited 3rd stringer who caught lightning in a bottle for 3 hours are smoothbrains of the highest order.

Very fair post.  Let’s just hope he’s not Sam Darnold ;).

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1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

This is an excellent post.

 

agree completely with how you described Wilson - he feels like a guy who will always be erratic. The key to Wilson making it is to unlock his big play potential. We need more deep shots and more big plays out of him this year. 

Another great post.  But some of us worry that he might be playing a bit scared to take those shots.  You never want to take away strengths even if they don’t fit perfectly into your system.

It might come down to letting him be him, which is what you and @Untouchable are describing.  Not to turn him into a game manager afraid to take risks.  His game is risk taking and there is a reward and also sometimes a downside to it.

 

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4 hours ago, Jet25 said:

Of course it's not tied to Flacco. I never mentioned about benching Wilson...

I'm just saying IF this team can win with Flacco but not with Wilson and showing no improvement, should JD be on the hot seat?

Bart Scott came out today or yesterday about JD needs to have Flacco start a few games to show the results of this team then let ZW back out there

Bart Scott is so anti-Wilson that it's a joke. His commentary after the 4th down QB sneak vs the Bucs last year was so off it was embarrassing - for him. I don't care what he says after that position he took last year. He will say anything now to support his view that Wilson is not good.  His suggestion is ridiculous. If that happens organically, fine. But Wilson plays when he is healthy, hopefully week 1 - or 2.  Then he plays for the rest of the season.  Then he is evaluated.  This is not a QB competition.

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