Zach's surgery is a success

[munchmemory]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

We have to know what he is with a reasonable degree of certainty at the end of this season. It’s probably the most important KPI this year.

Yeah, I guess.  But who truly, in their hearts, believes Zach will make a monumental jump into the realm of a competent NFL QB?   Very few. The prospect of watching his play again this season just adds truck loads onto the mountain of my already staggering depression. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Great news!  Wow was I wrong on this.  You dont see many non-contact injuries where the knee buckles like that have this little damage.  Well, I am glad I learned something here.

Thanks to all for pointing out how wrong I was.  I will defer to you on diagnosing injuries moving forward.

Hopefully, Zach can use this as another learning experience and improve like he did when he missed time last year.

We are back Jet fans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You think? ?

[munchmemory]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

You think? ?

Digging out of that massive ditch with two brand new shovels.

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Digging out of that massive ditch with two brand new shovels.

Kind of like digging, throwing the dirt over you shoulder right back into the hole and never getting out

 

[jgb]

18 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Yeah, I guess.  But who truly, in their hearts, believes Zach will make a monumental jump into the realm of a competent NFL QB?

I’d like to find these people and bet them but confidence wilts whenever a wager is suggested.

18 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

 

  Very few. The prospect of watching his play again this season just adds truck loads onto the mountain of my already staggering depression. 

Agree but imagine the alternative when we give him 2023 because “it’s not his fault he got hurt and he deserves [maybe my least favorite word in the English language] a shot to see what he can do with a real supporting cast.”

Either we are sacrificing 1 year or 2 waiting for him. I choose 1.

[jeremy2020]

19 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Yeah, I guess.  But who truly, in their hearts, believes Zach will make a monumental jump into the realm of a competent NFL QB?   Very few. The prospect of watching his play again this season just adds truck loads onto the mountain of my already staggering depression. 

I don't, but the Arizona situation is incredibly rare. Going into year 3 with doubts would be awful.. look at Miami. They spent a TON of money to find out if Tua is the guy in year 3 (2022) and if he's not.. they're wasting a lot of expensive contracts and will be losing a lot of that defense after the 2022 and 2023 seasons if they have to start over with a rookie next season. Given the crazy amount of round 1-3 picks they've had.. that would be devastating for them.

Jets have a very similar situation.. they got a crazy team to give them a ton of assets for a questionable player. If they are trying to answer the Wilson question in year 3.. well then we're back to Mac's rebuild of his own rebuild in 2024 even if Wilson shows he belongs. 

[Jetluv58]

27 minutes ago, Bugg said:

I was, in part, though not in part about the Jets' medical staff. If all he had was a torn meniscus, there was no point to flying cross country to do such surgery. Appears though based of Adam Schecter's tweet of yesterday, there was concern there may have been more of an injury. No matter; there are plenty of great and elite orthopedic surgeons not affiliated with the Jets' medical staff in and near NYC  who would have been as good as the Dodgers/Rams doctor. He could have instead also taken an hour's flight to Boston, same thing. There are in fact so many on the East Coast that getting a 2nd opinion from such a doctor would have been easy too. Stand by the point that flying cross country to do such a surgery was in fact silly. 

Why does it matter? 

[FidelioJet]

16 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Yeah, I guess.  But who truly, in their hearts, believes Zach will make a monumental jump into the realm of a competent NFL QB?   Very few. The prospect of watching his play again this season just adds truck loads onto the mountain of my already staggering depression. 

I think the Jets organization, front office and coaching staff believe it.

Who better to know about his progress - surely they can be wrong, but I suspect they have a bit more knowledge than you do  

[munchmemory]

33 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I think the Jets organization, front office and coaching staff believe it.

Who better to know about his progress - surely they can be wrong, but I suspect they have a bit more knowledge than you do  

I don't claim to know anything.  Just ask my wife.   I'm going by what I have seen fro Zach Wilson. at least so far, it has not been pretty.

[slimjasi]

10 minutes ago, jgb said:

Agree but imagine the alternative when we give him 2023 because “it’s not his fault he got hurt and he deserves [maybe my least favorite word in the English language] a shot to see what he can do with a real supporting cast.”

Either we are sacrificing 1 year or 2 waiting for him. I choose 1.

Yes, if he’s going to bust, we’d like him to bust earlier than later 

 

Also, that’s what she said 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Yes, if he’s going to bust, we’d like him to bust earlier than later 

 

Also, that’s what she said 

[Nixhead]

I think a lot depends on how the team and Flacco does. If the Jets and Flacco kill it game 1 then the Jets take their time getting Zach back. If Flacco sucks and the Jets lose it’s get Zach ready ASAP. Joe Douglas and Salad need to win games this season. As much as they need to develop Zach this is a team game and not all about Zach - mostly but not all. I can’t see them pulling Flacco game 2 if the Jets have a great game 1  I just can’t  

 

[Warfish]

13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I think the Jets organization, front office and coaching staff believe it.

Who better to know about his progress - surely they can be wrong, but I suspect they have a bit more knowledge than you do  

Conversely, they are also well aware that their own personal employment futures are directly tied to Zach Wilson, and don't really have many choices other than "believe it" in the short term.

If Zach busts, they're likely both out of a job.  Jets ownership rarely lets the same GM/Coach pick more than one 1st round QB.

 

[FidelioJet]

24 minutes ago, jgb said:

I’d like to find these people and bet them but confidence wilts whenever a wager is suggested.

Agree but imagine the alternative when we give him 2023 because “it’s not his fault he got hurt and he deserves [maybe my least favorite word in the English language] a shot to see what he can do with a real supporting cast.”

Either we are sacrificing 1 year or 2 waiting for him. I choose 1.

I'm one of them.

My heart tells me he's the real deal - but as you point out, the data says something different.   If I put bets on simply following my heart I wouldn't be able to afford an internet connection to even have this discussion.

ZW has the tools, has the work ethic, he just has to calm the **** down.  Whether he can figure out how to do that before his chance is up is another question.  But I have "confidence" he will.

[Alka]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes, I think he does.

Two reasons:

1) The Jets as a whole are committed to developing Zach Wilson - and that is the single biggest priority of the entire organization.  Getting him reps is still their priority

2) I also believe Joe Douglas and Robert Saleh believe Zach Wilson gives them the best chance to win right now.  Surely if they had a Jimmy G type that would be different - but the 37 year old version of Flacco isn't that.

I strongly agree with your reason #1.  I'm not fully sold on your reason #2 however.  I guess it really will depend on how Joe Flacco does in week #1.  Wilson had an up and down year last year, and the team really needs consistency from that position.  I do not believe that Zach gives us that at the moment.  Up until he got hurt in preseason game #1, he didn't show me much.  We will see!

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Conversely, they are also well aware that their own personal employment futures are directly tied to Zach Wilson, and don't really have many choices other than "believe it" in the short term.

If Zach busts, they're likely both out of a job.  Jets ownership rarely lets the same GM/Coach pick more than one 1st round QB.

 

I think this is fair.

Although I hope it's wrong in that if ZW fails I would very much like to keep JD.  At worst he's competent, and that's far better than we've had in a long time.

Saleh, I have no objective opinion yet.

[Lith]

2 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I fully expect a mono diagnosis between week 1 and 2.

No punch in the jaw though.  

[Ghost420]

1 hour ago, Bugg said:

Is surgery ever not a success?

 

Anything can happen when you are put under 

[JustInFudge]

Great news, just sucks he missing valuable camp time but at least it wont be long before he's back on the field.

[UnknownJetFan]

2 hours ago, SickJetFan said:

omg this board had him in his coffin just few days ago now throwing out weeks 2 or 3

 

i say he back at practice 10 days from now hes a ******* 23 year old viral milf ****er for chris sake not some 392 pound 30 something fat slob lineman

Last statement sounds like a little bit of a dig at Becton minus the age.

[jgb]

22 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm one of them.

My heart tells me he's the real deal - but as you point out, the data says something different.   If I put bets on simply following my heart I wouldn't be able to afford an internet connection to even have this discussion.

ZW has the tools, has the work ethic, he just has to calm the **** down.  Whether he can figure out how to do that before his chance is up is another question.  But I have "confidence" he will.

I sure hope he will… but confidence, no way.

[oatmeal]

56 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I think the Jets organization, front office and coaching staff believe it.

Who better to know about his progress - surely they can be wrong, but I suspect they have a bit more knowledge than you do  

Nobody on this Jets staff developed a franchise QB, they know as much as we do

[FidelioJet]

9 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Nobody on this Jets staff developed a franchise QB, they know as much as we do

They just have a boat load more of data available to them.  We have the games - they have everything else they know and see of the kid.  Has he been showing progress is camp? real tangible growth?  We don't know - we just know what we've heard..but does Connor Hughes (or whoever) really know what they're talking about?

The coaches have the proper information to make that determination.   I will agree, after a full-season we'll have enough data from watching the games to make a determination.

What we know from last year, watching games, was --- Zach was terrible early - got hurt - and came back and seemed to have mostly solved the major issues that plagued him - while not putting up big numbers - he seemed to have recognized his major mistakes and fixed them.  That's usually a pretty good sign for a young QB.  

With all of that said, I do mostly agree, that coaches get caught up like everyone else.  and we, as fans, can be pretty good judges from watching games.  

[SoFlaJets]

In The Woody Johnson Error The Jets have drafted 13 Quartebacks

 

If I owned this team I would stop drafting QBs altogether. I would look to sign the best guy who still has 5-7 left in his tank and build my team around that. The Jets have zero luck drafting quarterbacks

2000-1st Rd #18 Chad Pennington

2003-6th Rd #200 Brooks Bollinger

2006-2nd Rd #49 Kellen Clemens (Brad Smith was also picked listed as a QB but he wasn't one

2008-5th Rd #162 Erik Ainge

2009 1st Rd #5 Mark Sanchez

2011 Rd 7 #208 Greg McElroy

2013 Rd 2 #39 Geno Smith

2014 6th Rd #214 Tajh Boyd

2015 4th Rd #103 Bryce Petty 

 2016 2nd Rd #51 Christian Hackenberg

2018 1st Rd #3 Sam Darnold

2020 4th Rd #125 James Morgan

2021 1st Rd #2 Zach Wilson

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

I don't, but the Arizona situation is incredibly rare. Going into year 3 with doubts would be awful.. look at Miami. They spent a TON of money to find out if Tua is the guy in year 3 (2022) and if he's not.. they're wasting a lot of expensive contracts and will be losing a lot of that defense after the 2022 and 2023 seasons if they have to start over with a rookie next season. Given the crazy amount of round 1-3 picks they've had.. that would be devastating for them.

Jets have a very similar situation.. they got a crazy team to give them a ton of assets for a questionable player. If they are trying to answer the Wilson question in year 3.. well then we're back to Mac's rebuild of his own rebuild in 2024 even if Wilson shows he belongs. 

I would guess that LaFleur and Saleh know exactly what they have in Zach Wilson and their real evaluation process is finding out what the offense looks like with a median starter in Joe Flacco. I don’t think they’d do it because it would take serious amounts of sack, but if they determine Flacco or White is, at this point, a clear upgrade on what Zach was giving them, they could probably get a pretty nifty return if they elected to trade him. Teams would still be interested in the potential, and he’d be dirt cheap for them. 

[FidelioJet]

7 minutes ago, SoFlaJets said:

In The Woody Johnson Error The Jets have drafted 13 Quartebacks

 

If I owned this team I would stop drafting QBs altogether. I would look to sign the best guy who still has 5-7 left in his tank and build my team around that. The Jets have zero luck drafting quarterbacks

2000-1st Rd #18 Chad Pennington

2003-6th Rd #200 Brooks Bollinger

2006-2nd Rd #49 Kellen Clemens (Brad Smith was also picked listed as a QB but he wasn't one

2008-5th Rd #162 Erik Ainge

2009 1st Rd #5 Mark Sanchez

2011 Rd 7 #208 Greg McElroy

2013 Rd 2 #39 Geno Smith

2014 6th Rd #214 Tajh Boyd

2015 4th Rd #103 Bryce Petty 

 2016 2nd Rd #51 Christian Hackenberg

2018 1st Rd #3 Sam Darnold

2020 4th Rd #125 James Morgan

2021 1st Rd #2 Zach Wilson

in fairness.  

In the past 21 years - where have the Jets really hit on picks?

an LT, C and CB - in 20 years.  

They've just been god awful, QB just happens to be the most important piece of that puzzle.

[FidelioJet]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I would guess that LaFleur and Saleh know exactly what they have in Zach Wilson and their real evaluation process is finding out what the offense looks like with a media starter in Joe Flacco. I don’t think they’d do it because it would take serious amounts of sack, but if they determine Flacco or White is, at this point, a clear upgrade on what Zach was giving them, they could probably get a pretty nifty return if they elected to trade him. Teams would still be interested in the potential, and he’d be dirt cheap for them. 

I just want to make sure I'm understanding what you wrote.

Maybe I'm wrong here - but what you're saying is - and tell me if I'm wrong -  it's that your guess is -  Saleh and LaFleur already "know exactly" that Wilson is a bust -

and there's only two things keeping them from trading him.

1) They need to see if either of the back-ups can be any better

2) Because they don't have enough "sack" to pull the trigger

Did I read this correctly?

 

[Dunnie]

3 hours ago, PS17 said:

“Could?” Six weeks? Here we go again.

connor hughes .. so .....

[T0mShane]

19 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I just want to make sure I'm understanding what you wrote.

Maybe I'm wrong here - but what you're saying is - and tell me if I'm wrong -  it's that your guess is -  Saleh and LaFleur already "know exactly" that Wilson is a bust -

and there's only two things keeping them from trading him.

1) They need to see if either of the back-ups can be any better

2) Because they don't have enough "sack" to pull the trigger

Did I read this correctly?

 

I’m saying that they know what Zach does well, they know what he sucks at, and they likely have a pretty good idea about what it might take to turn him into a viable NFL QB. They’re about to spend the next six weeks running their program with a couple of QBs who will run the play as called, make the proper read, and get the ball out on time. I’m saying that they may greatly prefer the steady hand playing QB instead of spending every ounce of their mental energies trying to turn the worst QB in the league into the 21st worst QB in the league. And if they can get a bushel of draft picks for it? All the better.

[Dunnie]

34 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I would guess that LaFleur and Saleh know exactly what they have in Zach Wilson and their real evaluation process is finding out what the offense looks like with a media starter in Joe Flacco. I don’t think they’d do it because it would take serious amounts of sack, but if they determine Flacco or White is, at this point, a clear upgrade on what Zach was giving them, they could probably get a pretty nifty return if they elected to trade him. Teams would still be interested in the potential, and he’d be dirt cheap for them. 

dude ... w t f are you spouting ? Mike White is garbage.  Flacco will be a good vet fill in .... that is all ... move on.

[Ron Rico]

The Jets have the leverage to get Jimmy G. 

Get him.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Dunnie said:

dude ... w t f are you spouting ? Mike White is garbage.  Flacco will be a good vet fill in .... that is all ... move on.

What if they really, really, really like the way the 52 other guys on the team look when the “vet fill-in” is playing QB?

[Dunnie]

I super psyched to here that the best case scenario was indeed the case.   I am hoping for a heroic recovery and that Zach launches into his AFC East takeover with ease.

That being said ... I am super happy we will be able to make a clear assessment by years end.

 

[SoFlaJets]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’m saying that they know what Zach does well, they know what he sucks at, and they likely have a pretty good idea about what it might take to turn him into a viable NFL QB. They’re about to spend the next six weeks running their program with a couple of QBs who will run the play as called, make the proper read, and get the ball out on time. I’m saying that they may greatly prefer the steady hand playing QB instead of spending every ounce of their mental energies trying to turn the worst QB in the league into the 21st worst QB in the league. And if they can get a bushel of draft picks for it? All the better.

You know I really hate to be like this but I just don't think that Zach Wilson will ever amount to anything. I wish he would, I want him to be a franchise QB but I just don't see it in him. Everybody is all over Twitter saying "this is great news for the Jets Wilson will be back in 4 weeks HOORAY!" , for me I'm like Whoop-ti-do, I have more faith in Joe Flacco or Mike White, hell, I wish we never gave Teddy Bridgewater away for nothing? And nobody can accuse me of being some "hater Jets fan" I've been a fan since Night Stalker and my brother were fighting Charlie in the Jungles.

[Irktusk1957]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

What if they really, really, really like the way the 52 other guys on the team look when the “vet fill-in” is playing QB?

This isn't an electric football game where you hit the switch and hope something good happens. Wouldn't at least 26 of those guys play the same regardless of who's behind center.

I used to enjoy your posts.