Brady Quinn, Mr Bust himself weighed in on ZW today...

[56mehl56]

I think even Brady's brother Manny is better , but he's a little too stiff in the pocket. 

[UntouchableCrew]

On 8/17/2022 at 8:45 PM, NIGHT STALKER said:

Brady Quinn: “Despite the injury, Zach Wilson looked awful in that preseason game. Can we just acknowledge the media continually to try to make Zach Wilson something? The media wants this to work out so badly, and it’s kind of tough to listen to, quite honestly. I’ve never seen a QB get so much love from the media for doing less, than Wilson in a long time. Once he got selected in the draft, I had my concerns: he’s smaller so he’s subject to injury, he didn’t play against elite schools in college, and he’s starring down targets. All of these things have played out. I hope he recovers from this, but I don’t get the media love. They’d be good with Jimmy Garoppolo at QB, but they won’t make that move because they’ve invested so much in Zach Wilson.”

He's 100% right. People get mad because Brady Quinn sucked in the NFL so "who is he to say these things" but literally everything he said is accurate to date.

Too many analysts are politically correct and respectful of all current players and never say anything bad about them. They don't want to "disrespect" anyone and want to hedge so their takes are soft. I honestly have no problem with guys just cutting the sh*t and calling it like they see it.

[UntouchableCrew]

8 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

A lot of people still don't understand why that really wasn't important in Josh Allen's case but is for someone like Wilson. -

I had this debate a bunch with Broncos fans when they drafted Lock.   I love Lock.  He went to MIZZOU.  He's from Kansas City.  

Broncos fans kept coming back to comparing him to Allen becasue Allen struggled at first, they are similar size and arm etc etc etc.  The big difference being that Lock....probably played more combined passing snaps throughout peewee, HS and college, at QB, VS high level competition, than any QB ever coming into a draft, while Allen had played practically no high level football at all coming into his draft year. 

Locks scouting report was the easiest QB evaluation in the history of writeups.  They all say the same thing, and they've all been 100% correct about him....because he's played a bazillion reps VS high level competition his whole life, he was about as finished a product as there was when he came into the NFL.....all his flaws and strenghts had been pointed out, coached, worked on etc by the time he was drafted...it was a pretty easy call to say, he is what he is.

Allen was drafted completely on raw talent that unlike Lock...hadn't had high level coaching, nor played VS high level comptetion....ever.  The idea was Allen was a unique case because you could make an honest argument that he truly was a guy that if you could get him with high level coahces and high level teammates, and high level competition..that he had A TON of room to still grow and learn.  That turned out to be entirely correct.......and is an incredibly rare and exceptional case for a QB.

Wilson, had also played high level football most of his life and had 2 years starting at BYU...not a horrible compeition level, but not the SEC by any stretch.  BYU has also produced some really good QB's over the years so it's not like a QB from BYU doing well would be a surprise.  I think the Jets just misevaluated.  

anyhow....my point here is that comparing Allen on draft day VS any QB on their draft day....simply isn't a good comparison, nor is it useful to say, look at Allen in year 1...he sucked!  ....Allen was climbing up that steep learning curve.....AND the Bills were turning over the roster.  ALL 5 of his O linemen from his rookie year were OUT OF FOOTBALL by the end of his second season.  Most of the rest of the offense he started with was also.  The Jets may be churnign the roster quite a bit lately but even you guys have had more NFL caliber players to start with than Allen had as he began.  Allen and Zach comparisons don't work.  

Good post. Allen is an outlier in pretty much every way. Frankly Darnold is a better comparison for Allen in terms of using the "experience" narrative.

Drew Lock sucking was also the most obvious thing ever to anyone who followed college football.

[Alka]

On 8/17/2022 at 8:45 PM, NIGHT STALKER said:

Brady Quinn: “Despite the injury, Zach Wilson looked awful in that preseason game. Can we just acknowledge the media continually to try to make Zach Wilson something? The media wants this to work out so badly, and it’s kind of tough to listen to, quite honestly. I’ve never seen a QB get so much love from the media for doing less, than Wilson in a long time. Once he got selected in the draft, I had my concerns: he’s smaller so he’s subject to injury, he didn’t play against elite schools in college, and he’s starring down targets. All of these things have played out. I hope he recovers from this, but I don’t get the media love. They’d be good with Jimmy Garoppolo at QB, but they won’t make that move because they’ve invested so much in Zach Wilson.”

I agree with everything that Brady Quinn said.  I guess it takes a bust to know a bust.

I do not believe in Zach thus far.  And he won't have any more preseason games to show us any different.  But before Zach got hurt, he overthrew the receiver in the flat, which should be the easiest throw to make for any quarterback.  

[NIGHT STALKER]

7 hours ago, jgb said:

Huh? It's a factor. No one said it was determinative. Some smokers live to 100, also. Doesn't mean there is a vast anti-tobacco conspiracy afoot.

Huh?  I wonder why JD and the entire scouting team didn't take that into consideration?  They should be fired right now...so, since you know more than they do, why do you think they picked him?  Maybe they heard he bangs cougars and thought this is one cool dude.

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, NIGHT STALKER said:

Huh?  I wonder why JD and the entire scouting team didn't take that into consideration?  They should be fired right now...so, since you know more than they do, why do you think they picked him?  Maybe they heard he bangs cougars and thought this is one cool dude.

Undoubtedly they did take it into consideration. They just felt the positives outweigh the negatives.

I repeat: no one said it was determinative. "A factor" and "disqualifying" are not the same thing.

[NIGHT STALKER]

9 minutes ago, jgb said:

Undoubtedly they did take it into consideration. They just felt the positives outweigh the negatives.

I repeat: no one said it was determinative. "A factor" and "disqualifying" are not the same thing.

Ok, I agree with that, but who the hell is Brady Quinn to weigh in on this...I get the it takes a bust to know a bust thing, but he brings up small time college, the opponents he played, his size, staring down receivers, etc.  Quinn went to a big time college, played big time opponents, had the size...can't remember if he stared down receivers, but he sure as hell sucked when he was on the Jets.  Listen, I'm not saying ZW is the answer, but right now he is not the answer either...he gets this year and next just like Darnold did.  And again, BYU produced some big time NFL QB's...should we compare a big time school like USC and the NFL QB's they produced?  Bottom line, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt until I see that bell cow coming.

[Fantasy Island]

On 8/18/2022 at 9:41 AM, extmenace said:

Go look at josh Allen’s passing numbers in his rookie season and then look at Wilson’s. They are nearly identical as far as percentages, ypg, and etc go. Also, can you really say the jets offense was in position to help wilson be successful last year? 

2nd only to look at Peyton's rookie season numbers.

Blind hope, gotta love it.

How is Mekhi doing BTW, blind hopers?

Sometimes, if it looks like a problem.  It's actually a problem.

[jgb]

10 hours ago, NIGHT STALKER said:

Ok, I agree with that, but who the hell is Brady Quinn to weigh in on this...

Being able to play pro football well is not a requirement to have a qualified football opinion. I don't know much about Quinn's takes over the years, but it's a lazy shortcut to dismiss his opinion because he was a bust rather than attack it on its merits, or lack thereof IMHO. Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking never went to space.

10 hours ago, NIGHT STALKER said:

Je gets this year and next just like Darnold did. 

I'm in for this year but no way should he get year 3 if he stinks up the joint. No way. I get he'll likely be on the team but if he's a bottom barrel QB again, there needs to be a legitimate QB camp competition with a legitimate contender. None of these sham QB competitions the Jets have excelled at over the years. I know I won't watch the Jets if he stinks and they hand him the job in 2023.

10 hours ago, NIGHT STALKER said:

And again, BYU produced some big time NFL QB's...should we compare a big time school like USC and the NFL QBs they produced?  Bottom line, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt until I see that bell cow coming.

We just have a different philosophy. Most QBs bust, therefore the odds favor not giving the benefit of the doubt until they earn it IMHO. I always have hope, but hope is a different thing entirely.

[extmenace]

On 8/20/2022 at 2:00 PM, Fantasy Island said:

2nd only to look at Peyton's rookie season numbers.

Blind hope, gotta love it.

How is Mekhi doing BTW, blind hopers?

Sometimes, if it looks like a problem.  It's actually a problem.

It’s not blind hope. It’s just that I’m not going to write him off after less than 1 season of play and a part of another preseason. There are examples of qbs figuring it out quickly and there are examples of qbs figuring it out in year 2 and 3. It’s still too early to tell why we have so instead of being negative and assuming the worst, watch and hope for the best. 
 

and for the record, no hope at all for becton. 

[Sammybighead]

Went back and looked at that INT that everyone says was so terrible. It wasn't the worst thing I've seen. His mistake was turning his body and not immediately releasing. Otherwise the ball appeared to be accurate. He didn't anticipate the LB would be able to read and react to a quick pass like that. That understanding will come with time.

 

[Dwight Englewood]

Takes one to know one

[Dwight Englewood]

8 hours ago, Sammybighead said:

Went back and looked at that INT that everyone says was so terrible. It wasn't the worst thing I've seen. His mistake was turning his body and not immediately releasing. Otherwise the ball appeared to be accurate. He didn't anticipate the LB would be able to read and react to a quick pass like that. That understanding will come with time.

 

He locked onto his first receiver the entire time that’s why the defender was able to jump the route from literally the moment the ball was snapped

[FidelioJet]

8 hours ago, Sammybighead said:

Went back and looked at that INT that everyone says was so terrible. It wasn't the worst thing I've seen. His mistake was turning his body and not immediately releasing. Otherwise the ball appeared to be accurate. He didn't anticipate the LB would be able to read and react to a quick pass like that. That understanding will come with time.

 

This is exactly correct.  People saying he locked on to receivers, on this play and others, couldn't have possibly actually watched the game are are likely just repeating what this board says.  

This was the exact opposite of staring down a receiver. 

I believe what you're saying is exactly what happened.  Might have been a pre-nap read that he misread.  Will come in time. 

[Dwight Englewood]

5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This is exactly correct.  People saying he locked on to receivers, on this play and others, couldn't have possibly actually watched the game are are likely just repeating what this board says.  

This was the exact opposite of staring down a receiver. 

I believe what you're saying is exactly what happened.  Might have been a pre-nap read that he misread.  Will come in time. 

Ok, doesn’t change the fact Zach’s interception last week he was staring down his first read.  
 

And Zach Wilson did that quite a bit last season

[cat999]

15 minutes ago, Dwight Englewood said:

Ok, doesn’t change the fact Zach’s interception last week he was staring down his first read.  
 

And Zach Wilson did that quite a bit last season

Mistake was not that he stared down the receiver   Mistake was throwing the ball too late  On a quick hitter like that the ball has to come right out and the QB doesn't have time to look off the defender unless he can throw a Mahomes no look pass  Still a bad play, of course. 

[Facts]

On 8/17/2022 at 9:23 PM, jetstream23 said:

He's not small.

He’s the same size as Brees. Tad bit taller but same body build and everything. He’s small.

 

[FidelioJet]

8 hours ago, Dwight Englewood said:

Ok, doesn’t change the fact Zach’s interception last week he was staring down his first read.  
 

And Zach Wilson did that quite a bit last season

Honestly, that is not true.  Not even a little true.  In fact it was the opposite of what happened.

He was looking away for the entire play, then turned and fired without really seeing where the LB was...

I swear some times you guys just regurgitate stuff without even watching.  

[FlagmanL11]

Brady Quinn was one of the most overrated prospects coming out of college. He sucks. 

[Biggs]

On 8/20/2022 at 11:38 AM, NIGHT STALKER said:

Ok, I agree with that, but who the hell is Brady Quinn to weigh in on this...I get the it takes a bust to know a bust thing, but he brings up small time college, the opponents he played, his size, staring down receivers, etc.  Quinn went to a big time college, played big time opponents, had the size...can't remember if he stared down receivers, but he sure as hell sucked when he was on the Jets.  Listen, I'm not saying ZW is the answer, but right now he is not the answer either...he gets this year and next just like Darnold did.  And again, BYU produced some big time NFL QB's...should we compare a big time school like USC and the NFL QB's they produced?  Bottom line, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt until I see that bell cow coming.

BYU produced 1 big time NFL QB and he was a bust until he sat on the bench behind Joe Montana and was coached by the Best offensive HC in NFL history.   Young was trash on Tampa Bay and sat on the bench for 4 years in SF.   Young wouldn't have gotten a 5th year option in today's NFL. 

John Beck, Ty Detmer, Marc Wilson and even Jim McMahom were not big time NFL QB's.  

[Gramsci]

On 8/21/2022 at 4:00 AM, Fantasy Island said:

2nd only to look at Peyton's rookie season numbers.

Blind hope, gotta love it.

How is Mekhi doing BTW, blind hopers?

Sometimes, if it looks like a problem.  It's actually a problem.

Becton had a very positive rookie season, that's undisputable.

[maury77]

On 8/20/2022 at 2:00 PM, Fantasy Island said:

2nd only to look at Peyton's rookie season numbers.

Blind hope, gotta love it.

How is Mekhi doing BTW, blind hopers?

Sometimes, if it looks like a problem.  It's actually a problem.

Occam's Razor

[maury77]

10 hours ago, Dwight Englewood said:

He locked onto his first receiver the entire time that’s why the defender was able to jump the route from literally the moment the ball was snapped

Honestly, its not even the staring down that bothers me. It was a terrible read to begin with. If you see the LB is going to be there, why would you even throw that slant? You are either going to get picked off or you are going to get your WR decapitated. 

[NIGHT STALKER]

2 hours ago, Biggs said:

BYU produced 1 big time NFL QB and he was a bust until he sat on the bench behind Joe Montana and was coached by the Best offensive HC in NFL history.   Young was trash on Tampa Bay and sat on the bench for 4 years in SF.   Young wouldn't have gotten a 5th year option in today's NFL. 

John Beck, Ty Detmer, Marc Wilson and even Jim McMahom were not big time NFL QB's.  

Young was a bust before he got his shot...funny sh*t.  The guy is in the HOF for God's sake and who cares if he stunk in Tampa...no one won in Tampa back in those days.  McMahon won a SB.  You wouldn't take a SB victory from Wilson...come on already.

[fullblast]

I just want good QB play. I don't care who it is.

[Biggs]

30 minutes ago, NIGHT STALKER said:

Young was a bust before he got his shot...funny sh*t.  The guy is in the HOF for God's sake and who cares if he stunk in Tampa...no one won in Tampa back in those days.  McMahon won a SB.  You wouldn't take a SB victory from Wilson...come on already.

The year the Bears won the SB in 3 playoff games their opponents scored 10 points total.  That's 3.3 per and their running back was Walter Payton in his prime.  McMahon was a jurnyeman NFL QB who played for 6 teams with a career 66 and 61 record.  Steve Fuller was 4 and 1 on the same Bears team. 

McMahon had less to do with the Bears winning a SB than Trent Dilfer with Baltimore.  

Young's first year of any consequence in the NFL was year 8.  Yes he was great in year 8 and after and deserves to be in the HOF.  He would not have made it with the NY Jets today with a rookie wage scale.   He would make it with his second  team.  

[Biggs]

11 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

This is exactly correct.  People saying he locked on to receivers, on this play and others, couldn't have possibly actually watched the game are are likely just repeating what this board says.  

This was the exact opposite of staring down a receiver. 

I believe what you're saying is exactly what happened.  Might have been a pre-nap read that he misread.  Will come in time. 

Agreed he was locked onto the defender and threw him a beautiful, catchable ball. 

[NIGHT STALKER]

38 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The year the Bears won the SB in 3 playoff games their opponents scored 10 points total.  That's 3.3 per and their running back was Walter Payton in his prime.  McMahon was a jurnyeman NFL QB who played for 6 teams with a career 66 and 61 record.  Steve Fuller was 4 and 1 on the same Bears team. 

McMahon had less to do with the Bears winning a SB than Trent Dilfer with Baltimore.  

Young's first year of any consequence in the NFL was year 8.  Yes he was great in year 8 and after and deserves to be in the HOF.  He would not have made it with the NY Jets today with a rookie wage scale.   He would make it with his second  team.  

Answer the question I proposed.  Would you take one SB victory from Zack Wilson?  I would and McMahon is a God in Chicago...one SB victory.  He was an excellent game day manager...you don't need a HOF QB when you have a great supporting cast as you outlined with the Bears.  Ask Flacco how it feels to have won a SB.  He was a good manager of the game with a great supporting cast.  To be honest, I think that's what the Jets are trying to do.

[FidelioJet]

40 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Agreed he was locked onto the defender and threw him a beautiful, catchable ball. 

No one is saying it wasn't terrible, it was. 

But there's also no need to make sh*t up about it just to dump more on him.  

The video is there and not hard to find.  He looked off at the snap - turned and fired - he didn't see the LB.  He was not staring down the WR.  This shouldn't be controversial - it's the reality.

Bad play for sure.  But we don't have to make it something it isn't.

[FidelioJet]

46 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The year the Bears won the SB in 3 playoff games their opponents scored 10 points total.  That's 3.3 per and their running back was Walter Payton in his prime.  McMahon was a jurnyeman NFL QB who played for 6 teams with a career 66 and 61 record.  Steve Fuller was 4 and 1 on the same Bears team. 

McMahon had less to do with the Bears winning a SB than Trent Dilfer with Baltimore.  

Young's first year of any consequence in the NFL was year 8.  Yes he was great in year 8 and after and deserves to be in the HOF.  He would not have made it with the NY Jets today with a rookie wage scale.   He would make it with his second  team.  

What's your point here?

That if you're from BYU you can't be a good QB in NFL?

OR that if you're from BYU you can only be a good QB in the NFL if you play with a good defense?

Or that if you're from BYU you can only be a good QB in the NFL if you play for a great coach and have 4 years to sit, but then you can become a HOF QB?

I think it's interesting to just look at the past - but just curious if you're trying to make a point?

Lastly, are you suggesting ANY of this has ANYTHING to do with Zach Wilson? 

[FidelioJet]

8 minutes ago, NIGHT STALKER said:

Answer the question I proposed.  Would you take one SB victory from Zack Wilson?  I would and McMahon is a God in Chicago...one SB victory.  He was an excellent game day manager...you don't need a HOF QB when you have a great supporting cast as you outlined with the Bears.  Ask Flacco how it feels to have won a SB.  He was a good manager of the game with a great supporting cast.  To be honest, I think that's what the Jets are trying to do.

The Jets will be very disappointed in  Zach Wilson turns into Jim McMahon.  Sure they would love a super bowl, but they didn't draft him to be a game manager.

I do believe though, they are trying to bring him along slowly and if he plays a safe, steady game like a quality game manager this year they wouldn't be upset about it...but it's not what the goal for him is.

[ZachEY]

On 8/20/2022 at 10:17 PM, jgb said:

We just have a different philosophy. Most QBs bust, therefore the odds favor not giving the benefit of the doubt until they earn it IMHO. I always have hope, but hope is a different thing entirely.

Jets fans, since I've been on these boards, have always valued avoiding a perceived embarrassment/disappointment about the QB you have suddenly becoming good somewhere else, despite having no history of this happening, above actually finding a QB.

[Biggs]

26 minutes ago, NIGHT STALKER said:

Answer the question I proposed.  Would you take one SB victory from Zack Wilson?  I would and McMahon is a God in Chicago...one SB victory.  He was an excellent game day manager...you don't need a HOF QB when you have a great supporting cast as you outlined with the Bears.  Ask Flacco how it feels to have won a SB.  He was a good manager of the game with a great supporting cast.  To be honest, I think that's what the Jets are trying to do.

If we have the 85 Bears D and Walter Payton in his prime I would expect a good HC could win the SB with Sam Darnold at QB. 

[Biggs]

20 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

What's your point here?

That if you're from BYU you can't be a good QB in NFL?

OR that if you're from BYU you can only be a good QB in the NFL if you play with a good defense?

Or that if you're from BYU you can only be a good QB in the NFL if you play for a great coach and have 4 years to sit, but then you can become a HOF QB?

I think it's interesting to just look at the past - but just curious if you're trying to make a point?

Lastly, are you suggesting ANY of this has ANYTHING to do with Zach Wilson? 

No I'm saying there is no evidence that BYU produces good NFL QB's.  

[section314]

10 hours ago, Facts said:

He’s the same size as Brees. Tad bit taller but same body build and everything. He’s small.

 

6’2” 220 is small?