Our DC

[BurntDice]

15 hours ago, WowOhWow said:

I fully realize he has no talent and a very young group of players last year.  But he had a year with them.  Now he got some new blood via the draft and free agency.  And the defense still can’t stop anyone.  Even with Zach’s struggles (Legit concern there) the job our DC has done is my biggest concern.  Our first PS game they looked pathetic.  Am I over reacting?  What evidence is there our defense can stop anyone?  I haven’t seen it.  

Please explain the bold. They still can’t stop anyone? In what the preseason? You know the lions went 4-0 in the preseason the year they didn’t win a game right? Preseason means nothing. Also they were missing half of the starters against the eagles. 

[Reasonable Jets Fan]

8 hours ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

He’s a $hitty DC and it became quite evident as he FAILED to make halftime/late-game adjustments to the defense. LIKE COVERING THE WHEEL ROUTE!!!

You realize that it isn't always the scheme that is the problem but the players out of position. There are a lot of legit concerns about ulbrich and the defense after last year. But anyone with eyes could see 3rd string and 4th string LBs making bad reads and fooled on simple moves that created a huge hole for them last year.

The defense looked worse because of these deficiencies. The defense would play well and then give up a huge play on a wheel route or simple screen. 

I am not saying it's not a problem that it never seemed to get fixed. But what was obvious was they took the stance that these players should use this time to learn this system and get better at it rather then adjust the whole system to try to win meaningless games in the back half of the year.

Yes it made them look terrible but this is why they have said many times that those reps were invaluable to those young kids because it was about the 3rd and 4th stringers on this Jets team getting better at the scheme the jets defense plays. 

Am I concerned if it doesn't seem to get fixed... Of course. But calling for his head in preseason of his 2nd year is beyond premature... It's a bit ridiculous and reactionary especially for someone that fancies to know football so well. 

[LIJetsFan]

1 hour ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

 

I am not saying it's not a problem that it never seemed to get fixed. But what was obvious was they took the stance that these players should use this time to learn this system and get better at it rather then adjust the whole system to try to win meaningless games in the back half of the year.

 

Am I reading this right?  Are you saying that our rookie DC should NOT make half time adjustments for some reason or another?  He was a first time DC who may or may not be capable of making half time adjustments.  

Much of our CS for the past decade NEVER made half time adjustments and the fans rightly went nuts.  I am not ready to give out current DC a pass for WHATEVER reason.     

[Reasonable Jets Fan]

1 hour ago, LIJetsFan said:

Am I reading this right?  Are you saying that our rookie DC should NOT make half time adjustments for some reason or another?  He was a first time DC who may or may not be capable of making half time adjustments.  

Much of our CS for the past decade NEVER made half time adjustments and the fans rightly went nuts.  I am not ready to give out current DC a pass for WHATEVER reason.     

Scheme is scheme... I am not saying don't change play calling... But you can't change how your defense plays because your players aren't understanding how to cover... 

You are misunderstanding what I wrote

[docdhc]

22 hours ago, WowOhWow said:

I think a bunch of folks on this board love to throw out the tired trope about being a jaded Jets fan whenever any topic raising concerns comes up.  I’ve watched enough good and bad football in my time to have an opinion. I’ve gone through many cycles of preseasons to know.  Some coaches are better coaches than others.  Our DC hasn’t proven a thing.  If you’re not concerned - tell me, what concerns you?  Nothing?  We’re in great shape?  Here’s the way I see it - all you geniuses can poke holes:

1 - the last two drafts and off seasons we’ve added a ton of talent.  I’m as bullish on these two offseasons as I’ve been in ages.

2. I liked the development I saw from our OC last year.  I believe he has a bright future.

3.  Lots criticized the Flacco signing.  I think he’ll be serviceable to better than serviceable.  Actually really glad he’s here.  
4.  Big JD fan.  I trust him.

5. but our DC - he talks pretty and bold but I haven’t seen a thing to bring me optimism. 
6. Lastly - I was very happy w the Salah hire.  I’m souring a bit.  I am still trying to figure out what his signature is?  Are we a nasty team?  Are we an exciting offensive team?  What are we?  He’s gotten a pass bc of the talent deficit.  But that excuse is going away fast…

I agree he hasn’t proven anything yet. Certainly there should be some concern.  That said that was an historically bad secondary last year combined with no pressure from the edge which would be hard to overcome with coaching. He at least deserves us deferring judgement until we see what his defense does this year in the regular season. The preseason really doesn’t mean much. You can be pessimistic, I can be optimistic but we won’t know who’s right for a while. 

[92ShaunEllis92]

2 hours ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

Scheme is scheme... I am not saying don't change play calling... But you can't change how your defense plays because your players aren't understanding how to cover... 

You are misunderstanding what I wrote

Yes you can change the plays you call on defense - it’s called recognizing and addressing the problem!!! Such as switching from zone to man, cover 2 to cover 3, etc! It’s called an Adjustment and for your even stupider 2nd point “because your players aren’t understanding how to cover”

THATS ON THE COACHING AND THE DC!!!!?

I don’t think you know what “reasonable” means and that is a helluva sarcastic screen name. ?

[92ShaunEllis92]

For all those defending Ulbrich, recall that Greg Williams had JUST AS BAD IF NOT WORSE defensive talent/players in 2019 & 2020 with an even worse or just as bad LB corp (James Burgess, Neville Hewitt) and secondary (Nate Hairston, Darryl Roberts) and the defense in 2019 and 2020 WAS NEVER as atrocious as the 2021 defense. 

[ToonforPrez]

On 8/21/2022 at 8:35 AM, WowOhWow said:

So all of you feel good about our DC?  No concerns?  All is OK?  

For a preseason game the first one of the season not particularly. But as a Jet fan i stopped being concerned years ago for my mental health as well as physically. I can only get kicked in the nuts so many times and the thrill and eroticism goes away.    

[Alka]

On 8/21/2022 at 8:12 AM, WowOhWow said:

I fully realize he has no talent and a very young group of players last year.  But he had a year with them.  Now he got some new blood via the draft and free agency.  And the defense still can’t stop anyone.  Even with Zach’s struggles (Legit concern there) the job our DC has done is my biggest concern.  Our first PS game they looked pathetic.  Am I over reacting?  What evidence is there our defense can stop anyone?  I haven’t seen it.  

If I owned the Jets, I would tell Robert Saleh that unless the defense performs at a much higher level in the first few games, I would make Saleh fire him in mid-season.  And then I would fire Saleh at the end of the season.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

7 hours ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

You realize that it isn't always the scheme that is the problem but the players out of position. There are a lot of legit concerns about ulbrich and the defense after last year. But anyone with eyes could see 3rd string and 4th string LBs making bad reads and fooled on simple moves that created a huge hole for them last year.

There are exceptions to pretty much everything, but in general, any coach who is married to one scheme with zero adaptability is not a real coach.

One of your biggest jobs as a coach is to adapt the scheme to the strengths and weaknesses of your personnel and not the other way around.

Especially in the NFL, you get so little time to actually work with the players in person.   There’s no time trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

And you have to have scheme versatility / adaptability in order to be strategic about game planning for specific opponents.

[RoadFan]

Hmmmm…

[Dcat]

This defense stinks.  

But I forgot, preseason doesn't matter on this site.  

All hail to the "nothing matters" crew.  But Saleh's defense does indeed stink.  And that matters.

[Dwight Englewood]

13 minutes ago, Dcat said:

This defense stinks.  

But I forgot, preseason doesn't matter on this site.  

All hail to the "nothing matters" crew.  But Saleh's defense does indeed stink.  And that matters.

The first 10 games of the season won’t matter either

[ToonforPrez]

Has a DC coordinator been fired during preseason ever ?


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[WowOhWow]

The apologists, excuse makers will surely label me as overacting and emotional for a game that means nothing. Fellas - our DC is terrible.  Terrible.  Salah is terrible.  What in his tenure as HC has he done to give us hope.  This is a big problem 

[Dwight Englewood]

4 minutes ago, WowOhWow said:

The apologists, excuse makers will surely label me as overacting and emotional for a game that means nothing. Fellas - our DC is terrible.  Terrible.  Salah is terrible.  What in his tenure as HC has he done to give us hope.  This is a big problem 

They keep saying none of the starters are playing (not true).  Ok, so then what happened last week?

[Smashmouth]

On 8/21/2022 at 7:12 AM, WowOhWow said:

I fully realize he has no talent and a very young group of players last year.  But he had a year with them.  Now he got some new blood via the draft and free agency.  And the defense still can’t stop anyone.  Even with Zach’s struggles (Legit concern there) the job our DC has done is my biggest concern.  Our first PS game they looked pathetic.  Am I over reacting?  What evidence is there our defense can stop anyone?  I haven’t seen it.  

There is concern IMHO but the regular season tells all hard to judge on what's happened the first few pre season games

[JustInFudge]

18 minutes ago, WowOhWow said:

The apologists, excuse makers will surely label me as overacting and emotional for a game that means nothing. Fellas - our DC is terrible.  Terrible.  Salah is terrible.  What in his tenure as HC has he done to give us hope.  This is a big problem 

You're right, he's the worst, he should be fired for this embarrassment. FIRED!  OMG!  WTF!  He's so dumb and bad and stupid.

[Dwight Englewood]

5 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

You're right, he's the worst, he should be fired for this embarrassment. FIRED!  OMG!  WTF!  He's so dumb and bad and stupid.

The Jet defense was at the bottom of the league in almost every category last season 

 

But yeah we should be celebrating our defense making a trash qb like Mariota look amazing

 

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, Dwight Englewood said:

The Jet defense was at the bottom of the league in almost every category last season 

 

But yeah we should be celebrating our defense making a trash qb like Mariota look amazing

 

Yes, last year and this year are the same thing and the players that played tonight will be playing during the season so this is so relevant and great point so we should fire everyone ASAP

[Dwight Englewood]

3 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Yes, last year and this year are the same thing and the players that played tonight will be playing during the season so this is so relevant and great point so we should fire everyone ASAP

January 

[WowOhWow]

Jif - you do realize you’re allowed to have opinions in pre season.  We look abysmal in all phases.  We look terribly coached.  Watch the game.  You clearly love the team.  You should expect more.  This coaching staff is an embarrassment 

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, WowOhWow said:

Jif - you do realize you’re allowed to have opinions in pre season.  We look abysmal in all phases.  We look terribly coached.  Watch the game.  You clearly love the team.  You should expect more.  This coaching staff is an embarrassment 

I agree, we should fire them all because this is embarrassing!

[#90]

The worst in the league. Think back to last year and watch the preseason games. Brick Blows.

[CanadaSteve]

On 8/21/2022 at 8:12 AM, WowOhWow said:

 Am I over reacting?  

[Maxman]

Preseason or not, Ulbrich is on the clock. He needs to improve greatly this season. They have a more talented roster, so he should be able to do it. No more excuses though.

[Atj21]

He sucks

[BCJet]

The thing that Ulbrich needs to fix is his ability to disguise what we are doing.  Not only has saleh preached the defense the team will play (yes a lot of coaches do that) but then we go out there and dont even mix in other coverages or try to hide what we are doing.  Every scheme can be beaten if you dont mix things up.

The thing that will be really telling for Ulbrich is that he is given 2 very strong units and with our CBs, who should need very little help, he should be able to do a lot with the rest of the defense - but the question is does he know how?

[68JET11]

Here's the problem as I see it. All the players have publicly praised Saleh, and said how much they enjoy playing for him, yet we've not seen that. It has to be something that players are constantly out of position, or playing 10 yards off coverage. I have no problem with Saleh being that type of coach, but then you need your DC and OC to be teachers of their trade. I'm still pumped to see what this offense is going to be, but I'll be the first one on the fire Ulbrich bandwagon if now that we have guys, like Lawson and JJ, and Clemons coming off the edge we don't see a completely different defense this year. I'll never understand that with guys like Sauce, and Reed why we're ever in Zone on corners. Everytime I see another team slicing up that zone, I'm wondering what the F Ulbrich is seeing or calling. Arthur Smith ate Ulbrich for lunch last night, and it wasn't even close no matter who was playing. Seems to be a recurring theme with Ulbrich.

[RoadFan]

10 minutes ago, BCJet said:

The thing that Ulbrich needs to fix is his ability to disguise what we are doing.  Not only has saleh preached the defense the team will play (yes a lot of coaches do that) but then we go out there and dont even mix in other coverages or try to hide what we are doing.  Every scheme can be beaten if you dont mix things up.

The thing that will be really telling for Ulbrich is that he is given 2 very strong units and with our CBs, who should need very little help, he should be able to do a lot with the rest of the defense - but the question is does he know how?

My concern too.

Simple system that lacks an element of confusion.  
 

Not good. 

[Jet Nut]

10 hours ago, Dwight Englewood said:

They keep saying none of the starters are playing (not true).  Ok, so then what happened last week?

Not true? 

17 of the 22 starters did not play last night, even against the 3 or 4 series Atlanta had most of their stares on the field.  Last week a lot of starters were sitting out, they gave up one drive.

[Trotter]

How about we see what the defense looks like after  the first 4 games of the season. 
 

With all the new faces and rookies, we should have a pretty good idea what it us going to be.

if terrible, then sure start talking about the oc

[JustInFudge]

26 minutes ago, BCJet said:

The thing that Ulbrich needs to fix is his ability to disguise what we are doing.  Not only has saleh preached the defense the team will play (yes a lot of coaches do that) but then we go out there and dont even mix in other coverages or try to hide what we are doing.  Every scheme can be beaten if you dont mix things up.

The thing that will be really telling for Ulbrich is that he is given 2 very strong units and with our CBs, who should need very little help, he should be able to do a lot with the rest of the defense - but the question is does he know how?

They want to run a cover 3 press and bail, which allows you to do more more upfront hoping to gain that extra second or 2 to get to the QB or at least, pressure him.  It's more geared to stop the pass than run.  Many teams in the league have been trying to do it ever since Seattle shut down Manning and the greatest offense ever in the SB.  It's copy cat league, you see it everywhere, there is a reason why a bunch of those dudes from that defensive coaching staff have gone on too bigger jobs, 3 have become HC's. 

Anywho, they couldnt run that last year.  They had one of the least talented D's in the entire league with one of the most inexpereinced secondaries ever.  Yet, you saw a lot of those guys start playing well toward the end of the year which is usually a nod to coaching but idk, call me crazy. 

This year should be different with more talent up front and a veteran led secondary.  All that said, I have no idea if it works but that's the idea and I'm kind of mind to see what it looks like with all the right pieces in place during a meaningful game before I bust out the pitch forks and torches. 

 

[WowOhWow]

49 minutes ago, Trotter said:

How about we see what the defense looks like after  the first 4 games of the season. 
 

With all the new faces and rookies, we should have a pretty good idea what it us going to be.

if terrible, then sure start talking about the oc

I genuinely don't understand the "we have to wait crowd".  No one is saying pre-season is a true indicator of regular season success/failure.  That said, we have been given the opportunity to watch our DC for a full season and now 2 of 3 pre season games.  We're just making observations on what we see.  It's like you're afraid of having an opinion and have to hide behind some silly pre-season reasoning.  

Are you and the other "have to waits" unable to formulate an opinion?  The Jets have not looked sharp.  Ulbrich's units in particular have not looked good since he walked in the building.

I think it's fair to say there's some concern.  No one is screaming fire in a crowded theatre.  We're just discussing our team.  If we adhered to you and all the other "have to waits" to be 4 games into the season before formulating an opinion what would we be talking about on here.

I loved the Salah hire. But I'm concerned the dude is a "buzz word bingo" type of coach.  Talks pretty while his team is getting tooled on.  I'm even more concerned he hasn't blown a gasket on his DC to get his @ss in gear and start looking like a pro team - regardless of who is on the field.  

This team needs to show progress.  I believe JD has put his money where his mouth is and gotten us more talent.  So far, our HC and DC talk all pretty but haven't shown up.  Now go ahead and tell me I should wait another 5-weeks before having an opinion.  

[WowOhWow]

40 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

They want to run a cover 3 press and bail, which allows you to do more more upfront hoping to gain that extra second or 2 to get to the QB or at least, pressure him.  It's more geared to stop the pass than run.  Many teams in the league have been trying to do it ever since Seattle shut down Manning and the greatest offense ever in the SB.  It's copy cat league, you see it everywhere, there is a reason why a bunch of those dudes from that defensive coaching staff have gone on too bigger jobs, 3 have become HC's. 

Anywho, they couldnt run that last year.  They had one of the least talented D's in the entire league with one of the most inexpereinced secondaries ever.  Yet, you saw a lot of those guys start playing well toward the end of the year which is usually a nod to coaching but idk, call me crazy. 

This year should be different with more talent up front and a veteran led secondary.  All that said, I have no idea if it works but that's the idea and I'm kind of mind to see what it looks like with all the right pieces in place during a meaningful game before I bust out the pitch forks and torches. 

 

Can you show me where they started to play better at the end of the year due to the good coaching?  They got carved up.