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Boomer Thinks Zach's Performance in First Preseason Game "Troubling"...


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40 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:


Sorry Maury, I’m not as familiar with you or your work but I hope to get to know you better this season!

Maury is a late riser. I want more data before declaring him a draft hit 😉 

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:


Correct.  That’s what QBASE does best:  Expose the busts-in-waiting who are being graded highly by the so-called experts. 

It is NOT particularly great at nailing the “hits”.  Guys they score highly are basically a coin flip success rate at best.  Though I defy anyone to find an analyst or system out there that ranked Mahomes the top QB in 2017.  QBASE did….

And yes, @JiFapono, Mayfield scored ridiculously high.  But has he busted yet?  I dunno, depends on your definition of a “bust”.  I think he’s about to have a nice season in Carolina, despite how punchable his face is… 

Mayfield is 100% a bust for Cleveland, the team that drafted him.  He was mistake taking him at #1 and didnt come anywhere near the expectations QBASE put out for him and he's no longer on the team.  That's a bust by my definition.  Maybe he has a nice season but dude loves to turn the ball over and come up small in big spots and as we saw with OBJ once he got to L.A., he holds WR's back.  So yeah, we'll have to see if Busty McBustface does any better, didnt work well for Darnold.   That said, I was just using him as an example of subjective their criteria is and how inconsistent they are using the same formula from player to player.  It was laughable.  Like I remember they acted like he didnt have talent around him yet 3 of his college WR's went for 1000 yards last year in the NFL last season.  lol 

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2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Mayfield is 100% a bust for Cleveland, the team that drafted him.  He was mistake taking him at #1 and didnt come anywhere near the expectations QBASE put out for him and he's no longer on the team.  That's a bust by my definition.  Maybe he has a nice season but dude loves to turn the ball over and come up small in big spots and as we saw with OBJ once he got to L.A., he holds WR's back.  So yeah, we'll have to see if Busty McBustface does any better, didnt work well for Darnold.   That said, I was just using him as an example of subjective their criteria is and how inconsistent they are using the same formula from player to player.  It was laughable.  Like I remember they acted like he didnt have talent around him yet 3 of his college WR's went for 1000 yards last year in the NFL last season.  lol 

 

Definitely an imperfect system.  I just haven't seen a publicly available analyst, expert, tool or resource that's been better at projecting college QB success in the pros.  Even though folks like you make a valiant effort and I'd probably trust you over any other human making these predictions.

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15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Definitely an imperfect system.  I just haven't seen a publicly available analyst, expert, tool or resource that's been better at projecting college QB success in the pros.  Even though folks like you make a valiant effort and I'd probably trust you over any other human making these predictions.

I recognize it's merits and as you said is better served as to avoid bust then to find the right guy.  I'll give you/it that, for sure.

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2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

Mayfield is 100% a bust for Cleveland, the team that drafted him.  He was mistake taking him at #1 and didnt come anywhere near the expectations QBASE put out for him and he's no longer on the team.  That's a bust by my definition.  Maybe he has a nice season but dude loves to turn the ball over and come up small in big spots and as we saw with OBJ once he got to L.A., he holds WR's back.  So yeah, we'll have to see if Busty McBustface does any better, didnt work well for Darnold.   That said, I was just using him as an example of subjective their criteria is and how inconsistent they are using the same formula from player to player.  It was laughable.  Like I remember they acted like he didnt have talent around him yet 3 of his college WR's went for 1000 yards last year in the NFL last season.  lol 

Who do you think has a better chance to have a long career as a starter given what you know at this moment, Baker or BYU?

Not a gotcha question, genuinely interested in your thoughts.

For me it is an easy one: Baker.

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48 minutes ago, jgb said:

Who do you think has a better chance to have a long career as a starter given what you know at this moment, Baker or BYU?

Not a gotcha question, genuinely interested in your thoughts.

For me it is an easy one: Baker.

Baker no doubt 

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9 hours ago, Biggs said:

Mac Jones won his job in camp last year and had a terrific rookie year.   That doesn't mean he's on a trajectory to be great.  If the tape exposses him it exposses him.  Unlike Zach, Mac Jones actually performed well in real games last year.   Zach sucked last year.  There's a reason for the scrutiny with Zach.  If Mac sucks during the regular season he's going to get crapped on by the media and the NE fan base.  

If Zach was as good as Mac Jones last year nobody cares that he sucked in a pre-season game before he got hurt.  That goes with the territory.  

 

I live in MA - Zack would have won the job two if he was competing with the dreck that Mac Jone did; in fact he did - as there was nobody to compete with him either.

I watched every Pats game and I can tell you he did NOT play well and he had the advantage of an established offense where everyone around him knew it completely. He also didn't need to do anything to win. This board goes crazy over how Sanchez sucked and the team won the games in spite of him. If Mac Jones was here not only would people be hiring planes to fly over the stadium but they would have gone ballistic if he got into the pro-bowl. Even many of the NE Pats homers I know were calling him out all season. Didn't say Zack was going to be good - just that Mac Jones doesn't deserve the praise he has been getting.

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9 hours ago, Biggs said:

Nonsense.   Mac was solid last year.  He had a 67.6 completion percentage 22 TD's, 13 INT's and a QBR of 92.5.  He had a very respectable 3800 yards roughly 220 plus per game.  He wasn't asked to do to much but he was excellent in terms of delivering what was required.  That doesn't suck for a rookie.  That's good QB play.  Now if he can't build on it and deliver more with more on his shoulders he will be rightfully expossed.  

I watched every game and I can tell you he wasn't as good as his stats indicated. If all you judge it on is. stats - fine. They won on their running game, OL and defense. Many of his good stats came in games they lost; teams would cheat up to stop the run and he would get a pass and good YAC. But, time will tell - not sure why all the love for a mediocre QB on a hated rival.

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10 hours ago, bostonmajet said:

I watched every game and I can tell you he wasn't as good as his stats indicated. If all you judge it on is. stats - fine. They won on their running game, OL and defense. Many of his good stats came in games they lost; teams would cheat up to stop the run and he would get a pass and good YAC. But, time will tell - not sure why all the love for a mediocre QB on a hated rival.

Sadly I live in NE and get the Pats feed.  There WR were straight trash last year.  

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7 hours ago, Biggs said:

Sadly I live in NE and get the Pats feed.  There WR were straight trash last year.  

Yep; bad receivers and mediocre QB - a smart coach wins with a great OL and a running game. OL doesn't hurt for protecting a newbie QB as well. Now, if I said that about ZW which in part was true (not the OL at first), people would be saying I was just making excuses for him.

When a QB is meh on the Pats it is because his receivers suck. When a QB for the Jets makes it to back-to-back AFCC games, it is because the team carried him. That was my original point - if Mac Jones got the coverage the Sanchez/ZW did/do, he would be a. bum.

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1 hour ago, bostonmajet said:

Yep; bad receivers and mediocre QB - a smart coach wins with a great OL and a running game. OL doesn't hurt for protecting a newbie QB as well. Now, if I said that about ZW which in part was true (not the OL at first), people would be saying I was just making excuses for him.

When a QB is meh on the Pats it is because his receivers suck. When a QB for the Jets makes it to back-to-back AFCC games, it is because the team carried him. That was my original point - if Mac Jones got the coverage the Sanchez/ZW did/do, he would be a. bum.

Mac Jones was much better as a rookie than Sanchez.  Sanchez had the No. 1 ranked running game.  The Pats had the No. 8 running game last year.  The Jets team in 2008 and 2009 was miles better than what Mac had on both sides of the ball.  They also had Keller at TE, Cotchery and Edwards at WR.  Sanchez was carried.  Mac Jones wasn't carried.   He was a solid rookie on a mediocre team that was well coached and made the playoffs.  The Jets teams under Sanchez was loaded on both sides of the ball.  

Mac was good last year.  Not elite good.  Zach on a bad team sucked last year not meh, sucked.  That doesn't mean he will suck in the future.   Sanchez had some good moments under pressure but overall he sucked. 

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2 hours ago, Biggs said:

Mac Jones was much better as a rookie than Sanchez.  Sanchez had the No. 1 ranked running game.  The Pats had the No. 8 running game last year.  The Jets team in 2008 and 2009 was miles better than what Mac had on both sides of the ball.  They also had Keller at TE, Cotchery and Edwards at WR.  Sanchez was carried.  Mac Jones wasn't carried.   He was a solid rookie on a mediocre team that was well coached and made the playoffs.  The Jets teams under Sanchez was loaded on both sides of the ball.  

Mac was good last year.  Not elite good.  Zach on a bad team sucked last year not meh, sucked.  That doesn't mean he will suck in the future.   Sanchez had some good moments under pressure but overall he sucked. 

8th was enough to win 10 games. Mac Jones was totally carrier; almost every game he won could have been won by most competent QBs - hence Meh. And you miss-understood me I didn't say anything about excuses for ZW, I said if Mac Jones was on the Jets team he would have stunk and the fans would have rented an airplane. Without that OL that holds, the top-tier OC, the running game and the defense, well, Mac would have been done. But, lets see how this year plays out this year with Mac.

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22 hours ago, bostonmajet said:

I live in MA - Zack would have won the job two if he was competing with the dreck that Mac Jone did; in fact he did - as there was nobody to compete with him either.

I watched every Pats game and I can tell you he did NOT play well and he had the advantage of an established offense where everyone around him knew it completely. He also didn't need to do anything to win. This board goes crazy over how Sanchez sucked and the team won the games in spite of him. If Mac Jones was here not only would people be hiring planes to fly over the stadium but they would have gone ballistic if he got into the pro-bowl. Even many of the NE Pats homers I know were calling him out all season. Didn't say Zack was going to be good - just that Mac Jones doesn't deserve the praise he has been getting.

I hope Mac signs a 10 year deal to stay in New England so they're stuck with him.  

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Some of us just value different things in QBs. Mac Jones can't make something out of nothing if all of his receiving options are covered, but he will run the offense the exact way its meant to be run and that's honestly 90% of what being a good QB is about. Others of you prefer someone that can pull an occasional rabbit out of the hat, but struggles with the more mundane aspects of QB play, like getting your drops right, timing your steps with the receivers' routes and playing in rythm. Ideally, you have both. 

 

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9 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Some of us just value different things in QBs. Mac Jones can't make something out of nothing if all of his receiving options are covered, but he will run the offense the exact way its meant to be run and that's honestly 90% of what being a good QB is about. Others of you prefer someone that can pull an occasional rabbit out of the hat, but struggles with the more mundane aspects of QB play, like getting your drops right, timing your steps with the receivers' routes and playing in rythm. Ideally, you have both. 

 

Show me one post - anywhere, that says this...

Show me one person that believes the QB shoutdn't do the "mundane aspects of QB play" well.

Mundane can be learned - natural talent can not.  

 

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15 hours ago, bostonmajet said:

8th was enough to win 10 games. Mac Jones was totally carrier; almost every game he won could have been won by most competent QBs - hence Meh. And you miss-understood me I didn't say anything about excuses for ZW, I said if Mac Jones was on the Jets team he would have stunk and the fans would have rented an airplane. Without that OL that holds, the top-tier OC, the running game and the defense, well, Mac would have been done. But, lets see how this year plays out this year with Mac.

You are ignoring the fact that last year there were no other competent rookies other than Mac Jones.  The only other rookie who showed some competence in the last quarter of the season was Davis Mills.   Last years rookie class didn't have competent NFL QB's.  That's the point you continue to ignore.  

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On 8/28/2022 at 3:05 PM, JiFapono said:

Mayfield is 100% a bust for Cleveland, the team that drafted him.  He was mistake taking him at #1 and didnt come anywhere near the expectations QBASE put out for him and he's no longer on the team.  That's a bust by my definition.  Maybe he has a nice season but dude loves to turn the ball over and come up small in big spots and as we saw with OBJ once he got to L.A., he holds WR's back.  So yeah, we'll have to see if Busty McBustface does any better, didnt work well for Darnold.   That said, I was just using him as an example of subjective their criteria is and how inconsistent they are using the same formula from player to player.  It was laughable.  Like I remember they acted like he didnt have talent around him yet 3 of his college WR's went for 1000 yards last year in the NFL last season.  lol 

Mayfield is second in the nfl in turnovers at the qb position since 2019.  Only Sam Darnold playing on horrific jets teams has had more turnovers 

 

Why are people still pretending this guy is any good?

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1 hour ago, maury77 said:

Some of us just value different things in QBs. Mac Jones can't make something out of nothing if all of his receiving options are covered, but he will run the offense the exact way its meant to be run and that's honestly 90% of what being a good QB is about. Others of you prefer someone that can pull an occasional rabbit out of the hat, but struggles with the more mundane aspects of QB play, like getting your drops right, timing your steps with the receivers' routes and playing in rythm. Ideally, you have both. 

 

Jets fans would sell their families for Zach to have had a rookie season even close to as good as Mac Jones last year

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6 hours ago, Biggs said:

You are ignoring the fact that last year there were no other competent rookies other than Mac Jones.  The only other rookie who showed some competence in the last quarter of the season was Davis Mills.   Last years rookie class didn't have competent NFL QB's.  That's the point you continue to ignore.  

Not sure why that matters. He had a better record, doesn't mean he played well. Does there have to be a great rookie QB? Normally these guys all fail/struggle. Either way, the new season is upon us and it will hopefully be fun to watch.

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On 8/28/2022 at 5:43 AM, Jetsfan80 said:


@JiFapono vindicated.

@Irish Jet decimated.

LOL

Most of their starters didn't play. We seen Zach tear apart backups last year. 

Fields seems like a great guy - He actually does seem like the type who'll put in the work to get better. My criticism from watching his college performances were that he wasn't close to ready for the NFL and judging by last year he wasn't. If he's recognised his issues and corrected them I'll eat all the crow in the world. 

And yes I will 100% hold it against Joe Douglas if Zach doesn't do the same!

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