Mims requested a Trade

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

5 hours ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

Not true... Chris hired poorly... And Woody kept giving up on coaches too early... That is an issue...

Who exactly did the Jets give up on too early??????????  Ryan? Bowles? Seriously?  

[Barkus]

18 hours ago, Barkus said:

Trade him to the panthers! Rhule will give up a 3rd to get him?

live look at Rhule thinking about mims:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/08/26/report-panthers-have-called-jets-about-denzel-mims/
 

[sourceworx]

37 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

I'm asking because I don't know.  Did JD blow up Macc's entire scouting department and bring in his own guys?

If I remember correctly the scouting for the 2020 draft was done mostly with the staff leftover from Mac's regime. JD replaced them right after the draft.

[PorP]

3 hours ago, jgb said:

You couldn't be more wrong because our argument is based on math, statistics, and probability. We do acknowledge there is a chance he could still succeed. After all that's what a probability means. We are playing the odds but get treated like Jet-hating, fake fan troglodytes.

If you think we've expressed an opinion in error -- that he has, unfortunately, an extremely high bust chance, which increased after his rookie year, then make that argument and tell us why you believe that. The amount of data and analysis that supports our position has been documented again and again on here. I've never seen any data whatsoever from the pro camp. Just hope. Which is perfectly fine. Fans are allowed to hope. But let's not call it something else.

As I indicated your data set is so ridiculously small that no mathematician. Statistical sme or engineer would ever stand behind it.  More so,  I couldn't model a headache with the data set you claim predicts the future. 

I thinks it's you that likes to say there are 2 types of fans (?)... there's a 3rd. The wait n see'ers. I feel like I'm in that 3rd category so you won't see me arguing ZW being a boom or a bust. I need to see it game time in year 2. 

I'm not trying to bust your beans man.  Just let you know that both the optimist and pessimists opinions are equally valid until the is more measured data to compare to the baseline (aka his rookie year) 

[jgb]

41 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

lol - but duuuudddeee its the easy way to not harsh my mellow

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Excellent point.  And of course Rodgers is still going to put up very good numbers.  

So we are comparing Wilson to one of the greatest QBs in NFL history in order to justify moving on at QB?  OK.  Makes sense. 

[jgb]

15 minutes ago, PorP said:

As I indicated your data set is so ridiculously small that no mathematician. Statistical sme or engineer would ever stand behind it.  More so,  I couldn't model a headache with the data set you claim predicts the future. 

I thinks it's you that likes to say there are 2 types of fans (?)... there's a 3rd. The wait n see'ers. I feel like I'm in that 3rd category so you won't see me arguing ZW being a boom or a bust. I need to see it game time in year 2. 

I'm not trying to bust your beans man.  Just let you know that both the optimist and pessimists opinions are equally valid until the is done measurable data from the baseline (aka his rookie year) 

No. It’s the entire universe of highly drafted QBs in the last 20 or so years. It’s not even a sample — it’s the ENTIRE POPULATION. QBs that start bad in overwhelming proportion stay that way. Over 90%. The pro camp points to Josh Allen and 1-2 other guys. Okay, fine, tell us how our QB is more like them than the dozens who busted after a rough career start. I mean we have been asking for someone to make a case beyond stating the truism that outliers exist. We have been asking now for several Jets QBs but it never comes. No one denies outliers exist. But in order to derive reasonable hope from an outlier one needs to draw similarities to differentiate the evaluated player from the fat part of the distribution curve — otherwise, the background percentage of success chance applies. No one has been able to do that. They think “but Josh Allen did it,” is a mic drop discussion winner. No, sir. No, sir it is not. The only argument that wins is if someone takes the position that it is “impossible” for the QB to turn it around. And I’d be right there with you rejecting that position.

The fact that you believe it’s an indictment that we “can’t predict the future,” well it’s not even a relevant criticism. We are not predicting the future. We are handicapping the various outcomes.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

4 hours ago, munchmemory said:

How many years have we been here discussing bust players, coaches and the seemingly disastrous direction of the team in the pre-season?   2022 is just another example of failure instead of success.  SOJ.

Interesting. 2022 is a failure already.  Based on what - preseason games and tweets from idiotic beat writers covering practice?   Really?  I though maybe your view was based on something tangible, like tarot card readings.  

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

We agree.  There's no spot for him on the Jets.  He wants a chance somewhere else.  Why should he shut up.  He wants out of a situation where he can't compete.

The Jets and Jet Nut thinks he sucks and doesn't deserve a spot.  Move on.  Don't put him on a shelf.  

He should shut up because he’s where he’s at because he’s an idiot who doesn’t know the basics of the game like lining up correctly and more Importantly the fool has made it even harder to make a trade.  
Has nothing to do with me

[jgb]

30 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Who exactly did the Jets give up on too early??????????  Ryan? Bowles? Seriously?  

He got smoked out as someone who came to stir up trouble than vanished once he was exposed as not even understanding the team. He claimed Woody gave up too early on Pete Carroll — quite the trick seeing as he didn’t buy the Jets until 6 years after Pete was long gone. He also claimed Woody gave up on Belichick when Belichick (wisely) gave up on Woody.

He has to burn this account and make a new one, now.

[PorP]

12 minutes ago, jgb said:

No. It’s the entire universe of highly drafted QBs in the last 20 or so years. It’s not even a sample — it’s the ENTIRE POPULATION. QBs that start bad in overwhelming proportion stay that way. Over 90%. The pro camp points to Josh Allen and 1-2 other guys. Okay, fine, tell us how our QB is more like them than the dozens/hundreds who busted after a rough career start. I mean we have been asking for someone to make a case beyond stating the truism that outliers exist. Yeah, no kidding. No one denies that. But in order to derive hope from an outlier one needs to draw similarities to differentiate the evaluated player from the fat part of the distribution curve — otherwise, the background percentage of success applies. No one has been able to do that. They think “but Josh Allen did it,” is a mic drop discussion winner. No, sir. No, sir  it is not.

The fact that you believe it’s an indictment that we “can’t predict the future,” well it’s not even a relevant criticism. We are not predicting the future. We are handicapping the various outcomes.

1, your not handicapping when you call someone a bust. You are predicting a specific outcome

2. I've read you guys talk about bust quarterbacks anecdotally... but you have never provided any data points about rookie starters versus 2nd year. Average stats over that last 20 years or anything like that...  you provide a couple handfuls of names... but that's pretty easy and a no Basinger when somewhere around 30 or 40 qbs fail every year... so easy to go out on a limb and be right with that one. 

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, PorP said:

1, your not handicapping when you call someone a bust. You are predicting a specific outcome

2. I've read you guys talk about bust quarterbacks anecdotally... but you have never provided any data points about rookie starters versus 2nd year. Average stats over that last 20 years or anything like that...  you provide a couple handfuls of names... but that's pretty easy and a no Basinger when somewhere around 30 or 40 qbs fail every year... so easy to go out on a limb and be right with that one. 

1. He’s a probable bust. It is possible I used shorthand and just called him “a bust” without qualifying it a few time. Can you forgive me?

2. When the pro side provides some — any — data that even approaches the amount of work done on our side, perhaps it will provoke a discussion. As of now, our data is conceded as unrefuted. We are very comfortable sending this one to the jury as is.

[TuscanyTile2]

28 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

So we are comparing Wilson to one of the greatest QBs in NFL history in order to justify moving on at QB?  OK.  Makes sense. 

Nobody is saying to move on from Zach yet.  Just that it's possible to succeed (or even show great promise) without great weapinz.

[PorP]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

1. He’s a probable bust. It is possible I used shorthand and just called him “a bust” without qualifying it a few time. Can you forgive me?

2. When the pro side provides some — any — data that even approaches the amount of work done on our side, perhaps it will provoke a discussion. As of now, our data is conceded as unrefuted. We are very comfortable sending this one to the jury as is.

Your mom factual OPINION is duely noted. 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, PorP said:

Your mom factual OPINION is duely noted. 
 

 

Vegas has built a $100B/year industry from people who think they are exempt from math.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

7 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Nobody is saying to move on from Zach yet.  Just that it's possible to succeed (or even show great promise) without great weapinz.

Yes - if you are Aaron Rodgers - an all-time great.  What does that prove with regard to 2nd year QBs drafted last year?  Nothing.

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Yes - if you are Aaron Rodgers - an all-time great.  What does that prove with regard to 2nd year QBs drafted last year?  Nothing.

It proves hope is a helluva drug

[PorP]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

 

Vegas has built a $100B/year industry from people who think they are exempt from math.

Ummmmm.

Math is only valuable when you can quantify and solve for the variables. You can't do either

Vegas' only variable is a fool and thier money are soon separated on stupid odds that promise get rich quick. 

That and mostly slot machines

[jgb]

1 hour ago, PorP said:

Ummmmm.

Math is only valuable when you can quantify and solve for the variables. You can't do either

Vegas' only variable is a fool and thier money are soon separated on stupid odds that promise get rich quick. 

That and mostly slot machines

Again, you misunderstand the entire exercise. We are not solving anything or predicting the future. We are assigning probabilities to possible outcomes based on historical data. No more, no less. The difference is we have shown our work and the proponents have not. You just haven’t given us anything to really debate. Just “you can’t know he will bust” and (not talking about you specifically) “you must want him to fail.”

The only thing left to do, if you believe, is make me pay for it and help a good cause at the same time. I’ve offered the same terms to everyone: I will bet he will not finish the year top 16 in QBR or QB rating. Minimum 5 games started for action. Loser pays the charity of winner’s choice. You may pick the stakes then I’m free to agree to any amount less than that. So you don’t think you can scare me off by saying “A million dollars!”

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

Your are conflating the specific and the general.

Really, it’s erroneous to think that without any real talen in his first gig, maybe a little patience would make more sense than scrapping the whole thing and starting over with all that means.  On any level.

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Really, it’s erroneous to think that without any real talen in his first gig, maybe a little patience would make more sense than scrapping the whole thing and starting over with all that means.  On any level.

You’re entitled to your opinion but not to mine. If that’s the position your want to debate against, you should probably go find someone who holds it.

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

You’re entitled to your opinion but not to mine. If that’s the position your want to debate against, you should probably go find someone who holds it.

I’m not making an opinion for you to take, you said mu opinion was erroneous.  Guess what that sounds like?

You use that worn out line too much on a message board.  That’s my opinion.

[jgb]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

I’m not making an opinion, you said mine was erroneous.  Guess what that sounds like ?

I said you were conflating two concepts. 

[GandWFan]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

If he can't make the squad you trade him or cut him.  There's another assett that has to be left off the squad to keep him on it.  If he's not going to play because of scheme or our coaches hate him or he sucks and is a dog he's not an assett to the NY Jets.  There's value in a roster spot for someone who might contribute even if it's just in practice.  

JD will fleece Rhule for a 4th.  Then Mims will be off the team.  That is a smart GM.

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

No. It’s the entire universe of highly drafted QBs in the last 20 or so years. It’s not even a sample — it’s the ENTIRE POPULATION. QBs that start bad in overwhelming proportion stay that way. Over 90%. The pro camp points to Josh Allen and 1-2 other guys. Okay, fine, tell us how our QB is more like them than the dozens who busted after a rough career start. I mean we have been asking for someone to make a case beyond stating the truism that outliers exist. We have been asking now for several Jets QBs but it never comes. No one denies outliers exist. But in order to derive reasonable hope from an outlier one needs to draw similarities to differentiate the evaluated player from the fat part of the distribution curve — otherwise, the background percentage of success chance applies. No one has been able to do that. They think “but Josh Allen did it,” is a mic drop discussion winner. No, sir. No, sir it is not. The only argument that wins is if someone takes the position that it is “impossible” for the QB to turn it around. And I’d be right there with you rejecting that position.

The fact that you believe it’s an indictment that we “can’t predict the future,” well it’s not even a relevant criticism. We are not predicting the future. We are handicapping the various outcomes.

I could list a bunch of reasons, probably 20 why Zach is likely to be successful but you wouldn't be open to them and just dismiss them out of hand. I will say I am concerned about the knee but maybe its a sign....great Jets QBs need wonky knees.

[JohnnyLV]

DISCLAIMER: NOT SOMETHING I WOULD DO. Just a thought exercise on what I could see JD doing

OK, thought: We know Robbie doesn't love Carolina (though maybe Baker changes that) and obviously Mims wants out.  Robbie would be a solid addition to our receiving corps and we know JD regretted not retaining him. What would a Mims for Robbie trade look like? Maybe Mims and a conditional 5th depending on performance? If I remember Robbie was pretty successful from the slot so Berrios/Robbie would be solid combo.

Like I said I would rather just get some capital for Mims and keep Cager and Irvin Charles. Might be why this was leaked as that might be the Jets plan as well.

[jgb]

14 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I could list a bunch of reasons, probably 20 why Zach is likely to be successful but you wouldn't be open to them and just dismiss them out of hand. I will say I am concerned about the knee but maybe its a sign....great Jets QBs need wonky knees.

Lol see you defeat yourself before even giving anyone a chance. Like I said — our position wins on default judgment.

[JohnnyLV]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

Lol see you defeat yourself before even giving anyone a chance. Like I said — our position wins on default judgment.

Ill give you 10-20 solid reasons we should still be excited for Zach later then.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Ill give you 10-20 solid reasons we should still be excited for Zach later then.

Can't wait!

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Ill give you 10-20 solid reasons we should still be excited for Zach later then.

I also can’t wait, no BS. 

[JohnnyLV]

15 minutes ago, jgb said:

I also can’t wait, no BS. 

 

20 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Can't wait!

Just have an open mind to some of the things

[SoFlaJets]

18 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

He had TWENTY THREE receptions in 2020. 

I just watched Joe Flacco's 2020 highlight reel and I'm not seeing the "a lot" part. I did see about three amazing catches with about another four routine catches. I did see a lot of other players catch touchdown passes. 

At least you watched it, last season he had only 8 catches 23 balls thrown his way Mims was inactive 2 games vs Pats and Broncos Wks 2 &3 and he did Not Play in 4 others no wonder he wants out

[southparkcpa]

5 hours ago, billo83 said:

Do you know what the ownership details are? I'm sure there is language in the agreement dealing with survivorship, and incapacitation, etc. I would think that there is something in place allowing Chris to take control if Woody is not able to. I can't blame Woody for taking a once in a lifetime opportunity to become an ambassador. 

Whatever they are....  a $5 billion organization was left to an unaccomplished loser.  If that's in a written agreement... even worse. You want to defend the owner of one of the 3-4 worst teams in the NFL.  I won't stop you.

[jeremy2020]

I didn't even know Mims was still alive.

[southparkcpa]

3 hours ago, GandWFan said:

Did the Jets appreciate in value while Chris was in charge?  Yes, so pretty smart business move.  Plus giving it to someone he trusts will not screw him.  Brilliant!

But you're a CPA.  You knew this.

The value of the team went up in spite of being amongst the worst 3 teams the last 10 years. He did nothing to help that... in fact, imagine we had been to the playoffs a few times. Weak argument.  An idiot in a great real estate market who owns a house is still an idiot.

Woody probably cost himself a billion putting losers' in place and driving this team downwards.