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After a slow start, JD is on a foundation building streak


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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Becton was a bad draft pick that early.  Far too risky of a player.

He had serious weight issues in his past and his overall size/body type was a red flag for injury.

Take a guy like him in the 3rd - sure.  But at #11 overall when Wirfs was still on the board was a mistake.  

you can argue it was a bad pick or good pick where he got drafted but he was a top pick - despite your red flags every player can be said to have trouble etc...my point is the only reason he is viewed as a bad pick is due to injury, if healthy he woudl be fine.

and even if I agree with you on the take him in the 3rd, he would have not been there in the 3rd. Height is 20/20, but at the time fine pick.

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53 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

“Joe Douglas because he just doesn’t communicate. Just does not communicate at all.”

"Yeah, it's crazy.  All he does it send us bad players and take our good Draft picks.  Don't like him at all."

"This is anonymous, right?  Don't share my name.  Gotta run and grab a sandwich in downtown Charlotte now."

 

21 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

Could be this too. 

The poll was of agents, not GMs.  Those are guys complaining about contracts, not trades.  Think Mims or Joe Douglas promised Sam Darnold’s parents he’d do ‘everything in his power’ to protect him

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Where there is smoke, there is fire.  Something funny is going on at Florham Park with the Johnsons.  The medical care for the players is a sign. 

Remember when Woody said at last year's draft that he knew Zach Wilson better than his own children?  He could mistake Zach Wilson for one of his teenage children.  How did that work out?  

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1 hour ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

One day this board won’t have pricks like you bud

if you think me pointing out that bectons injury is not really a basis to call him a bust and that makes me a prick - hate to see what happens to your feelings when someone actually is a prick to you. This is a message board not a free hugs booth. sorry your having such a hard time lol

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Just now, BornJetsFan1983 said:

if you think me pointing out that bectons injury is not really a basis to call him a bust and that makes me a prick - hate to see what happens to your feelings when someone actually is a prick to you. This is a message board not a free hugs booth. sorry your having such a hard time lol

But it is a basis to call him a bust.  Before he was drafted people worried about his weight and whether his body would hold up.   The guy has drafted other players with injury concerns.  Most notably Bryce Hall.  Hall has held up, but if he got hurt could you act like it was unforeseen?  If so, then why celebrate Sauce over Stingley?

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1 hour ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

2. 2021-2022 drafts

After drafting QB Wilson, the Jets have a real chance of hitting on 15 of the next 16 players drafted.  And hitting big in some cases!

Looking like Studs (pro bowl potential):  WR Moore, G AVT, CB Sauce, WR Wilson, RB Hall (who just needs some holes)

Looking like Quality 2022 Starters:  CB Carter II, Edge JJ or Clemons on passing downs

Future Starter:  LB Sherwood, at either Mike or Will.  This one is much needed with Mosley and Alexander likely leaving next year.  At Edge, both JJ & Clemons.  At Safety, I’m betting on Pinnock.  Contingency for Lawson and Joyner

Quality Depth:  RB Carter, CB Echols, S Pinnock, TE Ruckert, OT Mitchell

Haven’t Seen Enough:  DT Marshall who did flash against the Falcons

Potential Cut:  Nasilreen

Particularly this year, the team drafted a lot of guys that people here were hoping they would draft. Elijah Moore, AVT, and MC1 all look very promising from last year, but this draft is pure potential until we see it on the field. I do think Sauce and Breece are legitimate RoY candidates, but they gotta go out there and do it on the field in games that count for this Jets team. 
 
I’d be listing Ruckert and Mitchell as future starters, too, but, again, they have to prove it on the field. They easily have that potential, though. 
 
This year, they need to get some actual wins, though. Preferably with Zach in there. That’s the best case scenario for the franchise; Zach looking like the QB they thought they drafted. 

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36 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

if you think me pointing out that bectons injury is not really a basis to call him a bust and that makes me a prick - hate to see what happens to your feelings when someone actually is a prick to you. This is a message board not a free hugs booth. sorry your having such a hard time lol

Read your response that I was responding to.  It was kind of a pricky response, no?  I’m always more than happy to be snarky back.  Maybe I’m the prick.

I tried to explain that he had bust potential because his weight and maturity could lead and likely led to him not staying on the field.  Respectfully, why is that hard to understand?

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Rightfully so, Douglas has gotten a lot of praise for his ability to fleece other GMs in the trade market.

But the bottom line is those trades mean little if you can't maximize the value of those picks by actually hitting on them.

Douglas has had a ton of draft capital and cap space to work with, got to his his own HC and hand-pick his QB, but the actual results have been what, 12 wins in 3 years?

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47 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

But it is a basis to call him a bust.  Before he was drafted people worried about his weight and whether his body would hold up.   The guy has drafted other players with injury concerns.  Most notably Bryce Hall.  Hall has held up, but if he got hurt could you act like it was unforeseen?  If so, then why celebrate Sauce over Stingley?

Is it? Seems like a big difference between a guy drafted high that was undeserving and someone drafted high that got hurt.

Other picks had stories of issues but he was seen overall as a top pick, he was not some 3rd pick etc. The idea that at the time becton was seen as this guy who was just going to be hurt all the time, is not accurate. I rather you be honest and make the case that he had a poor draft and not apply some magical injuries count too when talking about the GM.

Bryce hall was a 6th rounder man, that we got any serviceable snaps from him is an A+. Im not sure where you were going with the sauce comment or the hall getting hurt...but to clarify I think a bust is someone that cant play the game at a high level and bad draft is not hitting on any of your picks. It seems to me Joe got talented guys but like eveyrone missed on a couple. 

 

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2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Becton was a bad draft pick that early.  Far too risky of a player.

He had serious weight issues in his past and his overall size/body type was a red flag for injury.

Take a guy like him in the 3rd - sure.  But at #11 overall when Wirfs was still on the board was a mistake.  

 

 

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23 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Read your response that I was responding to.  It was kind of a pricky response, no?  I’m always more than happy to be snarky back.  Maybe I’m the prick.

I tried to explain that he had bust potential because his weight and maturity could lead and likely led to him not staying on the field.  Respectfully, why is that hard to understand?

maybe we are both pricks? idk, but to your point and question , the over all evaluation of him was he was a top 5 draftee at his position. the concern you share about weight and maturity was not a the over all projection of this kid or he would have been in the third rounder or later....all the top picks you could find some concern, but overall they were likely going to be good players for teams and you could not fault a GM for drafting one. 

If all our first rounders got hurt this year or B Hall breaks his leg etc, that doesn't make Joe a bad drafter or those guys busts and neither does becton getting hurt and rehurt. Its just an unjury.

 

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5 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

maybe we are both pricks? idk, but to your point and question , the over all evaluation of him was he was a top 5 draftee at his position. the concern you share about weight and maturity was not a the over all projection of this kid or he would have been in the third rounder or later....all the top picks you could find some concern, but overall they were likely going to be good players for teams and you could not fault a GM for drafting one. 

If all our first rounders got hurt this year or B Hall breaks his leg etc, that doesn't make Joe a bad drafter or those guys busts and neither does becton getting hurt and rehurt. Its just an unjury.

 

Weight topped the list on his weaknesses.  He had a weight problem when he was younger and lost it, but it was a serious concern.JD took a chance on the upside potential.  He lost.  It's okay, hopefully it was a learning lesson.

Weaknesses

Weight could become a major issue without discipline

Opens outside half too early in pass sets

Throws himself off-balance when loading up punch

..........

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/mekhi-becton/32004245-4381-4547-3cf4-9d445d134d9a

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3 hours ago, David Harris said:

The Athletic interviewed 26 agents. Thought this was interesting.

 

10. Among GMs or front-office leaders, whom do you trust the least?

Eagles GM Howie Roseman (four votes)

• “I don’t trust what comes out of his mouth because he lied to me.”

• “I don’t think he’s very transparent. He kind of tells you what you think you want to hear. He does the same thing with the players.”

Jets front office (four votes)

• “I trust them the least, but (GM) Joe Douglas I actually trust as a man. There’s a lot of s— going on in that building, whether it’s (senior director, football administration) Dave Socie or their f—— ownership.”

• “Joe Douglas because he just doesn’t communicate. Just does not communicate at all.”

I only assume this is because Joe Douglas kicks their ass in negotiations and comes out on top. VICTORY! 

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While everyone is right about (now) needing to translate to game day wins, I guess I’m just excited about some of the decisions and progress JD has made the past 2 years after early failures including his first draft (unless something drastic happens) and signings like Kalil & Perriman.

Is it too early to call most of them wins?  Yes.

Will JD’s ultimate success be tied to the success of Saleh & Wilson?  Probably.

Does that mean he made the wrong decisions on Saleh & Wilson?  I don’t think so based on the sentiment at the time and the alternatives available.  I also believe he has partnered well with Saleh to find players that fit the system and aggressively invested in offense to support Wilson, signs of a good GM.

Foundationally, there is a lot to like.  The intriguing thing to me are a number of tandems that have the potential to be top quarter in the league.  When JD came, we had no strengths.  I now see the following.

WRs:  Moore & Wilson are showing up on film, not just on paper.  Explosive, fast, OPEN as in pick your poison.

RBs:  Hall & Carter are great compliments to each other.  Carter was top 3 in yards after contact as a rookie and Breece Hall has all the tools to translate into a top 10 running back … this year.

TEs:  Across practices & games, Conklin is looking like one of the steals of free agency while Uzomah is a proven starter that showed up big in last year’s playoffs.

CBs:  Sauce looks like a fly on sh*te when he plays man or match up zone.  Look at the tape!!!  DJ Reed was graded as a top 10 corner in football last year. 

DTs:  Q and JFM might be a top 5 tandem rushing the passer, such an important ingredient when you’ve invested so much acquiring Edge talent.  QB steps up into the pocket to avoid the outside rush, sack to Q or JFM.

Edge:  Lawson & JJ or Lawson & Clemons.  Followed by a combo of Martin & Huff.  QB looks to escape the pocket from Q or JFM, sack to Lawson or JJ/Clemons.

I’m giddy about the puzzle pieces coming together and finally feel we at least have some exciting talent, something I feel we haven’t had since 2015.

Season Prediction: 4-13 as half the roster gets gang green and Elijah Moore decides to pursue a career as a mime
 

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Mims is a great example of why organizational harmony is paramount.

Mims is a good young player with talent. He showed that his rookie season…because he fit that scheme…was drafted for that scheme.

He does NOT fit this scheme or the teams priorities (special teams is a must if you’re not WR 1 or 2).

This is why having the GM & HC aligned matter so much. You have to draft players that fit the vision and the scheme. 
 

With Saleh, Douglas’ drafts have looked terrific. We have a young nucleus to grow…But, we need some wins and the young players with promise to actually start making an impact not just a few highlight shots in garbage time.

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Weight topped the list on his weaknesses.  He had a weight problem when he was younger and lost it, but it was a serious concern.JD took a chance on the upside potential.  He lost.  It's okay, hopefully it was a learning lesson.

Weaknesses

Weight could become a major issue without discipline

Opens outside half too early in pass sets

Throws himself off-balance when loading up punch

..........

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/mekhi-becton/32004245-4381-4547-3cf4-9d445d134d9a

im not srue where you disagree with me, all draftee have strength and weakness, it was a top choice, thats it. it was argueably a good pick. Just got injured. 

Hopefully he gets healthy

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55 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Mims is a great example of why organizational harmony is paramount.

Mims is a good young player with talent. He showed that his rookie season…because he fit that scheme…was drafted for that scheme.

He does NOT fit this scheme or the teams priorities (special teams is a must if you’re not WR 1 or 2).

This is why having the GM & HC aligned matter so much. You have to draft players that fit the vision and the scheme. 
 

With Saleh, Douglas’ drafts have looked terrific. We have a young nucleus to grow…But, we need some wins and the young players with promise to actually start making an impact not just a few highlight shots in garbage time.

isnt it crazy to have a GM and HC on the same page!!1 awesome

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1 hour ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

While everyone is right about (now) needing to translate to game day wins, I guess I’m just excited about some of the decisions and progress JD has made the past 2 years after early failures including his first draft (unless something drastic happens) and signings like Kalil & Perriman.

Is it too early to call most of them wins?  Yes.

Will JD’s ultimate success be tied to the success of Saleh & Wilson?  Probably.

Does that mean he made the wrong decisions on Saleh & Wilson?  I don’t think so based on the sentiment at the time and the alternatives available.  I also believe he has partnered well with Saleh to find players that fit the system and aggressively invested in offense to support Wilson, signs of a good GM.

Foundationally, there is a lot to like.  The intriguing thing to me are a number of tandems that have the potential to be top quarter in the league.  When JD came, we had no strengths.  I now see the following.

WRs:  Moore & Wilson are showing up on film, not just on paper.  Explosive, fast, OPEN as in pick your poison.

RBs:  Hall & Carter are great compliments to each other.  Carter was top 3 in yards after contact as a rookie and Breece Hall has all the tools to translate into a top 10 running back … this year.

TEs:  Across practices & games, Conklin is looking like one of the steals of free agency while Uzomah is a proven starter that showed up big in last year’s playoffs.

CBs:  Sauce looks like a fly on sh*te when he plays man or match up zone.  Look at the tape!!!  DJ Reed was graded as a top 10 corner in football last year. 

DTs:  Q and JFM might be a top 5 tandem rushing the passer, such an important ingredient when you’ve invested so much acquiring Edge talent.  QB steps up into the pocket to avoid the outside rush, sack to Q or JFM.

Edge:  Lawson & JJ or Lawson & Clemons.  Followed by a combo of Martin & Huff.  QB looks to escape the pocket from Q or JFM, sack to Lawson or JJ/Clemons.

I’m giddy about the puzzle pieces coming together and finally feel we at least have some exciting talent, something I feel we haven’t had since 2015.

Season Prediction: 4-13 as half the roster gets gang green and Elijah Moore decides to pursue a career as a mime
 

do you think 10 W's are possible with this crew this year? I do. I think we have a shot. with good game plans. games are won on just a hand full of plays and we have fixed alot of very big holes. 

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20 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

do you think 10 W's are possible with this crew this year? I do. I think we have a shot. with good game plans. games are won on just a hand full of plays and we have fixed alot of very big holes. 

I think it will come down to QB play, coaching and how fast the young bucks can ramp up.

Plus staying healthy which we’ve been bottom of the league at 3 years running.

I do think we have a shot if some things fall into place and if they do not for some of our opponents.  Would never root for it but when was the last time NE or the Bills lost their QB for a significant time.  

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26 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

im not srue where you disagree with me, all draftee have strength and weakness, it was a top choice, thats it. it was argueably a good pick. Just got injured. 

Hopefully he gets healthy

All I'm saying is it was a high risk pick and went too early for that high a risk...

Weight problems on a 6'7" man is a serious red flag.  

I'm not killing Joe for it, but he rolled the dice on the huge upside and lost.  That is all.  

Let me be clear though, this is not a fluke injury - it was a 4-6 week injury that turned into a 2 year injury - with a lot to do with him essentially not rehabbing properly and gaining far too much weight.  

Blame who you want - but it was a major red flag and that red flag came to fruition.  

 

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5 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Is it? Seems like a big difference between a guy drafted high that was undeserving and someone drafted high that got hurt.

Other picks had stories of issues but he was seen overall as a top pick, he was not some 3rd pick etc. The idea that at the time becton was seen as this guy who was just going to be hurt all the time, is not accurate. I rather you be honest and make the case that he had a poor draft and not apply some magical injuries count too when talking about the GM.

Bryce hall was a 6th rounder man, that we got any serviceable snaps from him is an A+. Im not sure where you were going with the sauce comment or the hall getting hurt...but to clarify I think a bust is someone that cant play the game at a high level and bad draft is not hitting on any of your picks. It seems to me Joe got talented guys but like eveyrone missed on a couple. 

 

The point is that durability is part of the scouting process.  So is work ethic.  Plenty of people predicted these issues with Becton.  They appear to have been correct

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Eh i dont know. We need to see some results from this foundation. In the end this game and league is about wins and loses. Does some of that have to do with Coaching? Of course.

When you peel back the onion to me JD has been a mix, but improving. Most of his 2020 YEAR, not just draft, but FA moves were pretty rough. 21 is going to depend on Zach, who just hasnt delivered tangible hope or results outside "arm talent" on tape. Zach being a bust or good is going to be pretty tied to JD's legacy. I think he had a good offseason last year but still, for whatever reason, money mostly, refuses to get that BIG Playmaker. 

JD needs results this year.

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11 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I think it will come down to QB play, coaching and how fast the young bucks can ramp up.

Plus staying healthy which we’ve been bottom of the league at 3 years running.

I do think we have a shot if some things fall into place and if they do not for some of our opponents.  Would never root for it but when was the last time NE or the Bills lost their QB for a significant time.  

Perfectly stated.

my original thought was 6-7 and I will stick with that however, if Zach eliminates most of the mistakes and plays significantly better combined with the young guys and improvements within the coaching staff, then yeah maybe 10 could happen.

for whatever it is worth, I do think Zach is going to be a much improved qb.

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To this point, my confidence in our HC/QB has been fading.  However, they were/are both rookies and so ought to do better in year two, right?  So we have that going for us.

I think our team is set up for a winning 2022 season.  So 9 & 8 right? 

Go Jets!

 

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13 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

im not srue where you disagree with me, all draftee have strength and weakness, it was a top choice, thats it. it was argueably a good pick. Just got injured. 

Hopefully he gets healthy

Your pretty much alone on this island.. you honestly think Bectons weight/work ethic issues didn’t contribute to where he is now?

Carl Lawson was a case of “just got injured”. You’ll likely never see Becton play in another game for the Jets.

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14 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

Mims is a great example of why organizational harmony is paramount.

Mims is a good young player with talent. He showed that his rookie season…because he fit that scheme…was drafted for that scheme.

He does NOT fit this scheme or the teams priorities (special teams is a must if you’re not WR 1 or 2).

This is why having the GM & HC aligned matter so much. You have to draft players that fit the vision and the scheme. 
 

With Saleh, Douglas’ drafts have looked terrific. We have a young nucleus to grow…But, we need some wins and the young players with promise to actually start making an impact not just a few highlight shots in garbage time.

They look terrific because the team has sucked and drafted early and unloaded Adams before Saleh got here for extra picks.  Russell Wilson getting hurt last year wasn't planned by either Saleh or Douglas.  

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2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Do the exercise where you list the top five players on the Jets and you realize that two of them are extremely expensive guards, one is a nickel corner,  maybe a couple of rookies you don’t really know about, and Elijah Moore

The Jets haven’t nailed a draft pick since Revis. It’s pretty incredible. 
 

As far as Douglas goes, win some games this season. I’d prefer the T-shirt’s read no excuses instead of positive vibes.

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