Zach Wilson: "Could Be Ready for Week 1"

[FidelioJet]

7 minutes ago, varjet said:

If Zach is not significantly better this year than last year, or if he gets hurt again, JD is going to have to sign a FA QB, likely a Jimmy G. 

He will cost a fair bit of $, which will affect whether Lawson, Corey Davis and Fant can be kept around (with waiving and not resigning Ross P, there is no C in development, so we will have no choice on paying a C).  

M. White and Rankins could have been let go for significant cap savings.  Those are other head scratchers I had.  I don't see this team being much worse without Rankins and White-I would have rolled with Marshall and Streveler and saved the $6mm.  

I think this is right.   This team is built to win now. While all of this talent is on first contracts.   ZW has to show real growth this year for JD not to bring in real legitimate competition.  I think Zach probably has to show more than Josh Allen did in year 2.  

[FidelioJet]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

It's just always this way with failing NYJ QBs. Same story again and again.

Progress.  Growth.  Showing he can recognize a problem and fix it.  I think that’s a very good sign.  Something to build on and believe in. 

[jgb]

7 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Progress.  Growth.  Showing he can recognize a problem and fix it.  I think that’s a very good sign.  Something to build on and believe in. 

Yes, you're posted that before and I specifically praised you and for it and upvoted you. Of course, it's a little cherry-picky and his overall passer rating for those games was only 83 but ok, it's a glimmer of hope in the sea of despair, I'll give ya that. What else ya got?

[munchmemory]

11 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I think this is right.   This team is built to win now. While all of this talent is on first contracts.   ZW has to show real growth this year for JD not to bring in real legitimate competition.  I think Zach probably has to show more than Josh Allen did in year 2.  

Four to six wins?   Absolutely.

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

When I come on here or mistakenly glance at social media and see posts hyping Zach up beyond reason, I find it tiresome and less enjoyable because there is little room for discussion/opposing views with certain people who have already anointed him as Burrow Jr.

Feel free to be optimistic, I won't disparage anyone for that.  But I come on a forum like this to discuss points about this team (which are usually bad given their lack of success), not to circle-jerk about how magical people think this team will be.

So is there a side of the coin for anyone like me, or is it only for optimists like you? 

The solution is to ignore (the actual button) those you claim to be the "blatant Zach trolls" and stop complaining about it.

I have no issue with discussion about Zach even negative. But I find the pointless "Zach sucks" Zach is unathletic" posts to be really ridiculous.

[FidelioJet]

Just now, jgb said:

Yes, you're posted that before and I specifically praised you and for it and upvoted you. What else ya got?

Yes.  I remember, was actually going to mention that.  Thank you!
Well, we obviously saw the bucs game - he was very good, playing with garbage.  I actually think the first half of the Philly was his best work.  Second half he had no chance.  
 

Look, I get it - he didn’t have a good first 8 games.  But his final four were a pretty big step in the right direction.  If he looked like the first 8 weeks all year last year. I would be right with, accepted I was wrong.   I’ve been wrong plenty.  

But it’s just that he was better, he was noticeably better in the areas that were his weakest.
There is reason for optimism and that’s the part that bothers me. This, he had a tough first 8 games so he’s a guaranteed bust.   

[munchmemory]

18 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I have no issue with discussion about Zach even negative. But I find the pointless "Zach sucks" Zach is unathletic" posts to be really ridiculous.

But, at least so far, Zach has sucked.  We're all hoping the switch gets turned on.  But that does not change last season and this preseason.

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Four to six wins?   Absolutely.

Eh. The talent is there (if it pans out) for this team to compete for a championship over the next 3 to 4 years (after this year) IF the ZDub’s can become a top 10 QB.  

[Bugg]

If they do in fact start the little guy, suspect we are gonna find out some very uncomfortable truths very quickly. And see Flacco, White and/or Super Chris start some games no later than October. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Wonder what would happen if Woodrow walked into Saleh's office and said "Beat the Ravens, or you're fired"

Like what kind of performance would we see Week 1

LaFleur at least talks like a man disgusted with losing.

Saleh sounds like a man who has more urgency taking a dump in the morning than with trying to win football games.  Everything is "big picture" and "we know where this thing is headed" and "when it flips, you'll see", etc.

[munchmemory]

8 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Eh. The talent is there (if it pans out) for this team to compete for a championship over the next 3 to 4 years (after this year) IF the ZDub’s can become a top 10 QB.  

Oh, three or four years away.  I was thinking you meant this year.  

[Fantasy Island]

When Lamar Jackson is a FA next year. We sign him to a 5 year 231 million dollar guaranteed contract and we get 5 good years of football.

[FidelioJet]

Just now, munchmemory said:

Oh, three or four years away.  I was thinking you meant this year.  

Well, I mean next season they could be legit threat (and for 3 years after that) I think this season they can compete for a playoff spot.  If and only if, we see ZW take a major step, Moore stays healthy, G Wilson develops.  A lot of ifs, but nothing outrageous needs to happen to be truly competitive this year. 
Fortunes turn quickly in the NFL.  

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

When Lamar Jackson is a FA next year. We sign him to a 5 year 231 million dollar guaranteed contract and we get 5 good years of football.

What happens when the Z - Dubs out plays him a week from Sunday?

[Fantasy Island]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

What happens the Z - Dubs out plays him a week from Sunday?

I hope he does, but I would not bet on it.  

[munchmemory]

2 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

I hope he does, but I would not bet on it.  

You know what's crazy?   I think Darnold had better skills than Zach.   I hate myself for saying it.  Bui at least right now, that's what I see.  Zach just looks like he needed another couple years in college to hone is skills.   And, better competition.

[Warfish]

51 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Honestly, I don’t thinks a fair assesment of what I said. I guess the question is, do you believe trolls can ruin legitimate discourse?

I don't believe we have many trolls.  Compared to other forums, this place in near-on troll free.

If you think differently, please name them, I'm begging you.  Because I'm pretty sick of the straw-manning about all these many, many "trolls" that no one seems to ever name.

I read this forum alot (obviously).  The only people I see regularly critical/negative/whatever are myself, Jets80, jgb and T0m. 

I'm not seeing alot of others, certainly not regularly.

51 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

btw. I surely don’t think you’re one of them.  We disagree but I never find you to be disingenuous.  

So it's not me, it's not jgb, others have said it's not 80.  So is it T0m, like literally just T0m?  Is T0m the Ubertroll?

Who are these many trolls so ubiquitous, so everywhere, ("8 THREADS RUINED!!!") that I seem to be completely blind to here at JN?

I only have and have had for a long time one person on ignore, and he sure as hell ain't a Zach Hater troll, lol.

51 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

My concern is with the hacks that destroy every thread.  I typically ignore most of them (not ignore button but just don’t bother) and hope they go away, but new people don’t know yet and it becomes a sh*t show and becomes unreadable.  

That’s all. 

Honestly, what do you expect to be topic #1?  Kicker?  Strength & Conditioning Coach?  The Marketing Dept.?

When you don't have a Franchise QB, and you win 2 and 4 games over two years, every conversation is inherently going to become about the lack of a Franchise QB.  Rule #298 of NFL fandom.

Today, as we stand right this god damn second, we do not have a franchise QB.  

So of course most threads (and let me be clear, most of the ones claimed to be "derailed" are LITERALLY NAMED AFTER WILON, like this very thread, which is about Wilson playing (or not) in Week 1) end up discussing Wilson.  It's human nature.

So again, if folks bother you, ignore them or skip their hateraid drinking threads.  It saves us doubly, those threads die without replies (good) and we don't have to hear the constant drumbeat of this kind of exchange.

[Warfish]

16 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

What happens when the Z - Dubs out plays him a week from Sunday?

If we win, that would be very, VERY enjoyable.

For the record.

[jgb]

37 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes.  I remember, was actually going to mention that.  Thank you!
Well, we obviously saw the bucs game - he was very good, playing with garbage.  I actually think the first half of the Philly was his best work.  Second half he had no chance.  
 

Look, I get it - he didn’t have a good first 8 games.  But his final four were a pretty big step in the right direction.  If he looked like the first 8 weeks all year last year. I would be right with, accepted I was wrong.   I’ve been wrong plenty.  

But it’s just that he was better, he was noticeably better in the areas that were his weakest.
There is reason for optimism and that’s the part that bothers me. This, he had a tough first 8 games so he’s a guaranteed bust.   

Well, I disclaim anyone who says he's a "guaranteed" anything. I also think it's a bit manipulative to choose the last 4 games. It's more defensible from an analysis perspective to split to season between his 5 pre-injury games and his 7 post-injury games. It's a natural break, something changed, did he learn anything from watching for a few weeks? Let's see.

PRE-INJURY (5 games)

Compl. %: 57

TD/INT: 4/9

YPG: 195

Passer Rating: 64

POST-INURY (7 games)

Compl. %: 54

TD/INT: 5/2

YPG: 166

Passer Rating: 75

From TD/INT and Passer rating, he was better after the injury. But from a yardage and completion percentage he was actually worse.  Was he really that much "better" in the 2nd half? I mean, he made less big mistakes but his YPG, YPA and completion percentage all dropped. He was dialed waaaay back by the coaching staff (probably wisely).

I don't exactly know what to make of all this, but it doesn't seem like a QB that something "clicked" in a positive way at the end of last season. At best, the coaching staff finally got a saddle on the wild, kicking stallion but there is a long way to go before he's a show pony.

The biggest positive that I see is that at least he has shown he can accept instruction and fight against his natural instincts. That's a requirement for growth in any field. Hope he can build on it and the Jets coaches are up to the task.

[maury77]

45 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes.  I remember, was actually going to mention that.  Thank you!
Well, we obviously saw the bucs game - he was very good, playing with garbage.  I actually think the first half of the Philly was his best work.  Second half he had no chance.  
 

Look, I get it - he didn’t have a good first 8 games.  But his final four were a pretty big step in the right direction.  If he looked like the first 8 weeks all year last year. I would be right with, accepted I was wrong.   I’ve been wrong plenty.  

But it’s just that he was better, he was noticeably better in the areas that were his weakest.
There is reason for optimism and that’s the part that bothers me. This, he had a tough first 8 games so he’s a guaranteed bust.   

I agree that he was noticeably better, I just don't think that even the improved version was particularly good. I think he went from one of the worst QBs I've seen to mediocre. So yes, technically better, but it still did not impress me that much. At the end of the season I felt that he seemed like a passable game manager. We need to see a lot more out of him than that. I won't call him a bust because the sample size is too small and he could be great this year; however, IMO I did not see anything special towards the end of the year (even though it was a significant improvement). 

[CanadienJetsFan]

Patience… 

Sophmore Year 2019 

Started nine games

Completed 199 of 319 passes for 2,382, 11 touchdowns and nine interceptions

Ran for 167 yards and three touchdowns

Passed for at least 200 yards in eight of nine starts

Had two 300-yard games (Toledo and SDSU)

Threw for four touchdowns at Umass, tying a career high

Career-best 72 rushing yards and two touchdowns against Hawai'i

2019 Maxwell Award watch list nominee

2019 CFPA National Performer of the Year watch list nominee

 

Junior Year 2020 
 

PFF All-America Second Team

Phil Steele All-America honorable mention

Co-Polynesian College Player of the Year

No. 8 in Heisman Trophy voting in 2020 

Team Captain,

Manning Award Finalist, Walter Camp Player of the Year Semifinalist, Maxwell Award Semifinalist and Davey O’Brien Semifinalist 

Finished the 2020 season ranked No. 2 nationally in points responsible for (264), passing efficiency (196.4) and completion percentage (73.5); No. 3 in passing yards (3,692), passing touchdowns (33), yards per pass attempt (10.99) and points responsible for per game (22.0); No. 4 in rushing touchdowns by a quarterback (10); No. 5 in passing yards per completion (14.95); No. 8 in total offense (328.8); and No. 10 in passing yards per game (307.7). 

Achieved a 96.5 Clean Pocket Grade from PFF — ranking the highest in the nation and set a new PFF record for an overall passing grade at 95.5 topping Joe Burrow’s 94.9 in 2019. 

Broke a BYU record, previously held by Steve Young, for completion percentage, completing 73.5 percent of his passes in 2020. He also rushed for 255 yards and 10 touchdowns. 

 

 

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Yeah, being pessimistic about his chances to become a FQB is totally an emotional-defense mechanism with absolutely no basis in reality.

 

Um, no one said he was good last year.  Some of us are fans and actually root for Jets players to do well.  

I get it, you need to be able to come on to this forum 10 months from now and be able to say you were first to say he was a bust.  I don't need validation from strangers. I was rooting for Darnold until the end also.  It's what normal fans do.

[nycdan]

41 minutes ago, Warfish said:

If we win, that would be very, VERY enjoyable.

For the record.

But can we really enjoy the win if Ashtyn Davis is still on the roster?

 

[doitny]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Progress.  Growth.  Showing he can recognize a problem and fix it.  I think that’s a very good sign.  Something to build on and believe in. 

thats all good but he cant be like Kelly Bundy where his brain can only hold so much information that every time he learns something new he forgets something old.

he started last year being bad at the short passes but pretty good with the deep stuff, or at least he tried to go deep. end of the season he got much better at the short pass but stop throwing it long. like he forgot how. without going long he just Mike White in a different jersey.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

I have no issue with discussion about Zach even negative. But I find the pointless "Zach sucks" Zach is unathletic" posts to be really ridiculous.

But he does and is

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I don't believe we have many trolls.  Compared to other forums, this place in near-on troll free.

If you think differently, please name them, I'm begging you.  Because I'm pretty sick of the straw-manning about all these many, many "trolls" that no one seems to ever name.

I read this forum alot (obviously).  The only people I see regularly critical/negative/whatever are myself, Jets80, jgb and T0m. 

I'm not seeing alot of others, certainly not regularly.

So it's not me, it's not jgb, others have said it's not 80.  So is it T0m, like literally just T0m?  Is T0m the Ubertroll?

Who are these many trolls so ubiquitous, so everywhere, ("8 THREADS RUINED!!!") that I seem to be completely blind to here at JN?

I only have and have had for a long time one person on ignore, and he sure as hell ain't a Zach Hater troll, lol.

Honestly, what do you expect to be topic #1?  Kicker?  Strength & Conditioning Coach?  The Marketing Dept.?

When you don't have a Franchise QB, and you win 2 and 4 games over two years, every conversation is inherently going to become about the lack of a Franchise QB.  Rule #298 of NFL fandom.

Today, as we stand right this god damn second, we do not have a franchise QB.  

So of course most threads (and let me be clear, most of the ones claimed to be "derailed" are LITERALLY NAMED AFTER WILON, like this very thread, which is about Wilson playing (or not) in Week 1) end up discussing Wilson.  It's human nature.

So again, if folks bother you, ignore them or skip their hateraid drinking threads.  It saves us doubly, those threads die without replies (good) and we don't have to hear the constant drumbeat of this kind of exchange.

 

I think Phil aka Dwight Englewood is most definitely a troll that fits the description Fidelio is talking about.  But he gets banned like every 2 weeks and I've had him on ignore for years regardless of his username.  So, like, who cares?

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Saul Goodman said:

If he even produces an average season, as in middle of the pack in completion %, TD/INT, YPA, we’ll all be happy with that. It’d be a huge jump and undeniable improvement. 

 

2 hours ago, jgb said:

If he is top 16 in any of the following statistics -- comp. %, TDs, yards -- I will be satisfied with the trend.

 

Pipe down you unreasonable, impossible-bar-to-clear setting, hateful trolls

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

But he does and is

His exceptional athleticism has him sidelined untouched after attempting one of the most geriatric looking juke moves I've ever seen.

 

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Correct sir

Exactly.  Don't understand how the Zach apologists act as if there is this compelling evidence to support Zach Wilson as a franchise QB and it's just that we are choosing to ignore it

I mean a stretch of games where you don't turn the ball over as much....suddenly that is proof we have a franchise QB on our hands?

Whilst ignoring that the coaching staff clearly neutered the kid down the stretch in order to accomplish this.  Dude supposedly has elite arm strength but his intended Air Yards per Attempt against Miami was 5.5 and a positively Mike White-esque 4.6 against Jacksonville.  

This doesn't seem sustainable going forward.  You have to either let the kid push things down field a bit and take your lumps in the INT department OR turn him into a full-on game manager.  And the latter is obviously not an ideal option for a # 2 overall pick.  You can find game manager QBs in free agency or cheap trades.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

Patience… 

Sophmore Year 2019 

Started nine games

Completed 199 of 319 passes for 2,382, 11 touchdowns and nine interceptions

Ran for 167 yards and three touchdowns

Passed for at least 200 yards in eight of nine starts

Had two 300-yard games (Toledo and SDSU)

Threw for four touchdowns at Umass, tying a career high

Career-best 72 rushing yards and two touchdowns against Hawai'i

2019 Maxwell Award watch list nominee

2019 CFPA National Performer of the Year watch list nominee

 

Junior Year 2020 
 

PFF All-America Second Team

Phil Steele All-America honorable mention

Co-Polynesian College Player of the Year

No. 8 in Heisman Trophy voting in 2020 

Team Captain,

Manning Award Finalist, Walter Camp Player of the Year Semifinalist, Maxwell Award Semifinalist and Davey O’Brien Semifinalist 

Finished the 2020 season ranked No. 2 nationally in points responsible for (264), passing efficiency (196.4) and completion percentage (73.5); No. 3 in passing yards (3,692), passing touchdowns (33), yards per pass attempt (10.99) and points responsible for per game (22.0); No. 4 in rushing touchdowns by a quarterback (10); No. 5 in passing yards per completion (14.95); No. 8 in total offense (328.8); and No. 10 in passing yards per game (307.7). 

Achieved a 96.5 Clean Pocket Grade from PFF — ranking the highest in the nation and set a new PFF record for an overall passing grade at 95.5 topping Joe Burrow’s 94.9 in 2019. 

Broke a BYU record, previously held by Steve Young, for completion percentage, completing 73.5 percent of his passes in 2020. He also rushed for 255 yards and 10 touchdowns. 

oh wow

[jgb]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Um, no one said he was good last year.  Some of us are fans and actually root for Jets players to do well.  

I get it, you need to be able to come on to this forum 10 months from now and be able to say you were first to say he was a bust.  I don't need validation from strangers. I was rooting for Darnold until the end also.  It's what normal fans do.

As to your first paragraph: Not good? Not good? He was historically atrocious.

As to your second paragraph: You are entitled to your opinion but not to mine. Some of us are mature enough to understand the difference between "want" and "predict" because we are not 8 year olds screaming for a candy bar in the supermarket checkout line.

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I think Phil aka Dwight Englewood is most definitely a troll that fits the description Fidelio is talking about.  But he gets banned like every 2 weeks and I've had him on ignore for years regardless of his username.  So, like, who cares?

It's just melodrama to point out that a couple of nuts re-register time and time again so that they can brush away suggestions to simply use the freaking ignore button!

"Oh, no that's not a solution because Phil keeps coming back!!!!! The whole system is broken!!! How can I be expected to protect myself???"

 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, jgb said:

It's just melodrama to point out that a couple of nuts re-register time and time again so that they can brush away suggestions to simply use the freaking ignore button!

"Oh, no that's not a solution because Phil keeps coming back!!!!! The whole system is broken!!! How else can I protect myself on here???"

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Time to use the  spoiler feature and add a trigger warning to my posts, I guess.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I think this is right.   This team is built to win now. While all of this talent is on first contracts.   ZW has to show real growth this year for JD not to bring in real legitimate competition.  I think Zach probably has to show more than Josh Allen did in year 2.  

Why does Wilson need to show more than Allen?  This makes no sense.