Figure It Out - Mike Westhoff

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Except you essentially proved the point, considering that's an inaccurate claim that's no more than repetition of your own past confirmation biases.  The 2006 offseason is the only outlier for that entire period, for a laundry list of reasons beyond any one person, while 2007 and 2008 were both far more similar in their approach to the years that followed than either were to 2006.

Meanwhile, nothing I said actually referenced Rex, but not so coincidentally he is all you and @T0mShane ever think about when Mangini's name is mentioned.  Hatred for Rex is simply the reason for your need to rewrite history years later to fit a new narrative, as Mangini was only retroactively decided to be responsible for entirely new things for the first time ever once Tanny and Rex had far more time to outstay their welcomes.

Don't get me wrong, screw both Tanny and Rex, but no matter how long the list may be of things to hate them for, it doesn't change the reality that all evidence throughout the entirety of Mangini's career have shown him to be a constant failure at what his job actually was in the real world, not the fantasy land that's dependent on things like league-wide conspiracy theories just so you can add extra items onto the list to hate others for.  Don't worry, their lists of incompetence are all already long when even simply based on reality.

2007 produced Revis and Harris.  How is it more similar to 2008 than 06?

Your entire argument above is thus stupid and invalid. 

[slimjasi]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Your entire argument above is thus stupid and invalid. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Built on the back of the roster Mangini handed him, which Rex swiftly dismantled.  

Yeah, Mangini got a raw deal

Should have been able to finish what he started 

One whiff in Gholston shouldn’t have been enough to send him packing 

Also not his fault Favre’s shoulder came apart in ‘08

Last the time this franchise was 8-3 (!) was courtesy of Mangini

Rex’s most embarrassing act of hubris was moving on from Favre for Mark freaking Sanchez

Team was ready to win and the Jets owned Favre’s rights

Only suckers like Tannenbaum and Rex would think a rookie Sancho was a stronger bet than Favre

Favre went on to have a career year in MIN

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

We are used to abysmal failure. We are Jets fans. At least Rex mixed in some fun seasons. Until someone gives us something else to enjoy, I’m going to remember Rex for those two years. His trash years honestly just melt into the background of all the other trash. 

I wish the 2010 team played a better 1st half in PITT

that was a winnable super bowl. 

[Bleedin Green]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

2007 produced Revis and Harris.  Your entire argument above is stupid and invalid. 

The 2007 draft still had nothing in common with the 2006 draft.  That was what you originally claimed, and is wrong.  Of course, if you're now talking about a subset of select individual players, please feel free to touch on the manner in which that "trend" of cherry picking is further supported by the 2008 draft.  Of course, that has always been the moment your argument again blows like the wind, which is common for revisionist history written up years later.

Although I do suppose it makes perfect sense that Mangini was the only person in the entire NFL who knew the secret mysteries of Revis, just as long as we disregard that insignificant little part where the player guru and defensive mastermind had no understanding of his strengths nor how to use him for the next 2 years.  Although I'm sure he did have lots of spare time for scouting, what with all the free time he had thanks to the lack of coaching he apparently did.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Bleedin Green said:

The 2007 draft still had nothing in common with the 2006 draft.  That was what you originally claimed, and is wrong.  Of course, if you're now talking about a subset of select individual players, please feel free to touch on the manner in which that "trend" of cherry picking is further supported by the 2008 draft.  Of course, that has always been the moment your argument again blows like the wind, which is common for revisionist history written up years later.

Although I do suppose it makes perfect sense that Mangini was the only person in the entire NFL who knew the secret mysteries of Revis, just as long as we disregard that insignificant little part where the player guru and defensive mastermind had no understanding of his strengths nor how to use him for the next 2 years.  Although I'm sure he did have lots of spare time for scouting, what with all the free time he had thanks to the lack of coaching he apparently did.

Now do Rex’s drafts

[Jetsfan80]

4 Jets Ring of Honor guys drafted during Mangini’s tenure and Jets fans be like “Yeah that accountant Tannenbaum was a football genius huh who knew”

[Bleedin Green]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Now do Rex’s drafts

Good point, clearly your revisionist history about Mangini isn't due to your nonsensically obsessive pairing of him with Rex.

Not much of a foot guy, I take it.

[sourceworx]

Westy  basically cements the opinion that I've had for years on how to get the Jets to be a perennial contender:

- Make Mangini the President of Football Ops

- Put Tanny back in as GM, reporting to Mangini

- Bring Rex back as the HC, with the stipulation that he has zero input on personnel decisions

Those three moves make the Jets a team to be reckoned with.

[Bleedin Green]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

4 Jets Ring of Honor guys drafted during Mangini’s tenure and Jets fans be like “Yeah that accountant Tannenbaum was a football genius huh who knew”

It's just a damn shame that the coach who sucked at coaching was actually a double-secret-probation mega-GM in hiding, who picked only the good players, until the NFL's secret blood cult collectively conspired against him.

[Bleedin Green]

6 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Westy  basically cements the opinion that I've had for years on how to get the Jets to be a perennial contender:

- Make Mangini the President of Football Ops

- Put Tanny back in as GM, reporting to Mangini

- Bring Rex back as the HC, with the stipulation that he has zero input on personal decisions

Those three moves make the Jets a team to be reckoned with.

I'm pretty sure there would be riots.

[Jetsfan80]

17 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

It's just a damn shame that the coach who sucked at coaching was actually a double-secret-probation mega-GM in hiding, who picked only the good players, until the NFL's secret blood cult collectively conspired against him.

Even Westhoff said he was a good coach and talent evaluator.  He just was a terrible person.  

Rex:  Good coach, terrible talent evaluator, snake. 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

I wish the 2010 team played a better 1st half in PITT

that was a winnable super bowl. 

Won't find anyone on here that disagrees

[jgb]

23 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Even Westhoff said he was a good coach and talent evaluator.  He just was a terrible person.  

Rex:  Good coach, terrible talent evaluator, snake. 

Who cares if they are good at their jobs. If they aren't "good kids," they gotz ta go!

 

[jgb]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I credit Mangini AND Rex for those 2 years, is really my point.  

You're probably right

[doitny]

1 hour ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Yeah, Mangini got a raw deal

Should have been able to finish what he started 

One whiff in Gholston shouldn’t have been enough to send him packing 

Also not his fault Favre’s shoulder came apart in ‘08

Last the time this franchise was 8-3 (!) was courtesy of Mangini

Rex’s most embarrassing act of hubris was moving on from Favre for Mark freaking Sanchez

Team was ready to win and the Jets owned Favre’s rights

Only suckers like Tannenbaum and Rex would think a rookie Sancho was a stronger bet than Favre

Favre went on to have a career year in MIN

Favre retired. if the Jets didnt release him from his contract his 12 mil salary would have counted towards the cap. they had no choice unless you want to be spiteful so he cant sign with another team and pay him that money. 

if you do that then we have less money to pay for FA like Bart Scott and Jim Leonard, Antonio Cromartie, and LT who helped us to 2 AFCCGs.

and Mangini got fired cause the players didnt like him. didnt you read this thread? 

 

[tfine]

In my opinion Mike T was the weak link. He sucked at evaluating talent and was steamrolled by Rex when it came to the draft. I think Mangini had a big hand in our draft picks in 2007-2008. If we had a real talent evaluator as GM the playoff drought would not be as long as it was. We went from drafting good to great players like Revis, Harris, Mangold, Brick, Leon Washington, Dwight Lowery, Kerry Rhodes, Jericho Cotchery to players like Kyle Wilson, Coples, Ducasse…trading Draft capital for Tim Tebow and Holmes….and drafting Sanchez. We could’ve drafted Russell Wilson…but Mike T and Rex said no.


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[GandWFan]

I would have liked to see what would have happened if Westy got the HC position after Mangini.  He expressed interest but was blocked by Mike T.

[T0mShane]

7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

2007 produced Revis and Harris.  How is it more similar to 2008 than 06?

Your entire argument above is thus stupid and invalid. 

Never sure why people want to argue about this stuff. The 2009 Jets were built under Mangini and they were destroyed under Rex. If @Bleedin Green wants to give Tannenbaum all the credit for that, more power to him, but the facts are the facts. Rex destroyed the Jets so completely that they couldn’t even hire a GM, which is how they ended up with Idzik and then had to hire Casserly and Ron Wolf to recruit/beg GM candidates to even interview here after Idzik was whacked. Casserly couldn’t get anyone to take the job, which is how we ended up with his coffee boy Mike Maccagnan. We are literally just now digging out from the wreckage that was Rex Ryan. Kudos to Kim Pegula for recognizing what a piece of sh*t Rex was and throwing him out of the league before he could tank the Bills franchise.

[tfine]

Never sure why people want to argue about this stuff. The 2009 Jets were built under Mangini and they were destroyed under Rex. If [mention=7497]Bleedin Green[/mention] wants to give Tannenbaum all the credit for that, more power to him, but the facts are the facts. Rex destroyed the Jets so completely that they couldn’t even hire a GM, which is how they ended up with Idzik and then had to hire Casserly and Ron Wolf to recruit/beg GM candidates to even interview here after Idzik was whacked. Casserly couldn’t get anyone to take the job, which is how we ended up with his coffee boy Mike Maccagnan. We are literally just now digging out from the wreckage that was Rex Ryan. Kudos to Kim Pegula for recognizing what a piece of sh*t Rex was and throwing him out of the league before he could tank the Bills franchise.

I think coaching wise Rex was good, but think him and Tanny making decisions on personnel was a recipe for disaster. Rex’s issue was he always got enamored with the shiny new object for HIS defense. How many times did we take a DL or CB in the 1st round? When we just basically ignored the OL and offense altogether. The stupid trades for Holmes and Tebow instead of keeping Braylon. Signing and aging Burress and Derrick Mason. Not signing an OC that can develop an NFL offense. Instead we had coaches like Sanjay LOL developing Stephen Hill who by the way was taken ahead of Alshon Jeffery. No one had a clue how to build a team. Hopefully this changes with Joe D




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[Jet Nut]

11 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Eric Mangini win% with the Jets: .479

Rex Ryan win% with the Jets: .479

Eric  Mangini playoff record: 0-1, .000

Rex Ryan play playoff record: 4-2, .667

 

[southparkcpa]

48 minutes ago, tfine said:

 

I think coaching wise Rex was good, but think him and Tanny making decisions on personnel was a recipe for disaster. Rex’s issue was he always got enamored with the shiny new object for HIS defense. How many times did we take a DL or CB in the 1st round? When we just basically ignored the OL and offense altogether. The stupid trades for Holmes and Tebow instead of keeping Braylon. Signing and aging Burress and Derrick Mason. Not signing an OC that can develop an NFL offense. Instead we had coaches like Sanjay LOL developing Stephen Hill who by the way was taken ahead of Alshon Jeffery. No one had a clue how to build a team. Hopefully this changes with Joe D




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A young QB just took us almost to a SB and we thank him by drafting Kyle fukkin Wilson and then Vlad.   GRONK as a jet would have tremendously helped our young QB.   But as you stated, REX wanted defense 1.   

[jgb]

1 hour ago, southparkcpa said:

A young QB just took us almost to a SB and we thank him by drafting Kyle fukkin Wilson and then Vlad.   GRONK as a jet would have tremendously helped our young QB.   But as you stated, REX wanted defense 1.   

If Rex is such a defensive genius, his success shouldn't require 80% of the team's draft capital by value be poured into the defense.

[Matt39]

10 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

It's just a damn shame that the coach who sucked at coaching was actually a double-secret-probation mega-GM in hiding, who picked only the good players, until the NFL's secret blood cult collectively conspired against him.

He sucked with people. He’d be the perfect work from home coach now.

[chirorob]

I love Westy's mentality. 

No excuses.   Just, Figure it Out.   Some good life lessons there.

[NIGHT STALKER]

A couple of things.  He was a very good special teams coach, but that's what all he was going to be.  Never got a HCing gig in all the time he was a ST coach for whatever reason...probably didn't have the type personality needed outside the lines.  And Pennington may not have been able to throw the ball across the street in his opinion, but he did win an AFC East title.

[tfine]

A young QB just took us almost to a SB and we thank him by drafting Kyle fukkin Wilson and then Vlad.   GRONK as a jet would have tremendously helped our young QB.   But as you stated, REX wanted defense 1.   

Agreed. To me that was the start of the downfall. Not just Gronk….Emmanuel Sanders, Jimmy Graham, Eric Decker either of those picks would’ve tremendously helped. The thought of Kyle Wilson and Ducasse were picked over these players makes my blood boil. Even Antonio Brown. Why the **** would you take Kyle “the flag” Wilson when you have Revis AND Cro.


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[jgb]

1 hour ago, chirorob said:

I love Westy's mentality. 

No excuses.   Just, Figure it Out.   Some good life lessons there.

Lessons from a bygone era. “Man up” has been replaced by “How can be expected to with all the obstacles in my way?”

[jgb]

44 minutes ago, tfine said:

 

Agreed. To me that was the start of the downfall. Not just Gronk….Emmanuel Sanders, Jimmy Graham, Eric Decker either of those picks would’ve tremendously helped. The thought of Kyle Wilson and Ducasse were picked over these players makes my blood boil. Even Antonio Brown. Why the **** would you take Kyle “the flag” Wilson when you have Revis AND Cro.


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You could build a team of HOFers from the guys every GM in the league has passed on in favor of a bust.

But your point is valid. Jets suck at drafting and that has been proven empirically. High hopes JD’s 2022 class starts to rewrite that sad history. 

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Eric  Mangini playoff record: 0-1, .000

Rex Ryan play playoff record: 4-2, .667

 

Rex Ryan franchises destabilized:  2

Eric Mangini:  0

[Jetsfan80]

5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Never sure why people want to argue about this stuff. 

I remember some time back Dom trying to argue, in all seriousness, that the Jets drafts in 2006-08 were very similar to the ones from 2009-2012.  

@Joe W. Namath talks all the time about Jets fans being "diseased".  The real disease is the Rex Ryan hero worship that still exists on JN.  Meanwhile their hero couldn't even get an interview at the U of Miami, his reputation is so bad.  

2009 & 2010 were indeed fun, but f**k Rex.  

[tfine]

I remember some time back Dom trying to argue, in all seriousness, that the Jets drafts in 2006-08 were very similar to the ones from 2009-2012.  
[mention=28615]Joe W. Namath[/mention] talks all the time about Jets fans being "diseased".  The real disease is the Rex Ryan hero worship that still exists on JN.  Meanwhile their hero couldn't even get an interview at the U of Miami, his reputation is so bad.  
2009 & 2010 were indeed fun, but f**k Rex.  

Say what you want about Rex, but the guy loved being the coach of the Jets. You have to give him a little credit for trying hard to change the losing stigma of the team, but he went about it the wrong way and in the end we just ended up being a hated bunch of frauds. I do think his heart was in the right place in terms of trying to change the losing culture. He came so close to doing that until his ego got in the way.





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[jgb]

48 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Rex Ryan franchises destabilized:  2

Eric Mangini:  0

Yeah but Rex did it with style and quotes on Hard Knocks that will live forever

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, tfine said:

 

Say what you want about Rex, but the guy loved being the coach of the Jets. You have to give him a little credit for trying hard to change the losing stigma of the team, but he went about it the wrong way and in the end we just ended up being a hated bunch of frauds. I do think his heart was in the right place in terms of trying to change the losing culture. He came so close to doing that until his ego got in the way.





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I actually agree. We might just need to accept we don’t deserve better and Rex and the Jets belong together.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Lessons from a bygone era. “Man up” has been replaced by “How can be expected to with all the obstacles in my way?”

I mean, we’re talking about a guy who earned millions of dollars to get scrubs to line up and cover kicks for an hour a day for six months a year.