Jump to content

Figure It Out - Mike Westhoff


GandWFan
 Share

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I mean, we’re talking about a guy who earned millions of dollars to get scrubs to line up and cover kicks for an hour a day for six months a year. 

Which makes him twice the man of anyone born after 1994 — soldiers and cage fighters aside.

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually agree. We might just need to accept we don’t deserve better and Rex and the Jets belong together.


I wasn’t trying to make a case that we need Rex back. Trust me I don’t, he’s a big part along with tanny on why we haven’t made the playoffs is a while and we are still paying the price for their incompetence personnel wise, I am just saying he came here with good intentions and almost pulled it off.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, NIGHT STALKER said:

A couple of things.  He was a very good special teams coach, but that's what all he was going to be.  Never got a HCing gig in all the time he was a ST coach for whatever reason...probably didn't have the type personality needed outside the lines.  And Pennington may not have been able to throw the ball across the street in his opinion, but he did win an AFC East title.

He actually won 2 AFCE division championships: 2002 & 2008

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/4/2022 at 9:10 AM, tfine said:

 


I think coaching wise Rex was good, but think him and Tanny making decisions on personnel was a recipe for disaster. Rex’s issue was he always got enamored with the shiny new object for HIS defense. How many times did we take a DL or CB in the 1st round? When we just basically ignored the OL and offense altogether. The stupid trades for Holmes and Tebow instead of keeping Braylon. Signing and aging Burress and Derrick Mason. Not signing an OC that can develop an NFL offense. Instead we had coaches like Sanjay LOL developing Stephen Hill who by the way was taken ahead of Alshon Jeffery. No one had a clue how to build a team. Hopefully this changes with Joe D




Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

The trade for Holmes was one I'd make any/every year the team needed a WR. The Holmes extension was what sucked, not the acquisition. Dirt cheap super bowl MVP coming off a 1200-yard season, and the team had a young QB throwing to a thin WR corps with no pipeline from prior drafts. Cotchery was pretty good but also limited & who else was there coming up at the position? Stuckey, Brad Smith, Marcus Henry, Harry Williams... as the prior regime essentially drafted no WRs and the only downfield target drafted was when they once traded up for Dustin Keller instead of staying pat and taking Jordy Nelson in our original slot (or just moving up for Nelson, frankly).

So Tannenabum made trades for instant starters Edwards and Holmes in successive seasons without using a high draft pick. If Sanchez was a better QB it might've all worked; they did come pretty close. The Jets D was excellent, but they needed to be nearly the '00 Ravens to go all the way with that stiff at QB; hard enough without a serious edge rusher (Tangini having thrown away the last elite one the team had, to draft a center they didn't then need; however much every one of us is/was a huge Mangold fan - myself included -the truth is Abraham was the more unique game-changer). 

They basically let it be known that Ryan got to make 1 pick per year, and I think typically it was a day 3 pick at that (guys like Conner, Boyd, etc.). Hill was all Tannenbaum & Jets scouts. IIRC Ryan more or less said publicly it's not a pick he'd have made (it's debatable he'd advocate the team highly drafting any WR ever; and not that there's any evidence Ryan would have drafted a stud himself, but it was a pretty high pick: 6 slots higher still after Tannenbaum traded a couple more day 3 picks to move up for him).

Mason was a disaster, but it was to fill a hole after the team gave Cotchery the FA status he'd been demanding all offseason; Cotchery didn't want out because Mason was here; it was the other way around. Cotchery was dissatisfied with being the team's WR3 (and its 4th downfield target when you also count Keller). So the team gave him his release, which was kind of classy in truth. He then signed with Pittsburgh to be their WR5 for less money after a week of no one else making him the starter offer he felt he deserved. It's been a while but I think he interviewed with Baltimore and/or some other AFC team but they passed on him, too. Incidentally, Cotchery was Pittsburgh's late consolation prize after Burress chose the Jets instead of them, so it's not like no one else but the Jets wanted to sign post-incarceration Plaxico. Pittsburgh even signed him the year after his lone Jets season.

There's also a roster-building issue that's easy to forget about a decade-plus later, which is that the way the rules were set up, the Jets couldn't just sign any FA they wanted whenever they wanted, even if they could fit him under the cap. As a top-4 team they had to lose a FA to sign a FA. The league doesn't do that anymore, but the Jets were subject to this rule for two offseasons in a row after making back to back AFCCGs.

That doesn't at all undo drafting the likes of Coples, Hill, Ellis, Milliner, Pryor, Amaro, etc. -- but it's easier to add a team's veteran pieces at the start of an unlimited spending spree than it is when a lot of the cap room is used up, and the prior draft picks were in need of expensive veteran contracts, and the team's further prohibited from signing others' UFAs. 

A real turning point (for the worse) was Tannenbaum extending Sanchez, claiming he thought he was getting in on an early extension that'd look smart a year or two later, and it wasn't exactly a universally-beloved move in the organization at the time. Instead that led to the facepalm offseason of trading for Tebow (Tannenbaum getting humiliated in the process by not reading the contract), and very possibly drafting R.Wilson in the middle of round 2 instead of trading up to take Stephen Hill. Butterfly effect of stupid begetting stupid. That awful extension, more than anything else, is the reason he got deservedly fired as the GM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The trade for Holmes was one I'd make any/every year the team needed a WR. The Holmes extension was what sucked, not the acquisition. Dirt cheap super bowl MVP coming off a 1200-yard season, and the team had a young QB throwing to a thin WR corps with no pipeline from prior drafts. Cotchery was pretty good but also limited & who else was there coming up at the position? Stuckey, Brad Smith, Marcus Henry, Harry Williams... as the prior regime essentially drafted no WRs and the only downfield target drafted was when they once traded up for Dustin Keller instead of staying pat and taking Jordy Nelson in our original slot (or just moving up for Nelson, frankly).

So Tannenabum made trades for instant starters Edwards and Holmes in successive seasons without using a high draft pick. If Sanchez was a better QB it might've all worked; they did come pretty close. The Jets D was excellent, but they needed to be nearly the '00 Ravens to go all the way with that stiff at QB; hard enough without a serious edge rusher (Tangini having thrown away the last elite one the team had, to draft a center they didn't then need; however much every one of us is/was a huge Mangold fan - myself included -the truth is Abraham was the more unique game-changer). 

They basically let it be known that Ryan got to make 1 pick per year, and I think typically it was a day 3 pick at that (guys like Conner, Boyd, etc.). Hill was all Tannenbaum & Jets scouts. IIRC Ryan more or less said publicly it's not a pick he'd have made (it's debatable he'd advocate the team highly drafting any WR ever; and not that there's any evidence Ryan would have drafted a stud himself, but it was a pretty high pick: 6 slots higher still after Tannenbaum traded a couple more day 3 picks to move up for him).

Mason was a disaster, but it was to fill a hole after the team gave Cotchery the FA status he'd been demanding all offseason; Cotchery didn't want out because Mason was here; it was the other way around. Cotchery was dissatisfied with being the team's WR3 (and its 4th downfield target when you also count Keller). So the team gave him his release, which was kind of classy in truth. He then signed with Pittsburgh to be their WR5 for less money after a week of no one else making him the starter offer he felt he deserved. It's been a while but I think he interviewed with Baltimore and/or some other AFC team but they passed on him, too. Incidentally, Cotchery was Pittsburgh's late consolation prize after Burress chose the Jets instead of them, so it's not like no one else but the Jets wanted to sign post-incarceration Plaxico. Pittsburgh even signed him the year after his lone Jets season.

There's also a roster-building issue that's easy to forget about a decade-plus later, which is that the way the rules were set up, the Jets couldn't just sign any FA they wanted whenever they wanted, even if they could fit him under the cap. As a top-4 team they had to lose a FA to sign a FA. The league doesn't do that anymore, but the Jets were subject to this rule for two offseasons in a row after making back to back AFCCGs.

That doesn't at all undo drafting the likes of Coples, Hill, Ellis, Milliner, Pryor, Amaro, etc. -- but it's easier to add a team's veteran pieces at the start of an unlimited spending spree than it is when a lot of the cap room is used up, and the prior draft picks were in need of expensive veteran contracts, and the team's further prohibited from signing others' UFAs. 

A real turning point (for the worse) was Tannenbaum extending Sanchez, claiming he thought he was getting in on an early extension that'd look smart a year or two later, and it wasn't exactly a universally-beloved move in the organization at the time. Instead that led to the facepalm offseason of trading for Tebow (Tannenbaum getting humiliated in the process by not reading the contract), and very possibly drafting R.Wilson in the middle of round 2 instead of trading up to take Stephen Hill. Butterfly effect of stupid begetting stupid. That awful extension, more than anything else, is the reason he got deservedly fired as the GM.

I still believe that the deal was that Rex got to pick the 1st rd pick every year of his tenure.  All defense (and terrible)  except for Sanchez, with whom he was smitten after watching him throw some balls at some So Cal high school field with Tanny. We know for a fact that Coples and, IIRC either Pryor or Wilson or both, were 100% Rex picks.  It was reported that promised Coples he would be the pick if still on the board, and he was.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/4/2022 at 12:45 AM, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Yeah, Mangini got a raw deal

Should have been able to finish what he started 

One whiff in Gholston shouldn’t have been enough to send him packing 

Also not his fault Favre’s shoulder came apart in ‘08

Last the time this franchise was 8-3 (!) was courtesy of Mangini

Rex’s most embarrassing act of hubris was moving on from Favre for Mark freaking Sanchez

Team was ready to win and the Jets owned Favre’s rights

Only suckers like Tannenbaum and Rex would think a rookie Sancho was a stronger bet than Favre

Favre went on to have a career year in MIN

Favre never wanted to play for the Jets.  He used the Jets to get out of GB to Minnesota.  Favre retired after the 2008 season (again!) and told the Jets he did not want to play for them.  There was no way he was staying.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Dcat said:

I still believe that the deal was that Rex got to pick the 1st rd pick every year of his tenure.  All defense (and terrible)  except for Sanchez, with whom he was smitten after watching him throw some balls at some So Cal high school field with Tanny. We know for a fact that Coples and, IIRC either Pryor or Wilson or both, were 100% Rex picks.  It was reported that promised Coples he would be the pick if still on the board, and he was.  

Those aren’t facts so much as your suspicions, but believing it to be so doesn’t make it so.

It’s the norm for HCs and coordinators to have influence/input into the team’s draft picks (which is why Gase went apeshit to get the GM fired when Maccagnan wasn’t making him any part of the process), but that doesn’t therefore mean he was in charge of the pick. I think you’re making the results fit the reason for the results. That influence or input doesn’t equate to control over the pick, though. Coples may have been a top 5 player the prior year, wasn’t then a reach pick at all in the teens, and played an extreme need position. 

Ryan had a big yapper and was an egomaniac with insecurity issues. His telling a player he’s the Jets’ guy (if he’s still there when the Jets pick), or making boastful comments about “he’s my guy” after the pick (as his way of saying “I’m happy with the pick”), doesn’t therefore mean he was in charge of the pick. He also did that with another player (Austin) before the Jets drafted Milliner There’s no way a new GM (Idzik), who wanted to pick his own HC and who clearly didn’t see eye to eye with the incumbent, is giving that HC full control of any first round selection that determines his own fate as GM.

I’m even less convinced what he truly wanted, never his first season here, was to trade any defensive starters and more to move up to take a rookie QB who would then (under that older CBA) would get paid like a star veteran upon getting selected. Getting a tattoo of his Jersey on his wife’s likeness later didn’t make it so. Neither does liking the player at a pro day, as it’s unlikely he didn’t like many players’ pro days. Tannenbaum made the trade and the pick (and that awful extension). I doubt Ryan got any picks himself in his first ever draft as HC, let alone that he’d start steering an all-offense draft outright.

His one pick in the Pryor draft was clearly Boyd, and that was no secret. That Pryor was a pick he approved of didn’t therefore mean he had control of it. That one I think Idzik was taking a safety and, being split on which of two, may have put it to Ryan to be a tie breaker between Pryor and Clinton-Dix, but that doesn’t nearly equate to the HC being in charge of the pick. He may have preferred a different position player outright (for better or for worse) but until they’re out if the league they rarely mention who they really wanted (once that player is on another team), as that’d probably be considered tampering. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

His one pick in the Pryor draft was clearly Boyd, and that was no secret. That Pryor was a pick he approved of didn’t therefore mean he had control of

You’re talking about a man who hijacked the draft process and pissed off every scout in the building to burn a draft pick on Sanchez’s buddy Scotty McKnight. It’s covered pretty well in Collision Low Crossers: Rex was an absolute menace during the buildup to the draft, would big-balls beta-fish Tannenbaum (and subsequently Idzik), and work to get “his” (and only his) guys rammed through. Granted, Rex was probably more qualified to pick players than Tannenbaum, but Rex also liked to surround himself with anti-establishment thugs who would eventually, predictably, burn the building to the ground. Trading for Santonio Holmes was a great idea until he steamrolled the promising, young QB to the point where they had to throw Holmes out of the huddle during a game, and then having to cut Derrick Mason mid-season because he was a me-first psychopath. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Those aren’t facts so much as your suspicions, but believing it to be so doesn’t make it so.

It’s the norm for HCs and coordinators to have influence/input into the team’s draft picks (which is why Gase went apesh*t to get the GM fired when Maccagnan wasn’t making him any part of the process), but that doesn’t therefore mean he was in charge of the pick. I think you’re making the results fit the reason for the results. That influence or input doesn’t equate to control over the pick, though. Coples may have been a top 5 player the prior year, wasn’t then a reach pick at all in the teens, and played an extreme need position. 

Ryan had a big yapper and was an egomaniac with insecurity issues. His telling a player he’s the Jets’ guy (if he’s still there when the Jets pick), or making boastful comments about “he’s my guy” after the pick (as his way of saying “I’m happy with the pick”), doesn’t therefore mean he was in charge of the pick. He also did that with another player (Austin) before the Jets drafted Milliner There’s no way a new GM (Idzik), who wanted to pick his own HC and who clearly didn’t see eye to eye with the incumbent, is giving that HC full control of any first round selection that determines his own fate as GM.

I’m even less convinced what he truly wanted, never his first season here, was to trade any defensive starters and more to move up to take a rookie QB who would then (under that older CBA) would get paid like a star veteran upon getting selected. Getting a tattoo of his Jersey on his wife’s likeness later didn’t make it so. Neither does liking the player at a pro day, as it’s unlikely he didn’t like many players’ pro days. Tannenbaum made the trade and the pick (and that awful extension). I doubt Ryan got any picks himself in his first ever draft as HC, let alone that he’d start steering an all-offense draft outright.

His one pick in the Pryor draft was clearly Boyd, and that was no secret. That Pryor was a pick he approved of didn’t therefore mean he had control of it. That one I think Idzik was taking a safety and, being split on which of two, may have put it to Ryan to be a tie breaker between Pryor and Clinton-Dix, but that doesn’t nearly equate to the HC being in charge of the pick. He may have preferred a different position player outright (for better or for worse) but until they’re out if the league they rarely mention who they really wanted (once that player is on another team), as that’d probably be considered tampering. 

Not buying it.  There is no way, IMO, that this team drafts all defense in rd 1 under Rex but for the Sanchez acquisition which we know was a Rex/Tanny joint play.  Res ipsa loquitur.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, T0mShane said:

You’re talking about a man who hijacked the draft process and pissed off every scout in the building to burn a draft pick on Sanchez’s buddy Scotty McKnight. It’s covered pretty well in Collision Low Crossers: Rex was an absolute menace during the buildup to the draft, would big-balls beta-fish Tannenbaum (and subsequently Idzik), and work to get “his” (and only his) guys rammed through. Granted, Rex was probably more qualified to pick players than Tannenbaum, but Rex also liked to surround himself with anti-establishment thugs who would eventually, predictably, burn the building to the ground. Trading for Santonio Holmes was a great idea until he steamrolled the promising, young QB to the point where they had to throw Holmes out of the huddle during a game, and then having to cut Derrick Mason mid-season because he was a me-first psychopath. 

The guy who's fired by him spoke of him solely in unflattering terms. Color me shocked. 

Holmes was fine when he was playing for a contract. He was King Douchebag after getting it. That's on the GM who saw fit to draft 1 WR in the first 4 rounds during his whole tenure, who was a monstrous flop himself (Hill). 

Sanchez sucked. For all the horribleness thrown his way he also walked into a superbowl contender with the game's top OL, ground game, and defense. Within 12 months he had two young, star WRs in his huddle (dipshits that they were themselves). So "steamrolled" or not, he was an imbecile who was never going to be a consistently good QB. He could/should still be playing if it was otherwise. Perhaps the best testament to Ryan is he took that scrub to two AFCCGs, kicking and screaming and (allegedly) statutory raping and (not-allegedly) wiping boogers on Mark Brunell. 

For all Rex's faults, and there certainly were plenty, you'll have to grudgingly admit you're also waiting for Saleh to prove he's half the coach Ryan was. Hopefully he's twice as good and this HC merry-go-round can stop.

  • Upvote 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i guess you can say tanny signed players who could play and start but i also think some of those players became (or were) serious cancers.  plax, holmes, mason were all bad guys.  when tanny got launched idzik doubled down on bad guys by drafting the hitman and geno. when sanchez went down and geno got the team to 8-8 it became plenty clear that sanchez was gone.  i suppose it's possible that geno could've lead the team, after getting punched it was clear he wasn't going to start over fitzy but then, when fitzy held out, geno was able to take over the team.  when fitz finally signed the locker room was a mess.  the jets were plenty hatable in those seasons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The guy who fired him spoke of him solely in unflattering terms. Color me shocked. 

Holmes was fine when he was playing for a contract. He was King Douchebag after getting it. That's on the GM who saw fit to draft 1 WR in the first 4 rounds during his whole tenure, who was a monstrous flop himself (Hill). 

Sanchez sucked. For all the horribleness thrown his way he also walked into a superbowl contender with the game's top OL, ground game, and defense. Within 12 months he had two young, star WRs in his huddle (dipsh*ts that they were themselves). So "steamrolled" or not, he was an imbecile who was never going to be a consistently good QB. He could/should still be playing if it was otherwise. Perhaps the best testament to Ryan is he took that scrub to two AFCCGs, kicking and screaming and (allegedly) statutory raping and (not-allegedly) wiping boogers on Mark Brunell. 

For all Rex's faults, and there certainly were plenty, you'll have to grudgingly admit you're also waiting for Saleh to prove he's half the coach Ryan was. Hopefully he's twice as good and this HC merry-go-round can stop.

I’m torn because I hate all the people you mentioned except for Sanchez whom I just kinda feel bad for despite his undeserved millions and boriqua good looks. As always, love your posts. And you. ❤️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Dcat said:

Not buying it.  There is no way, IMO, that this team drafts all defense in rd 1 under Rex but for the Sanchez acquisition which we know was a Rex/Tanny joint play.  Res ipsa loquitur.

Why not? It was 4 years out of 5, not 44 years out of 45, and through almost all of it believed they were pretty well set on the OL and had a good but not great young pass-catching TE on his rookie deal. Then the main reason they kept drafting defense instead of WR is they kept having their biggest hole elsewhere after acquiring young, veteran WRs. D was a bigger immediate need.

When the subset is that small, you look at the situation each year in April:

2014

  • Ryan's final season was also the main year there was even much of a decision to make, in terms of taking D over an offensive skill position (taking Pryor over Cooks), since the team didn't need an OL starter.
  • Judging from Ryan's post-draft comments (iirc something like "given the choice between safeties, I take the one who hits like a truck") at the time it looked like Idzik wanted - or felt the value there was - a safety and Ryan was merely allowed to put his thumb on the scale to choose between the two rated in that area, to take over for Antonio Allen to complement FS Landry. That he chose poorly (Pryor over Clinton Dix) sucked, but being a tie-breaker isn't the same as running the draft.
  • The "Rex pick" was in round 6: Tajh Boyd, who QB'd Clemson, where Ryan's son was his teammate as a freshman WR.
  • After the draft Ryan even blustered about which one was his pick: Boyd. Which one was his pick, not which ones, nor which one was one of his picks.

2013

  • The plan was to draft a WR at #9 but Ryan and his big mouth let that tidbit be known, leading the Rams to specifically leapfrog the Jets. Just as well, seeing how said WR was Tavon Austin, but bust that he was his career is HOF-caliber compared to Milliner's.
  • After Milliner the first skill position player on offense was taken almost 10 slots later. There weren't any other WRs expected to be drafted in round 1 outright, let alone in the top half of round 1. Wish it was so in hindsight, but Andre Hopkins was not considered a #9 to #13 overall draft pick at the time, and teams weren't getting chart value for trading down in a weak upper-1st round.
  • I believe the Ryan pick was Tommy Bohanon, a last-round FB who benched almost 40 reps at the combine and never did much as a pro.

2012 

  • The Jets were still desperate for an edge rusher and that was the class's meat position in the middle of round 1. iirc Ryan opened his big yapper that year, too, as the team was (allegedly) focused in on Irvin. Now Seattle may have drafted Irvin anyway, since it's not like someone else wouldn't have taken him before Seattle's next pick, but it's something I remembered. Irvin didn't live up to his hype either, though he did so more than Coples.
  • The WRs in that 1st round just weren't top prospects. We picked at #16. Kendall Wright went #20 (smaller receiver with one NFL season >715 yards and was out of football before hitting 30). AJ Jenkins went #30 and was an even bigger bust than Coples.
  • What other positions on offense at #16? Riley Rieff at #23? Ferguson was locked in at LT and teams don't draft LT-body RTs over edge rushers, and the rest of the starting line was fine (Ferguson, Slauson, Mangold, Moore). TBH Howard was a terrific pickup in hindsight (dirt cheap and started 32 straight games before Oakland opened up their wallets to sign him away as a FA in 2014).

2011

  • We picked way down at #30 and drafted a pro bowler + 7 yr starter for the DL to swap in for Shaun Ellis, whom they'd already just let go in FA (correctly, I might add). Taking a 3-4 DE was a no-brainer for that team at that time, as value matched the pick slot, no matter who was HC.
  • BTW, noting Sanchez was locked in as the starter, here are the picks after Mo: DE, T (bust), DB, DB, QB, QB, DE, RB (bust), LB, LB, DT, LB. The next non-defense, non-QB, non-bust off the board was in the middle of the following round (Kyle Rudolph).
  • So the Jets should've drafted a bust RT in round 1 or reached for a TE they didn't need, bypass filling a gaping hole on D, for the sake of drafting offense to convince you personally that Ryan wasn't the official team drafter? Come on. 

2010

  • The wondrous pick that was Kyle Wilson, taken with our late 1st rounder. Well, they had just gotten picked apart by Manning in the 2nd half of the AFCCG, and Revis was already holding out for a $16MM/year contract.
  • I can wish they added a better CB than Wilson and still say the position was an obvious one for a GM to target here, with or without Ryan as the HC.

2009

  • Not one player on defense taken. Yet I'm supposed to believe Ryan was apparently running this draft, outmuscling the GM who hired him, so a HC who wanted a ground & pound ball-control offense could start a rookie QB. It makes no sense. A HC like Ryan would've been happier with a game-managing QB like Pennington. 
  • Never mind the only way the Sanchez pick gets made is the GM had to make a huge trade with his buddy Mangini's new team. Ryan had no such connection to the Browns. The idea that Ryan forced all this himself, as a first-year HC, doesn't even pass the sniff test. 
  • The team had no QB other than Clemens after Favre (yet again) retired. He did so right after the Super Bowl, citing the arm injury as the reason.
  • The FA QBs that year were
    • Warner (re-signed with Arizona);
    • Fitzpatrick (re-signed with Buffalo);
    • Collins (re-signed with Tennessee);
    • Matt Cassell (franchise tagged by NE, then traded to KC);
    • Jeff Garcia (never took another snap after 2008)
    • Backups Chris Simms (;)), David Carr, Damon Huard, Dan Orlovsky, JT O'Sullivan, and Brian St. Pierre. 

Funny thing is the Ryan picks seemed to be all on offense: Bohanon, Boyd, Conner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Why not? It was 4 years out of 5, not 44 years out of 45, and through almost all of it believed they were pretty well set on the OL and had a good but not great young pass-catching TE on his rookie deal. Then the main reason they kept drafting defense instead of WR is they kept having their biggest hole elsewhere after acquiring young, veteran WRs. D was a bigger immediate need.

When the subset is that small, you look at the situation each year in April:

2014

  • Ryan's final season was also the main year there was even much of a decision to make, in terms of taking D over an offensive skill position (taking Pryor over Cooks), since the team didn't need an OL starter.
  • Judging from Ryan's post-draft comments (iirc something like "given the choice between safeties, I take the one who hits like a truck") at the time it looked like Idzik wanted - or felt the value there was - a safety and Ryan was merely allowed to put his thumb on the scale to choose between the two rated in that area, to take over for Antonio Allen to complement FS Landry. That he chose poorly (Pryor over Clinton Dix) sucked, but being a tie-breaker isn't the same as running the draft.
  • The "Rex pick" was in round 6: Tajh Boyd, who QB'd Clemson, where Ryan's son was his teammate as a freshman WR.
  • After the draft Ryan even blustered about which one was his pick: Boyd. Which one was his pick, not which ones, nor which one was one of his picks.

2013

  • The plan was to draft a WR at #9 but Ryan and his big mouth let that tidbit be known, leading the Rams to specifically leapfrog the Jets. Just as well, seeing how said WR was Tavon Austin, but bust that he was his career is HOF-caliber compared to Milliner's.
  • After Milliner the first skill position player on offense was taken almost 10 slots later. There weren't any other WRs expected to be drafted in round 1 outright, let alone in the top half of round 1. Wish it was so in hindsight, but Andre Hopkins was not considered a #9 to #13 overall draft pick at the time, and teams weren't getting chart value for trading down in a weak upper-1st round.
  • I believe the Ryan pick was Tommy Bohanon, a last-round FB who benched almost 40 reps at the combine and never did much as a pro.

2012 

  • The Jets were still desperate for an edge rusher and that was the class's meat position in the middle of round 1. iirc Ryan opened his big yapper that year, too, as the team was (allegedly) focused in on Irvin. Now Seattle may have drafted Irvin anyway, since it's not like someone else wouldn't have taken him before Seattle's next pick, but it's something I remembered. Irvin didn't live up to his hype either, though he did so more than Coples.
  • The WRs in that 1st round just weren't top prospects. We picked at #16. Kendall Wright went #20 (smaller receiver with one NFL season >715 yards and was out of football before hitting 30). AJ Jenkins went #30 and was an even bigger bust than Coples.
  • What other positions on offense at #16? Riley Rieff at #23? Ferguson was locked in at LT and teams don't draft LT-body RTs over edge rushers, and the rest of the starting line was fine (Ferguson, Slauson, Mangold, Moore). TBH Howard was a terrific pickup in hindsight (dirt cheap and started 32 straight games before Oakland opened up their wallets to sign him away as a FA in 2014).

2011

  • We picked way down at #30 and drafted a pro bowler + 7 yr starter for the DL to swap in for Shaun Ellis, whom they'd already just let go in FA (correctly, I might add). Taking a 3-4 DE was a no-brainer for that team at that time, as value matched the pick slot, no matter who was HC.
  • BTW, noting Sanchez was locked in as the starter, here are the picks after Mo: DE, T (bust), DB, DB, QB, QB, DE, RB (bust), LB, LB, DT, LB. The next non-defense, non-QB, non-bust off the board was in the middle of the following round (Kyle Rudolph).
  • So the Jets should've drafted a bust RT in round 1 or reached for a TE they didn't need, bypass filling a gaping hole on D, for the sake of drafting offense to convince you personally that Ryan wasn't the official team drafter? Come on. 

2010

  • The wondrous pick that was Kyle Wilson, taken with our late 1st rounder. Well, they had just gotten picked apart by Manning in the 2nd half of the AFCCG, and Revis was already holding out for a $16MM/year contract.
  • I can wish they added a better CB than Wilson and still say the position was an obvious one for a GM to target here, with or without Ryan as the HC.

2009

  • Not one player on defense taken. Yet I'm supposed to believe Ryan was apparently running this draft, outmuscling the GM who hired him, so a HC who wanted a ground & pound ball-control offense could start a rookie QB. It makes no sense. A HC like Ryan would've been happier with a game-managing QB like Pennington. 
  • Never mind the only way the Sanchez pick gets made is the GM had to make a huge trade with his buddy Mangini's new team. Ryan had no such connection to the Browns. The idea that Ryan forced all this himself, as a first-year HC, doesn't even pass the sniff test. 
  • The team had no QB other than Clemens after Favre (yet again) retired. He did so right after the Super Bowl, citing the arm injury as the reason.
  • The FA QBs that year were
    • Warner (re-signed with Arizona);
    • Fitzpatrick (re-signed with Buffalo);
    • Collins (re-signed with Tennessee);
    • Matt Cassell (franchise tagged by NE, then traded to KC);
    • Jeff Garcia (never took another snap after 2008)
    • Backups Chris Simms (;)), David Carr, Damon Huard, Dan Orlovsky, JT O'Sullivan, and Brian St. Pierre. 

Funny thing is the Ryan picks seemed to be all on offense: Bohanon, Boyd, Conner.

I disagree wholeheartedly. Ryan was given 1st rd privileges that Tanny-Idsuk so we'll never know. Those defensive picks were atrocious.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

I’m torn because I hate all the people you mentioned except for Sanchez whom I just kinda feel bad for despite his undeserved millions and boriqua good looks. As always, love your posts. And you. ❤️

Right back at you ;), except for your excepting hatred for Sanchez despite his well-publicized shtupping of a child when he was a cutie-pie celebrity in Gotham in his mid-20s who could've had anyone. But he had to stick his thing in a child who wasn't old enough for consent. Good guy though, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Dcat said:

I disagree wholeheartedly. Ryan was given 1st rd privileges that Tanny-Idsuk so we'll never know. Those defensive picks were atrocious.  

So you just believe what you want to believe, despite team situations and testimony to the contrary. Okey dokey, that's cool. 

Mrs. Sperm would have you know I've been far more stubborn on many occasion, so it's all good. 👍

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So you just believe what you want to believe, despite team situations and testimony to the contrary. Okey dokey, that's cool. 

Mrs. Sperm would have you know I've been far more stubborn on many occasion, so it's all good. 👍

Not one thing in the treatise I read changed my mind, especiallty the 80% of it that was completely irrelevant..  Look, our pussy of an owner succumbed to Rex in more ways than just the draft powers he gave him, and it f'ckd we fans over for more than a decade.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Not one thing in the treatise I read changed my mind, especiallty the 80% of it that was completely irrelevant..  Look, our pussy of an owner succumbed to Rex in more ways than just the draft powers he gave him, and it f'ckd we fans over for more than a decade.

There's been no talk, even from those who had an axe to grind (e.g. Pettine) & weren't shy about it - in writing - said Ryan ran the draft. Let alone the idea that Woody forced his GM to take someone or not take someone because of Rex lobbying to make it so.

But like I said, you go ahead and believe what you will. I think Ryan had plenty of faults enough without making things up to let Tannenbaum off the hook, but it matters not. Both were fired for just cause. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/5/2022 at 1:54 PM, Sperm Edwards said:

The trade for Holmes was one I'd make any/every year the team needed a WR. The Holmes extension was what sucked, not the acquisition. Dirt cheap super bowl MVP coming off a 1200-yard season, and the team had a young QB throwing to a thin WR corps with no pipeline from prior drafts. Cotchery was pretty good but also limited & who else was there coming up at the position? Stuckey, Brad Smith, Marcus Henry, Harry Williams... as the prior regime essentially drafted no WRs and the only downfield target drafted was when they once traded up for Dustin Keller instead of staying pat and taking Jordy Nelson in our original slot (or just moving up for Nelson, frankly).

So Tannenabum made trades for instant starters Edwards and Holmes in successive seasons without using a high draft pick. If Sanchez was a better QB it might've all worked; they did come pretty close. The Jets D was excellent, but they needed to be nearly the '00 Ravens to go all the way with that stiff at QB; hard enough without a serious edge rusher (Tangini having thrown away the last elite one the team had, to draft a center they didn't then need; however much every one of us is/was a huge Mangold fan - myself included -the truth is Abraham was the more unique game-changer). 

They basically let it be known that Ryan got to make 1 pick per year, and I think typically it was a day 3 pick at that (guys like Conner, Boyd, etc.). Hill was all Tannenbaum & Jets scouts. IIRC Ryan more or less said publicly it's not a pick he'd have made (it's debatable he'd advocate the team highly drafting any WR ever; and not that there's any evidence Ryan would have drafted a stud himself, but it was a pretty high pick: 6 slots higher still after Tannenbaum traded a couple more day 3 picks to move up for him).

Mason was a disaster, but it was to fill a hole after the team gave Cotchery the FA status he'd been demanding all offseason; Cotchery didn't want out because Mason was here; it was the other way around. Cotchery was dissatisfied with being the team's WR3 (and its 4th downfield target when you also count Keller). So the team gave him his release, which was kind of classy in truth. He then signed with Pittsburgh to be their WR5 for less money after a week of no one else making him the starter offer he felt he deserved. It's been a while but I think he interviewed with Baltimore and/or some other AFC team but they passed on him, too. Incidentally, Cotchery was Pittsburgh's late consolation prize after Burress chose the Jets instead of them, so it's not like no one else but the Jets wanted to sign post-incarceration Plaxico. Pittsburgh even signed him the year after his lone Jets season.

There's also a roster-building issue that's easy to forget about a decade-plus later, which is that the way the rules were set up, the Jets couldn't just sign any FA they wanted whenever they wanted, even if they could fit him under the cap. As a top-4 team they had to lose a FA to sign a FA. The league doesn't do that anymore, but the Jets were subject to this rule for two offseasons in a row after making back to back AFCCGs.

That doesn't at all undo drafting the likes of Coples, Hill, Ellis, Milliner, Pryor, Amaro, etc. -- but it's easier to add a team's veteran pieces at the start of an unlimited spending spree than it is when a lot of the cap room is used up, and the prior draft picks were in need of expensive veteran contracts, and the team's further prohibited from signing others' UFAs. 

A real turning point (for the worse) was Tannenbaum extending Sanchez, claiming he thought he was getting in on an early extension that'd look smart a year or two later, and it wasn't exactly a universally-beloved move in the organization at the time. Instead that led to the facepalm offseason of trading for Tebow (Tannenbaum getting humiliated in the process by not reading the contract), and very possibly drafting R.Wilson in the middle of round 2 instead of trading up to take Stephen Hill. Butterfly effect of stupid begetting stupid. That awful extension, more than anything else, is the reason he got deservedly fired as the GM.

Thoroughly enjoyed the trip down Jets memory lane.  Please write a chapter 2.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I’m torn because I hate all the people you mentioned except for Sanchez whom I just kinda feel bad for despite his undeserved millions and boriqua good looks. As always, love your posts. And you. ❤️

SAR I - give the man a job already.  How much fealty can one man show?!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Thoroughly enjoyed the trip down Jets memory lane.  Please write a chapter 2.  

In the interest of protecting the fans, I'll first need to see proof you all have ample supplies of Wellbutrin on hand. JetNation is the site that cares.

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...