Jets must see big Zach Wilson picture and start Joe Flacco Week 1

[T0mShane]

17 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm not sure Cimini is making any sense here.

If Zach is healthy he should play.  Cimini is making this claim without talking to a doctor.  This is a 2-4 week injury.  It's 4 weeks on Fridasy.

He doesn't need to wait 5 weeks just because Cimini thinks he should.  

How does Cimini know Zach wasn't healed by week 3 and continued to rest an extra week already...Or ready after week 2 and has been resting an extra two weeks?

Zach Wilson is paid to play football - if he's 100% healthy he should play football.

Cannizzaro

[Jethead]

3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

16 games is a large enough sample size to judge any player. This BS that we need to see him play against the Ravens is absurd.  

It has nothing to do with sample size. He is QB1. If he's medically cleared, what is the question?

[More Cowbell]

7 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

You are irrationally assuming that an extra week would make some sort of difference without any information. If he is medically cleared it means more time isn’t needed. Take a second to think about what you are saying, it makes NO sense 

And exactly what are you doing? We're you sitting there evaluating  Wilson while he was working out? When though I don't  give Saleh enough credit to actually put up a smokescreen  on who will play QB this week, that can be what is going on here. 

[Biggs]

13 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The likelihood of Zach 1. Playing like ass and 2. Taking a beating are both pretty high in this game, and it’ll set the tone for how the team gets covered in the weeks ahead. It’s a bad matchup for Zach with or without the injury factor, and it makes sense to defer that noise for a week. Best case scenarios here are:

1. Zach goes out and somehow lights up the Ravens (which is extremely unlikely)

2a. Zach starts, throws for 150 yards, and Jets lose by two TDs (likely)

2b. Zach starts, the Ravens pressure him all day, and he’s limping around before halftime.

3. Zach sits and Flacco stinks, setting up a smooth transition next week against Jacoby Brissett on the road. (Most likely) 

 

I think Saleh—ever image conscious—is going to choose option 3. Why invite a forest fire early on if you can avoid it?

The Ravens D last year wasn't very good.  Against the pass it was terrible.  Cleveland on the other hand has a very good pass defense and puts a ton of pressure on the QB.  The week 1 matchup for our O is much better than week 2.  

The matchup isn't Zach against Lamar or Zach against Brissett.  Zach will face the Ravens D and Clevelands D.  Sending him in against Cleveland's D with no contact for a year is a dissaster waiting to happen.  The Ravens aren't the old Ravens.  They will try and outscore us.  There D isn't close to as good as Clevelands. 

[Augustiniak]

14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The likelihood of Zach 1. Playing like ass and 2. Taking a beating are both pretty high in this game, and it’ll set the tone for how the team gets covered in the weeks ahead. It’s a bad matchup for Zach with or without the injury factor, and it makes sense to defer that noise for a week. Best case scenarios here are:

1. Zach goes out and somehow lights up the Ravens (which is extremely unlikely)

2a. Zach starts, throws for 150 yards, and Jets lose by two TDs (likely)

2b. Zach starts, the Ravens pressure him all day, and he’s limping around before halftime.

3. Zach sits and Flacco stinks, setting up a smooth transition next week against Jacoby Brissett on the road. (Most likely) 

 

I think Saleh—ever image conscious—is going to choose option 3. Why invite a forest fire early on if you can avoid it?

I think saleh is going to choose to play Zach as long as he’s physically healed.  And i don’t think the opponent matters much here.  The OL is not ready for prime time and isn’t opening up the running game yet.  So this puts even more onus on wilson to deliver immediately.  And since he still doesn’t understand that playing hero ball will lose, that’s what we’re going to see on Sunday.  The biggest factor in that game if wilson plays especially, is the offensive game plan.  They need to figure out how to generate first downs, and use that speed.  Short passes to the TEs and RBs.  Quick outs to wilson and moore.  Empirically, Wilson’s pure skill sets are designed for this, he has a quick release and throws a mean pass.  They just can’t start running on first for no gain, then having 3rd and long every time where wilson is running around like the same headless chicken that Sanchez/geno/darnold were.  They need to move the chains wisely b/c you can’t win in the nfl if your TOP sucks.  Last year the jets were 30th in TOP and the ravens were 2nd in the nfl.  The jets need to flip that, and they need a good plan.

[SuicidalSince98]

21 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

And exactly what are you doing? We're you sitting there evaluating  Wilson while he was working out? When though I don't  give Saleh enough credit to actually put up a smokescreen  on who will play QB this week, that can be what is going on here. 

I am doing the exact opposite. If the doctors clear Wilson he should play, you know, using the actual medical information 

[T0mShane]

11 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The Ravens D last year wasn't very good.  Against the pass it was terrible.  Cleveland on the other hand has a very good pass defense and puts a ton of pressure on the QB.  The week 1 matchup for our O is much better than week 2.  

The matchup isn't Zach against Lamar or Zach against Brissett.  Zach will face the Ravens D and Clevelands D.  Sending him in against Cleveland's D with no contact for a year is a dissaster waiting to happen.  The Ravens aren't the old Ravens.  They will try and outscore us.  There D isn't close to as good as Clevelands. 

Eh. The Ravens lost Peters for the year and lost Humphrey for the last five. The numbers are skewed because they got rinsed by Burrow twice, Mahomes once, and Carr in the opener. The D fell off last season, but they were #2 points against in 2020 and #3 in 2019. They’ll be ok. I think the Ravens are going to score at will against us, and forcing Zach into passing situations is going to end poorly. By contrast, I think Brissett is going to stink, and the Jets O can be more balanced in that game as a result.

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

So to be clear, all of you in disagreement with the article, the limited amount of practice Zach will get prior to week 1 will NOT be an excuse if he plays poorly then?

Personally, I probably don’t start him, even if he was 100% healthy today. Because I’d want him to get more practice in given how little he’s had this camp/preseason. Him playing, but playing poorly, serves no one IMO.

If practices all week, how many more practices will he need to make you feel comfortable. Its not like last season when he was coming in green, he knows the offense and has worked throughout the offseason program. If he's healthy he starts. 

[Integrity28]

9 hours ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

If QB1 is healthy he should play 

2-4 week injury and it’s been 4 weeks 

“Let the knee fully heal” is an irrational take, Wilson will only play if it’s healed. The idea that he needs an extra week is completely arbitrary 

he’s participated in the bulk of offseason program and has been in every meeting 

this babying of Wilson is beyond absurd 

Missing 2-4 weeks of practice is the point. It’s less about Zach and his knee and more about putting a QB in the field who has prepared with the team adequately.

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Empirically, Wilson’s pure skill sets are designed for this, he has a quick release and throws a mean pass.

Ehhhhhh I disagree. I think we saw last season that Zach is not at all designed for the quick game.

[shuler82]

 

If he’s cleared physically he should be on the field week 1. If you’re worried about his mental makeup after sitting a few weeks then you’re conceding he doesn’t have what it takes to succeed.  
 

enough with the kid gloves. Time we see what he is 

[Trotter]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Ehhhhhh I disagree. I think we saw last season that Zach is not at all designed for the quick game.

Are we still talking about football - or you know that other talent he has?

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Ehhhhhh I disagree. I think we saw last season that Zach is not at all designed for the quick game.

Physically he is.  But if he does not see the field well, he’s not mentally prepared for it.

[SuicidalSince98]

2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Missing 2-4 weeks of practice is the point. It’s less about Zach and his knee and more about putting a QB in the field who has prepared with the team adequately.

That’s not what he said. Regardless, he practiced for months and took every mental rep while he was out. He would also have to practice this week. He missed 3 weeks not 3 months.

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

So to be clear, all of you in disagreement with the article, the limited amount of practice Zach will get prior to week 1 will NOT be an excuse if he plays poorly then?

Personally, I probably don’t start him, even if he was 100% healthy today. Because I’d want him to get more practice in given how little he’s had this camp/preseason. Him playing, but playing poorly, serves no one IMO.

He has participated in zero practices relative to the BAL game plan, but that’s okay because he threw the ball around in July with Brax.

[T0mShane]

I’m trying to imagine what a Zach Wilson “mental rep” looks like.

[munchmemory]

2 hours ago, Jetlife33 said:

 

And against how many live fire NFL defenses?   I love all the off-season rah-rah stuff.  Like a weekend throwing to guys means anything.  Notice that even in the first pre-season game, Zach threw another dumb signature INT.    Guess he needed a few more reps with Wesco, Mims and the rest of the guys he flew out to the Coast.

[slats]

I’d use the opportunity of the injury to sit Zach this week. His problems last season were about 99% mental/psychological, imho, and I think Cannizzaro is correct when he says Zach needs to be protected from himself a little bit here. I’m sure he’s chomping at the bit to get back in there, but that eagerness is the sort of thing that’s likely to get him into trouble - trying to do too much.  
 
One week of Flacco against his old team for the first time in his career, running the offense in a calm manner as designed, will be good for Zach (to watch) and the entire team. 
 
Browns defense is probably a bigger challenge than the Ravens, but I’d definitely have him in the lineup next week if he’s cleared physically this week and practicing. 

[shuler82]

2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

He has participated in zero practices relative to the BAL game plan, but that’s okay because he threw the ball around in July with Brax.

So he hasn’t been in the meetings or at practice?
 

 If he’s cleared and can practice this week sitting him is basically a cover up- same as when they held him out for a few extra weeks last season . and if that’s what they have to do in year 2 we’re in trouble 

[T0mShane]

Just now, munchmemory said:

he flew out to the Coast.

*Idaho

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

So to be clear, all of you in disagreement with the article, the limited amount of practice Zach will get prior to week 1 will NOT be an excuse if he plays poorly then?

[munchmemory]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

*Idaho

Good morning, Tom.  Thank you for the correction.    Now that I know it was Idaho, Zach should be fine playing this week.   Something about exposure to the air or potatoes out there just fortifies a person.

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’m trying to imagine what a Zach Wilson “mental rep” looks like.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Good morning, Tom.  Thank you for the correction.    Now that I know it was Idaho, Zach should be fine playing this week.   Something about exposure to the air or potatoes out there just fortifies a person.

“The Coast” made it sound cooler than it was. Had to correct the record.

[paulyjet]

Welp... Zach's starting...

My excitement for game one is gone.

And I'm a Zach Wilson fan, I just think that lack of was showing us more than Zach right now.

?

[More Cowbell]

42 minutes ago, Jethead said:

It has nothing to do with sample size. He is QB1. If he's medically cleared, what is the question?

Because this is the second time in less than a year he injured this knee and there wasn't  even any contact. Be cautious.  I am sick of watching this team throw players out there before they were ready

[munchmemory]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

“The Coast” made it sound cooler than it was. Had to correct the record.

I know I usually come off as snarky.  But I was serious about your correction.   Thanks again.  You're right about the Coast sounding better than Idaho.

[jgb]

44 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The likelihood of Zach 1. Playing like ass and 2. Taking a beating are both pretty high in this game, and it’ll set the tone for how the team gets covered in the weeks ahead. It’s a bad matchup for Zach with or without the injury factor, and it makes sense to defer that noise for a week. Best case scenarios here are:

1. Zach goes out and somehow lights up the Ravens (which is extremely unlikely)

2a. Zach starts, throws for 150 yards, and Jets lose by two TDs (likely)

2b. Zach starts, the Ravens pressure him all day, and he’s limping around before halftime.

3. Zach sits and Flacco stinks, setting up a smooth transition next week against Jacoby Brissett on the road. (Most likely) 

 

I think Saleh—ever image conscious—is going to choose option 3. Why invite a forest fire early on if you can avoid it?

You’re forgetting 4 (the nightmare scenario for JD/Saleh). Flacco plays well enough where after one game of BYU, the fanbase revolts for Flacco to return.

[Biggs]

19 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Eh. The Ravens lost Peters for the year and lost Humphrey for the last five. The numbers are skewed because they got rinsed by Burrow twice, Mahomes once, and Carr in the opener. The D fell off last season, but they were #2 points against in 2020 and #3 in 2019. They’ll be ok. I think the Ravens are going to score at will against us, and forcing Zach into passing situations is going to end poorly. By contrast, I think Brissett is going to stink, and the Jets O can be more balanced in that game as a result.

Teams that run up scores usually let up on D and play a form of prevent.  It's almost a given in the NFL.   The Browns will be playing a field position game and will play hard nosed D from start to finish because they have to.  

We've seen this in the NFL for years.  Teams that run up the score even ones with good D's take their foot off the gas.  

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, jgb said:

You’re forgetting 4 (the nightmare scenario for JD/Saleh). Flacco plays well enough where after one game of BYU, the fanbase revolts for Flacco to return.

Game three is Bengals at home, too. Imagine what loud chants for Mike White are gonna do for Zach’s confidence if the Bengals get up early?

[Joe W. Namath]

Only jet fans would whine about bringing a player who had a 2 week injury back in 4 weeks.  Just unreal.

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

I don't  agree. The kid has shown to be injury prone with that knee. This game and even this season means nothing in terms of wins and losses. This isn't  a playoff team yet. Give Wilson and extra week and keep him on the field the rest of the season. 16 games is more than enough to make the decision  if Wilson is the franchise QB of the future. 

I disagree with the bolded, as well as probably the front office and players.

This team can and should be in playoff contention late in the season.  But it's not going to happen with Joe Flacco.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Teams that run up scores usually let up on D and play a form of prevent.  It's almost a given in the NFL.   The Browns will be playing a field position game and will play hard nosed D from start to finish because they have to.  

We've seen this in the NFL for years.  Teams that run up the score even ones with good D's take their foot off the gas.  

For sure, but if the Jets are down 14+ at the half, Zach Wilson is throwing the ball 40 times. Even against a soft(er) zone, that’s perilous territory. Best case for the offense is Breece Hall and Michael Carter rushing for 200 yards per.

[More Cowbell]

27 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

I am doing the exact opposite. If the doctors clear Wilson he should play, you know, using the actual medical information 

My point exactly. You don't  know if he was cleared. None of us do. No announcement  has been made. We are all talking about the possibilities. Ypu taking a different position than me doesn't  make you more right but on my side is a bad history  with this knee and the Jets horrible rep of rushing players back before they are ready to play. The Jets pretty much ruined Penningtons throwing shoulder doing that. 

[bostonmajet]

49 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

16 games is a large enough sample size to judge any player. This BS that we need to see him play against the Ravens is absurd.  

Well, most QB take at least 2-3 years to show their promise. Many QBs have either bad 1st or 2nd years and still turn out okay. ZW was not good last year especially in the beginning, but he wasn't a lost cause and didn't 'see ghosts'. At this point, ZW has to make it to the next level. If that is going to happen, most likely it will be this year. If not, the season is already lost - might as well loose every game and pick a new QB next year. Flacco is done - we are not going anywhere with him. Either ZW is our future or we need to move on. While I realize that many fans and most writers have the power of premonition, the rest of us mortals, including JD and the CS need at least another year. ZW needs to step up. If ZW is a bust we are better off starting White or the Strev.

Flacco's only value is to give us a chance to win games IF ZW is really hurt - otherwise it just doesn't matter. If ZW isn't our guy, the 4 or 5 wins Flacco may get us only move us further away from getting the next QB. The idea that we are going to have a vet QB full into our lap is ridiculous - we will need to either draft a rookie or trade high 1st picks.

If ZW is a bust this is going to be another brutal year, so may as well hope that he isn't.