Flacco starting against Ravens; Wilson out until week 4: MERGED

[Asymmetrical]

6 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

I mean, is it possible we finally have a staff that can recognize how bad things are?

It doesn't take much to watch Wilson right now and think, "nope."

 

I doubt it but it's an interesting thought. They might be seeing some of their contemporaries in AZ, LA, SF etc pulling the plug when they've seen enough and not suffering for it. Don't think it is the case though.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Bugg said:

If Wilson really wanted to play, he would be playing.The job is 95% showing up; Wilson won't be on the field Sunday.

  This whole "his doctors, their doctors" stuff is crap. Want to be an NFL QB; you play hurt sometimes. Heck, Ben Rothlisberger played half a season with a totally torn meniscus. Unless really they're benching him and this is all cover

No matter; next guy up.

No confidence Wilson will ever amount to anything. And this is one more reason. 

Wilson is managed from on high by Steve Young and his helicopter parents. Young knows first-hand the perils of playing hurt for a bad organization and Young 1000% believes that the Jets are a bad organization. 

[Zachtomims47]

15 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

I mean, is it possible we finally have a staff that can recognize how bad things are?

It doesn't take much to watch Wilson right now and think, "nope."

Think it just makes things a little easier on them.  Sucks your young developing QB got hurt for a while but now you have this chance to see how things run with a veteran who had a pretty good camp. 

If Flacco falls on his face, then back to Zach when he's healthy and you ride it out. 

The whole thing was a stupid smokescreen for the Ravens and now that the season is here, they don't want questions if Zach is coming back this week every week. Just go all in on Flacco for a month and see how it plays out. 

[SickJetFan]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

The whole “benching to reset” strategy maybe could work in the middle of the season but to employ it week 1??? He will probably make some appearances this year but that will likely be all she wrote for his Jets journey.

I also like to announce that I’m tired of performing the least-enjoyable aspects of my job. My boss responds really well to that.

In my mind this staff has made many of these ??? choices and most of them non-QB related

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Wilson is managed from on high by Steve Young and his helicopter parents. Young knows first-hand the perils of playing hurt for a bad organization and Young 1000% believes that the Jets are a bad organization. 

I heard that Steve Young's family doesn't care about football.  I could see him meddling in Zach's business on behalf of the 49ers as his way to scratch the football itch (aside from his announcing work)

[ZachEY]

20 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

What’s sad is that this is likely best case scenario

I mean, it begs the question, what did you watch in college that made you think things would be any different than they are?

I don't watch college, but watched his bowl game, and thought, "nope" then.  But, supported the pick as I always tend to do, and frankly, thought it was probably the only pick to make there at the time.  Jets were in a bad spot.  You couldn't go w/ Darnold again, and Mac Jones wasn't the pick at 2.  I advocated for trading for Stafford, but the Rams gave up a ton, and he'd (rightly) have chosen them over us.

Just a bad spot - Hopefully he looks entirely different whenever he's back, but odds are we're picking a QB again.

[ZachEY]

10 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Think it just makes things a little easier on them.  Sucks your young developing QB got hurt for a while but now you have this chance to see how things run with a veteran who had a pretty good camp. 

If Flacco falls on his face, then back to Zach when he's healthy and you ride it out. 

The whole thing was a stupid smokescreen for the Ravens and now that the season is here, they don't want questions if Zach is coming back this week every week. Just go all in on Flacco for a month and see how it plays out. 

I never got the smokescreen thing when all options are bad.

Do you think the Ravens were really worried they may have to "prepare" for Zach Wilson.  Today, Wilson does nothing well.  Not one thing.  They weren't trembling thinking about this possibility he'd be out there.

[SickJetFan]

3 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I heard that Steve Young's family doesn't care about football.  I could see him meddling in Zach's business on behalf of the 49ers as his way to scratch the football itch (aside from his announcing work)

lest we not forgot this all started because of Zach, He went around the country and was all in on J E T S, he ****ed up his knee on a boneheaded play, he threw those 2 INT (green and white & PS game) right to defender basket.

so lets not pretend that Steve Young has been working behind the scenes here to make him a 49er I think it is more about damage control.

 

[Matt39]

Just now, ZachEY said:

I mean, it begs the question, what did you watch in college that made you think things would be any different than they are?

I don't watch college, but watched his bowl game, and thought, "nope" then.  But, supported the pick as I always tend to do, and frankly, thought it was probably the only pick to make there at the time.  Jets were in a bad spot.  You couldn't go w/ Darnold again, and Mac Jones wasn't the pick at 2.  I advocated for trading for Stafford, but the Rams gave up a ton, and he'd (rightly) have chosen them over us.

Just a bad spot - Hopefully he looks entirely different whenever he's back, but odds are we're picking a QB again.

Wilson has athletic talent and a good arm. He’s definitely a kid that can pick up any sport and just be good at it. The transition from BYU and having all day to throw to the NFL was pretty huge. Also he never got hit in college.  The Jets were banking on his internal clock being part of the package. Instead it was deer in headlights. This can improve but with another injury the likelihood is fading. He still drops back thinking he’s going to have 10 seconds to throw and when he doesn’t he scrambles.

[dbatesman]

35 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

I mean, is it possible we finally have a staff that can recognize how bad things are?

It doesn't take much to watch Wilson right now and think, "nope."

It's certainly possible, though it seems so unlikely that just thinking about it is making my head hurt.

[Zachtomims47]

1 minute ago, ZachEY said:

I never got the smokescreen thing when all options are bad.

Do you think the Ravens were really worried they may have to "prepare" for Zach Wilson.  Today, Wilson does nothing well.  Not one thing.  They weren't trembling thinking about this possibility he'd be out there.

Worried? No lol. But may have to do a bit more prep/different plan. Prob not much though. I never understood it either. But it is a thing coaches do, so. 

Its either that or Saleh was talking too much and when he knew it was likely the decision of the whole room would be to keep him out for a few weeks. Aside from annoying us fans, it's all stupid.

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

It's certainly possible, though it seems so unlikely that just thinking about it is making my head hurt.

Woody Johnson allowing the staff make a decision like this solely based off of performance seems unlikely if we’re being honest. 

[ZachEY]

3 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Wilson has athletic talent and a good arm. He’s definitely a kid that can pick up any sport and just be good at it. The transition from BYU and having all day to throw to the NFL was pretty huge. Also he never got hit in college.  The Jets were banking on his internal clock being part of the package. Instead it was deer in headlights. This can improve but with another injury the likelihood is fading. He still drops back thinking he’s going to have 10 seconds to throw and when he doesn’t he scrambles.

I just don't think the NFL is where you learn to play quarterback.  And Wilson is a good athlete, but so is everyone else in the league.  He's not special in any regard that would allow him to overcome shortcomings.

Josh Allen didn't learn to play QB here.  He just got his accuracy under control in a pretty unprecedented way.  Contrast that with Sam Darnold who still didn't know the position well - and Darnold just never got any better.

[dbatesman]

6 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

I just don't think the NFL is where you learn to play quarterback.  And Wilson is a good athlete, but so is everyone else in the league.  He's not special in any regard that would allow him to overcome shortcomings.

Josh Allen didn't learn to play QB here.  He just got his accuracy under control in a pretty unprecedented way.  Contrast that with Sam Darnold who still didn't know the position well - and Darnold just never got any better.

I think part of it is the offense, too. My (very basic) understanding of the offense is that it is designed to make throws easy, so even mediocre QBs--like, say, Jimmy Garoppolo--can succeed in it. That's what we've seen here. Some quick back-of-the-napkin math gives me the following numbers for our various backups, as compared against Wilson's "good" stretch at the end of last season:

Flacco/White/Josh Johnson: ~7 games, 66%, 1,608 yards, 7.4 YPA, 11 TD, 9 INT, 8 sacks

Wilson: 7 games, 54%, 1,166 yards, 5.77 YPA, 9 total TD, 2 INT, 25 (!!!) sacks

The drastic improvement in turnovers is impressive, and it's the reason I'm not ready to give up on Wilson yet, but 54% completions, less than 6 yards per attempt, and 3.5 sacks per game is not a functional offense. I wouldn't be surprised if they want to get a look at how Flacco does with Moore, G. Wilson, Hall, Conklin, etc., especially since he apparently had a great camp.

[Dunnie]

22 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Wilson has athletic talent and a good arm. He’s definitely a kid that can pick up any sport and just be good at it. The transition from BYU and having all day to throw to the NFL was pretty huge. Also he never got hit in college.  The Jets were banking on his internal clock being part of the package. Instead it was deer in headlights. This can improve but with another injury the likelihood is fading. He still drops back thinking he’s going to have 10 seconds to throw and when he doesn’t he scrambles.

I 100% AGREE WITH THIS ... however

This is one of the easiest things to manage ... have a guy with a starters gun standing in the backfield with a stop watch ... 2.7 seconds fire the gun. 

 

[Bugg]

I 100% AGREE WITH THIS ... however
This is one of the easiest things to manage ... have a guy with a starters gun standing in the backfield with a stop watch ... 2.7 seconds fire the gun. 
 

Not sure you can correct bad decisions in game situations. This is where taking Wilson over a major school QB line Mac Jones bites you in the ass. QB in the SEC , ACC , PAC10 and the Big 10 are playing against players who are going to the NFL. BYU talent wise and their competition was eons from the NFL. Add in COVID and Wilson is fool’s gold. Grant you this been strange cases with quarterbacks playing in D2 or Lower D1 (Josh Allen or Joe Flacco ) but it’s up unusual these days. And both of those guys are physical giants compared to Wilson.


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[jgb]

wrong thread

[ZachEY]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

wrong thread

Is it though?

[ZachEY]

26 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I think part of it is the offense, too. My (very basic) understanding of the offense is that it is designed to make throws easy, so even mediocre QBs--like, say, Jimmy Garoppolo--can succeed in it. That's what we've seen here. Some quick back-of-the-napkin math gives me the following numbers for our various backups, as compared against Wilson's "good" stretch at the end of last season:

Flacco/White/Josh Johnson: ~7 games, 66%, 1,608 yards, 7.4 YPA, 11 TD, 9 INT, 8 sacks

Wilson: 7 games, 54%, 1,166 yards, 5.77 YPA, 9 total TD, 2 INT, 25 (!!!) sacks

The drastic improvement in turnovers is impressive, and it's the reason I'm not ready to give up on Wilson yet, but 54% completions, less than 6 yards per attempt, and 3.5 sacks per game is not a functional offense. I wouldn't be surprised if they want to get a look at how Flacco does with Moore, G. Wilson, Hall, Conklin, etc., especially since he apparently had a great camp.

I always felt the reduction in turnovers was aided by the reduction in doing literally anything.  I'd think most QBs at any level could also not throw INTs if they were restricted from doing much of anything.  Especially from doing the things that supposedly were going to make them special.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, ZachEY said:

I always felt the reduction in turnovers was aided by the reduction in doing literally anything.  I'd think most QBs at any level could also not throw INTs if they were restricted from doing much of anything.  Especially from doing the things that supposedly were going to make them special.

I, too, have never thrown an INT in an NFL game.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

In the grand scheme of things, this is the best thing that could have happened for the Jets. no matter what you think of Wilson, no way he was going to step in and play at a high level missing pre season and with a tough schedule, and still being very young and having a lot of growth to do as a QB.

Now we can see Flacco and the rest of the team. If they play well, great, keep them at it and ride it as long as they can.

If Flacco does what I expect him to, we can see Mike White who everyone loves. If he does well, great, keep him in and see what you have in him and keep ZW out until Mike White sucks for a while.

When all of that happens, and it will, you bring in ZW, if you can have a half a season of him or more you will know what you have by the end of the year, and everyone will ahve already seen what this team can do with Flacco and Mike White as a benchmark to compare ZW, which is largely what this season is about anyhoo.

[RutgersJetFan]

36 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I 100% AGREE WITH THIS ... however

This is one of the easiest things to manage ... have a guy with a starters gun standing in the backfield with a stop watch ... 2.7 seconds fire the gun. 

 

Yes I'm sure nothing will calm him down better than a gun being fired in his ear

[Dunnie]

1 minute ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Yes I'm sure nothing will calm him down better than a gun being fired in his ear

... grow some balls.

[ZachEY]

13 minutes ago, jgb said:

I, too, have never thrown an INT in an NFL game.

pussy.

[THE BARON]

Very smart move for the CS to sit Wilson for a while.  I feel very strongly about this.  Flame me if you feel the urge, but I believe this to be the best chance there is for the Jets CS to save Wilson's career.  The injury is not the issue.  It is his refusal/inability to resign himself to the concept that he is no longer playing in college.  We know he has arm talent and we know he can move.  What we have not seen at all yet is a QB that has thought process of an NFL QB.

Being censured to the bench right now, is the last best chance there is for Wilson to reflect, and at last, begin to play the position with the mind of a professional QB. 

Even though we will never hear the coaches saying this to the media, I also HOPE that they are *strongly* drilling this into Wilson's head at length and incessantly.  It is *that* important.   Riding the bench is only part of what is needed to get him to turn the corner.  The coaches have to actively be stressing this to Wilson while he cools his heels on the bench.

Those that want Wilson to play now, I don't think are understanding what is unfolding with Wilson and his career.

If he does not get it now, he never will.  That means "BUST".

At least, he does have this chance now to think, reflect and grow.  

What will it be ??? 

I hope he gets it, and we see an NFL QB week 5.

Until then, I predict Flacco will do a very nice job.  

[jgb]

Just now, ZachEY said:

pussy.

I was just following the game plan

[ZachEY]

13 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

In the grand scheme of things, this is the best thing that could have happened for the Jets.

This is very true, and very bad.

[RutgersJetFan]

6 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

... grow some balls.

oh wow such machismo

[Dunnie]

1 minute ago, RutgersJetFan said:

oh wow such machismo

Just sayin' .. i ran track ... those guns are fine.

Training him to get rid of the ball in timely fashion is a Pavlov thing.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

12 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

This is very true, and very bad.

It probably is, but I personally thought ZW would have been better off sitting first half of last year. I am not sure if he is salvageable, but if he is, this is probably he best path to salvaging him. If he came in and sh*t the bed, which he likely would have done, he may have been done. If he can learn a little while sitting and come in and play well by week 5-8, there may be some hope

[RutgersJetFan]

13 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Just sayin' .. i ran track ...

oh wow

[slimjasi]

17 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

oh wow such machismo

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Yes I'm sure nothing will calm him down better than a gun being fired in his ear

Works for southerners.  

[johnnysd]

15 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

other than @johnnysd?

I am more in the "we don't know yet" camp but still feel he has elite upside and we need to stay committed to him. If he completely fails with all the weapons we have then I will be in the dump Wilson crowd too. What I rail against are the people that incessantly post that Zach sucks and we should move on right now. That is just ludicrous.

[johnnysd]

1 hour ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

It probably is, but I personally thought ZW would have been better off sitting first half of last year. I am not sure if he is salvageable, but if he is, this is probably he best path to salvaging him. If he came in and sh*t the bed, which he likely would have done, he may have been done. If he can learn a little while sitting and come in and play well by week 5-8, there may be some hope

He learns next to nothing at this point from watching.