Flacco starting against Ravens; Wilson out until week 4: MERGED

[football guy]

There's a lot going on behind the scenes with this, and I'm not necessarily a fan of much of it... 

1. Coach-speak. Saleh wasn't totally lying when he said Zach had a "chance" to play week 1, but he did know Flacco was starting. The reality is, if this were a more important game and Zach was a more seasoned veteran, he would be suiting up. But he's young, still green, isn't 100% (how many players are?) and they feel like Flacco does give them a legitimate chance to win week 1. More on why that is later. 
2. Exercising excessive caution. While I do understand sitting him week 1 and always expected it, I am absolutely baffled by the decision to announce that he won't play until week 4 "the earliest". He can absolutely play sooner, but he's being babied, which I really don't like. Again, very rarely is a player 100%, let alone "110%". Part of being a pro is managing whatever you're going through and being aware enough to protect yourself without sacrificing performance. Zach has a balky knee. He needs to learn how to play through that while protecting it and without it hindering his play by much. Tacking on an extra 2 weeks to be "sure" is foolish... in this sport, you can be the healthiest player, you can know the gameplan inside-and-out, see the defense well but then hit the field and bomb or be out for the season one play later. Let the guy keep preparing as if he's going to play and make the call based on his ability to practice and be ready, not based on other factors. It doesn't matter how much the team has invested in him, you shouldn't put a predetermined timeline on when he "may" be ready to play. 
3. They'll never admit it publicly, but the main reason has more to do with the OL than Zach's knee. The main reason they're being excessively cautious with Zach has a lot more to do with the line in front of him rather than what's actually going on in that knee. They are abundantly aware that between the CBA limitations on "hitting" in training camp, limited reps with the starters as a group (specifically Duane Brown coming in late/George Fant dealing with various injuries), the Jets brass feel they will need a few games worth of reps before they actually gel as a unit. Putting a much less experienced Zach Wilson back there - with his knee - while the OL is trying to figure things out makes both the front office and coaching staff nervous, and that was before Duane Brown's shoulder injury popped up. Putting in Joe Flacco - who the Jets are confident will get everyone in position, help the offensive line with their protections, and get the ball out quickly? Their much more confident. As much as the doctors are forecasting when Zach will be "110%" healthy, the coaching staff and front office are projecting how much time it will take for the offensive line to properly gel. This also bothers me. If you don't trust your OL and think it will take 3 games for them to gel, you're signaling not only a lack of faith in the OL, but a lack of faith in your QB (again, babying). Why use the injury as an excuse to let the team improve around the QB? Just seems like a poor strategy... 
4. Leaving the door open. Everyone in the Jets facility knows Zach is the guy. There is no question about that. They also know that while Joe Flacco limits the offense in some ways and is not the future of the organization, he is capable of being a spot-starter and putting the Jets in position to win football games. He can put forth a performance like Mike White did against the Bengals if the right things click, but also provide more of a downfield element. If Joe comes in and plays off his rocker the way Mike White did for 5 quarters last year but for all 3 games and goes 3-0/2-1 in the process, they're going to give him the 4th game, 5th game, etc. But they are realistic that eventually he will likely fall back to earth and they will revert back to Wilson. This strategy bothers me a lot as well. If Zach is your starter, he is your starter. Period. Don't put a leash on it; make it clear that he will miss week 1, is questionable for week 2/3/4. Once he is able to practice fully, it's his team. That's it. Trying to "stash" him until someone in front of him flubs is such a baseball strategy. You drafted him to be your franchise QB and made him a week 1 starter last year. There's no going back on it. If the team felt he needed more time to develop, he shouldn't have been starter last year. That's it. They've gotten way too cute and a lot of it stems from how the staff views players and their expectations of them. This is where the "Shanahanian" aspect of the coaching staff bothers me... they want Zach to be the controller for LaFleur to execute each play the way he sees it... need to let Zach go in and figure things out on his own. It's the same thing that has held several other young and talented offensive players back in the scheme. Don't be so rigid; be willing to show flexibility in the scheme to help produce confidence in the player and results on the field, while teaching them to learn how to execute the offense the way its designed overtime. 

[slimjasi]

6 minutes ago, football guy said:

There's a lot going on behind the scenes with this, and I'm not necessarily a fan of much of it... 

1. Coach-speak. Saleh wasn't totally lying when he said Zach had a "chance" to play week 1, but he did know Flacco was starting. The reality is, if this were a more important game and Zach was a more seasoned veteran, he would be suiting up. But he's young, still green, isn't 100% (how many players are?) and they feel like Flacco does give them a legitimate chance to win week 1. More on why that is later. 
2. Exercising excessive caution. While I do understand sitting him week 1 and always expected it, I am absolutely baffled by the decision to announce that he won't play until week 4 "the earliest". He can absolutely play sooner, but he's being babied, which I really don't like. Again, very rarely is a player 100%, let alone "110%". Part of being a pro is managing whatever you're going through and being aware enough to protect yourself without sacrificing performance. Zach has a balky knee. He needs to learn how to play through that while protecting it and without it hindering his play by much. Tacking on an extra 2 weeks to be "sure" is foolish... in this sport, you can be the healthiest player, you can know the gameplan inside-and-out, see the defense well but then hit the field and bomb or be out for the season one play later. Let the guy keep preparing as if he's going to play and make the call based on his ability to practice and be ready, not based on other factors. It doesn't matter how much the team has invested in him, you shouldn't put a predetermined timeline on when he "may" be ready to play. 
3. They'll never admit it publicly, but the main reason has more to do with the OL than Zach's knee. The main reason they're being excessively cautious with Zach has a lot more to do with the line in front of him rather than what's actually going on in that knee. They are abundantly aware that between the CBA limitations on "hitting" in training camp, limited reps with the starters as a group (specifically Duane Brown coming in late/George Fant dealing with various injuries), the Jets brass feel they will need a few games worth of reps before they actually gel as a unit. Putting a much less experienced Zach Wilson back there - with his knee - while the OL is trying to figure things out makes both the front office and coaching staff nervous, and that was before Duane Brown's shoulder injury popped up. Putting in Joe Flacco - who the Jets are confident will get everyone in position, help the offensive line with their protections, and get the ball out quickly? Their much more confident. As much as the doctors are forecasting when Zach will be "110%" healthy, the coaching staff and front office are projecting how much time it will take for the offensive line to properly gel. This also bothers me. If you don't trust your OL and think it will take 3 games for them to gel, you're signaling not only a lack of faith in the OL, but a lack of faith in your QB (again, babying). Why use the injury as an excuse to let the team improve around the QB? Just seems like a poor strategy... 
4. Leaving the door open. Everyone in the Jets facility knows Zach is the guy. There is no question about that. They also know that while Joe Flacco limits the offense in some ways and is not the future of the organization, he is capable of being a spot-starter and putting the Jets in position to win football games. He can put forth a performance like Mike White did against the Bengals if the right things click, but also provide more of a downfield element. If Joe comes in and plays off his rocker the way Mike White did for 5 quarters last year but for all 3 games and goes 3-0/2-1 in the process, they're going to give him the 4th game, 5th game, etc. But they are realistic that eventually he will likely fall back to earth and they will revert back to Wilson. This strategy bothers me a lot as well. If Zach is your starter, he is your starter. Period. Don't put a leash on it; make it clear that he will miss week 1, is questionable for week 2/3/4. Once he is able to practice fully, it's his team. That's it. Trying to "stash" him until someone in front of him flubs is such a baseball strategy. You drafted him to be your franchise QB and made him a week 1 starter last year. There's no going back on it. If the team felt he needed more time to develop, he shouldn't have been starter last year. That's it. They've gotten way too cute and a lot of it stems from how the staff views players and their expectations of them. This is where the "Shanahanian" aspect of the coaching staff bothers me... they want Zach to be the controller for LaFleur to execute each play the way he sees it... need to let Zach go in and figure things out on his own. It's the same thing that has held several other young and talented offensive players back in the scheme. Don't be so rigid; be willing to show flexibility in the scheme to help produce confidence in the player and results on the field, while teaching them to learn how to execute the offense the way its designed overtime. 

This is a great post. Thanks for sharing. 

 

I only want to quickly add that players can never be 110% because 110% doesn't exist and is a meaningless f*cking term. 

When people use that expression, it makes me want to stab myself in the eyes. 

[Matt39]

10 minutes ago, football guy said:

There's a lot going on behind the scenes with this, and I'm not necessarily a fan of much of it... 

1. Coach-speak. Saleh wasn't totally lying when he said Zach had a "chance" to play week 1, but he did know Flacco was starting. The reality is, if this were a more important game and Zach was a more seasoned veteran, he would be suiting up. But he's young, still green, isn't 100% (how many players are?) and they feel like Flacco does give them a legitimate chance to win week 1. More on why that is later. 
2. Exercising excessive caution. While I do understand sitting him week 1 and always expected it, I am absolutely baffled by the decision to announce that he won't play until week 4 "the earliest". He can absolutely play sooner, but he's being babied, which I really don't like. Again, very rarely is a player 100%, let alone "110%". Part of being a pro is managing whatever you're going through and being aware enough to protect yourself without sacrificing performance. Zach has a balky knee. He needs to learn how to play through that while protecting it and without it hindering his play by much. Tacking on an extra 2 weeks to be "sure" is foolish... in this sport, you can be the healthiest player, you can know the gameplan inside-and-out, see the defense well but then hit the field and bomb or be out for the season one play later. Let the guy keep preparing as if he's going to play and make the call based on his ability to practice and be ready, not based on other factors. It doesn't matter how much the team has invested in him, you shouldn't put a predetermined timeline on when he "may" be ready to play. 
3. They'll never admit it publicly, but the main reason has more to do with the OL than Zach's knee. The main reason they're being excessively cautious with Zach has a lot more to do with the line in front of him rather than what's actually going on in that knee. They are abundantly aware that between the CBA limitations on "hitting" in training camp, limited reps with the starters as a group (specifically Duane Brown coming in late/George Fant dealing with various injuries), the Jets brass feel they will need a few games worth of reps before they actually gel as a unit. Putting a much less experienced Zach Wilson back there - with his knee - while the OL is trying to figure things out makes both the front office and coaching staff nervous, and that was before Duane Brown's shoulder injury popped up. Putting in Joe Flacco - who the Jets are confident will get everyone in position, help the offensive line with their protections, and get the ball out quickly? Their much more confident. As much as the doctors are forecasting when Zach will be "110%" healthy, the coaching staff and front office are projecting how much time it will take for the offensive line to properly gel. This also bothers me. If you don't trust your OL and think it will take 3 games for them to gel, you're signaling not only a lack of faith in the OL, but a lack of faith in your QB (again, babying). Why use the injury as an excuse to let the team improve around the QB? Just seems like a poor strategy... 
4. Leaving the door open. Everyone in the Jets facility knows Zach is the guy. There is no question about that. They also know that while Joe Flacco limits the offense in some ways and is not the future of the organization, he is capable of being a spot-starter and putting the Jets in position to win football games. He can put forth a performance like Mike White did against the Bengals if the right things click, but also provide more of a downfield element. If Joe comes in and plays off his rocker the way Mike White did for 5 quarters last year but for all 3 games and goes 3-0/2-1 in the process, they're going to give him the 4th game, 5th game, etc. But they are realistic that eventually he will likely fall back to earth and they will revert back to Wilson. This strategy bothers me a lot as well. If Zach is your starter, he is your starter. Period. Don't put a leash on it; make it clear that he will miss week 1, is questionable for week 2/3/4. Once he is able to practice fully, it's his team. That's it. Trying to "stash" him until someone in front of him flubs is such a baseball strategy. You drafted him to be your franchise QB and made him a week 1 starter last year. There's no going back on it. If the team felt he needed more time to develop, he shouldn't have been starter last year. That's it. They've gotten way too cute and a lot of it stems from how the staff views players and their expectations of them. This is where the "Shanahanian" aspect of the coaching staff bothers me... they want Zach to be the controller for LaFleur to execute each play the way he sees it... need to let Zach go in and figure things out on his own. It's the same thing that has held several other young and talented offensive players back in the scheme. Don't be so rigid; be willing to show flexibility in the scheme to help produce confidence in the player and results on the field, while teaching them to learn how to execute the offense the way its designed overtime. 

Thanks for sharing, if true it’s bad and this type of damage control already points to a dysfunctional franchise. As far as the facility knowing Zach is the guy…are they aware that most people outside of the facility feel he isn’t?

[Flea Flicking Frank]

58 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

He learns next to nothing at this point from watching.

I don't completely agree

[football guy]

11 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

This is a great post. Thanks for sharing. 

 

I only want to quickly add that players can never be 110% because 110% doesn't exist and is a meaningless f*cking term. 

When people use that expression, it makes me want to stab myself in the eyes. 

I totally agree. I wanted to throw up when I heard that

13 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Thanks for sharing, if true it’s bad and this type of damage control already points to a dysfunctional franchise. As far as the facility knowing Zach is the guy…are they aware that most people outside of the facility feel he isn’t?

You did it in a lot less words than I had to use. They're overcomplicating this. I don't think they really care what people outside the organization feel, but maybe they should

[BP]

Isn’t it funny how all the negative things only happens to the jets when it counts ? what happened to the feel good positivity that was going on all off season and pre season? 
 

This is why they should be brutally honest and use reverse psychology. Because they really do suck until they prove otherwise. And I mean starting this Sunday, not February-august. So tired of this sh*t.

[ZachEY]

58 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Thanks for sharing, if true it’s bad and this type of damage control already points to a dysfunctional franchise. As far as the facility knowing Zach is the guy…are they aware that most people outside of the facility feel he isn’t?

 

44 minutes ago, football guy said:

I totally agree. I wanted to throw up when I heard that

You did it in a lot less words than I had to use. They're overcomplicating this. I don't think they really care what people outside the organization feel, but maybe they should

Depends what "the guy" means.

I was hoping in the original post, it meant, the unquestioned starter of the Jets this year.  I'm worried it means they think he's good.  Because, if that's the case, then yeah, that seems like a problem, considering he's meaningfully worse than Darnold or Sanchez.

[SickJetFan]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

There's a lot going on behind the scenes with this, and I'm not necessarily a fan of much of it... 

1. Coach-speak. Saleh wasn't totally lying when he said Zach had a "chance" to play week 1, but he did know Flacco was starting. The reality is, if this were a more important game and Zach was a more seasoned veteran, he would be suiting up. But he's young, still green, isn't 100% (how many players are?) and they feel like Flacco does give them a legitimate chance to win week 1. More on why that is later. 
2. Exercising excessive caution. While I do understand sitting him week 1 and always expected it, I am absolutely baffled by the decision to announce that he won't play until week 4 "the earliest". He can absolutely play sooner, but he's being babied, which I really don't like. Again, very rarely is a player 100%, let alone "110%". Part of being a pro is managing whatever you're going through and being aware enough to protect yourself without sacrificing performance. Zach has a balky knee. He needs to learn how to play through that while protecting it and without it hindering his play by much. Tacking on an extra 2 weeks to be "sure" is foolish... in this sport, you can be the healthiest player, you can know the gameplan inside-and-out, see the defense well but then hit the field and bomb or be out for the season one play later. Let the guy keep preparing as if he's going to play and make the call based on his ability to practice and be ready, not based on other factors. It doesn't matter how much the team has invested in him, you shouldn't put a predetermined timeline on when he "may" be ready to play. 
3. They'll never admit it publicly, but the main reason has more to do with the OL than Zach's knee. The main reason they're being excessively cautious with Zach has a lot more to do with the line in front of him rather than what's actually going on in that knee. They are abundantly aware that between the CBA limitations on "hitting" in training camp, limited reps with the starters as a group (specifically Duane Brown coming in late/George Fant dealing with various injuries), the Jets brass feel they will need a few games worth of reps before they actually gel as a unit. Putting a much less experienced Zach Wilson back there - with his knee - while the OL is trying to figure things out makes both the front office and coaching staff nervous, and that was before Duane Brown's shoulder injury popped up. Putting in Joe Flacco - who the Jets are confident will get everyone in position, help the offensive line with their protections, and get the ball out quickly? Their much more confident. As much as the doctors are forecasting when Zach will be "110%" healthy, the coaching staff and front office are projecting how much time it will take for the offensive line to properly gel. This also bothers me. If you don't trust your OL and think it will take 3 games for them to gel, you're signaling not only a lack of faith in the OL, but a lack of faith in your QB (again, babying). Why use the injury as an excuse to let the team improve around the QB? Just seems like a poor strategy... 
4. Leaving the door open. Everyone in the Jets facility knows Zach is the guy. There is no question about that. They also know that while Joe Flacco limits the offense in some ways and is not the future of the organization, he is capable of being a spot-starter and putting the Jets in position to win football games. He can put forth a performance like Mike White did against the Bengals if the right things click, but also provide more of a downfield element. If Joe comes in and plays off his rocker the way Mike White did for 5 quarters last year but for all 3 games and goes 3-0/2-1 in the process, they're going to give him the 4th game, 5th game, etc. But they are realistic that eventually he will likely fall back to earth and they will revert back to Wilson. This strategy bothers me a lot as well. If Zach is your starter, he is your starter. Period. Don't put a leash on it; make it clear that he will miss week 1, is questionable for week 2/3/4. Once he is able to practice fully, it's his team. That's it. Trying to "stash" him until someone in front of him flubs is such a baseball strategy. You drafted him to be your franchise QB and made him a week 1 starter last year. There's no going back on it. If the team felt he needed more time to develop, he shouldn't have been starter last year. That's it. They've gotten way too cute and a lot of it stems from how the staff views players and their expectations of them. This is where the "Shanahanian" aspect of the coaching staff bothers me... they want Zach to be the controller for LaFleur to execute each play the way he sees it... need to let Zach go in and figure things out on his own. It's the same thing that has held several other young and talented offensive players back in the scheme. Don't be so rigid; be willing to show flexibility in the scheme to help produce confidence in the player and results on the field, while teaching them to learn how to execute the offense the way its designed overtime. 

"while the OL is trying to figure things out makes both the front office and coaching staff nervous"

 

didn't they already do this last year? they somehow trying to right a past wrong?

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Thanks for sharing, if true it’s bad and this type of damage control already points to a dysfunctional franchise. As far as the facility knowing Zach is the guy…are they aware that most people outside of the facility feel he isn’t?

This is factually incorrect. 

Should be, are they aware a vocal minority on JetNation feel he isn't.  

Because that's the reality.

[jgb]

2 hours ago, BP said:

Isn’t it funny how all the negative things only happens to the jets when it counts ? what happened to the feel good positivity that was going on all off season and pre season? 
 

This is why they should be brutally honest and use reverse psychology. Because they really do suck until they prove otherwise. And I mean starting this Sunday, not February-august. So tired of this sh*t.

Would be nice instead of preserving face they just said BYU ain’t where he needs to be, Joe has earned a shot with his better off season. Best player plays. All Gas no breaks.

Instead they do this “preserve his confidence” shadow benching that’s only fooling those who want to be fooled.

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

There's a lot going on behind the scenes with this, and I'm not necessarily a fan of much of it... 

1. Coach-speak. Saleh wasn't totally lying when he said Zach had a "chance" to play week 1, but he did know Flacco was starting. The reality is, if this were a more important game and Zach was a more seasoned veteran, he would be suiting up. But he's young, still green, isn't 100% (how many players are?) and they feel like Flacco does give them a legitimate chance to win week 1. More on why that is later. 
2. Exercising excessive caution. While I do understand sitting him week 1 and always expected it, I am absolutely baffled by the decision to announce that he won't play until week 4 "the earliest". He can absolutely play sooner, but he's being babied, which I really don't like. Again, very rarely is a player 100%, let alone "110%". Part of being a pro is managing whatever you're going through and being aware enough to protect yourself without sacrificing performance. Zach has a balky knee. He needs to learn how to play through that while protecting it and without it hindering his play by much. Tacking on an extra 2 weeks to be "sure" is foolish... in this sport, you can be the healthiest player, you can know the gameplan inside-and-out, see the defense well but then hit the field and bomb or be out for the season one play later. Let the guy keep preparing as if he's going to play and make the call based on his ability to practice and be ready, not based on other factors. It doesn't matter how much the team has invested in him, you shouldn't put a predetermined timeline on when he "may" be ready to play. 
3. They'll never admit it publicly, but the main reason has more to do with the OL than Zach's knee. The main reason they're being excessively cautious with Zach has a lot more to do with the line in front of him rather than what's actually going on in that knee. They are abundantly aware that between the CBA limitations on "hitting" in training camp, limited reps with the starters as a group (specifically Duane Brown coming in late/George Fant dealing with various injuries), the Jets brass feel they will need a few games worth of reps before they actually gel as a unit. Putting a much less experienced Zach Wilson back there - with his knee - while the OL is trying to figure things out makes both the front office and coaching staff nervous, and that was before Duane Brown's shoulder injury popped up. Putting in Joe Flacco - who the Jets are confident will get everyone in position, help the offensive line with their protections, and get the ball out quickly? Their much more confident. As much as the doctors are forecasting when Zach will be "110%" healthy, the coaching staff and front office are projecting how much time it will take for the offensive line to properly gel. This also bothers me. If you don't trust your OL and think it will take 3 games for them to gel, you're signaling not only a lack of faith in the OL, but a lack of faith in your QB (again, babying). Why use the injury as an excuse to let the team improve around the QB? Just seems like a poor strategy... 
4. Leaving the door open. Everyone in the Jets facility knows Zach is the guy. There is no question about that. They also know that while Joe Flacco limits the offense in some ways and is not the future of the organization, he is capable of being a spot-starter and putting the Jets in position to win football games. He can put forth a performance like Mike White did against the Bengals if the right things click, but also provide more of a downfield element. If Joe comes in and plays off his rocker the way Mike White did for 5 quarters last year but for all 3 games and goes 3-0/2-1 in the process, they're going to give him the 4th game, 5th game, etc. But they are realistic that eventually he will likely fall back to earth and they will revert back to Wilson. This strategy bothers me a lot as well. If Zach is your starter, he is your starter. Period. Don't put a leash on it; make it clear that he will miss week 1, is questionable for week 2/3/4. Once he is able to practice fully, it's his team. That's it. Trying to "stash" him until someone in front of him flubs is such a baseball strategy. You drafted him to be your franchise QB and made him a week 1 starter last year. There's no going back on it. If the team felt he needed more time to develop, he shouldn't have been starter last year. That's it. They've gotten way too cute and a lot of it stems from how the staff views players and their expectations of them. This is where the "Shanahanian" aspect of the coaching staff bothers me... they want Zach to be the controller for LaFleur to execute each play the way he sees it... need to let Zach go in and figure things out on his own. It's the same thing that has held several other young and talented offensive players back in the scheme. Don't be so rigid; be willing to show flexibility in the scheme to help produce confidence in the player and results on the field, while teaching them to learn how to execute the offense the way its designed overtime. 

Thank you so much.  Very interesting.  Two questions for you...

1) Is this based on inside information? (I know you're usually basing everything on that) just wanted to verify..

2) Have you seen or heard any indication whatsoever that Zach or his people are the ones pushing for him not to play?  Or are you seeing Zach wanting to play?

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This is factually incorrect. 

Should be, are they aware a vocal minority on JetNation feel he isn't.  

Because that's the reality.

Who still believes in Wilson? Orlovsky lol?

[Mogglez]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

There's a lot going on behind the scenes with this, and I'm not necessarily a fan of much of it... 

1. Coach-speak. Saleh wasn't totally lying when he said Zach had a "chance" to play week 1, but he did know Flacco was starting. The reality is, if this were a more important game and Zach was a more seasoned veteran, he would be suiting up. But he's young, still green, isn't 100% (how many players are?) and they feel like Flacco does give them a legitimate chance to win week 1. More on why that is later. 
2. Exercising excessive caution. While I do understand sitting him week 1 and always expected it, I am absolutely baffled by the decision to announce that he won't play until week 4 "the earliest". He can absolutely play sooner, but he's being babied, which I really don't like. Again, very rarely is a player 100%, let alone "110%". Part of being a pro is managing whatever you're going through and being aware enough to protect yourself without sacrificing performance. Zach has a balky knee. He needs to learn how to play through that while protecting it and without it hindering his play by much. Tacking on an extra 2 weeks to be "sure" is foolish... in this sport, you can be the healthiest player, you can know the gameplan inside-and-out, see the defense well but then hit the field and bomb or be out for the season one play later. Let the guy keep preparing as if he's going to play and make the call based on his ability to practice and be ready, not based on other factors. It doesn't matter how much the team has invested in him, you shouldn't put a predetermined timeline on when he "may" be ready to play. 
3. They'll never admit it publicly, but the main reason has more to do with the OL than Zach's knee. The main reason they're being excessively cautious with Zach has a lot more to do with the line in front of him rather than what's actually going on in that knee. They are abundantly aware that between the CBA limitations on "hitting" in training camp, limited reps with the starters as a group (specifically Duane Brown coming in late/George Fant dealing with various injuries), the Jets brass feel they will need a few games worth of reps before they actually gel as a unit. Putting a much less experienced Zach Wilson back there - with his knee - while the OL is trying to figure things out makes both the front office and coaching staff nervous, and that was before Duane Brown's shoulder injury popped up. Putting in Joe Flacco - who the Jets are confident will get everyone in position, help the offensive line with their protections, and get the ball out quickly? Their much more confident. As much as the doctors are forecasting when Zach will be "110%" healthy, the coaching staff and front office are projecting how much time it will take for the offensive line to properly gel. This also bothers me. If you don't trust your OL and think it will take 3 games for them to gel, you're signaling not only a lack of faith in the OL, but a lack of faith in your QB (again, babying). Why use the injury as an excuse to let the team improve around the QB? Just seems like a poor strategy... 
4. Leaving the door open. Everyone in the Jets facility knows Zach is the guy. There is no question about that. They also know that while Joe Flacco limits the offense in some ways and is not the future of the organization, he is capable of being a spot-starter and putting the Jets in position to win football games. He can put forth a performance like Mike White did against the Bengals if the right things click, but also provide more of a downfield element. If Joe comes in and plays off his rocker the way Mike White did for 5 quarters last year but for all 3 games and goes 3-0/2-1 in the process, they're going to give him the 4th game, 5th game, etc. But they are realistic that eventually he will likely fall back to earth and they will revert back to Wilson. This strategy bothers me a lot as well. If Zach is your starter, he is your starter. Period. Don't put a leash on it; make it clear that he will miss week 1, is questionable for week 2/3/4. Once he is able to practice fully, it's his team. That's it. Trying to "stash" him until someone in front of him flubs is such a baseball strategy. You drafted him to be your franchise QB and made him a week 1 starter last year. There's no going back on it. If the team felt he needed more time to develop, he shouldn't have been starter last year. That's it. They've gotten way too cute and a lot of it stems from how the staff views players and their expectations of them. This is where the "Shanahanian" aspect of the coaching staff bothers me... they want Zach to be the controller for LaFleur to execute each play the way he sees it... need to let Zach go in and figure things out on his own. It's the same thing that has held several other young and talented offensive players back in the scheme. Don't be so rigid; be willing to show flexibility in the scheme to help produce confidence in the player and results on the field, while teaching them to learn how to execute the offense the way its designed overtime. 

Thanks for this homie, cannot agree more with your feelings.  I tried subtly relaying point number 1 yesterday but was told that it was illogical.  The Jets are bungling this one, IMO.

[GangGreened]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This is factually incorrect. 

Should be, are they aware a vocal minority on JetNation feel he isn't.  

Because that's the reality.

I don’t think I’ve met a single football fan outside of a portion of the Jets fan base that thinks Zach Wilson will be even remotely good. He’s pretty much already written off.

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

Would be nice instead of preserving face they just said BYU ain’t where he needs to be, Joe has earned a shot with his better off season. Best player players. All Gas no breaks.

Instead they do this “preserve his confidence” shadow benching that’s only fooling those who want to be fooled.

You know.  I agree with this.  

If they really felt he just wasn't ready, then that's what they should say.  He'll get his shot to prove himself eventually.

I'm not sure that's the case - as much as what he's saying is they're playing this with an abundance of caution - probably overly so....but I get your point. and agree.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You know.  I agree with this.  

If they really felt he just wasn't ready, then that's what they should say.  He'll get his shot to prove himself eventually.

I'm not sure that's the case - as much as what he's saying is they're playing this with an abundance of caution - probably overly so....but I get your point. and agree.

Thanks. If it wasn’t as I suspect, he would be week-to-week. Instead it’s the exact number of games to justify not IR’ing him so they can keep working him in practice. I would not be surprised if they are putting out trade feelers, honestly.
 

[Augustiniak]

7 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

"while the OL is trying to figure things out makes both the front office and coaching staff nervous"

 

didn't they already do this last year? they somehow trying to right a past wrong?

They know the OL sucks now, and the last thing they want is wilson running around like a scared headless chicken on that knee vs the ravens.  

[Mogglez]

6 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Who still believes in Wilson? Orlovsky lol?

Believe it or not, this forum or some random podcast is not indicative of the organizational or league wide belief in Wilson.  Whether or not those beliefs will be proven right or wrong is up for Wilson to decide.

[Mogglez]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

Thanks. If it wasn’t as I suspect, he would be week-to-week. Instead it’s the exact number of games to justify not IR’ing him so they can keep working him in practice. I would not be surprised if they are putting out trade feelers, honestly.
 

I don’t share much nowadays, but I can assure you that they are not putting out trade feelers. 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

Believe it or not, this forum or some random podcast is not indicative of the organizational or league wide belief in Wilson.

Bad rookie year and two knee injuries. It’s hard to be in, considering his pedigree.

[Mogglez]

Just now, Matt39 said:

Bad rookie year and two knee injuries. It’s hard to be in, considering his pedigree.

I get it.  I made a late edit to clarify but those beliefs are up to Wilson to justify.  Time will tell.

[SickJetFan]

5 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

They know the OL sucks now, and the last thing they want is wilson running around like a scared headless chicken on that knee vs the ravens.  

how do they know that? and not last year?  They had Rotten line (pun intended)  - knee is excuse for ******* up royally last season too

[football guy]

6 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Thanks for this homie, cannot agree more with your feelings.  I tried subtly relaying point number 1 yesterday but was told that it was illogical.  The Jets are bungling this one, IMO.

The right response was so simple: "Zach will play when he's healthy enough to play.  While he may be able to play this week if it were a playoff game, we have a long season ahead of us.  We would love to see Joe go out and have tons of success while in the starting lineup and we expect that of him but respectfully Zach is our QB when he's ready to go and we expect him to have success as well. 

[INSERT INEVITABLE FOLLOW-UP QUESTION RE: FLACCO OUT-PERFORMING ZACH] There's no competition between Zach and Joe. We understand that Joe could have more success in spots than Zach can today given his experience level, but Zach is our starter.  MJ can still beat current NBA players in a game of one-on-one, but that's not sustainable. Zach is our QB today, tomorrow, and hopefully for the next 10+ years. 

[FidelioJet]

6 minutes ago, jgb said:

Thanks. If it wasn’t as I suspect, he would be week-to-week. Instead it’s the exact number of games to justify not IR’ing him so they can keep working him in practice. I would not be surprised if they are putting out trade feelers, honestly.
 

I think the point about the OL just not being ready might the most relevant here.  

They did this to him last year. To start the last year the OL was an absolute mess.  They settled in a few weeks into the season...but it was tough for a rookie to handle that.  I suspect if they had last year to do over, Zach sits the first half a year.

They may very well have looked at this injury as a blessing in disguise and said let's not risk Wilson with this OL until they feel it's ready.

So, I guess - what I'm saying is - I agree with you here.  It's more about protecting Wilson than anything else...and that's not really a good sign for anyone involved.  

[Mogglez]

1 minute ago, football guy said:

The right response was so simple: "Zach will play when he's healthy enough to play.  While he may be able to play this week if it were a playoff game, we have a long season ahead of us.  We would love to see Joe go out and have tons of success while in the starting lineup and we expect that of him but respectfully Zach is our QB when he's ready to go and we expect him to have success as well. 

[INSERT INEVITABLE FOLLOW-UP QUESTION RE: FLACCO OUT-PERFORMING ZACH] There's no competition between Zach and Joe. We understand that Joe could have more success in spots than Zach can today given his experience level, but Zach is our starter.  MJ can still beat current NBA players in a game of one-on-one, but that's not sustainable. Zach is our QB today, tomorrow, and hopefully for the next 10+ years. 

Could not have said it better myself.  Saleh even kind of said this in another presser, but his delivery on it then, and since, has been awful.  The whole organization needs a refresher on how to handle situations with the media.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Man, based on what Football Guy is saying here, I have even less confidence in Saleh in particular. Not to have Flacco start week 1, I think that's fine. But to announce he's out until week 4? Not only is that weak, it creates a huge distraction for no reason to have handled it in this asinine way. Between how he's handling this and the Becton injury, dude needs to keep his mouth shut about injuries period.

[Dunnie]

I think the point about the OL just not being ready might the most relevant here.  
They did this to him last year. To start the last year the OL was an absolute mess.  They settled in a few weeks into the season...but it was tough for a rookie to handle that.  I suspect if they had last year to do over, Zach sits the first half a year.
They may very well have looked at this injury as a blessing in disguise and said let's not risk Wilson with this OL until they feel it's ready.
So, I guess - what I'm saying is - I agree with you here.  It's more about protecting Wilson than anything else...and that's not really a good sign for anyone involved.  

OL is decimated, Joe was clearly better this summer, Zach may need to sit and watch while the OL gets healthy ... this sh*t ass front office has misplayed their hand since day 1.



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[SickJetFan]

2 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Man, based on what Football Guy is saying here, I have even less confidence in Saleh in particular. Not to have Flacco start week 1, I think that's fine. But to announce he's out until week 4? Not only is that weak, it creates a huge distraction for no reason to have handled it in this asinine way. Between how he's handling this and the Becton injury, dude needs to keep his mouth shut about injuries period.

its not just what he says -even if he said nothing he was going to do this anyway...so it wasnt just a slip of the lip but rather questionable decision making exposed.

[SickJetFan]

2 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

OL is decimated, Joe was clearly better this summer, Zach may need to sit and watch while the OL gets healthy ... this sh*t ass front office has misplayed their hand since day 1.



Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
 

Even going into last season Becton was injured most offseason then got beat like a drum, they had a rookie AVT who they must have known was going to take lumps, Roten 5th/6th rounder out of a starting job right now, and Fant who at the time was coming off so/so year at best

wasnt exactly inspiring confidence

but really what team doesnt have OL issues are we to wait until we have the best in league or what is the benchmark here as I am kinda confused.

[Mogglez]

8 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Man, based on what Football Guy is saying here, I have even less confidence in Saleh in particular. Not to have Flacco start week 1, I think that's fine. But to announce he's out until week 4? Not only is that weak, it creates a huge distraction for no reason to have handled it in this asinine way. Between how he's handling this and the Becton injury, dude needs to keep his mouth shut about injuries period.

As a supporter of Saleh, I will admit his handling of things all off-season has given me more pause, regarding him, than I expected.

[FidelioJet]

8 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

OL is decimated, Joe was clearly better this summer, Zach may need to sit and watch while the OL gets healthy ... this sh*t ass front office has misplayed their hand since day 1.



Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
 

The bolded is incorrect.  

Zach proved himself to be the better QB.  

I will continue to post this tweet...

 

[football guy]

16 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

"while the OL is trying to figure things out makes both the front office and coaching staff nervous"

 

didn't they already do this last year? they somehow trying to right a past wrong?

They feel the OL is much better today than it was last year. What they don't have confidence in is their readiness, their chemistry. Last year the OL played well later in the season when Fant-AVT-CMG-LDT/GVR-Moses were finally clicking and on the same page who was supposed to be where/do what on a given play. Now, they have Fant and AVT flipping to the right side plus a new LT-LG combo, not to mention both the LT and RT have had limited "live" reps with their counterparts on the starting line due to injury/late signing. While most OLs don't experience so much turnover, the "OL not being prepared" narrative at the start of the season is not something going away... every OL deals with issues because of the lack of "real" reps for OL in training camp and preseason.  

14 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Thank you so much.  Very interesting.  Two questions for you...

1) Is this based on inside information? (I know you're usually basing everything on that) just wanted to verify..

2) Have you seen or heard any indication whatsoever that Zach or his people are the ones pushing for him not to play?  Or are you seeing Zach wanting to play?

1. Yes- it's perspectives from people who either work for the Jets and those close to them, plus my opinions mixed in. 
2. Zach wants to play but is trusting the process. His docs and the team docs agree on the timeline for when he'll be "100%" recovered, but the team is making the decision for when he's actually going to play. If he were a top flight veteran QB, he's probably playing even if not 100%. It's not like the docs are saying "he can play week 4", the team is determining that while considering all factors. He's a team player but I believe he'll begin to get frustrated if he's not in there by week 4. 

[Dunnie]

1. If he were a top flight veteran QB, he's probably playing even if not 100%. It's not like the docs are saying "he can play week 4", the team is determining that while considering all factors. He's a team player but I believe he'll begin to get frustrated if he's not in there by week 4. 

This.



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[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, football guy said:

They feel the OL is much better today than it was last year. What they don't have confidence in is their readiness, their chemistry. Last year the OL played well later in the season when Fant-AVT-CMG-LDT/GVR-Moses were finally clicking and on the same page who was supposed to be where/do what on a given play. Now, they have Fant and AVT flipping to the right side plus a new LT-LG combo, not to mention both the LT and RT have had limited "live" reps with their counterparts on the starting line due to injury/late signing. While most OLs don't experience so much turnover, the "OL not being prepared" narrative at the start of the season is not something going away... every OL deals with issues because of the lack of "real" reps for OL in training camp and preseason.  

1. Yes- it's perspectives from people who either work for the Jets and those close to them, plus my opinions mixed in. 
2. Zach wants to play but is trusting the process. His docs and the team docs agree on the timeline for when he'll be "100%" recovered, but the team is making the decision for when he's actually going to play. If he were a top flight veteran QB, he's probably playing even if not 100%. It's not like the docs are saying "he can play week 4", the team is determining that while considering all factors. He's a team player but I believe he'll begin to get frustrated if he's not in there by week 4. 

This is the most productive and insightful discussions we've had around here in a long time.

Thanks you!!!!

[Jets Voice of Reason]

2 minutes ago, football guy said:

They feel the OL is much better today than it was last year. What they don't have confidence in is their readiness, their chemistry. Last year the OL played well later in the season when Fant-AVT-CMG-LDT/GVR-Moses were finally clicking and on the same page who was supposed to be where/do what on a given play. Now, they have Fant and AVT flipping to the right side plus a new LT-LG combo, not to mention both the LT and RT have had limited "live" reps with their counterparts on the starting line due to injury/late signing. While most OLs don't experience so much turnover, the "OL not being prepared" narrative at the start of the season is not something going away... every OL deals with issues because of the lack of "real" reps for OL in training camp and preseason.  

1. Yes- it's perspectives from people who either work for the Jets and those close to them, plus my opinions mixed in. 
2. Zach wants to play but is trusting the process. His docs and the team docs agree on the timeline for when he'll be "100%" recovered, but the team is making the decision for when he's actually going to play. If he were a top flight veteran QB, he's probably playing even if not 100%. It's not like the docs are saying "he can play week 4", the team is determining that while considering all factors. He's a team player but I believe he'll begin to get frustrated if he's not in there by week 4. 

To bemoan the lack of reps that the OL has together and also to not give starters more reps in practice or preseason seems pretty bad, no?