Is it always this hard to break the cycle?

[varjet]

The Jets right now have a critical problem with their medical staff.  No player is going to listen to what the doctors say regarding their availability to play or not.  The players will get their own views.  The Jets completely botched Becton (should have had proper surgery and rehab) and tried to bring Wilson back too quickly.  It is not pretty. 

[HighPitch]

1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

You wanted JD 

Johnson gave you JD

You wanted JD to hire the coach

Johnson let JD hire the coach

You wanted good facility’s 

Johnson built a state of the art facility in Floram Park in 2010

You wanted Johnson out of football operations 

Johnson goes to practice and that’s about it

Sorry you can’t blame the Johnson’s anymore 

Well said.

the most unfounded theory in jets land is this one about ownership meddling. There is zero evidence of that and quite frankly you have provided ample evidence to support the contrary.

The jets suck for a variety of reasons. Horrible drafting being #1. The inability to lure stars is #2. Then come mediocre coaching. Finally, bad luck.

we are going to go into a good cycle right now and these conversations will shift to “all we do is squeeze into the playoffs as a wildcard waaahhhh” type stuff

 

and ill take it

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I disagree that Mangini had to go, but don't disagree that there was nothing wrong with Rex hire. Owners firing HC's inst meddling, but if the reasons are becuasse the HC objects to owner meddling, its a problem, which is exactly what we are dealing with

Agree.  But that’s not why Mangini was fired.  

[jgb]

Gotta hit on a QB in today’s NFL to experience a turnaround which is why I favor taking multiple swings in parallel (draft, trade, FA) until you get on base.

[Biggs]

You’re confusing naturally occurring cycles with a death spiral.   

[TBJ]

Jets need a dragon slayer.

[CSNY]

13 hours ago, varjet said:

The Jets right now have a critical problem with their medical staff.  No player is going to listen to what the doctors say regarding their availability to play or not.  The players will get their own views.  The Jets completely botched Becton (should have had proper surgery and rehab) and tried to bring Wilson back too quickly.  It is not pretty. 

Can’t entirely blame Medical staff for mediocrity but I don’t know who to cite for what seems to be a total incompetent staff that can’t diagnose a freaking hangnail correctly  Between Osemele, Becton Wilson they are just horrible 

Hell this is NYC where you have some of the most world renowned doctors in any field right here and it is mind boggling that the Jets can’t get this right. 
Hell, The Johnson’s even have a hospital named after them which based on who they hire for the team I would never ever got to for any type of surgery unless I want to get wheeled out of there feet first 

[neckdemon]

20 hours ago, WowOhWow said:

I'm amazed at how difficult it's been for the Jets, in a league built for parity, to break the cycle of putrid football they've delivered over the years.

I understand how rancid our prior GMs have been but it seems other crappy franchises seem to break through a lot easier than the Jets.

When you think of the comedy of errors that have happened since JD took over it's unreal.  We've had death (very sad), crazy injury...and one thing after the next.

The weight of the crap this team carries around must be such an anchor that it's going to take a herculean personality to break us free.  Unreal.

 

took the bills almost 20 years

[Flea Flicking Frank]

9 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Agree.  But that’s not why Mangini was fired.  

Im not so sure about that, and Im not saying Mangini was some great coach, but he was a very young guy who could have learned more on the job. He built a very strong roster that was the core of what Rex took to two AFCC games. I read that on multiple occasions Mangini told Woody to butt out which was what ultimately turned Woody on Mangini. 

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Im not so sure about that, and Im not saying Mangini was some great coach, but he was a very young guy who could have learned more on the job. He built a very strong roster that was the core of what Rex took to two AFCC games. I read that on multiple occasions Mangini told Woody to butt out which was what ultimately turned Woody on Mangini. 

He was fired because he had the entire building hating him, because he treated the owner like an employee.  

[Matt39]

14 hours ago, HighPitch said:

Well said.

the most unfounded theory in jets land is this one about ownership meddling. There is zero evidence of that and quite frankly you have provided ample evidence to support the contrary.

The jets suck for a variety of reasons. Horrible drafting being #1. The inability to lure stars is #2. Then come mediocre coaching. Finally, bad luck.

we are going to go into a good cycle right now and these conversations will shift to “all we do is squeeze into the playoffs as a wildcard waaahhhh” type stuff

 

and ill take it

bro come on. Go back and watch the Jets clips from the draft. Woody is front and center. Didn't he pull the trigger on the trade up for JJ? Hell he spoiled the Gardner pick lol. He's at every practice. The guy is involved in football decisions. He put his brother in charge. We can go on...

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

He was fired because he had the entire building hating him, because he treated the owner like an employee.  

if the know nothing owner was meddling in football operations, as he was, he deserved to be treated like an employee. Is the priority winning football games or playing with a toy? You don't need to answer that, the results of the Jets answer it

[Anthony Jet]

17 hours ago, HighPitch said:

Well said.

the most unfounded theory in jets land is this one about ownership meddling. There is zero evidence of that and quite frankly you have provided ample evidence to support the contrary.

The jets suck for a variety of reasons. Horrible drafting being #1. The inability to lure stars is #2. Then come mediocre coaching. Finally, bad luck.

we are going to go into a good cycle right now and these conversations will shift to “all we do is squeeze into the playoffs as a wildcard waaahhhh” type stuff

 

and ill take it

Ownership is definitely a big part of it 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

if the know nothing owner was meddling in football operations, as he was, he deserved to be treated like an employee. Is the priority winning football games or playing with a toy? You don't need to answer that, the results of the Jets answer it

Yeah, that’s the way things work.  The guy who signs everyone’s checks should be treated as an employee.  Those are the guys with lifetime employment. 
Now when has Mangini been a winner that can shlt on players, coaches and his owner?  How about when he tossed Klecko out of practice, wouldn’t let ex players at practices?  Who the F did he think he was?  Mangini was his own worst enemy.  It’s why he was dumped here, in Cleveland and couldn’t get another job.

[SouthernJet]

On 9/9/2022 at 10:53 AM, WowOhWow said:

I'm amazed at how difficult it's been for the Jets, in a league built for parity, to break the cycle of putrid football they've delivered over the years.

I understand how rancid our prior GMs have been but it seems other crappy franchises seem to break through a lot easier than the Jets.

When you think of the comedy of errors that have happened since JD took over it's unreal.  We've had death (very sad), crazy injury...and one thing after the next.

The weight of the crap this team carries around must be such an anchor that it's going to take a herculean personality to break us free.  Unreal.

 

sadly with the Jets the rabbit never died its on life support

[HighPitch]

11 hours ago, Matt39 said:

bro come on. Go back and watch the Jets clips from the draft. Woody is front and center. Didn't he pull the trigger on the trade up for JJ? Hell he spoiled the Gardner pick lol. He's at every practice. The guy is involved in football decisions. He put his brother in charge. We can go on...

Dude lots of owners are in the draft room and visit practice that is not proof

[Jet hustle]

On 9/9/2022 at 2:18 PM, dbatesman said:

What’s insane is that we can’t even find an average quarterback. Clemens, Sanchez, Geno, Hackenberg, Darnold, Wilson. Six top-51 picks, five different GM/HC combos, and not only are none of them elite, none of them are even, like, Baker Mayfield or Andy Dalton. They’re all dogsh*t terrible. It’s uncanny.

Uncanny IS THE perfect word 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

9 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah, that’s the way things work.  The guy who signs everyone’s checks should be treated as an employee.  Those are the guys with lifetime employment. 
Now when has Mangini been a winner that can shlt on players, coaches and his owner?  How about when he tossed Klecko out of practice, wouldn’t let ex players at practices?  Who the F did he think he was?  Mangini was his own worst enemy.  It’s why he was dumped here, in Cleveland and couldn’t get another job.

Mangini was blackballed from the league for what he did with Bellicheck, the guy should be in the NFL. If you don't see how attrocious of an owner Woody is, I can't help you.

[Matt39]

21 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Mangini was blackballed from the league for what he did with Bellicheck, the guy should be in the NFL. If you don't see how attrocious of an owner Woody is, I can't help you.

Woody is the reason the Jets are a blimp explosion. We’re on the same page. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

13 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Woody is the reason the Jets are a blimp explosion. We’re on the same page. 

I don't see how anyone who has followed this team doesnt see that. Its unfortunately his right as the owner, but the guy hires the wrong people for the wrong reasons. We spend so much time arguing about Sanchez, Geno, Darnold, Fitz, Zach Wilson, Rex Ryan, Mangini, Saleh, but the real problem is Woody. Barring him either hiring good poeple and letting them do their job, or getting really lucky, we will continue to suck and put the blame on the wrong people.

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

On 9/9/2022 at 5:42 PM, HighPitch said:

Well said.

the most unfounded theory in jets land is this one about ownership meddling. There is zero evidence of that and quite frankly you have provided ample evidence to support the contrary.

The jets suck for a variety of reasons. Horrible drafting being #1. The inability to lure stars is #2. Then come mediocre coaching. Finally, bad luck.

we are going to go into a good cycle right now and these conversations will shift to “all we do is squeeze into the playoffs as a wildcard waaahhhh” type stuff

 

and ill take it

I mean just off the top of my head trading for Tebow was all woody.  he also wanted to trade away revis. And I t was also woody that wanted to bring revis back. Lol. 

and here’s a super quick google search proving it ? 

 

 

 

[naturalscience]

On 9/9/2022 at 5:01 PM, Jet9 said:

A fish rots from the head down. 

 

Any of you ever have the unfortunate experience of working for a bad company? And I'm not talking about Paul Rodgers. What was the one consistent factor? Usually a sh*tty and/or clueless owner. 

Not me. Worked for some sh*t owners but they were never as bad as the scumbag corporate ghoul supervisors who'd push their own mother down a well so they could raise a production number a basis point. You know good old corporate capitalist greed. Clueless owner no where in sight. Just run of the mill greedy pieces of sh1t pushing exceptionalism. I watched one of them drive past a house on fire. No emergency responders there yet and refuse to stop and call 911. Gotta get the profit!!!!

[BRONX DUDE]

3 hours ago, Jet hustle said:

Uncanny IS THE perfect word 

un·can·ny

 

eerie · unnatural · preternatural · supernatural · unearthly · otherworldly · unreal · ghostly · mysterious · strange · abnormal · odd · curious · queer · weird · bizarre · freakish · eldritch · striking · remarkable · extraordinary · out of the ordinary · 

 

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Mangini was blackballed from the league for what he did with Bellicheck, the guy should be in the NFL. If you don't see how attrocious of an owner Woody is, I can't help you.

Lol, sure he was.  Because owners won’t hire a HC who could help them win.  Because they love Belichick more than winning games?  
Woody being atrocious or not had nothing to do with firing Mangini.  Mangini made his own grave.  And I don’t need your help

[Jet9]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Lol, sure he was.  Because owners won’t hire a HC who could help them win.  Because they love Belichick more than winning games?  
Woody being atrocious or not had nothing to do with firing Mangini.  Mangini made his own grave.  And I don’t need your help

Neil Smith won a Stanley Cup and was absolutely blackballed after he signed Sakic to an offer sheet. It's common practice now but it wasn't then. Not sure why this is so hard to believe. People are people. 

[TuscanyTile2]

On 9/10/2022 at 7:31 AM, neckdemon said:

took the bills almost 20 years

It's only going to take us 17, when Arch Manning gets here in 2027.

[TuscanyTile2]

In all seriousness, though, the one nice thing about watching today's game will be that we should finally start seeing the fruits of JD's labor.  Even though ZW isn't playing, we still get to watch Sauce, Breece, Clemons, Garrett Wilson, year 2 of Eli Moore, the TEs, Carl Lawson, the upgraded secondary, etc.  Win or lose, I would expect us to at least show some promise.

There's been a question about "the right way" to rebuild.  Do you start with the QB or do you start by building a team first and then trying to land the QB?  I think the Jets at least might at least finally have started filling out the roster.

[WowOhWow]

10 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

In all seriousness, though, the one nice thing about watching today's game will be that we should finally start seeing the fruits of JD's labor.  Even though ZW isn't playing, we still get to watch Sauce, Breece, Clemons, Garrett Wilson, year 2 of Eli Moore, the TEs, Carl Lawson, the upgraded secondary, etc.  Win or lose, I would expect us to at least show some promise.

There's been a question about "the right way" to rebuild.  Do you start with the QB or do you start by building a team first and then trying to land the QB?  I think the Jets at least might at least finally have started filling out the roster.

Great point. Am excited to see them play

[More Cowbell]

On 9/9/2022 at 10:53 AM, WowOhWow said:

I'm amazed at how difficult it's been for the Jets, in a league built for parity, to break the cycle of putrid football they've delivered over the years.

I understand how rancid our prior GMs have been but it seems other crappy franchises seem to break through a lot easier than the Jets.

When you think of the comedy of errors that have happened since JD took over it's unreal.  We've had death (very sad), crazy injury...and one thing after the next.

The weight of the crap this team carries around must be such an anchor that it's going to take a herculean personality to break us free.  Unreal.

 

In all honesty,  JD made a number of bets that didn't  payoff, at least not yet. Picking Becton was a risk. I knew that taking a man that large a position that demands athleticism is an injury risk. Big men like that aren't  supposed  to be quick and fluid and rely on their lower body. I was afraid if he ever got a serious knee injury, it could end him (thanks GVR). 

His next gamble was on Zach. Great arm talent playing against the weak sisters of college football for the better part and on top of it, a guy that looked like he was still in high-school.  I just didn't  see the same kind of player you normally see getting drafted that high. At least Darnold had a prototype QB body. 

There was also players like Ashtyn Davis, Perrine, among  others that were lesser gambles but they have not worked out to date. 

I will say with this most recent draft, JD took a number of blue-chip prospects so maybe he figured things out and the cycle is broken. Time will tell. 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

On 9/9/2022 at 5:30 PM, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Wilson not being spoonfed the job from game 1 and made to prove he’s ready for starters reps last year is my point. That was last year. This year it’s moot. 

He’s a high draft pick, he’s clearly going to start at some point so i’m not legit asking for them to trade for someone like Mayfield or something. Look at how the Steelers are handling trubisky and pickett. trubisky is clearly not an answer and he’s likely going to lose his job. But pickett isn’t just being handed the job because he’s a fresh draft pick. 

Yeah. If the Jets only had brought Trubisky in last season, they would be on their way to a successful season!  Mitch Trubisky is the key to success in the NFL.  His signing would have fixed all ills with this team, not only at QB, but OL, DL, coaching - everywhere!

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

12 hours ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Mangini was blackballed from the league for what he did with Bellicheck, the guy should be in the NFL. If you don't see how attrocious of an owner Woody is, I can't help you.

Mangini was hired by Cleveland days after the Jets fired him.  Doesn't sound like a blackball situation to me.  It had nothing to do with the horrendous job he did as coach of the Browns?  Or his micromanagement of every detail ? Or his poor relationship with the players he coaches?  He face planted with the Browns in 2009-10. That is why he isn't in the NFL.

[Sperm Edwards]

Jets' cycle is a little irregular, no doubt about it. Mrs. Sperm has informed me it's really not that unusual to skip a month, though, and from the Wilson+Brown timing that seems to be what's going on with them. They'll be right as rain in October. 

[jgb]

49 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Yeah. If the Jets only had brought Trubisky in last season, they would be on their way to a successful season!  Mitch Trubisky is the key to success in the NFL.  His signing would have fixed all ills with this team, not only at QB, but OL, DL, coaching - everywhere!

[Embrace the Suck]

Bad decision makers make bad decisions. Look at the constants. It's just that simple. Nothing deeper to look to.

[neckdemon]

2 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Yeah. If the Jets only had brought Trubisky in last season, they would be on their way to a successful season!  Mitch Trubisky is the key to success in the NFL.  His signing would have fixed all ills with this team, not only at QB, but OL, DL, coaching - everywhere!

he didn't say anything like this. actually he said the opposite....that trubisky isn't the solution but pickett wasn't just handed the job in spite of that, and has to earn it. unlike the milf hunter who was given the job and sucked at it. but......truthy be told, we could only hope wilson has a season like trubisky's in 2018