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Kind of amazing how quickly this place turned on Saleh (merged)


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10 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Rex Ryan was the smoke and mirrors era.  The team overachieved, never had a serious shot at winning anything and crumbled after the money ran dry after Tannys reckless spending.

We are in the process of building sustained success for a decade.

The Rex "wham bam thank you maam" era was fun, but was never going to last nor had the qb to ever be a legitimate threat.

You have to at least achieve some sort of success before you can sustain it.  Right now we are the worse team in the league and we seem to be sustaining that. We are hoping getting back the worse QB in the league from last year is going to change that. 

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6 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

You have to at least achieve some sort of success before you can sustain it.  Right now we are the worse team in the league and we seem to be sustaining that. We are hoping getting back the worse QB in the league from last year is going to change that. 

Patience my friend.  You heard Saleh.  Its bubbling under the surface.  And when it explodes, its going to be a beautiful thing to watch.  By midseason, that explosion will happen and the narrative will change.

We have the talent.  Its just going to take a bit longer for these young pups to mature.  And missing Zach threw a wrench into this whole thing.  Thats not an excuse.  That is a fact.

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37 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So why is a player (Zach) with a 2-4 week injury, and who the Coaches have said did not have a set-back health-wise, not playing in Week 1 (4 Weeks+2 Days), Week 2 (5 Weeks + 2 Days) or Week 3 (6 Weeks + 2 Days)?

Until the team answers that basic question, there will be "conspiracy theories" about the cause of Zach being held out.

Because from what the team has said right up to the day they sidelined him, he should have been on the field on Sunday.

It's a good question.  My guess - is it was a JD decision.  For the reasons that have been mentioned - just not Zach's call.  I've seen nothing from Zach to think he would make a decision like that.  If anything he's shown the opposite.

Moreover, all of the comments coming out of the Jets are it's their call.   Zach said he would play if it was up to him.  @football guy said it's an organizational decision.  Saleh said the same.

So sure, the organization can be lying, Zach can be lying, our one inside source here can be lying...I concede that point.

But based on the little history we have of Zach, the lack of leverage he has to make such a decision, what's coming from the organization - it would be the definition of a Conspiracy.  

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2 hours ago, Biggs said:

The Jets D were not on the field a long time.  The Ravens weren't driving the ball with any consistency.  They didn't run a lot of plays to score.  They made big plays on a couple of drives after making adjustments at halftime.  The Jets special teams gave them a short field and the hit quickly.    

The Jets O did nothing but this wasn't the typical case where the D was left on the field for a long time.   They Ravens weren't having long drives coupled with the Jets giving the ball up quick.  They both weren't moving the ball.  They got the big plays on our D and we abandoned the run way to soon.  

Cannot score all of 3 points in the 1st half think you're gonna win. Keeps coming back to a mindset that doesn't grasp how important scoring points are . Can't play from behind all day and then think you can play HeroBall in the 4th quarter with a popgun offense. 

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40 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Rex Ryan was the smoke and mirrors era.  The team overachieved, never had a serious shot at winning anything and crumbled after the money ran dry after Tannys reckless spending.

We are in the process of building sustained success for a decade.

The Rex "wham bam thank you maam" era was fun, but was never going to last nor had the qb to ever be a legitimate threat.

smoke and mirrors? you are nuts - the defense was lights out and if they overachieved per your comment that means Rex coached them up.

We had two fun runs as a team in 3 decades-the parcells team and the rex team.

when does this process for success turn into wins? the avg player lasts in the league 3.3 years which is  basically Joe's tenure already and we have no line and no qb and a defense that was terrible  last year and wont be any good this year. 

Even Adam Gase is laughing at us at this point

 

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48 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

We were relevant for 2 years, and then turned into the joke we have become now. This is like longing for an ex girlfriend that you had good sex with for a few months but eventually she cut your dick off in a meth induced rage and took all your money and are now homeless, and longing for the days of her sex.

we were a competitive team and a FUN team to watch-I would rather  have had the ex back then being stuck with a toothless fatty with nasty stds which is the equivalent of our current coach in your metaphor.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, kmnj said:

we were a competitive team and a FUN team to watch-I would rather  have had the ex back then being stuck with a toothless fatty with nasty stds which is the equivalent of our current coach in your metaphor.

 

 

if you brought rex back today, do you honestly think the results would be any different? Rex was in the right place at the right time, he had a veteran team built to play a solid 3-4 defense and run the ball with a great line. He did very well with it, and also had some tremendous luck. when that team slowly fell apart, much to his doing, the results were disasterous. Rex left the team far worse then when he took it,by a lot.

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This is not going to be a popular post but the only way this losing cycle is going to stop is giving Douglas and Saleh time to turn things around.  Another firing and starting over solves nothing.  Douglas took over a swamp and did the right thing by tearing all down.  The rebuild has started.  This year I would expect at least 6 or 7 wins and competitive games.  We've only played one game and how often have we seen that first game and week of the season as an outlier from the rest of the season? Lets wait at least till half way through this season before we melt down. It's not Saleh or Douglas's fault this franchise has been a loser for a decade. 

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2 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

if you brought rex back today, do you honestly think the results would be any different? Rex was in the right place at the right time, he had a veteran team built to play a solid 3-4 defense and run the ball with a great line. He did very well with it, and also had some tremendous luck. when that team slowly fell apart, much to his doing, the results were disasterous. Rex left the team far worse then when he took it,by a lot.

yes I do 100%

the team would play hard and be motivated

Rex would scheme a great defense  and his team would be fun to watch-nobody can dispute the players played hard for Rex and his defenses were feared. 

Rex didnt draft the players,  he coached them-the team being worse off had to do with the GM not Rex

I mean Adam freaking Gase won 7 wins with a team that was far inferior to the team we had last year 

our current coach is what his record says he is really really terrible.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

This is not going to be a popular post but the only way this losing cycle is going to stop is giving Douglas and Saleh time to turn things around.  Another firing and starting over solves nothing.  Douglas took over a swamp and did the right thing by tearing all down.  The rebuild has started.  This year I would expect at least 6 or 7 wins and competitive games.  We've only played one game and how often have we seen that first game and week of the season as an outlier from the rest of the season. Lets wait at least till half way through this season before we melt down. It's not Saleh or Douglas's fault this franchise has been a loser for a decade. 

I'm fine with Douglas staying.

But Saleh is hopeless.  Hire Sean Payton before somebody else does.

He's too young to be retired for life.  He'll be working somewhere next season.

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

What is it then? The worst statistical QB in the league last year-where many of his team's fan base have already turned on him (Judging by this site the FAR majority celebrate his failures) he simply doesn't have any ground to stand on to dictate if and when he plays.  Moreover, he's shown nothing AT ALL to say he would pull anything like this.

I realize a lot of people want that to be true - because it's just another reason to hate Zach Wilson - but honestly, it's ridiculous to really think that's what happened.

I’ve gotten flamed for bringing it up and I have no way of knowing if it’s true or not. But just knowing how the Johnsons have run this team, Wilson’s family being a major sponsor of the franchise you’d have to think could give him some leverage. Wilson comes from a big time family.

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3 minutes ago, kmnj said:

yes I do 100%

the team would play hard and be motivated

Rex would scheme a great defense  and his team would be fun to watch-nobody can dispute the players played hard for Rex and his defenses were feared. 

Rex didnt draft the players,  he coached them-the team being worse off had to do with the GM not Rex

I mean Adam freaking Gase won 7 wins with a team that was far inferior to the team we had last year 

our current coach is what his record says he is really really terrible.

 

 

Rex hired incompetent coordinators, and had zero discipline for his teams. The team he inherited was over disciplined from Mangini. As soon as that team was gone, we saw what kind of coach Rex was. For the record, I think Saleh is terrible, and maybe worse than Rex, but that doesnt make Rex good, it makes them both suck.

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Saleh is not the real problem. Yet. He may be annoying with the Cali-Coach platitudes and "servant" leadership style. But as HC he didn't set the roster, draft the QB, sign the FAs, per se. That's on JD.

The Defense, which Saleh is recognizedly more strategically involved with, performed well enough, came out and competed. Gave the Offense opportunities and momentum.

The Offense, did not. 

Neither did the Specials. Saleh ordered out a FG try twice from 45 yards. Saleh didn't miss one of those, or shank a 20 yard punt.

When you listen to the psst-game talk from Saleh, it was kind of CYA. He talked about missing those opportunities (the Offense) when they were given (by the Defense).

Of course he's the head coach and ultimately responsible but that isn't how many organizations function when they use synergies between roughly independent systems (Offense, Specials, Defense, GM, Training Room, Medical Staff, etc).

Right now, Saleh is more Cali-annoying than ineffective as a coach. It's the GM that put out this roster and all of the decisions made on that. It's the OC Lafleur that is in the weeds on the offense, responsible for the O performance. It's also the injuries that he is not responsible for. This isn't a homer call on Saleh. I have doubts about Cali-Coach. But right now, Saleh is the least of the problem. 

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13 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

This is not going to be a popular post but the only way this losing cycle is going to stop is giving Douglas and Saleh time to turn things around.  Another firing and starting over solves nothing.  Douglas took over a swamp and did the right thing by tearing all down.  The rebuild has started.  This year I would expect at least 6 or 7 wins and competitive games.  We've only played one game and how often have we seen that first game and week of the season as an outlier from the rest of the season. Lets wait at least till half way through this season before we melt down. It's not Saleh or Douglas's fault this franchise has been a loser for a decade. 

I would give Douglas at least 2 more years.  Saleh I believe is a lost cause.  I would have let him go last year and have Douglas hire a new HC.  I thought he was awful.  However if he shows any level of competence I agree stick with him.  I'm very suspect.  But there is something to the logic of giving him more rope.

I have been tired of the positive vibe thing since his days in SF.  Having said that if he really knows he's X's and O's and is a great teacher of young players and can outscheme the other HC in our division and confrence why would I want to get rid of him.   We are much better off if he is successful.  By successful wins games and coaches up players.

On the other hand if Douglas is bringing in A+ talent and Saleh can't coach them into A+ NFL players, the sooner he's gone the better.  

 

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16 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I’ve gotten flamed for bringing it up and I have no way of knowing if it’s true or not. But just knowing how the Johnsons have run this team, Wilson’s family being a major sponsor of the franchise you’d have to think could give him some leverage. Wilson comes from a big time family.

Honestly, and I'm not trying to be a dick about this, but I think that's the biggest conspiracy theory of them all.  Allowing sponsors to dictate personnel would be insane.

Only reason I could agree is Woody is a mess of an owner.

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Rex was a great motivator and a heck of a DC.... HE WAS TERRIBLE HC.... He had so many dumb personell penalties... bad time outs... bad decisions.. the team always played down to talent... Would lose EASY games... God you guys forget so much... this board was calling for his head after every loss.

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6 hours ago, derp said:

I will throw out that I think Taylor fell into an incredible situation, but he's due some heat soon. Big, simple clock management error that gave the Steelers extra time on the winning drive. And apparently when they go under center they pretty much only run the ball. Think the stat was shotgun 58 passes 18 runs, under center 2 passes 16 runs. That's a tendency going back to last year and just a super easy one for defenses to key in on.

He's a single game removed from the Super Bowl, think he's got some room on that leash before the heat begins.  lol

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7 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Honestly, and I'm not trying to be a dick about this, but I think that's the biggest conspiracy theory of them all.  Allowing sponsors to dictate personnel would be insane.

Only reason I could agree is Woody is a mess of an owner.

It’s Woody and money. Look at how the Knicks are run. It’s all favors.

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

It's a good question.  My guess - is it was a JD decision.  For the reasons that have been mentioned - just not Zach's call.  I've seen nothing from Zach to think he would make a decision like that.  If anything he's shown the opposite.

Moreover, all of the comments coming out of the Jets are it's their call.   Zach said he would play if it was up to him.  @football guy said it's an organizational decision.  Saleh said the same.

So sure, the organization can be lying, Zach can be lying, our one inside source here can be lying...I concede that point.

But based on the little history we have of Zach, the lack of leverage he has to make such a decision, what's coming from the organization - it would be the definition of a Conspiracy.  

So then why did the Organization make that decision.

I'm less interested in the "who made the call" and far more interested in the "why they made the call".

P.S. Organizations comments cannot and should not be trusted on their face without verification.  Organizations lie all the time, for a whole variety of reasons.  Protecting a player from criticism, not letting on the severity of an injury (the "Bellichek Special", lol), etc.

I also generally dismiss so-called "insiders".  If they were high enough to know, they're not talking about it on JN.  If they're not high enough to know, they're just engaging in slightly better informed office gossip.  JMO, from many years being in a spot "high enough to know", lol.

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1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Rex Ryan was the smoke and mirrors era.  

Rex Ryan is the all time franchise leader in playoff victories. 

The Jets have not been to the playoffs since that Era, the longest drought not only in the NFL but all major sport 

 

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2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Rex Ryan is the all time franchise leader in playoff victories. 

The Jets have not been to the playoffs since that Era, the longest drought not only in the NFL but all major sport 

 

So is Mark Sanchez as a QB, so theres that..... Actually, maybe Joe had more, not sure, but the point still stands on Sanchez

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4 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

So is Mark Sanchez as a QB, so theres that..... Actually, maybe Joe had more, not sure, but the point still stands on Sanchez

It's true and also a sad statement how much worse Zach Wilson is than Sanchez 

At least Sanchito was available. In 4 years he missed 2 games. 

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5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So then why did the Organization make that decision.

I'm less interested in the "who made the call" and far more interested in the "why they made the call".

P.S. Organizations comments cannot and should not be trusted on their face without verification.  Organizations lie all the time, for a whole variety of reasons.  Protecting a player from criticism, not letting on the severity of an injury (the "Bellichek Special", lol), etc.

I also generally dismiss so-called "insiders".  If they were high enough to know, they're not talking about it on JN.  If they're not high enough to know, they're just engaging in slightly better informed office gossip.  JMO, from many years being in a spot "high enough to know", lol.

I think the "Why" is probably two core reasons. 

1) The biggest reason is an over abundance of caution

2) I believe yours and many other position are correct.  The OL was not ready to protect a QB.  Which is also tied to the over abundance of caution.

I just do not believe for a second that it was Wilson demand.

As for don't trust the organization or inside sources, I don't disagree - but taking the position of Zach did this - would be the literal definition of conspiracy.  They would have to get all of these groups to lie - all to protect a person that is being overwhelming selfish and self serving.

The real point I'm getting at is there simply no evidence ZERO to say this is what happened but a pretty good amount and anecdotal evidence to support that it's not the case.

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