Generational Trevor?

[Shelbyblue]

Watched the Jacksonville/Commanders game replay. I don’t see anything Generational there, I see him and Zach on the same level, I thought having Peterson as a coach this kid would jump off the tape this game. I know it’s just one game and the whole team looked blah! , but I did not see that Wow factor, I saw a game manager at best .

[Guilhermezmc]

He's throwing the ball to 32 year old Marvin Jones.

Still take him over Zach

[CanadaSteve]

Just now, Guilhermezmc said:

He's throwing the ball to 32 year old Marvin Jones.

Still take him over Zach

'Generational' talents make the 32 year old Marvin Jones' of the world look like 25 year old Marvin Harrison's.  

 

[More Cowbell]

4 minutes ago, Shelbyblue said:

Watched the Jacksonville/Commanders game replay. I don’t see anything Generational there, I see him and Zach on the same level, I thought having Peterson as a coach this kid would jump off the tape this game. I know it’s just one game and the whole team looked blah! , but I did not see that Wow factor, I saw a game manager at best .

Yes, but he is actually played football this weekend. 

[David Harris]

I think Trevor is going to be great

I hope Zach will

[oatmeal]

He’s terrible and highly overrated 

accuracy is terrible 

makes Sam darnold like ints 

Lacks the ability to make consistent anticipation throws 

this kid was supposed to be generational

i can’t wait until football moves on from this “I know he sucked but look at these 2 plays from the game, we have to give him more time” mentality 

this is how you get stuck with the Sam darnold’s of the world 

[oatmeal]

3 minutes ago, David Harris said:

I think Trevor is going to be great

I hope Zach will

Trevor Lawrence and Zach Wilson:

[win4ever]

I don't think he's generational at all, he reminds me a ton of Darnold.  If you set plays up for him, he looks very good because the tools are all there.  Unfortunately, he gets fooled into bad passes.  The media just loves him, so they hype up everything.  There was a pre-season pass against the Steelers on a far hash out route, and the corner is sitting in zone.  He makes a great throw for the catch, but it was like an inch away from the CB (who jumped) intercepting or deflecting it.  A dangerous throw on a mediocre read.  The national media basically made it out to be like the second coming of Jesus with how amazed they were by the throw.  Don't get me wrong, it's a great throw, but a mediocre decision.  

If Wilson is healthy (and at this point who knows), I will take Wilson over Lawrence even after I was against Wilson pre-draft.  Wilson was a project pick (I think my pre-draft comp was Fitzpatrick/Jordan Love mix) but he made enough improvements last year while Lawrence didn't seem to do so, that I think he's a better prospect.  

[GreenFish]

None of the QBs from that class have stood out. Hopefully Zach can come back and make that leap. As it stands, that class looks epically bad.

[Green Ghost]

18 minutes ago, Shelbyblue said:

Watched the Jacksonville/Commanders game replay. I don’t see anything Generational there, I see him and Zach on the same level, I thought having Peterson as a coach this kid would jump off the tape this game. I know it’s just one game and the whole team looked blah! , but I did not see that Wow factor, I saw a game manager at best .

We’re 0-1 and we just found out Flacco is starting again this Sunday….

@Shelbyblue’s mind immediately goes to “I think I’ll start another one of those threads about Trevor Lawrence and that generational thing… yeh. That’s the ticket!”

[Sonny Werblin]

I yearn for the days that the finances did not dictate playing your rookie QB as a way of forced early development. I think most young QBs need a season as the back-up with a smattering of game action - maybe with a package of plays they are ready to execute -- before they are ready to take over the reigns. Too many of these guys are ruined by being thrown in the fire rather than developed at an orderly pace.

The question for guys like Darnold, who are handed a job and fail, is whether their athletic ability and arm talent will still be there when the light comes on. Just look at Geno Smith. He can still throw and run, but now he capitalizes on D mistakes and doesn't make bonehead plays. 

[Warfish]

He was never generational.

That is the most over-used term in prospect evaluation.

With that said, we'll see.  Same as with Zach.

[Warfish]

Just now, Sonny Werblin said:

I yearn for the days that the finances did not dictate playing your rookie QB as a way of forced early development.

They don't.

Fans just think they do.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

None of the '21 QBs looks great at this point.

Allen and Mahomes were passed on.  It never ends.

[GreenFish]

23 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

None of the '21 QBs looks great at this point.

Allen and Mahomes were passed on.  It never ends.

I’ll be checking out Trevor, Mills or Mac this weekend.

Last weekend, Lance and Fields looked bad. Fields, in particular, looked like Zach did last year in the early part of the season. The weather was a factor though.

Lance showed some promise though. I would hold off on calling him a bust. I could easily see him developing into a really good QB. He needs to get more consistent with his ball placement. But he seems to read the defense well.

[Sonny Werblin]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

They don't.

Fans just think they do.

Not fans. Most GMs (wrongly) think the cap constraints and cost of a QBs second contract requires playing your rookie first round QB from day 1, or at least as early in their rookie season as possible. So few QBs drafted in the first round do not start from game 1 of their rookie season. I think about 60 QBs were drafted in the first round since 2000. How many pretty much sat out their entire first year? Pennington, Mahomes, Aaron Rogers, Jordan Love.... anyone else? Heck even Christian Ponder, JP Loseman and Patrick Ramsey played a lot in their first year. Josh Rosen was made starter in week 3 (when he clearly was not ready). Brandon Weeden was made starter in Cleveland from day 1. 

I'm not sure of the exact number but it pretty much seem like 90% of the first round QBs are either named starter from day 1 or given the job after the season starts. And based on what we've all seen, it is pretty clear they are not given the job because they are ready. 

[Dcat]

41 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

None of the QBs from that class have stood out. Hopefully Zach can come back and make that leap. As it stands, that class looks epically bad.

Whenever the Jets have a top 3 draft pick, it has been a generationally bad QB pool, notwithstanding Josh Allen in 2017.  The Jets best "generational" opportunity was right there for the taking, but Parcells blew it with Peyton Manning.  One of the top 3 NY Jets mistakes ever.  Maybe #1.

[jetspenguin]

1 hour ago, Shelbyblue said:

Watched the Jacksonville/Commanders game replay. I don’t see anything Generational there, I see him and Zach on the same level, I thought having Peterson as a coach this kid would jump off the tape this game. I know it’s just one game and the whole team looked blah! , but I did not see that Wow factor, I saw a game manager at best .

a game manager........as he has always been......as I have always said

 

bust

[Sperm Edwards]

37 minutes ago, Warfish said:

He was never generational.

That is the most over-used term in prospect evaluation.

With that said, we'll see.  Same as with Zach.

Yeah well at least we don't have to live through the latest round of, "The Jets ruined yet another generational prospect."

• If a QB's drafted somewhere else & doesn't come close to expectations = bust
• If a QB's drafted here & doesn't come close to expectations (or hopes) = because Jets

Most of the time we have to wait until the player's also failed to produce for someone else for so many Jets fans to fully accept he just didn't have it.

We could've drafted Ryan Leaf & that would've been the Jets' fault he busted after being pick 1B after Peyton Manning.

Or imagine if Manginibaum were successful in trading plenty to move up from #27 (Mangold) to #9 for Matt Leinart like they wanted to. He'd have been another one the Jets ruined, because we wouldn't have given him the advantages that would've led to his success, like throwing to a duo on par with Fitzgerald & Bolden (plus no instant-replacement probowl center after cutting Mawae lol).

At least with Wilson it'll likely be more like a "we over-drafted a guy who was never gonna be" like with Clemens or Geno. (I honestly don't know which category Hackenberg falls into, given how many loved the pick & how long they defended it, but it does at least illustrate that just because the fans didn't get to see him in live action here after drafting him doesn't mean the coaches - even less than great ones - couldn't tell from practices).

[BigRy56]

Well, according to some NFL pundits... the Jaguars have loaded up around Trevor with a fantastic off-season and he will ascend into greatness shortly

[nycdan]

Oddly enough, the way things look right now, the best QB we have drafted in the last 20 years was Geno.

I'm not sure what to do with that...

 

[Warfish]

11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah well at least we don't have to live through the latest round of, "The Jets ruined yet another generational prospect."

• If a QB's drafted somewhere else & doesn't come close to expectations = bust
• If a QB's drafted here & doesn't come close to expectations (or hopes) = because Jets

Most of the time we have to wait until the player's also failed to produce for someone else for so many Jets fans to fully accept he just didn't have it.

We could've drafted Ryan Leaf & that would've been the Jets' fault he busted after being pick 1B after Peyton Manning.

Or imagine if Manginibaum were successful in trading plenty to move up from #27 (Mangold) to #9 for Matt Leinart like they wanted to. He'd have been another one the Jets ruined, because we wouldn't have given him the advantages that would've led to his success, like throwing to a duo on par with Fitzgerald & Bolden (plus no instant-replacement probowl center after cutting Mawae lol).

At least with Wilson it'll likely be more like a "we over-drafted a guy who was never gonna be" like with Clemens or Geno. (I honestly don't know which category Hackenberg falls into, given how many loved the pick & how long they defended it, but it does at least illustrate that just because the fans didn't get to see him in live action here after drafting him doesn't mean the coaches - even less than great ones - couldn't tell from practices).

The problem is we have consistently drafted busts.

-Kellen Clemens, 2006 2nd Round Pick - Bust

-Mark Sanchez, 2009 1st Round Pick - Bust (His teams had success, in spite of him mostly).

-Geno Smith, 2013 2nd Round Pick - Bust

-Christian Hackenberg, 2016 2nd Round Pick - Bust

-Sam Darnold, 2018 1st Round Pick - Bust

-Zach Wilson, 2021 1st Round Pick - Bust-like First Season, Future TBD

And there are several later round picks throughout this period as well, but "bust" isn;t the right term for 4th or 6th round QB's IMO.

The last real non-bust was Chad Pennington, 2000 1st Round Pick.  And while he's not a bust, he was still a huge disappointment because of his fragility/inability to stay healthy.

When your franchise keep trying over and over to find a QB, and keeps drafting busts, you're going to get a reputation.

Of course, in truth all the variables are different each time, different QB's, different GM's, different Coaches, different players around the busts.

But still....nothing but busts for near on to 20 years.

So yeah, it's a little unfair, but only a little.

[rillo]

From the little that I watched from him on Sunday, he seems to have "happy feet" in the pocket. Feels like he's panicking too much. 

[Matt39]

Still passes the eye test more than anyone in the class other than Mills who no one expected to be good. 

[Sperm Edwards]

40 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The problem is we have consistently drafted busts.

-Kellen Clemens, 2006 2nd Round Pick - Bust

-Mark Sanchez, 2009 1st Round Pick - Bust (His teams had success, in spite of him mostly).

-Geno Smith, 2013 2nd Round Pick - Bust

-Christian Hackenberg, 2016 2nd Round Pick - Bust

-Sam Darnold, 2018 1st Round Pick - Bust

-Zach Wilson, 2021 1st Round Pick - Bust-like First Season, Future TBD

And there are several later round picks throughout this period as well, but "bust" isn;t the right term for 4th or 6th round QB's IMO.

The last real non-bust was Chad Pennington, 2000 1st Round Pick.  And while he's not a bust, he was still a huge disappointment because of his fragility/inability to stay healthy.

When your franchise keep trying over and over to find a QB, and keeps drafting busts, you're going to get a reputation.

Of course, in truth all the variables are different each time, different QB's, different GM's, different Coaches, different players around the busts.

But still....nothing but busts for near on to 20 years.

So yeah, it's a little unfair, but only a little.

Could've stopped after your first sentence (though I'm the wrong person to dish out that criticism). 

My point is more that the team gets vilified for failing to develop guys who'd have been busts anyway. That's why I brought up others like Leinart. People still throw out the idea that an airhead like Sanchez was ever going to live up to his draft slot. He was effectively done in the NFL by age 30, cut by a Denver team that only had the prior season's 7th round backup + the current year's 1st round bust with a borderline Hackenberg-like career (i.e. no starter). But because his stats got to get temporarily graded on a curve by Chip Kelly calling plays from the sideline so Sanchez wouldn't have to - badly losing TOP battles & exhausting his own defense in the process - people were all too happy to put all his career woes on the Jets. Your own take on him up top is far more accurate. 

They need to pick better. Maybe there's a little bad luck involved - i.e. they are drafting QBs when the year comes up, and sometimes there's no one good to draft like 2013 or (so far) 2020. Other times they make their own bed, passing on the opportunity to take a safety and a shot at next year's lottery (though the rumor was they'd have taken a QB if only Trubisky slid a little, but not for the two probowl QBs sitting there when we were on the clock). 

It's fair to criticize drafting poorly. They get a little bit too much blame for failing to develop a hard position to predict. HOF players & FO personnel whiff on that all the time, too. But that's of little consequence when we wrongly guess heads or tails 10x in a row. 

[bitonti]

At least trevor is available to play 

Zach lives in the training room 

[Warfish]

26 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Could've stopped after your first sentence (though I'm the wrong person to dish out that criticism). 

My point is more that the team gets vilified for failing to develop guys who'd have been busts anyway. That's why I brought up others like Leinart. People still throw out the idea that an airhead like Sanchez was ever going to live up to his draft slot. He was effectively done in the NFL by age 30, cut by a Denver team that only had the prior season's 7th round backup + the current year's 1st round bust with a borderline Hackenberg-like career (i.e. no starter). But because his stats got to get temporarily graded on a curve by Chip Kelly calling plays from the sideline so Sanchez wouldn't have to - badly losing TOP battles & exhausting his own defense in the process - people were all too happy to put all his career woes on the Jets. Your own take on him up top is far more accurate. 

They need to pick better. Maybe there's a little bad luck involved - i.e. they are drafting QBs when the year comes up, and sometimes there's no one good to draft like 2013 or (so far) 2020. Other times they make their own bed, passing on the opportunity to take a safety and a shot at next year's lottery (though the rumor was they'd have taken a QB if only Trubisky slid a little, but not for the two probowl QBs sitting there when we were on the clock). 

It's fair to criticize drafting poorly. They get a little bit too much blame for failing to develop a hard position to predict. HOF players & FO personnel whiff on that all the time, too. But that's of little consequence when we wrongly guess heads or tails 10x in a row. 

If you're looking for fairness, the real world is the wrong place to look.

We can make all the brilliant arguments we like, end of the day, we're a bad QB team bad at drafting and/or developing and/or supporting the QB's we draft.

So people are critical of us, fairly and not, for it.

[peebag]

I'd trade Zach and Sauce for Trevor in a heart beat.

[Thai Jet]

3 hours ago, Shelbyblue said:

Watched the Jacksonville/Commanders game replay. I don’t see anything Generational there, I see him and Zach on the same level, I thought having Peterson as a coach this kid would jump off the tape this game. I know it’s just one game and the whole team looked blah! , but I did not see that Wow factor, I saw a game manager at best .

Still waaay early in the season but I'm not overly impressed. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

If you've been reading these boards for a while, have you noticed that most of the Wilson haters were Josh Rosen truthers five years ago?

Nobody knows anything about drafting quarterbacks - not here, not in the media, not in the league.

They're all lottery tickets.

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, RedBeardedSavage said:

If you've been reading these boards for a while, have you noticed that most of the Wilson haters were Josh Rosen truthers five years ago?

Nobody knows anything about drafting quarterbacks - not here, not in the media, not in the league.

They're all lottery tickets.

Who was ever a Josh Rosen truther?   I remember being surprised that he fell like that, but I don't think there were too many people clamoring for him.  Plenty were scared enough of Allen to prefer Rosen, but that is more an indication of how wrong they were on Allen than Rosen.

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

If you've been reading these boards for a while, have you noticed that most of the Wilson haters were Josh Rosen truthers five years ago?

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Who was ever a Josh Rosen truther?

#JamesMorganTruth

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah well at least we don't have to live through the latest round of, "The Jets ruined yet another generational prospect."

• If a QB's drafted somewhere else & doesn't come close to expectations = bust
• If a QB's drafted here & doesn't come close to expectations (or hopes) = because Jets

Most of the time we have to wait until the player's also failed to produce for someone else for so many Jets fans to fully accept he just didn't have it.

We could've drafted Ryan Leaf & that would've been the Jets' fault he busted after being pick 1B after Peyton Manning.

Or imagine if Manginibaum were successful in trading plenty to move up from #27 (Mangold) to #9 for Matt Leinart like they wanted to. He'd have been another one the Jets ruined, because we wouldn't have given him the advantages that would've led to his success, like throwing to a duo on par with Fitzgerald & Bolden (plus no instant-replacement probowl center after cutting Mawae lol).

At least with Wilson it'll likely be more like a "we over-drafted a guy who was never gonna be" like with Clemens or Geno. (I honestly don't know which category Hackenberg falls into, given how many loved the pick & how long they defended it, but it does at least illustrate that just because the fans didn't get to see him in live action here after drafting him doesn't mean the coaches - even less than great ones - couldn't tell from practices).

Nature/nurture.  I remember Bill Parcells (that fat ******* carpetbagger) being convinced that the only reason Rick Mirer was not as good as Drew Bledsoe was because Mirer was selected by the Seahawks instead of that almighty fat ****. 

[Jetsfan80]

Certainly is making @Gastineau Lives' 5 month departure from the board over not getting the 2021 # 1 overall pick seem silly, no?

Either way we would have ended up with a sh*tty QB, it appears.

 

 

[fusionCA]

he had a wheel route to the running back right into the end zone this week , the back was wide open , you cant find an easier pass, and he sailed it into the stands