Saleh’s Real Record

[Trotter]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

To be fair at least they know exactly why we can’t stand them. It’s called their record. They have blown so far and except for the board positivity troll and a few people that still believe in Santa Claus we have been given no reason to think differently. 

No Santa Claus?

damn.

[LIJetsFan]

1 hour ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

I agree with this.

Question is how long are you willing to wait for results before you pull the plug?

No the real question is has your new HC risen to the level of his incompetence?  So far IMHO he has.  If he doesn't turn it around in 2-3 more games my opinion will be solidified.  Sadly I think he IS rapidly heading towards that moment of proof positive.

Here's hoping I'm wrong!  Go Jets!  

[Biggs]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

This is exactly the point Jet fans are refusing to accept.  Even those Gase teams were trying to win, they were fielding the best team they could - just Mac was a disaster.   

JD's plan was to literally tear the thing down to the studs and start over - which is what he did and the team Saleh had last year.  Surely he has to live with that record.  But let's not try and change history here.

This team is still exceptionally young but they need to win a bunch of games this year and be competitive in most of the ones they lose.  

 

The New York Jets roster is currently the 18th youngest roster in the NFL.    The team we play on Sunday has the youngest roster in the NFL.   The youngest roster is a myth.  There is very little difference between the roster ages of the entire league.   The Rams, Bengals, Cowboys and Chiefs have younger rosters than the NY Jets. 

The mean average of an NFL player is 26 years 5 months as of September 6, 2020

https://bookies.com/nfl/picks/nfl-teams-average-age

[Skeptable]

I can't believe you guys fall into this trolls trap on every thread along with DarnoldForehead and whatever other names he goes by.... Jesus this forum has become gullible.

[nycdan]

21 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The New York Jets roster is currently the 18th youngest roster in the NFL.    The team we play on Sunday has the youngest roster in the NFL.   The youngest roster is a myth.  There is very little difference between the roster ages of the entire league.   The Rams, Bengals, Cowboys and Chiefs have younger rosters than the NY Jets. 

The mean average of an NFL player is 26 years 5 months as of September 6, 2020

https://bookies.com/nfl/picks/nfl-teams-average-age

True.

But our roster is an odd mix of very young and pretty experienced guys. 

We have 5 rookies starting or playing meaningful snaps: Gardner, G Wilson, JJ2, Breece Hall, Max Mitchell.  Plus now Tony Adams.

Plus 6 more guys in their 2nd year either starting or playing decent time: Z Wilson, AVT, Elijah Moore, M Carter, M Carter II, Sherwood.

Feels like more than usual which is why the team feels younger than it is overall.

Flacco, on the other hand, at 37, (and Duane Brown) brings up the average quite a bit.

[FidelioJet]

48 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The New York Jets roster is currently the 18th youngest roster in the NFL.    The team we play on Sunday has the youngest roster in the NFL.   The youngest roster is a myth.  There is very little difference between the roster ages of the entire league.   The Rams, Bengals, Cowboys and Chiefs have younger rosters than the NY Jets. 

The mean average of an NFL player is 26 years 5 months as of September 6, 2020

https://bookies.com/nfl/picks/nfl-teams-average-age

I know that's a data point people like to use - but it's really not expressing the reality of the situation. There is very little veteran talent on this roster.  The reliance on young talent is what we're talking about

I would be pretty confident is saying there aren't a whole lot of teams that had 8 or 9 of their 22 starters are 1st or 2nd year players (6 on offense alone - hence the offensive struggles) and another 6 in their first year with the team.

So 15 of 22 starter are either 1st or 2nd year players or in their first year on the Jets.

This is an exceptionally young and new team.  

We all need to stop just looking at basic data and dig a little deeper.

Yes, as fans we're frustrated and have a right to be, but we also should try and face reality too.  Blame Saleh all you want, but it's a tough situation he's faced with.

[slimjasi]

40 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The New York Jets roster is currently the 18th youngest roster in the NFL.    The team we play on Sunday has the youngest roster in the NFL.   The youngest roster is a myth.  There is very little difference between the roster ages of the entire league.   The Rams, Bengals, Cowboys and Chiefs have younger rosters than the NY Jets. 

The mean average of an NFL player is 26 years 5 months as of September 6, 2020

https://bookies.com/nfl/picks/nfl-teams-average-age

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I would be curious to know how things changed if you just looked at starting lineups. We seem to have a lot of rookies and second year players starting at key positions. 

More generally, we seem to have a lot of guys who we are counting on to have big seasons who are in their first or second year. 

But, maybe that is wrong and we aren't particularly young. 

Either way, it's not an excuse. Young players break out all over the league, there's no reason it can't happen here. 

[Claymation]

10 minutes ago, nycdan said:

True.

But our roster is an odd mix of very young and pretty experienced guys. 

We have 5 rookies starting or playing meaningful snaps: Gardner, G Wilson, JJ2, Breece Hall, Max Mitchell.  Plus now Tony Adams.

Plus 6 more guys in their 2nd year either starting or playing decent time: Z Wilson, AVT, Elijah Moore, M Carter, M Carter II, Sherwood.

Feels like more than usual which is why the team feels younger than it is overall.

Flacco, on the other hand, at 37, (and Duane Brown) brings up the average quite a bit.

Clemons doesn't rip someone's head off while sacking someone 43 times and now he is forgotten.

Have you no shame.

Good Day Sir!

[nycdan]

8 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Clemons doesn't rip someone's head off while sacking someone 43 times and now he is forgotten.

Have you no shame.

Good Day Sir!

Argh!  You are right.  +Clemons.

[#27TheDominator]

53 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The New York Jets roster is currently the 18th youngest roster in the NFL.    The team we play on Sunday has the youngest roster in the NFL.   The youngest roster is a myth.  There is very little difference between the roster ages of the entire league.   The Rams, Bengals, Cowboys and Chiefs have younger rosters than the NY Jets. 

The mean average of an NFL player is 26 years 5 months as of September 6, 2020

https://bookies.com/nfl/picks/nfl-teams-average-age

That is 18th oldest.  15th youngest.  They will probably get much younger this week when Flacco is eviscerated by Myles Garrett

[FidelioJet]

19 minutes ago, nycdan said:

True.

But our roster is an odd mix of very young and pretty experienced guys. 

We have 5 rookies starting or playing meaningful snaps: Gardner, G Wilson, JJ2, Breece Hall, Max Mitchell.  Plus now Tony Adams.

Plus 6 more guys in their 2nd year either starting or playing decent time: Z Wilson, AVT, Elijah Moore, M Carter, M Carter II, Sherwood.

Feels like more than usual which is why the team feels younger than it is overall.

Flacco, on the other hand, at 37, (and Duane Brown) brings up the average quite a bit.

Just to add to this...

To point out how that list really doesn't say much.  As an example...

In two years, when guys like Mosley, Fant, McGovern, Brown, Flacco, Joyner are all off the team, replaced by draft picks -- In all likelihood on paper -- the Jet will be a "younger team" 

They will be a far more talented and mature team.

[#27TheDominator]

29 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

I can't believe you guys fall into this trolls trap on every thread along with DarnoldForehead and whatever other names he goes by.... Jesus this forum has become gullible.

This is insubordination.  FOLLOW YOUR CAPTAIN!

[jgb]

19 hours ago, batman10023 said:

this is a very sad chart.

What’s even sadder is if Saleh wins less than 5 games over the next 14, he will have coached the same number of games as Gase with a worse winning percentage. While everyone is saying this is the most talented roster in many years. Who thinks he can do it?

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Man, this guy seems to get it.

Just listen.

 

[jgb]

3 hours ago, The Crusher said:

To be fair at least they know exactly why we can’t stand them. It’s called their record. They have blown so far and except for the board positivity troll and a few people that still believe in Santa Claus we have been given no reason to think differently. 

Santa Claus would put “non-existence” on his own wish list if he was a Jets fan.

[TuscanyTile2]

Maybe it would be better for the team's morale to refer to Saleh's losing percentage, which is 824.  That sounds much more impressive!

[TuscanyTile2]

23 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Man, this guy seems to get it.

Just listen.

He sure does.  He seems young and kind of geeky but he also has what seems to be a fantastic approach toward the job.  I love the part at the very end where he said that reflection of his W/L record will be done on his own time.  But right now they're not paying him to focus on his record, they're paying him to focus on doing his job.  There was another part where he talked about having his guys improve each week while having fun doing so.  And early in the interview he said that the team showered him in Gatorade and "made it about me, when I know for a fact that it's not".  He also said he could tell that the celebration wasn't a "satisfied celebration".

[PepPep]

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I would be curious to know how things changed if you just looked at starting lineups. We seem to have a lot of rookies and second year players starting at key positions. 

More generally, we seem to have a lot of guys who we are counting on to have big seasons who are in their first or second year. 

But, maybe that is wrong and we aren't particularly young. 

Either way, it's not an excuse. Young players break out all over the league, there's no reason it can't happen here. 

If you're curious the data is out there.  There seems to be a lot of speculation on this without showing any data.   It may be that a lot of teams have rookies and 2nd year players playing key roles with a few veterans sprinkled in.   The reality is the average age of the entire NFL falls into about a 2 year window from lowest to highest.   I keep hearing how young our team is but nobody is actually showing that it's true.  

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

I know that's a data point people like to use - but it's really not expressing the reality of the situation. There is very little veteran talent on this roster.  The reliance on young talent is what we're talking about

I would be pretty confident is saying there aren't a whole lot of teams that had 8 or 9 of their 22 starters are 1st or 2nd year players (6 on offense alone - hence the offensive struggles) and another 6 in their first year with the team.

So 15 of 22 starter are either 1st or 2nd year players or in their first year on the Jets.

This is an exceptionally young and new team.  

We all need to stop just looking at basic data and dig a little deeper.

Yes, as fans we're frustrated and have a right to be, but we also should try and face reality too.  Blame Saleh all you want, but it's a tough situation he's faced with.

If you're pretty confident show the data.  I don't see a deep dive in this response.  I see a lot of speculation.  

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

That is 18th oldest.  15th youngest.  They will probably get much younger this week when Flacco is eviscerated by Myles Garrett

If he takes Mad Max with him it might be a wash.  

[Biggs]

4 hours ago, The Crusher said:

To be fair at least they know exactly why we can’t stand them. It’s called their record. They have blown so far and except for the board positivity troll and a few people that still believe in Santa Claus we have been given no reason to think differently. 

To be fair.  The fans, at least speaking for myself want the players to do well and root for them.  When the team sucks I have a lot less love for the HC, GM and owner.   Unless the players are mailing it in and some high paid vets and the occasional early round rookie mail it in, I don't get mad at effort.  Sometime the players aren't good enough and put out great effort.  Other times players play very hard but they are simply not put in a position to succeed.   I really don't get upset with players in that circumstance.  I pretty much root for the players on game day every week no matter what.  When they aren't in position to compete because of talent, coaching, scheme or adjustments it's generally not the players fault.

Of course there is the occassional dumb play when a player losses his mind that's sometime infuriating but generally speaking I root for all players.

[slimjasi]

21 minutes ago, Biggs said:

If you're curious the data is out there.  There seems to be a lot of speculation on this without showing any data.   It may be that a lot of teams have rookies and 2nd year players playing key roles with a few veterans sprinkled in.   The reality is the average age of the entire NFL falls into about a 2 year window from lowest to highest.   I keep hearing how young our team is but nobody is actually showing that it's true.  

I don’t care enough to analyze any data, mainly because I don’t think it’s a great excuse, regardless.

i think the jets are talented enough to be competitive regardless of age 

[Jet Nut]

6 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

There is another thread here titled “Zach Wilson is our only hope”

[MykePM]

6 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

He’s 3-14.

Fact.

A coach that you've been all excited about in other threads, Dan Campbell, has the same amount of wins as Robert Saleh in the same amount of time.  Actually, Campbell has actually had one more opportunity because Saleh missed the one game last season.

So, you'll essentially make excuses for why Campbell is better than his record, while coming up with reasons why Saleh doesn't even deserve the wins he's had. 

[jamesr]

Grandpa Joe is the 9th oldest player in the NFL. 5 of the 8 players older than him are STs (K, P, LS).

Breece Hall, on the opposite end of things, is the 6th youngest player.

[bostonmajet]

So, first we are throwing out Flacco stats because it was garbage time, now we are throwing out wins as White wins?

[jeremy2020]

2 hours ago, nycdan said:

True.

But our roster is an odd mix of very young and pretty experienced guys. 

We have 5 rookies starting or playing meaningful snaps: Gardner, G Wilson, JJ2, Breece Hall, Max Mitchell.  Plus now Tony Adams.

Plus 6 more guys in their 2nd year either starting or playing decent time: Z Wilson, AVT, Elijah Moore, M Carter, M Carter II, Sherwood.

Feels like more than usual which is why the team feels younger than it is overall.

Flacco, on the other hand, at 37, (and Duane Brown) brings up the average quite a bit.

The Jets have the 18th oldest roster (excluding brown). There are 14 teams with a younger 'average' age. Six of those younger teams made the playoffs in 2021. 

Not sure how it breaks down by team's 'starters'.

[jamesr]

10 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

The Jets have the 18th oldest roster (excluding brown). There are 14 teams with a younger 'average' age. Six of those younger teams made the playoffs in 2021. 

Not sure how it breaks down by team's 'starters'.

One challenge is how you define "starters", and factor in the different levels of rotation.

Garrett Wilson, Breece Hall, Jermaine Johnson and Michael Clemons did not start for us so wouldn't count. But all saw decent game time.

Also, do you go by a player's physical age or his years in the league? For example, Clemons is a 25 year old rookie, while JFM is the same age and in his fifth year. 

[Dunnie]

13 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

His point is that the Jets won 4 games in 2021.  For the Jaguars game both Saleh and Calabrese were unable to coach due to covid protocols, so Middleton was the head coach for one of those four wins and Saleh's head coaching record is actually 3-14. Period

Not to rain on anyone's parade ...

Saleh got the win for his covid week.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/SaleRo0.htm

https://www.statscrew.com/football/stats/c-salehrob001

https://pro-football-history.com/coach/1793/robert-saleh-bio

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Saleh

 

[jgb]

8 hours ago, bostonmajet said:

So, first we are throwing out Flacco stats because it was garbage time, now we are throwing out wins as White wins?

Seriously. The whole point of statistics is to remove the biased human element. So what do humans do? Start chopping out data points that don’t fit their narrative lol.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

18 hours ago, MykePM said:

A coach that you've been all excited about in other threads, Dan Campbell, has the same amount of wins as Robert Saleh in the same amount of time.  Actually, Campbell has actually had one more opportunity because Saleh missed the one game last season.

So, you'll essentially make excuses for why Campbell is better than his record, while coming up with reasons why Saleh doesn't even deserve the wins he's had. 

They also tied the Steelers on the road.

After a rough start in ‘21, that Lions team has been competitive in the 4th Q of pretty much every game.

Their fan base senses they are moving in the right direction.

I think most Jets fans would settle for that.

I don’t root for the Lions, so I don’t care if their fan base is happy or unhappy.

I’ve watched every Jet game Saleh has coached.  It’s the same old garbage with the same old excuses.  The game essentially being over either at halftime or by the 3rd Q.

As far as Saleh’s W-L record, he has to own it.  I don’t get whining about it.  It’s not like somebody else coached this team, and he’s getting blamed for bad football he wasn’t responsible for.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

13 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Not to rain on anyone's parade ...

Saleh got the win for his covid week.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/SaleRo0.htm

https://www.statscrew.com/football/stats/c-salehrob001

https://pro-football-history.com/coach/1793/robert-saleh-bio

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Saleh

 

Yeah that’s my point.

He doesn’t deserve the W.

Riverboat Ron coached the team.  Saleh was on his sofa or whatever watching from home.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

I’d rather have Mike McDaniel than Campbell.

But if it’s a choice between Campbell and Saleh, yeah I’m taking Campbell.

[Dunnie]

5 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

As far as Saleh’s W-L record, he has to own it.  I don’t get whining about it.  It’s not like somebody else coached this team, and he’s getting blamed for bad football he wasn’t responsible for.

Totally agree - it is what is .. no more .. no less.