Saleh's press conference - Sounds like Flacco does have a shot to be the qb this year

[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Typical response for the sh*t stirrers . I'll debate with posters who present valid arguments . The next you had one will be the first . 

Well, you've successfully dunning-kruegered your way to your own win here, so, good on you, I suppose.

[LIJetsFan]

31 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

 

By most accounts Wilson was better in training camp than he was last year that might indicate improvement but if you want evidence and an answer he has to play regardless of the low ceiling success of Joe Flacco. 

As long as you can't get hit in training camp I discount it 100%

[slimjasi]

Just now, ZachEY said:

I don't have the data, but I remember seeing it here, that no one who was as bad as Wilson in their rookie year has ever gone on to be good.  The suggestion being, there's not a correlation that could be a predictor of future success, but there is a bar which, if unachieved, makes the already unlikely probability of becoming a FQB, almost, if not complete non-existent.

Interesting! What does "as bad as Wilson in their rookie year" mean and how was that quantified? What is "good" and how was that quantified? 

I'd love to see what you are referring to, if you can find it or know where I can find it. 

The last time I heard about such a bar was Josh Allen and his completion percentage. 

[Hal N of Provo]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

So says someone who calls someone a liar for 9 months and is physically incapable of saying “my bad” when proven wrong.

This is going to happen every time you respond to me or @ me so stop doing that or go find that quote. Or have a mental health breakthrough and just admit you were wrong this one time on the Internet.

Are you mentally ill?  WTF is wrong with you?  
 

Go find that quite I already put up.  I’ll add it and your denial to my signature.  Also that quote about how all the other forums banned you.  

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

He was consistently good throughout camp.

That's not my recollection.

He had good days and he had bad ones.  There was an occasional glowing report mixed in, but most of the praise seemed largely measured.

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, oatmeal said:

Christ is Flacco a alleged franchise qb? 

But he's the savior and the Jets season would be wasted w/o him because then they'd have to play Zach which according to you would mean they will suck even worse. 

[oatmeal]

3 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Big difference , the Chargers have a real chance at making some noise this year , they can't afford to have a backup QB with 1 win in 5 years taking the helm. 

No no no 

The point is franchise players that just had minor surgery don’t wait until they are 110%. Facts period simple 

 

Watt is trying to play with a torn pectoral muscle like wtf how many more examples you and @FidelioJetneed to see the CLEAR AS DAY writing on the wall ???????

[Hal N of Provo]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

You’re sicker than I thought if you believe a quote by me saying “I didn’t say he doesn’t do anything right” proves your assertion that I said “he has no positive traits.”

You really need to stop commenting on others’ mental health.

Sore spot?  We’ve gone in circles a bunch and nobody else cares but you keep SOJ g it.  It’s bizarre.  

[kdels62]

2 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Bro he had minor surgery, in a league where QBs play entire seasons on torn ACLs 

 

Do they play with torn ACLs? Last year Baker played through injury and it basically sunk the Browns season. Stafford played through injury last year and suddenly he looks cooked. 

The timetable we were given was 6-8 weeks and back for week 4. It’s been 6 weeks and it’s week 3. If they believe in Wilson and he’s back in week 4 then they were just mitigating risk of reinjury or giving their young QB a platform of health to adjust back to the NFL game. Until there’s “a setback” you’re just making things up.

 

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

Interesting! What does "as bad as Wilson in their rookie year" mean and how was that quantified? What is "good" and how was that quantified? 

I'd love to see what you are referring to, if you can find it or know where I can find it. 

The last time I heard about such a bar was Josh Allen and his completion percentage. 

Honestly, I think @RutgersJetFan may have had it.  Maybe @dbatesman.

So you don't need to look back, data about a bar for rookies that if not met, means almost impossible they turn out to be good.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Sore spot?  We’ve gone in circles a bunch and nobody else cares but you keep SOJ g it.  It’s bizarre.  

Yeah I don’t like being called a liar despite direct proof to the contrary. Call me crazy.

Now go find the quote or STFU.

[oatmeal]

1 minute ago, kdels62 said:

Do they play with torn ACLs? Last year Baker played through injury and it basically sunk the Browns season. Stafford played through injury last year and suddenly he looks cooked. 

The timetable we were given was 6-8 weeks and back for week 4. It’s been 6 weeks and it’s week 3. If they believe in Wilson and he’s back in week 4 then they were just mitigating risk of reinjury or giving their young QB a platform of health to adjust back to the NFL game. Until there’s “a setback” you’re just making things up.

 

Rivers played a entire season with a torn acl, yes he did and the fact you mentioned baker and Stafford proves my point:

 

NO franchise player waits until they are 110% in this league, you dudes are not living in reality I’m sorry 

[56mehl56]

Just now, oatmeal said:

No no no 

The point is franchise players that just had minor surgery don’t wait until they are 110%. Facts period simple 

 

Watt is trying to play with a torn pectoral muscle like wtf how many more examples you and @FidelioJetneed to see the CLEAR AS DAY writing on the wall ???????

Yes and a Pec issue isn't potentially something that can end a career , knee issues can , so if the doctor's /coaches and trainers want to take extra precaution with Zach who are we to challenge that. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

5 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

He was consistently good throughout camp. He was significantly better in the only point of comparison (Green and white scrimmage) I had for him. There were no reports about concern that he wasn’t improving or that his improvement was marginal. When Darnold was supposed to improve multiple beat reporters told us he doesn’t look improved, that wasn’t the case this year. 

There is no proof Wilson is being held out other than the team’s concern about long term health. The reports after his surgery of 6-8 weeks of recovery were mostly ignored around here. He’s within that time frame. If or when the team keeps him off the field after their projected first start (Pittsburgh) then there might something to speculate on.

Besides being level-headed and reasonable, this is the version of reality I choose to believe because it gives me hope that Wilson took a jump this offseason and simply had two bad preseason series culminating in an unfortunate injury.

Here's to believing what you want to believe!

[FidelioJet]

34 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Why I still believe in Zach?

- Work Ethic: He has the work ethic and desire to improve that you see from top QBs. He lives for football

- Arm Strength: He can make every throw on the field. This makes it so that defenses have to cover the entire field

- Agility: He is a quick twitch athlete. This helps him avoid sacks and put additional pressure on the defense

- Ball Release: His release is lightning quick.

His ball release and arm strength are elite in my opinion. Agility is good.

What will hold him back?

- Accuracy: He has not been accurate at the NFL level. He was in college. My assumption is that his accuracy issues are due to processing issues

- Processing Speed: this is the big red flag to me and will determine whether he will be below average or above average. Nobody can predict if he will turn the corner with processing defenses etc. 

- Injuries: he has a history of injuries that is concerning

Strong list.  

Agree.  Now, with this list a couple of things..

1) I think toward the end of last year he mostly fixed his accuracy issues.  It seemed to be a lot about his footwork.  But I agree it was and still is a concern.

2) Processing speed.  This is why I'm actually so bullish on Zach right now.  And not because I don't agree with you, I do.  I also think the more he learns the game - the offense, NFL defense's the easier it will become - second nature instead of thinking/processing.

Okay then...so why am I bullish..and the answer is talent.  2nd year Moore and Carter, Conklin, CJ, - GDubs, Hall etc... 

Which will translate to 1st options being open A LOT.  The amount of pressure this takes off a young QB can't be over stated.  If Zach can basically be a 1st read - not open then check down QB this year....and it's the only thing he has to worry about - and still be productive....that is going to make a world of difference for this kid.

And I'm pretty sure that's what they're going to be doing with him - and you're going to see big numbers because that first option is going to be open a LOT - with guys that can make something happen with it.

[oatmeal]

Just now, 56mehl56 said:

Yes and a Pec issue isn't potentially something that can end a career , knee issues can , so if the doctor's /coaches and trainers want to take extra precaution with Zach who are we to challenge that. 

If A rush lineman with his arm muscle handing off the bone isn’t a potential career ender I don’t know what is!

Lmaooo 

 

Zach injury is a hang nail in comparison FYI 

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, oatmeal said:

If A rush lineman with his arm muscle handing off the bone isn’t a potential career ender I don’t know what is!

Lmaooo 

 

Zach injury is a hang nail in comparison FYI 

Says the internet tough guy .  Plus muscle injuries heal, knee joints and ligaments can be another story . 

[oatmeal]

2 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Says the internet tough guy .  Plus muscle injuries heal, knee joints and ligaments can be another story . 

Smfh yeah you’re 100% correct 

Zachs injury is wayyyy more serious then watts , one requires major surgery and Zach  had minor surgery

Lmfao I give up  

[FidelioJet]

6 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Besides being level-headed and reasonable, this is the version of reality I choose to believe because it gives me hope that Wilson took a jump this offseason and simply had two bad preseason series culminating in an unfortunate injury.

Here's to believing what you want to believe!

Good post.  For the record it was one bad series - actually one bad throw/decisions and one throw away throw.

Second drive he had two first downs - then got hurt.   

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

1 hour ago, ZachEY said:

We know what Flacco is and what he isn't at this point of his career, and if Zach Wilson isn't better than that, that's about it for Zach Wilson.  I agree that Flacco should keep playing if he's winning.  But, I also think Zach Wilson should look good enough in practice that you don't have any doubts that he would do the same or better.

If Flacco was in for Justin Herbert right now, there'd be no doubt he'd be sitting.  Instead, Flacco is in for a guy who's been objectively terrible thus far.  If he can't show in practice that he's not objectively terrible so that the coaches believe he belongs in the game, then that's on Wilson.

But Flacco isn't in for Herbet. We get it. He's in for a young unproven/unknown QB.

Point is....if you have a QB playing well and winning...do you turn to your young unknown QB and potentially risk taking a step back? Zach could look fine in practice, it's a matter of messing with a good thing when you're absolutely desperate for wins.

Again, I don't think there's harm if he, for some reason, sat the whole year. It's not a bad thing having a talented young QB with 2 years of the same offense under his belt. 

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, oatmeal said:

Smfh yeah you’re 100% correct 

Zachs injury is wayyyy more serious then watts , one requires major surgery and Zach  had minor surgery

Lmfao I give up  

Watt doesn't need surgery, expected to miss six weeks. Doctors determined Tuesday afternoon that the Pittsburgh Steelers' T.J. Watt does not surgery on his torn pectoral and the star pass-rusher is expected to miss about six weeks.  

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

As opposed to the whole "handing the undeserved QB the job without a plan B?"  How has that worked for us?

And who says there will be a competition next year?  Say the Jets bring in a quality veteran at or near the level of someone like Aaron Rodgers?  Wilson ain't winning that job.  

Lol well yes if there's an Aaron Rodgers available, I would agree. I just don't see anyone like that actually being available. But who knows. 

[ZachEY]

16 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Christ is Flacco a alleged franchise qb? 

It's like Burning Man up here with all the strawmen being torched.

[kdels62]

1 minute ago, ZachEY said:

That's not my recollection.

He had good days and he had bad ones.  There was an occasional glowing report mixed in, but most of the praise seemed largely measured.

He’d have like 1 bad practice out of every 5 and that might be generous to the bad practices. There were also starting to be reports that the Jets brass was getting excited about what Zach would do this year (The Athletic article from 8/22, and Chris Simms mentioned it on his podcast). None of this concrete and if Wilson’s return is delayed then you might be right but for now you’re just speculating based on nothing. 

[kdels62]

14 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Rivers played a entire season with a torn acl, yes he did and the fact you mentioned baker and Stafford proves my point:

 

NO franchise player waits until they are 110% in this league, you dudes are not living in reality I’m sorry 

Rivers played 1 game with a torn ACL. 

Those players were damaged by their injuries into poor play and possibly in Stafford’s case into the end of his career. Zach is a 2nd year player who played half a season with a broken thumb in college. The coaching staff is probably protecting him from himself and don’t need to rush him because they trust Flacco. 

[ZachEY]

3 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

But Flacco isn't in for Herbet. We get it. He's in for a young unproven/unknown QB.

Point is....if you have a QB playing well and winning...do you turn to your young unknown QB and potentially risk taking a step back? Zach could look fine in practice, it's a matter of messing with a good thing when you're absolutely desperate for wins.

Again, I don't think there's harm if he, for some reason, sat the whole year. It's not a bad thing having a talented young QB with 2 years of the same offense under his belt. 

See, calling Zach an "unknown" is to act as if there isn't data on him.  The coaching staff has had two offseasons, 13 games, and preseason games with him.  Zach isn't an "unknown."  He's terrible.  What's "unknown" is if he can go from terrible to good.

Yes, in the fairy-tale where Flacco is pushing this team into a position where they're top of the league, it wouldn't matter what Zach looks like.  But, on the 2022 Jets, that's not going to happen.  Flacco could play reasonably well, and there are still going to be back-to-back losses.  Those losses would be the opportunity to get the other QB, who you genuinely believe to be ascending, and good.  Into the mix to take over.

The harm is you can't trot a guy out for year 3, if he's not clearly better than Joe Flacco in year 2.  You need to be looking for a QB again.  That doesn't mean cut Wilson, but it also means you consider top tier FAs and 1st round QBs.

[kdels62]

15 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Besides being level-headed and reasonable, this is the version of reality I choose to believe because it gives me hope that Wilson took a jump this offseason and simply had two bad preseason series culminating in an unfortunate injury.

Here's to believing what you want to believe!

My side requires no leap in logic or weird assumptions about ulterior motives or speculation. Just the circumstances and their most obvious solution. When I have evidence of Wilson not improving enough or the coaching staff giving up on him then i accept that evidence.

[Hal N of Provo]

19 minutes ago, jgb said:

Yeah I don’t like being called a liar despite direct proof to the contrary. Call me crazy.

Now go find the quote or STFU.

 

I like the quote given well enough.  

Why are you telling me to STFU when you keep doing this?  This is your circus.  I’m not going to stop posting.  

[oatmeal]

5 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Rivers played 1 game with a torn ACL. 

Those players were damaged by their injuries into poor play and possibly in Stafford’s case into the end of his career. Zach is a 2nd year player who played half a season with a broken thumb in college. The coaching staff is probably protecting him from himself and don’t need to rush him because they trust Flacco. 

Excuse me it was Brady https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31826689/report-tampa-bay-buccaneers-qb-tom-brady-played-entire-season-torn-mcl?platform=amp

this is a old man that did this last year 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Hal N of Provo said:

I like the quote given well enough.  You are the nut job who keeps bringing it up 

 So I’ll take that as not an apology. Go find that quote, then. I offered you $1000. Where is it? Oh right, non-existent.

 

[kdels62]

1 minute ago, oatmeal said:

Excuse me it was Brady https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31826689/report-tampa-bay-buccaneers-qb-tom-brady-played-entire-season-torn-mcl?platform=amp

this is a old man that did this last year 

Torn MCL for a QB that 1) is the greatest to ever play 2) no longer uses athleticism to accomplish his tasks, is the exception that proves the rule. 

[Matt39]

5 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

See, calling Zach an "unknown" is to act as if there isn't data on him.  The coaching staff has had two offseasons, 13 games, and preseason games with him.  Zach isn't an "unknown."  He's terrible.  What's "unknown" is if he can go from terrible to good.

Yes, in the fairy-tale where Flacco is pushing this team into a position where they're top of the league, it wouldn't matter what Zach looks like.  But, on the 2022 Jets, that's not going to happen.  Flacco could play reasonably well, and there are still going to be back-to-back losses.  Those losses would be the opportunity to get the other QB, who you genuinely believe to be ascending, and good.  Into the mix to take over.

The harm is you can't trot a guy out for year 3, if he's not clearly better than Joe Flacco in year 2.  You need to be looking for a QB again.  That doesn't mean cut Wilson, but it also means you consider top tier FAs and 1st round QBs.

I think looking at QB’s in the draft next year has to be a given. 

[56mehl56]

2 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Torn MCL for a QB that 1) is the greatest to ever play 2) no longer uses athleticism to accomplish his tasks, is the exception that proves the rule. 

And again a case where the team he plays for has more to risk in playing a backup. The Jets aren't SB contenders . 

[Jetsfan80]

14 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Lol well yes if there's an Aaron Rodgers available, I would agree. I just don't see anyone like that actually being available. But who knows. 

Stafford wasn't supposed to be available until he was.

Nor was Russell Wilson.  

[kdels62]

9 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

See, calling Zach an "unknown" is to act as if there isn't data on him.  The coaching staff has had two offseasons, 13 games, and preseason games with him.  Zach isn't an "unknown."  He's terrible.  What's "unknown" is if he can go from terrible to good.

Yes, in the fairy-tale where Flacco is pushing this team into a position where they're top of the league, it wouldn't matter what Zach looks like.  But, on the 2022 Jets, that's not going to happen.  Flacco could play reasonably well, and there are still going to be back-to-back losses.  Those losses would be the opportunity to get the other QB, who you genuinely believe to be ascending, and good.  Into the mix to take over.

The harm is you can't trot a guy out for year 3, if he's not clearly better than Joe Flacco in year 2.  You need to be looking for a QB again.  That doesn't mean cut Wilson, but it also means you consider top tier FAs and 1st round QBs.

But like… taking a QB next year is a question only if Wilson improves marginally or never plays this year. Speculating on that is just speculation without evidence. Which is fine go for it but it’s not anything more than that (for now).