Saleh's press conference - Sounds like Flacco does have a shot to be the qb this year

[oatmeal]

1 minute ago, kdels62 said:

Torn MCL for a QB that 1) is the greatest to ever play 2) no longer uses athleticism to accomplish his tasks, is the exception that proves the rule. 

The point is players play in this league with wayyyy more serious injuries than Zach has 

Herbert ribs are shattered I’m sure you need those things to breathe yet alone throw the ball effectively

Zach had a minor surgery so something isn’t right here that’s all I’m saying 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Not my style to dunk...

But I will say, it's still going to be a battle - you guys are so dug in - that's it's going to be hard for you see anything positive from ZDubs. You're going to be looking for the negative and will have a hard time seeing anything but.  It will take some time - but I'll be here to continue to show you the light...

I thought Flacco was washed until he did what he did this Sunday.

I have proven to have the ability to change my viewpoint as new data comes in.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Zach became one of the leagues most efficient short game passers over the last quarter of the season.

Totally what he was advertised to be upon his arrival!  A master game manager!  Exactly what you draft a # 2 overall pick to be.  

[oatmeal]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I thought Flacco was washed until he did what he did this Sunday.

I have proven to have the ability to change my viewpoint as new data comes in.  

That’s why this win is so bittersweet 

that should’ve been Zach Wilson out there we have literally 0 future with Joe. I wish it was Zach Wilson 

[dbatesman]

33 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Honestly, I think @RutgersJetFan may have had it.  Maybe @dbatesman.

So you don't need to look back, data about a bar for rookies that if not met, means almost impossible they turn out to be good.

I don't have anything statistical, so maybe RJF has it. I do think it's pretty well-established now that if a guy is going to be good, you know it pretty quick.

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I thought Flacco was washed until he did what he did this Sunday.

I have proven to have the ability to change my viewpoint as new data comes in.  

So your a flip-flopper , not something I'd be to proud to brag about. 

[dbatesman]

7 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I think looking at QB’s in the draft next year has to be a given. 

No question. Even if you think Wilson can turn into something, the guy has had two significant knee injuries in ten months. One of them was caused by grass.

[56mehl56]

Just now, dbatesman said:

No question. Even if you think Wilson can turn into something, the guy has had two significant knee injuries in ten months. One of them was caused by grass.

Wait Oatmeal was just saying the Zach injury is minor and a hang nail compared to TJ Watt';s pec 

[Jetsfan80]

58 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Probably

It at least means that the teams accepts him as their leader. 

In the end none of it can be known unless the Jets coaching staff strips Wilson of his status as starting QB or until he plays. We know what Flacco is and that’s 1 miracle win away from 0 wins since 2018. 

They'll accept whoever produces "as their leader".  The locker room just went nuts on Sunday rallying around Flacco.  They did the same thing last year with Mike White.

This is a pretty silly reason to believe in the kid.

[jgb]

48 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I loved Allen - that's documented here.

didn't get into Stafford at the time - really didn't know a lot about him.

With that said, I wasn't talking about me, just in reference to eye-tests vs. stats.

You guys want to solely rely on stats - and all I'm saying is that's not enough - as it doesn't tell the whole story.n. Especially with this small of a sample size and the issues with the NY Jets last year.

My skill-set as judging players is hit or miss (like I imagine most are).

What I believe about Zach doesn't make it so or that it's going to happen.

You loved Allen pre-draft or after his first couple years? Either way kudos but the latter case is what we are talking about here.

[kdels62]

5 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

The point is players play in this league with wayyyy more serious injuries than Zach has 

Herbert ribs are shattered I’m sure you need those things to breathe yet alone throw the ball effectively

Zach had a minor surgery so something isn’t right here that’s all I’m saying 

Adrian Peterson took 10 weeks to return from a meniscus tear. 

Herbert has torn cartilage in his rib cage, the last time a player had that was Tony Romo who missed no time. 

[kdels62]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

They'll accept whoever produces "as their leader".  The locker room just went nuts on Sunday rallying around Flacco.  They did the same thing last year with Mike White.

This is a pretty silly reason to believe in the kid.

It’s definitely silly but “he’s scheduled to return to within the allotted period of his recovery” is a weird reason to think the coaching staff doesn’t have faith in him.

[jgb]

1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

And as a starting QB what is the ultimate stat 1-6 . Wilson is 3-10 , so he's had 3 times the wins in 6 more starts as a rookie no less. Flacco would have to go 2-4 just to reach the "suckitude" of Wilson. Can you predict 2 more Flacco wins coming up ? 

What does this discussion have to do with Flacco? Not hatin, genuinely asking.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

15 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

See, calling Zach an "unknown" is to act as if there isn't data on him.  The coaching staff has had two offseasons, 13 games, and preseason games with him.  Zach isn't an "unknown."  He's terrible.  What's "unknown" is if he can go from terrible to good.

Yes, in the fairy-tale where Flacco is pushing this team into a position where they're top of the league, it wouldn't matter what Zach looks like.  But, on the 2022 Jets, that's not going to happen.  Flacco could play reasonably well, and there are still going to be back-to-back losses.  Those losses would be the opportunity to get the other QB, who you genuinely believe to be ascending, and good.  Into the mix to take over.

The harm is you can't trot a guy out for year 3, if he's not clearly better than Joe Flacco in year 2.  You need to be looking for a QB again.  That doesn't mean cut Wilson, but it also means you consider top tier FAs and 1st round QBs.

Because he had a bad rookie season, then that's it? He's done? No need for any more playing time?  And exactly, he's unknown because we haven't seen if he's improved or not.  If the Flacco miracle isn't happening, then yes, Zach will be in there. 

[Ghost420]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Want to bet right now Flacco isn’t playing the season?  

It's also like i said it's doubtful. I know reading is difficult. 

[Ghost420]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Being injured isn’t essentially benched.  No matter how much you want it to be true

Are you dense? If Flacco plays well and Jets stay with him even when zach is healthy thats him being benched. Again I doubt it happens but it's possible.

[56mehl56]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

What does this discussion have to do with Flacco? Not hatin, genuinely asking.

This was your quote - QB is about production and hey, they got stats for that. So I gave you the ultimate stat 

[Jetsfan80]

54 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

What I believe about Zach doesn't make it so or that it's going to happen.

Yet you're relying on your own eye test, and basically nothing else, to determine that Wilson is currently the best QB on the roster.

Don't you see the flaw in that?

[Claymation]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I thought Flacco was washed until he did what he did this Sunday.

I have proven to have the ability to change my viewpoint as new data comes in.  

Flacco had a QBR of 102 when Garrett was in the game and a 62 when he wasn't. As per the Can't Wait Podcast

[jgb]

13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I thought Flacco was washed until he did what he did this Sunday.

I have proven to have the ability to change my viewpoint as new data comes in.  

HYPOCRITE HATER!!!!

[batman10023]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Source?  

There may not be.  

But it was called a 2-4 week injury.  4 weeks has come and gone.

Saleh has publicly said he did not have a setback related to the knee.

So without confirmation from the team that Zach's knee did in fact have a setback, or is not healing as fast as their medical staff believed it would, the claim you're making is as much speculation as any other.  

Reasonable speculation, absolutely, but still speculation.

The team has done an absolutely awful job communicating why our #1 QB isn't starting when, based on their statements, he should be.

they said he's not going to start until next week.  you may disagree and speculate all you want but why not wait for about 7 days and see who is taking the reps.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

This was your quote - QB is about production and hey, they got stats for that. So I gave you the ultimate stat 

Sample size my good man.

[56mehl56]

Just now, jgb said:

Sample size my good man.

Oh sample size works for the lack of Flacco wins but its ok in judging Zach on 5 PS game throws . 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

Oh sample size works for the lack of Flacco wins but its ok in judging Zach on 5 PS game throws . 

I never commented on Flacco so… if you want to debate against Flacco’s greatness, you should go find someone who actually holds that view.

And PS: BYU didn’t hatch from an egg this off season. We have nearly a full year on him.

[Jetsfan80]

9 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

It’s definitely silly but “he’s scheduled to return to within the allotted period of his recovery” is a weird reason to think the coaching staff doesn’t have faith in him.

It's not a lock he returns to the starting lineup in Week 5.  Until it is....there are question marks.  

[56mehl56]

Just now, jgb said:

I never commented on Flacco so… if you want to debate against Flacco’s greatness, you should go find someone who actually holds that view.

But you touted QB performance and stats and if you never commented on Flacco . I guess you mean Zach Wilson and the massive 13 game sample size he had from last season . 

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Flacco had a QBR of 102 when Garrett was in the game and a 62 when he wasn't. As per the Can't Wait Podcast

Fair.  But Zach Wilson also failed to hit a 62 QB Rating in 4 games last season, and his season-long QB Rating was 69.7.  

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

But you touted QB performance and stats and if you never commented on Flacco . I guess you mean Zach Wilson and the massive 13 game sample size he had from last season . 

We’ve gone over this 1,000 times. There is scant precedent for QBs with nearly-as-bad first years (he was historically terrible so hard to find many equally bad) that have become good. And an absolute mountain of examples where they do not.

Whether I watched a snap of his play or not, my belief would be the same. 

[ZachEY]

26 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I think looking at QB’s in the draft next year has to be a given. 

I think we all felt this way when it was Darnold and Sanchez too.  Hell, we felt that way when it was Hackenberg.  But, we didn't.

[Warfish]

10 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

they said he's not going to start until next week.  you may disagree and speculate all you want but why not wait for about 7 days and see who is taking the reps.

I believe if you read the entire thread (Big ask, I know, given how some of us prattle on) you'd see I said effectively the same thing several times.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Fair.  But Zach Wilson also failed to hit a 62 QB Rating in 4 games last season, and his season-long QB Rating was 69.7.  

If they’d just say “you know what, I know what the math says but I’m a Jets fan and I choose hope” without trashing those who go with the math, both camps could co-exist.

[kdels62]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's not a lock he returns to the starting lineup in Week 5.  Until it is....there are question marks.  

If he’s not playing in week 4 then there are question marks. For now there’s baseless speculation. 

[jamesr]

Lets see.
Zach Wilson, the clearly better QB, has:
-Never had a 300 yard game.
-Never thrown more than 2 TDs, let alone 4 TDs.
-Never had a passer rating above 100.

So ... do we not play him until he does have a great game like that? Which guarantees he'll never have a game like that?

Saleh will not get fired if he starts Zach and Zach has a rocky start. Even if he's up and down most of the year.

Saleh will not lose the locker room either. The team knows the situation and I'm sure there will be plenty of communication about such a change as and when it comes along.

The whole narrative that this will be Saleh vs. The World when Zach starts is totally overblown (in my humble opinion). The Jets are a TEAM ... they play for each other, they support each other through good and bad. Players, coaches, front office. This isn't "win now". This isn't "Play-offs or bust". Everyone seems to have bought into that - and I'm sure that if some haven't, they're a small minority that will need to keep their views to themselves.


Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

I think we all felt this way when it was Darnold and Sanchez too.  Hell, we felt that way when it was Hackenberg.  But, we didn't.

Plllleeeeease don’t forget Geno

[batman10023]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

If Zach is not producing/reaching certain basic metrics for QB play, yes, I will be critical of his lack of production/performance.

5,100 yards/season is very much not one of those metrics, as I think you well know.

Zach should produce in a way that would give observers faith that he is a forthcoming franchise QB. 

Not a game manager or a 37 year old has-been. 

And he needs to do it now, or as close to now as possible.  Not "some day, over the rainbow". 

I'm sorry, but my patience for him is simply not the same as yours.  Same as it wasn't the same when it was Darnold in this spot, and these same debates occurred.

Zach needs to outperform/outproduce Flacco, or Zach should not IMO be starting.

My standards are even lower, a QB should be accountable for their own level of play.  Wins and losses are team stats.

 

patience?  he's played 12 games in his career.  give him this year, if he doesn't improve (significantly) versus last year then we bring in real competition next year.

what exactly did you expect him to do last year.  our roster was terrible.

and what is wrong with a game manager, we haven't gotten that in years.