Saleh's press conference - Sounds like Flacco does have a shot to be the qb this year

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

If he’s not playing in week 4 then there are question marks. For now there’s baseless speculation. 

Baseless? Oh please share why the question marks aren’t “baseless” until the magical mark of week 4.

[ZachEY]

17 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Because he had a bad rookie season, then that's it? He's done? No need for any more playing time?  And exactly, he's unknown because we haven't seen if he's improved or not.  If the Flacco miracle isn't happening, then yes, Zach will be in there. 

If he doesn't earn it, no, there is no more need.  If he does, then yes, we should see more of him.

And again, there's no we.  You and I don't need to know if he's better.  The coaching staff - they need to know.  What if they think they already do?

[Claymation]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Fair.  But Zach Wilson also failed to hit a 62 QB Rating in 4 games last season, and his season-long QB Rating was 69.7.  

I want to see Zach with this group of weapons, I have no opinion either way about him. 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

what exactly did you expect him to do last year.  our roster was terrible.

Darnold's roster was even worse yet there were clear signs he sucked all the same.

[kdels62]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

Baseless? Oh please share why the question marks aren’t “baseless” until the magical mark of week 4.

Question marks about the coaching staffs opinion of Zach Wilson or Zach Wilson’s ability to heal are baseless until they shutdown a healthy Wilson or if Wilson takes 10 weeks to return from a 6 week injury. 

[jgb]

Just now, kdels62 said:

Question marks about the coaching staffs opinion of Zach Wilson or Zach Wilson’s ability to heal are baseless until they shutdown a healthy Wilson or if Wilson takes 10 weeks to return from a 6 week injury. 

To be fair if they don’t want to play him week 4 they’ll just say he’s not fully healed. Soo…. 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Darnold's roster was even worse yet there were clear signs he sucked all the same.

Yes and those signs are called “sucking.”

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

JD and BS have essentially taken the view of assuming Kapono "is the guy, until proven otherwise" when it should be the opposite:

-- Take nothing for granted

-- If you still have to ask whether he's "the guy", that means he's not (or at least not yet)

Until Kapono proves himself, it will always be a judgment call.

I mean you could literally keep trotting out every QB who has sucked over his 13 games or whatever and test out your theory as to whether the guy is good (enough) or not.  At some point, you have to make a decision.

The Cardinals cut bait on Rosen after 1 season.  I don't see anybody killing them for that by claiming they weren't patient enough with him.

It's not fair to the rest of the locker or the fans to sacrifice wins on a QB experiment just because the coach and GM want to be proven right.

[Claymation]

Who do you think will have the final say on when Zach starts, Robert or Joe Douglas?

[kdels62]

Just now, jgb said:

To be fair if they don’t want to play him week 4 they’ll just say he’s not fully healed. Soo…. 

Yeah and then there will be questions about Wilson’s physical ability until his mom leaks that he’s healthy and then itll be clear they think he sucks.

[56mehl56]

14 minutes ago, jgb said:

We’ve gone over this 1,000 times. There is scant precedent for QBs with nearly-as-bad first years (he was historically terrible so hard to find many equally bad) that have become good. And an absolute mountain of examples where they do not.

Whether I watched a snap of his play or not, my belief would be the same. 

And yes all based on an incredibly small sample size . 

[jgb]

Just now, kdels62 said:

Yeah and then there will be questions about Wilson’s physical ability until his mom leaks that he’s healthy and then itll be clear they think he sucks.

For me not so concerned about when/if he comes back from the injury to think he sucks. His actual sucking in 2021 is more important in informing my opinion.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

And yes all based on an incredibly small sample size . 

It’s like 100 dudes………. Maybe more.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Claymation said:

Who do you think will have the final say on when Zach starts, Robert or Joe Douglas?

Zach's mom.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Zach's mom.

8/1 she’s banging Steve Young

[56mehl56]

Just now, jgb said:

It’s like 100 dudes………. Maybe more.

Yes based on 1st season which at best is now 17 games. So small sample size . 

[kdels62]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

For me not so concerned about when/if he comes back from the injury to think he sucks. His actual sucking in 2021 is more important in informing my opinion.

13 games is too small of a sample size. Get me to 26 games and I’ll gladly move on if he still sucks. Heck if the next 5 look like the first 13 it might be enough. 

[batman10023]

10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Darnold's roster was even worse yet there were clear signs he sucked all the same.

Darnold played well like the last 4 games of the season to give you hope.  Wilson did the same thing.

I don't want to give Wilson a pass on this year.    I don't expect the Jets will either.  

the debate is probably how much improvement do we need to see in order to not bring a real competition next summer.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, kdels62 said:

13 games is too small of a sample size. Get me to 26 games and I’ll gladly move on if he still sucks. Heck if the next 5 look like the first 13 it might be enough. 

Again, I’m looking at the sample size of like 100 highly-drafted QBs of which like 60 have bombed their first year and never became good and like 2 have.

[FTL Jet Fan]

 

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Yes based on 1st season which at best is now 17 games. So small sample size . 

Pick a number for a charity bet man. I’m confident in my eval. How confident are you in yours?

[ZachEY]

19 minutes ago, jgb said:

Plllleeeeease don’t forget Geno

I don't see the Geno situation the same way you do.  Geno got far less time - it didn't drag on.  It was actually handled fairly appropriately, all things considered.

[batman10023]

11 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

JD and BS have essentially taken the view of assuming Kapono "is the guy, until proven otherwise" when it should be the opposite:

-- Take nothing for granted

-- If you still have to ask whether he's "the guy", that means he's not (or at least not yet)

Until Kapono proves himself, it will always be a judgment call.

I mean you could literally keep trotting out every QB who has sucked over his 13 games or whatever and test out your theory as to whether the guy is good (enough) or not.  At some point, you have to make a decision.

The Cardinals cut bait on Rosen after 1 season.  I don't see anybody killing them for that by claiming they weren't patient enough with him.

It's not fair to the rest of the locker or the fans to sacrifice wins on a QB experiment just because the coach and GM want to be proven right.

they also had the first pick of the draft.  big difference.

if we have the first pick of the draft next year, we are taking a QB.  actually my guess is if we are in the top 3 we are taking a QB.

[ZachEY]

20 minutes ago, jamesr said:

So ... do we not play him until he does have a great game like that? Which guarantees he'll never have a game like that?

Saleh will not get fired if he starts Zach and Zach has a rocky start. Even if he's up and down most of the year.

Saleh will not lose the locker room either. The team knows the situation and I'm sure there will be plenty of communication about such a change as and when it comes along.

The whole narrative that this will be Saleh vs. The World when Zach starts is totally overblown (in my humble opinion). The Jets are a TEAM ... they play for each other, they support each other through good and bad. Players, coaches, front office. This isn't "win now". This isn't "Play-offs or bust". Everyone seems to have bought into that - and I'm sure that if some haven't, they're a small minority that will need to keep their views to themselves.

We should play him if the coaches believe he can and will develop into a quality NFL QB and/or because he gives us the best chance to win.  Not simply because he exists.

[56mehl56]

Just now, jgb said:

Again, I’m looking at the sample size of 100 highly-drafted QBs of which like 60 have bombed their first year and never become good and like 2 have.

Yeah I know but in Zach';s case it's a mere 13 games with a first Time HC , first time OC , dead QB coach , new offensive system ,poor skill position group . How many of those 100 fit those criteria ( minus QB coach obviously) . Granted most highly drafted QB's are on poor teams but how many were basically starting over. Stats are meaningless w/o context. 

[doitny]

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Now you have me.  

Are you saying Joe Flacco was good week 1?

why was he bad? cause we lost 24-9 ? 

cause he only threw 1 TD?

again, 2 drives killed 1 by the Hall fumble at the 16. thats points lost that has nothing to do with Flacco.  that was a 75 yd drive that he got 66 of those yds and no points. 

Conklin killed a 1st down at the 21 cause of his fumble. we had to settle for 3 points. 

Carter drops a TD and we turn it over on downs. do you remember how wide open he was? that was a 62 yd drive killed.

im not sure what QB can win with the drive killing redzone killing mistakes. 

TB12 couldnt win this game. i mean look at these mistakes. they all came on critical plays. Carters drop was on 4th down. Conklin fumble on 3rd down. there wasnt even another play for Flacco to right the ship. 

 

[jgb]

Just now, ZachEY said:

I don't see the Geno situation the same way you do.  Geno got far less time - it didn't drag on.  It was actually handled fairly appropriately, all things considered.

He did us that favor 

Yet, he has defenders still and thus I cannot rest.

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

Yeah I know but in Zach';s case it's a mere 13 games with a first Time HC , first time OC , dead QB coach , new offensive system ,poor skill position group . How many of those 100 fit those criteria ( minus QB coach obviously) . Granted most highly drafted QB's are on poor teams but how many were basically starting over. Stats are meaningless w/o context. 

Good post.  Perhaps in hindsight Zach should have been on the bench last year.  Besides everything you just mentioned he didn't play for a big time program against high caliber competition.   Perhaps now that the coaching staff aren't rookies they won't make another rookie error in developing Zach.  

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Yeah I know but in Zach';s case it's a mere 13 games with a first Time HC , first time OC , dead QB coach , new offensive system ,poor skill position group . How many of those 100 fit those criteria ( minus QB coach obviously) . Granted most highly drafted QB's are on poor teams but how many were basically starting over. Stats are meaningless w/o context. 

The point of stats over a significant population is that they account for context. That’s their raison d’être.

[T0mShane]

23 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

6 week injury. 

This number keeps growing, fyi

[kdels62]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Again, I’m looking at the sample size of 100 highly-drafted QBs of which like 60 have bombed their first year and never become good and like 2 have.

Most highly drafted QBs suck regardless of their rookie year performances. Who’s actually good is more obvious after 2 seasons. Is there a measurable stat that says no QB has ever been this bad after 13 games and recovery to be above average? 

[T0mShane]

9 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

We should play him if the coaches believe he can and will develop into a quality NFL QB and/or because he gives us the best chance to win.  Not simply because he exists.

One wonders what Saleh can do if he outs Zach in and four weeks later the offense is dead in the water. Does he sit him down? Would be be allowed to sit him down? 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

10 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

Darnold played well like the last 4 games of the season to give you hope.  Wilson did the same thing.

I don't want to give Wilson a pass on this year.    I don't expect the Jets will either.  

the debate is probably how much improvement do we need to see in order to not bring a real competition next summer.

Exactly.

The difference is Joe Douglas finds it extremely difficult to quit his own draft picks.  I mean Denzel Mims is still hanging on somehow, even though he may never even suit for a game all year.

Douglas is going to hold out hope for Kapono until the clock literally runs out, either on Kapono's contract or on Douglas' own Jets' tenure.

[kdels62]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This number keeps growing, fyi

Post surgery a national guy reported 4-8 weeks. But we were like “nah dude someone said 2 weeks before surgery so that’s the answer.”

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Most highly drafted QBs suck regardless of their rookie year performances. Who’s actually good is more obvious after 2 seasons. Is there a measurable stat that says no QB has ever been this bad after 13 games and recovery to be above average? 

Ok I’m in on that. Most suck. So then why the hate for fans who just play the odds?