103 vs. 30. Update after Week 3; 155 vs. 50

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

I suspect this to be more accurate.

Old Man Flacco's arm isn't threatening anyone. Teams can stack the box against him.  

Won't be able to do that against the big ZW.  Too much of a threat to take the top off the defense.

Oh wow. 

[SuicidalSince98]

44 minutes ago, Lurker89 said:

I never said they couldn't run the ball because they were down one score you troglodyte, that was some other smoothbrain you were arguing with.   Down one score please establish the run. Use it to open up some play action or get them to respect the run enough to open up the passing game in general. Thanks for the lesson in football 101 though.

You are strawmanning me when I simply said you don't understand the basic meaning of words if you are going to say they were not playing from behind.... because they were from the first score in both games.

Do you walk around interpreting everything 100% literally like a 4 year old? 

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Oh wow. 

Did he just call him “big?”

[Lurker89]

11 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Do you walk around interpreting everything 100% literally like a 4 year old? 

Yes... do you walk around saying dumb **** and expecting no one to poke fun the dumb ****  you say ....

"tHeY HaVe noT bEeN pLAyiNg FrOm BeHiNd bOTh GaMes"

Really helping your point that we should establish the run .... which no one disagrees with ....

[JiF]

4 hours ago, PepPep said:

Deceiving stats. The Jets run game had some positive plays but for the most part ot was shut down early.

Seems like those stats are boosted from the Jets playing from behind. 

Jets CLEARLY tried to establish the run early in both games - AND FAILED. 

The Pass game proved to be pretty successful. More so against the Browns in their epic comeback. But if it aint broke, don't fix it. 

Do I want the Jets to have a balanced attack? Of course. But I've seen them try to force the run in the past and end up just punting drive after drive after drive. I'm glad we are finally airing it out. And we have the weapons to do so. If the run aint working, pass the ball.  

I swear, Jet fans. If its not one thing, its another. lmfao. 

yeah, no. 

The run game was working early and often. (t was the passing game the let the Jets down vs. the Browns.  When they were balanced, they moved the ball.  

First possession vs. the Browns.  Carter 1 yard, Hall 8 yards, the passing game FAILED to pick up 1 yard.  

Second possession. Reverse w/ Wilson.  Pass, Pass 1st down. Pass. Carter 8 yards. 3rd and 2, passing game FAILED to pic up 2 yards.  Fake punt.  Hall no gain.  Pass, Pass, Hall 23 yard run.  Hall no gain, pass, pass TD from 2 yards.

Third possession.  pass - sack, pass 17 yards.  Hall 6 yards.  Berrios 19 yards. Carter 6 yards and a face mask.  No gain Carter, pass, pass Flacco fumbles on the Clev.  12 yard line. leaving points on the field.

4th possession was a studly 2 minute drill, all passes by Flacco.

2nd Half.  End around, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, Carter 4 yards, pass, pass, Punt.

Next possession, Carter 4 yards. pass, pass, Hall 4 yards, pass, pass, Carter 10 yard, Carter 4 yards, pass, pass, pass, FG.

Next possession.  pass, pass, pass, Punt. 

Next possession, pass, pass, pass, Punt.  scored was 24-17. Browns scored and the miracle happened.

 

 

 

 

[The Crusher]

24 minutes ago, jgb said:

Did he just call him “big?”

No, but don't let that stop you.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

No, but dont let stop you.

Look again!

[jgb]

11 minutes ago, Lurker89 said:

Yes... do you walk around saying dumb **** and expecting no one to poke fun the dumb ****  you say ....

"tHeY HaVe noT bEeN pLAyiNg FrOm BeHiNd bOTh GaMes"

Really helping your point that we should establish the run .... which no one disagrees with ....

The Jets also have never played on Mars.

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, Lurker89 said:

@FidelioJet remember when we used to argue ... we had fun once you realized not to take me seriously or personally.

 

I still miss dragging @DefenseWinsChampionships85 over Jamallpro ... he took everything personally...made it so much more fun.

 

Hey. Screw you man! That’s messed up!

(better?)

[Lurker89]

18 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Hey. Screw you man! That’s messed up!

(better?)

[Hex]

8 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Jets currently have three sacks, total, on the season 

The Browns have one of the best OLs, and Ravens I think are top 10

[doitny]

7 hours ago, jgb said:

‘Member when all the geniuses said we’d be a run-first team?

we will be when Zach gets back. there is no way there going to make him throw 30-40 times a game.

thats when you start seeing runs on 3rd and 4 in the 4th qt. 

[Lupz27]

10 hours ago, JiFapono said:

Is the number of pass attempts vs. rushing attempts after 2 games.  I realize they've been playing from behind in both games but that has to change.  Carter is averaging 4.9 ypc and Hall is averaging 5.6 ypc.  I'd argue, the offensive line on paper is better suited to run block vs pass block.  With the emergence of Wilson, the threat of Davis/Moore to stretch the field, the Bengals should be a little bit more hesitant to sell out vs. the run.  Hopefully seeing less 8/9 men boxes, asking Flacco to throw the ball 40+ times a game is not a recipe for success.  I'd really like to see more balance from this offense.  I know score/situation dictates play calling but there were way too many calls IMO (and I like Lil Mikey) where they were running 5 wide, or motioning a RB out wide and not even giving the threat of the run, which I just think is a missed opportunity when you have backs like Carter and Hall.   Seeing that they brought Ty Johnson to pass block on a few plays, they might be concerned with Carter/Hall's ability to pick up the blitz but I really think they need to do a better job of committing to the run game to prevent from having to play from behind each week.

 

 

Just win games don’t care how it gets done.  I’ve watched the Patriots run the ball 85% one game and throw 90% another game both ending in big victories.  

[FTL Jet Fan]

10 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Bengals have been pretty stout against the run and Burrow is going to light this defense up anyway, so it’s unlikely we see a ton of rushing attempts this week. 

Wait until we play the Dolphins, Hill 190 yards, Waddle 170yds. We are going to be last in the division so none of this matters. You better hope Wilson is the answer if not we will be at the bottom of the AFC E for a long time. Pray that you are right about Mike W. 

[nj meadowlands]

10 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

• The Fant penalty that negated Carter's 24-yard run was when the score was tied 17-17.

Just re-watched some pieces of the game, including this.  It was 17-14 at the time, and the first play of the fourth quarter. Carter went off tackle left and got it all the way down to the Browns' 5 yard line, and Fant was flagged for an absolute nonsense phantom holding call.  Saleh rightfully was losing his mind on the official.  I remember wanting to melt into the floor at that point.  Lol

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

Just re-watched some pieces of the game, including this.  It was 17-14 at the time, and the first play of the fourth quarter. Carter went off tackle left and got it all the way down to the Browns' 5 yard line, and Fant was flagged for an absolute nonsense phantom holding call.  Saleh rightfully was losing his mind on the official.  I remember wanting to melt into the floor at that point.  Lol

I didn’t remember the score I was going off a website play by play. Either way it was still a close game (Cle not sitting back in prevent).

[JiF]

9 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Just win games don’t care how it gets done.  I’ve watched the Patriots run the ball 85% one game and throw 90% another game both ending in big victories.  

This would a good point if BB was the coach, the Jets had the Patriots D and the Jets, just won games.  But they dont have or do any of those things and it took a miracle to pull off a win.  The reason they were very fortunate to pull of a win is because the passing game failed them for 58 minutes.  A better way to "just win" is to have a balanced attack and not ask the corpse of Joe Flacco to throw it 40+ times a game.

 

[Bruce Harper]

If we can somehow manage to get a lead you will see a lot more of the running game. 

[NYJCAP2]

Jets still leading the league in passing attempts through 3 weeks. No balance what so ever.

Excellent recipe for when Wilson comes back, I would be prepared for the INTS to start piling up unfortunately.

 

 

 

[JiF]

Update; 155 pass attempts vs. 50 rush attempts, w/ Joe Flacco at QB.

 

[Bugg]

1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

Update; 155 pass attempts vs. 50 rush attempts, w/ Joe Flacco at QB.

 

Hard to get a handle on it because they're behind all 2nd half, and by a lot. Seemed like they had some limited success running early. But once again,2nd half,  down big, have no alternative but to throw a lot. 

[JiF]

2 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Hard to get a handle on it because they're behind all 2nd half, and by a lot. Seemed like they had some limited success running early. But once again,2nd half,  down big, have no alternative but to throw a lot. 

Meh, they were never so far out of this game that they had to abandon the run. 

[Bugg]

12 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Meh, they were never so far out of this game that they had to abandon the run. 

2nd half, Bengals had 27 points early in 3rd,and Jets were doing almsot nothing offensively. Unless the goal was to help the Bengals run the clock and get everyone home early, kinda had no choice but to throw. The run/pass ratio is pretty far down the list of why thsi team sucks right now. 

[JiF]

32 minutes ago, Bugg said:

2nd half, Bengals had 27 points early in 3rd,and Jets were doing almsot nothing offensively. Unless the goal was to help the Bengals run the clock and get everyone home early, kinda had no choice but to throw. The run/pass ratio is pretty far down the list of why thsi team sucks right now. 

I dont really understand what 27 points has to do with it, they were only down 2  TD's w/ plenty of time on the clock.  They had the ball w/ 4 minutes left and were receiving at the start of the half.    A stop wasnt e even required at that point, so they could have still run the ball and provided a balanced attack.  There was no reason to once again, abandon the run. 

The very first drive of the game, 7 passes to 3 runs and they had 14 yards on those 3 runs, 4.6 per.  Recover the fumble.  Pass, run, run, passing game cant pick up a 3rd and 5.  3rd drive now down 14 to 6, a once score game;  2 runs, 6 passes and a punt.  Then, before the half, the D gave them the ball TWICE, to try and make it a once score game, it was not a 2 minute situation, they offense could run their regular play book, over those 2 possession?  2 runs for 10 yards, 8 throws for 14 yards.  2 punts. 

There was no excuse yesterday.

 

 

 

[Bugg]

Just now, JiFapono said:

I dont really understand what 27 points has to do with it, they were only down 2  TD's w/ plenty of time on the clock.  They had the ball w/ 4 minutes left and were receiving at the start of the half.    A stop was required either way so they could have still run the ball and provided a balanced attack.  There was no reason to once again, abandon the run. 

The very first drive of the game, 7 passes to 3 runs and they had 14 yards on those 3 runs, 4.6 per.  Recover the fumble.  Pass, run, run, passing game cant pick up a 3rd and 5.  3rd drive now down 14 to 6, a once score game;  2 runs, 6 passes and a punt.  Then, before the half, the D gave them the ball TWICE, to try and make it a once score game, it was not a 2 minute situation, they offense could run their regular play book, over those 2 possession?  2 runs for 10 yards, 8 throws for 14 yards.  2 punts. 

There was no excuse yesterday.

 

 

 

Needed 3 TDs to win the game. Only so many drives left with around 20-25 minutes of football. Passing completions move the ball up the field very quickly, incompletions stop the clock, and running plays keep it running. Can't stop you form thinking failure to run late in the game is the problem but would suggest you are missing the forest while looking at trees on the periphery. As others have noted, if you think the big problem is failing to establish the run, it isn't 1975. The rules as enforced beg you to pass.  When your offense consists of 3 FGs, you aren't winning. And this team does not have a QB. Joe Flacco, game as he is, is a statue. 

We are all talking around the problem, the forest; our supposed savior of QB taken at the top of the draft is not on the field and so far not any good. And pretty much everything else flows downhill from that.

[JiF]

Just now, Bugg said:

Needed 3 TDs to win the game. Only so many drives left with around 20-25 minutes of football. Passing completions move the ball up the field very quickly, incompletions stop the clock, and running plays keep it running. Can't stop you form thinking failure to run late in the game is the problem but would suggest you are missing the forest while looking at trees on the periphery. As others have noted, if you think the big problem is failing to establish the run, it isn't 1975. The rules as enforced beg you to pass.  When your offense consists of 3 FGs, you aren't winning. And this team does not have a QB. Joe Flacco, game as he is, is a statue. 

We are all talking around the problem, the forest; our supposed savior of QB taken at the top of the draft is not on the field and so far not any good. And pretty much everything else flows downhill from that.

I mean, I just laid it out for you.  lol  This has nothing to do with situations.  It's from the onset of the game plan.  I literally just gave you the first 5 drives of the game, first half, dude....you dont abandon the run in the first half down 2 scores when you're getting the ball to start the second half.

We can agree to disagree here but there isnt anything to disagree w/ as the game plan has clearly been to throw the ball a sh*t ton.   23 passes vs. 9 carries in the first half, Bugg, my man, that's game planning, not situational play calling.  There was absolutely nothing happening to require that approach. 

 

[#27TheDominator]

58 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I mean, I just laid it out for you.  lol  This has nothing to do with situations.  It's from the onset of the game plan.  I literally just gave you the first 5 drives of the game, first half, dude....you dont abandon the run in the first half down 2 scores when you're getting the ball to start the second half.

We can agree to disagree here but there isnt anything to disagree w/ as the game plan has clearly been to throw the ball a sh*t ton.   23 passes vs. 9 carries in the first half, Bugg, my man, that's game planning, not situational play calling.  There was absolutely nothing happening to require that approach. 

 

I don't have a problem with it.  Everybody is killing everybody know.  I still like Lafleur.  I don't see an issue with throwing on every down as long as you are not getting turnovers.  This week Flacco turned it over, so it was problematic, but I don't that was an issue in the other games. 

I think the board wildly overrates where Hall is right now.  I think he will be good, but I don't think we can be feeding him carries right now and I don't think Carter is much of a bell cow.  The line is in a bit of a shambles and running it isn't going to fix that. 

I think that as the year progresses Hall will improve and they will even things out.  They will have a big running game or two and people will say: "See?  I told you!"   I think that will be the result of suffering through some of this.  They don't run much and they still have negative plays.  That end around-y thing to Berrios was horrible.  

I don't know what to make of Saleh or Ulbrich, but I do think they are only a few plays from being right in these games.  Some of that is luck, some of it is coaching and some is talent level.  The problem with reading anything into that is that the league is designed for parity, so that is the way it is supposed to be and we still aren't particularly close.   Things were so bad last week I was shocked they didn't go to White.   Saleh seems like an "attitude" coach.  The D seems like it needs some more scheme, but the team does generally seem to stick together.  Next week will be an interesting test.  Tough to say if the Bengals are a good team getting right or are sh*t, but there is no reason to flop against Trubisky.

[JiF]

17 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't have a problem with it.  Everybody is killing everybody know.  I still like Lafleur.  I don't see an issue with throwing on every down as long as you are not getting turnovers.  This week Flacco turned it over, so it was problematic, but I don't that was an issue in the other games. 

I think the board wildly overrates where Hall is right now.  I think he will be good, but I don't think we can be feeding him carries right now and I don't think Carter is much of a bell cow.  The line is in a bit of a shambles and running it isn't going to fix that. 

I think that as the year progresses Hall will improve and they will even things out.  They will have a big running game or two and people will say: "See?  I told you!"   I think that will be the result of suffering through some of this.  They don't run much and they still have negative plays.  That end around-y thing to Berrios was horrible.  

I don't know what to make of Saleh or Ulbrich, but I do think they are only a few plays from being right in these games.  Some of that is luck, some of it is coaching and some is talent level.  The problem with reading anything into that is that the league is designed for parity, so that is the way it is supposed to be and we still aren't particularly close.   Things were so bad last week I was shocked they didn't go to White.   Saleh seems like an "attitude" coach.  The D seems like it needs some more scheme, but the team does generally seem to stick together.  Next week will be an interesting test.  Tough to say if the Bengals are a good team getting right or are sh*t, but there is no reason to flop against Trubisky.

I do, it's not a recipe for success and the results would back me up, so I disagree it hasnt been problematic.  12 and 9 points at home vs. is very problematic.  And they had, what?  17 before the miracle?   And Flacco has turned it over in every game this season.  He has 6 turnovers and 5 TD's.  He's completing 58%.  I'm sorry, there is just nothing to justify this type of unbalance, miracle comeback be damned.  

Hall is averaging 5.3 per carry.  Carter 4.4.  Hard to overrate either when they're not really getting the ball enough and that's my frustration.  There is just no reason to be throwing the ball like this w/ Flacco. 

Do you think this trend continues when Wilson is back?  Is that a good thing?

 

 

[Claymation]

On 9/20/2022 at 10:18 AM, Barry McCockinner said:

I agree, we have to stop playing from behind.

Still when you are averaging 3.8 yards per carry and the OC is calling pass play after pass play one need to question the play selection. Especially when Reader was out.

[Barry McCockinner]

1 minute ago, Claymation said:

Still when you are averaging 3.8 yards per carry and the OC is calling pass play after pass play one need to question the play selection. Especially when Reader was out.

I agree. I was literally being a smart ass agreeing w/the 2nd sentence in the OP. We're on pace to break the NFL record in pass attempts with 37 year old Joe Flacco being the QB the first 3 games.

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I do, it's not a recipe for success and the results would back me up, so I disagree it hasnt been problematic.  12 and 9 points at home vs. is very problematic.  And they had, what?  17 before the miracle?   And Flacco has turned it over in every game this season.  He has 6 turnovers and 5 TD's.  He's completing 58%.  I'm sorry, there is just nothing to justify this type of unbalance, miracle comeback be damned.  

Hall is averaging 5.3 per carry.  Carter 4.4.  Hard to overrate either when they're not really getting the ball enough and that's my frustration.  There is just no reason to be throwing the ball like this w/ Flacco. 

Do you think this trend continues when Wilson is back?  Is that a good thing?

 

 

Rush average is skewed to when they’re running.  When you’re down 27-9 with 10 minutes left and you run a draw you’re more likely to get 5 yards than in the first quarter when the score is tied.  

Also difficult to assess much with flacco in there b/c he changes how the d plays.  Truth they’re lucky they won a game with him, he’s terrible and should not be playing. 

[JiF]

15 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Rush average is skewed to when they’re running.  When you’re down 27-9 with 10 minutes left and you run a draw you’re more likely to get 5 yards than in the first quarter when the score is tied.  

Also difficult to assess much with flacco in there b/c he changes how the d plays.  Truth they’re lucky they won a game with him, he’s terrible and should not be playing. 

It's really not though, I've gone through this, they're producing in the first half just as much as the second. 

[#27TheDominator]

16 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I do, it's not a recipe for success and the results would back me up, so I disagree it hasnt been problematic.  12 and 9 points at home vs. is very problematic.  And they had, what?  17 before the miracle?   And Flacco has turned it over in every game this season.  He has 6 turnovers and 5 TD's.  He's completing 58%.  I'm sorry, there is just nothing to justify this type of unbalance, miracle comeback be damned.  

Hall is averaging 5.3 per carry.  Carter 4.4.  Hard to overrate either when they're not really getting the ball enough and that's my frustration.  There is just no reason to be throwing the ball like this w/ Flacco. 

Do you think this trend continues when Wilson is back?  Is that a good thing?

 

 

I have not done a study on the plays, but I don't think the issue is ypc, but more negative plays.  Everybody hates it and complains, but I would run more on passing downs.  Both these guys have the ability to bust them long enough to convert 3rd and long.  Interesting that Hall is averaging so much more.  I am not really surprised, but I still feel like his learning his way.  He needs to clean up his receiving though.  I know he can catch, but he's missed a couple of gimmes. 

[johnnysd]

On 9/20/2022 at 7:13 AM, JiFapono said:

Is the number of pass attempts vs. rushing attempts after 2 games.  I realize they've been playing from behind in both games but that has to change.  Carter is averaging 4.9 ypc and Hall is averaging 5.6 ypc.  I'd argue, the offensive line on paper is better suited to run block vs pass block.  With the emergence of Wilson, the threat of Davis/Moore to stretch the field, the Bengals should be a little bit more hesitant to sell out vs. the run.  Hopefully seeing less 8/9 men boxes, asking Flacco to throw the ball 40+ times a game is not a recipe for success.  I'd really like to see more balance from this offense.  I know score/situation dictates play calling but there were way too many calls IMO (and I like Lil Mikey) where they were running 5 wide, or motioning a RB out wide and not even giving the threat of the run, which I just think is a missed opportunity when you have backs like Carter and Hall.   Seeing that they brought Ty Johnson to pass block on a few plays, they might be concerned with Carter/Hall's ability to pick up the blitz but I really think they need to do a better job of committing to the run game to prevent from having to play from behind each week.

 

 

I agree somewhat with the premise, but I disagree with the bolded. We are not very good at run blocking at T and we are fairly competent at pass blocking. I am not a fan of 5 wide, but our team is still far better suited for 11, 10 even 20 than 12 personnel. 

[NYJCAP2]

Only other teams in both categories, Chargers and Cardinals. But look at the talent at QB they have.

FWIW Jets bottom 5 in Rush attempts and middle of the pack in Y/A.