Poll: Has the Flacco delusion surpassed the Streveler Delusion?

[Warfish]

3 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I think "The Streveler Delusion" would make for an excellent Sci-Fi movie title.

You're aware that when I do a forum search for "Streveler", it's mostly your posts that come up, far more often than any other single poster.

[Biggs]

15 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I have to disagree with this take.

There are people here that clearly take pleasure when Zach fails and I have no doubt (literally ZERO) that they are actively rooting against him.

I know you're going to say that's not true (and I'm not saying you're one of them) but this blanket statement that everyone wants him to succeed, I do not believe in the slightest. 

They will never admit, but I am 100% certain - there are people that are sitting at home watching games and happy when he fails and upset when he does things well.

It's a 5th column of Jets fans who want Zach to fail so the Jets fail.  There's only one thing left to do captain.  Loyalty oaths and everyone unwilling to take it is rounded up and shot.  

And for the record.  Why is any Jets fan required to root for an individual player regardless of their performance?   If that was the case ever Zach Wilson ball washer should be washing the balls of every Jets player including Mims and Becton.  

In case you missed it Joe Flacco sucked after game 1 and was a pretty good NFL QB after game 2.   It's pretty reasonable to assume if Zach plays great he will be ballwashed by the masses.  

[FTL Jet Fan]

5 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

I’m not sure what’s delusional about Flacco.  We had an exciting victory which he played a nice game. Can we enjoy it a bit?

We can win the Super Bowl and nothing would change. Whoever the QB is it would be, he is not the long term solution it was a Trent Dilfer situation, our D bailed us out, we will never make it back to the big game with this guy. 

[FidelioJet]

25 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I think we need to differentiate between the vast majority, and the one off or the troll.

For any opinion, we likely have someone here who will espouse it.  Including rooting against Zach,

Or, right now, rooting against Flacco.

But the vast bulk of people here decried as "Zach haters" are not rooting against Zach.  

As has been said repeatedly, we have some Jets Fans who take out their disappointments on the Jets themselves, via criticism and analysis.

And we have some Jets fans who take out their disappointments on other Jets fans for not being as pro-Wilson, or Pro-"seeing what we got", or "pro-losing for draft picks" or whatever as they are. 

As if it were our fault Wilson played poorly, or got hurt.  This entire debate is just more of the same.

We do not decide how much time Zach gets, not does anything we say here matters.  Folks should keep that in mind.  We don't have to "give him a chance" or "give him more time", because we don't make that call.

While I agree that it's not the majority of "Zach haters" as you put it.  and I belive it is a small, yet vocal handful of fans on JetNation.  Moreover, I agree what we say or do here has zero impact on reality...

But with that said - that's what we do here.  It doesn't affect games and nothing we do or say will ever change anything...Let alone who the starting QB is.

But what ties us together and why we're all here is because we are big fans of the New York Jets - and if you claim to be a serious fan of this team - and actively root against it's #2 overall pick - QB....I'm allowed to call you out on it.  That's all it is and nothing more.

 

[Jet Nut]

43 minutes ago, RSJ said:

Maybe those team are just misguided all together. What makes a franchise QB? Is it winning? Stats? Because I see lots of different QBs making the playoffs and SB that dont put up great stats and I see lots of QBs that put up great stats that dont win. Like I said in earlier threads franchise QB is a term no one can really define because its ridiculous.

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Interesting question but I do think you know a FQB when you see one.  Can win you games and doesn’t lose them for you.  

[Biggs]

2 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

We can win the Super Bowl and nothing would change. Whoever the QB is it would be, he is not the long term solution it was a Trent Dilfer situation, our D bailed us out, we will never make it back to the big game with this guy. 

The long term solution is cremation.  There running out of land to bury Jets fans who have witnessed a SB.  

[TuscanyTile2]

8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

You're aware that when I do a forum search for "Streveler", it's mostly your posts that come up, far more often than any other single poster.

Try removing my name from "Search By Author"

 

[Warfish]

3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

But what ties us together and why we're all here is because we are big fans of the New York Jets - and if you claim to be a serious fan of this team - and actively root against it's #2 overall pick - QB....I'm allowed to call you out on it.  That all it is and nothing more.

Conversely, if you claim to be a big fan of this team - and actively root for losses or to sacrifice entire seasons to "see what you got" in one player, i.e. rooting against the other 52 players, the Coaches and Staff in order to promote one player - I'm allowed to call you out on that too.

"But. but, but, I only want long term success and a QB for a decade+ or it's all pointless and we should just lose" is the most cancerous mindset in all of sports.

[Bugg]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Both delusions are the product of Zach haters, many like yourself (and now lead by yourself) who never liked him, and absolutely refuse to even give him a chance.
 
The reality of the situation is that the former #2 pick with his $35M guaranteed needs to play so that they can make the determination whether he’s going to be the guy going forward or not. The best case scenario for the Jets is that Wilson is that guy. So that’s what I’m rooting for unless or until they make the decision to go in another direction. And that has nothing to do with my current opinion on his level of play so far. It appears that JD has provided the offense with weapons, so now it’s gonna be make or break for Zach. If you’re so convinced that he sucks, you should be happy for the reckoning that’s on its way. You’ll be in a position to bask in glory. 

Wilson needs to play only if the coaching staff and front think they need more data to figure out if he is in fact an NFL QB. Also, as per Saleh, the Jets doctors and his doctors, being a precious young boy, must both agree he's 110%. No way of knowing how much of the latter is a dodge on the former. 

Bluntly so far, WIlson has been terrible. Small sample, all that; but it's a small sample mostly because he's not on the field. That's a real problem with a QB.  Wilson was picked in a very funky COVID year for the draft. His contract means he will almost certainly be on the Jets roster another 2 years. Stands to reason he will at some point play. But fair to wonder in the Jets' CS and FO are going through the motions and already know what they  think and long term where this is headed.   And if Wilson and his family doctors, and Mom and Dad, and Steve Young, are looking at the exits. Meantime no point in devaluing an asset.

And above all that, if Flacco stays in the top half of QBs and wins NFL games(not  a guarantee, but a possible), not sure the above pretense is kept up much longer. Franchise that hasn't been to the playoffs in forever is not going to dump a QB that has them in a playoff slot. 

About weapons; if a QB cannot figure out how to make a go of it with these receivers, he isn't very good. Garrett Wilson specifically may be all that. 

[FidelioJet]

8 minutes ago, Biggs said:

It's a 5th column of Jets fans who want Zach to fail so the Jets fail.  There's only one thing left to do captain.  Loyalty oaths and everyone unwilling to take it is rounded up and shot.  

And for the record.  Why is any Jets fan required to root for an individual player regardless of their performance?   If that was the case ever Zach Wilson ball washer should be washing the balls of every Jets player including Mims and Becton.  

In case you missed it Joe Flacco sucked after game 1 and was a pretty good NFL QB after game 2.   It's pretty reasonable to assume if Zach plays great he will be ballwashed by the masses.  

There's a difference between being pissed, voicing displeasure with sh*tty performance and actively rooting against any Jet player.  Cheering for failure.    I just think it's weak...  

Complain all you want - when dealing with Zach everyone has every right to say he had a bad year last year  He did.  I haven't found anyone (including me) even attempt to dispute that.

Cheering for him to fail because you didn't want to draft him - is, IIMO, Weak.

 

 

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Conversely, if you claim to be a big fan of this team - and actively root for losses or to sacrifice entire seasons to "see what you got" in one player, i.e. rooting against the other 52 players, the Coaches and Staff in order to promote one player - I'm allowed to call you out on that too.

"But. but, but, I only want long term success and a QB for a decade+ or it's all pointless and we should just lose" is the most cancerous mindset in all of sports.

Well, sort of...

I mean, I think rebuilding is a necessary evil, something most teams need to go through on occasion - and in the Jets case - post Mac- needed a massive overhaul.  Sometimes that means not paying big $ to a QB as you clean sh*t up..

With that said, I think the Jets are past that point and should play the QB that gives them the past chance to win - I, also, happen to believe that player is Zach Wilson.  

If he plays, say his first 3 games or so, like he did the first half of last year - I'll be right there calling for Flacco to come back in.

[slats]

28 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Is that what you are rooting to have happen?

Because if you had written "Wilson is going to lay an egg his first week back", you can be assured the Zach "lovers" here would be claiming that you were actively rooting for that outcome.

Honestly, the idea of “Zach lovers,” here, in general, is completely absurd. That list is probably @Hal N of Provo. Here it’s mostly people who never gave him a chance in the first place and/or have completely given up on him by now vs. those who are still holding out some hope for him when he ultimately gets in the lineup this year. 
 
I believe the organization falls in the latter category. 

[doitny]

3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

There's a difference between being pissed, voicing displeasure with sh*tty performance and actively rooting against any Jet player.  Cheering for failure.    I just think it's weak...  

Complain all you want - when dealing with Zach everyone has every right to say he had a bad year last year  He did.  I haven't found anyone (including me) even attempt to dispute that.

Cheering for him to fail because you didn't want to draft him - is, IIMO, Weak.

 

 

i agree. but i think its going both ways

im sure there will be people actively rooting against Flacco this week so as to end any talk of sitting Zach more then he needs.

[Jet Nut]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Conversely, if you claim to be a big fan of this team - and actively root for losses or to sacrifice entire seasons to "see what you got" in one player, i.e. rooting against the other 52 players, the Coaches and Staff in order to promote one player - I'm allowed to call you out on that too.

"But. but, but, I only want long term success and a QB for a decade+ or it's all pointless and we should just lose" is the most cancerous mindset in all of sports.

Young QBs have to play.  It’s the only way they’re going to learn, to get used to the NFL game.  It’s how it works.  Few, a tiny fraction of drafted QBs can step in and play.  The see what you got line is a consequence, not a game plan.  You develop them and find their high water mark.  If that’s FQB great, if not move on.  The idea that winning 7 or whatever with a vet who’s just going to get you 7 wins is more important than winning 5 with a kid who may develop into a 12 win QB doesn’t make sense.  They’re trying to build a long term winner and you need a QB to get there

[slats]

12 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Bluntly so far, WIlson has been terrible. Small sample, all that; but it's a small sample mostly because he's not on the field. That's a real problem with a QB.  Wilson was picked in a very funky COVID year for the draft. His contract means he will almost certainly be on the Jets roster another 2 years.

We could’ve said the same thing about Darnold a couple years ago, but he was gone after three. 
 
My belief is that the franchise wants to see what they have in Wilson, and will, sooner rather than later. If they can come to the conclusion that he sucks this year, they can opt to cut bait next year. Obviously it would be a lot better if they came to the opposite conclusion but, either way, coming to a conclusion on Zach before this season is over should be -and I believe is- an organizational priority this season. 

[k-met57]

37 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Is that what you are rooting to have happen?

Because if you had written "Wilson is going to lay an egg his first week back", you can be assured the Zach "lovers" here would be claiming that you were actively rooting for that outcome.

Rooting has nothing to do with anything...you people are losing your minds over a guy who is 37 and 2 years removed from 3 years after he did anything. everyone loves the vinny story, but vinny threw 18 TD's the year before he came here....for context Flacco threw 20 once since 2015 (thats 7 years ago)....and had 15 coming into this year in 3 years...including Denver where they gave him every chance to play before replacing him.

and again, i dont care if Wilson sucks....happy to go into the draft next year with a QB in the crosshairs...but absolutely cannot go into next year saying, well Zach didnt play last year because Joe Flacco got us to 8-9/9-8....so now we need to play him and see what happens.

btw all of this is pointless because the Jets believe in Wilson and will start him, and thats all that matters....enjoy another week of old man river.

[PepPep]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The common denominator is both delusions are fueled by pro-Zach Wilson paranoiacs who don’t want to deal with the fact that Zach sucks. 

Please don't infect this non-Zach Wilson thread with Zach Wilson hate. 

I.E. Feel free to make a fresh Zach Wilson sucks thread. 

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The common denominator is both delusions are fueled by pro-Zach Wilson paranoiacs who don’t want to deal with the fact that Zach sucks. 

I don't know what you're complaining about.

[Warfish]

16 minutes ago, slats said:

Honestly, the idea of “Zach lovers,” here, in general, is completely absurd. That list is probably @Hal N of Provo. Here it’s mostly people who never gave him a chance in the first place and/or have completely given up on him by now vs. those who are still holding out some hope for him when he ultimately gets in the lineup this year. 
 
I believe the organization falls in the latter category. 

See it's funny, of course you see it this way.  

Same way I see the rational side of the so-called "Zach haters" far better than you do.

We all see our "side" more clearly than the other.

And our side is almost always less extreme that the other side makes us out to be (T0m excluded).

Ultimately, trying to speak for a large community in general terms is fail, we have extremists, fools and hyperbole at both extremes, and a whole bunch of less extreme folks at varying shades of the middle (hmm, this seems familiar....)

I just want to win some damn games, and have good QB doing it.  The rest will sort itself out, and it isn't my job to plan for some far off future nor to willing sacrifice multiple years so someone else can enjoy a Super Bowl in 2053 after I'm long gone.  So just win.  Whatever that takes.

[PepPep]

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Has the Flacco delusion surpassed the Streveler Delusion?

Please leave the HOF'er out of this thread. 

I've seen Flacco suck a** against the Ravens.

Until I've seen Streveler suck a** in a regular season game. This year. As a Jet. Fill me up with that Kool-Aid baby! 

[Hal N of Provo]

34 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Conversely, if you claim to be a big fan of this team - and actively root for losses or to sacrifice entire seasons to "see what you got" in one player, i.e. rooting against the other 52 players, the Coaches and Staff in order to promote one player - I'm allowed to call you out on that too.

"But. but, but, I only want long term success and a QB for a decade+ or it's all pointless and we should just lose" is the most cancerous mindset in all of sports.

I disagree.  1/2 a season is fine and the rest with promise is worth it too.  QB is too important to the game.  

[Warfish]

3 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

Rooting has nothing to do with anything

The point tho, was the difference in how rooting is looked at here at JN.  Without question, a post like yours aimed as Wilson would have been attached hard as being "Wilson hate".  An active effort root against the player.  But because it was aimed at Flacco, it's all good, no one even notices.

3 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

...you people are losing your minds over a guy who is 37 and 2 years removed from 3 years after he did anything.

By "you people" do you mean a poster who wanted to cut Flacco in the offseason, again wanted to cut him after week 1, and still doesn't think he's very good or the best QB to be starting, i.e. me?

Here is exhibit B this thread exposes, people presuming other people are in some big homogeneous camp of "Flacco Lovers" in this case, "losing our minds" over him, lol.

The fact that the person he is responding to has been a dedicated "Flacco must  go" guy apparently never entered his mind.

The fact that people might be losing their minds because they've been starved for ages for even average QB play, nope, not a factor. 

To a starving man (fan), even kibble looks like prime beef.

[slats]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

See it's funny, of course you see it this way.  

Same way I see the rational side of the so-called "Zach haters" far better than you do.

We all see our "side" more clearly than the other.

And our side is almost always less extreme that the other side makes us out to be (T0m excluded).

Ultimately, trying to speak for a large community in general terms is fail, we have extremists, fools and hyperbole at both extremes, and a whole bunch of less extreme folks at varying shades of the middle (hmm, this seems familiar....)

I just want to win some damn games, and have good QB doing it.  The rest will sort itself out, and it isn't my job to plan for some far off future nor to willing sacrifice multiple years so someone else can enjoy a Super Bowl in 2053 after I'm long gone.  So just win.  Whatever that takes.

Believing that I’m on a side of this thing suggests that you have no idea where I stand. Mostly, I’m simply reporting what I believe will happen: that the Jets are going to play Zach sooner rather than later because his development is their priority. If he appears to be failing to develop, they’ll have some decisions to make in that regard over the offseason. 
 
You can want and root for whatever you may desire, but I fully expect Zach to be back on the field either against Pittsburgh or Miami, and my guess is Pittsburgh. And that’s been the thrust of most of my posts about Zach in general, and certainly in this thread: they need to know if he’s the guy ASAP so that they can plan accordingly for 2023. 

[FidelioJet]

28 minutes ago, doitny said:

i agree. but i think its going both ways

im sure there will be people actively rooting against Flacco this week so as to end any talk of sitting Zach more then he needs.

Yes, and that's sad too.

I can tell you I was jumping around and screaming like an idiot when the Jets came back last week.

I always want to see this team and all its players succeed.

[k-met57]

8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The point tho, was the difference in how rooting is looked at here at JN.  Without question, a post like yours aimed as Wilson would have been attached hard as being "Wilson hate".  An active effort root against the player.  But because it was aimed at Flacco, it's all good, no one even notices.

By "you people" do you mean a poster who wanted to cut Flacco in the offseason, again wanted to cut him after week 1, and still doesn't think he's very good or the best QB to be starting, i.e. me?

Here is exhibit B this thread exposes, people presuming other people are in some big homogeneous camp of "Flacco Lovers" in this case, "losing our minds" over him, lol.

The fact that the person he is responding to has been a dedicated "Flacco must  go" guy apparently never entered his mind.

The fact that people might be losing their minds because they've been starved for ages for even average QB play, nope, not a factor. 

To a starving man (fan), even kibble looks like prime beef.

there are those of us that take the kibble, and those that would rather try for something better...enjoy the kibble  

[Lurker89]

I voted yes but it's tough to guage... 

 

Are we comparing those who think Streveler can be a long term Backup who could spot start to those who think Flacco will lead us to glory this season....

 

If so... those who think Flaccos level of play is sustainable through the season leading to 9+ wins are the crazier bunch.

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, slats said:

Believing that I’m on a side of this thing suggests that you have no idea where I stand.

If you say so.

1 minute ago, slats said:

Mostly, I’m simply reporting what I believe will happen: that the Jets are going to play Zach sooner rather than later because his development is their priority. If he appears to be failing to develop, they’ll have some decisions to make in that regard over the offseason.

I don't think anyone from any side actually disagrees with this.

 

[doitny]

6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes, and that's sad too.

I can tell you I was jumping around and screaming like an idiot when the Jets came back last week.

I always want to see this team and all its players succeed.

me too. 

 

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

there are those of us that take the kibble, and those that would rather try for something better...enjoy the kibble  

You make it sound so noble.

Sadly though, you haven't gotten better.  You got less than kibble.  For over a decade now.

And you're never going to get to better, without getting the kibble first.

[Biggs]

58 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

There's a difference between being pissed, voicing displeasure with sh*tty performance and actively rooting against any Jet player.  Cheering for failure.    I just think it's weak...  

Complain all you want - when dealing with Zach everyone has every right to say he had a bad year last year  He did.  I haven't found anyone (including me) even attempt to dispute that.

Cheering for him to fail because you didn't want to draft him - is, IIMO, Weak.

 

 

After game 1 the entire board wanted to ship Flacco to the morgue.   Turns out using the difibulator paddles at half time in game 2 was a great adjustment by the coaching staff and everyone is on the Flacco bandwagon.

It's not the Antti-Zach militias fault that Zach isn't playing.  Players who aren't playing are pretty much dead to the fan base during the season.  If Zach gets in and plays like an NFL QB the Anti Zach militia will be routed.  

What exactly are you cheering for.  He's not playing?   Why wouldn't you cheer for the guys who are actually playing, you know Joe Flacco.  If he starts this week I'm rooting for him despite the fact I think he's done. 

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

There's a difference between being pissed, voicing displeasure with sh*tty performance and actively rooting against any Jet player.  Cheering for failure.    I just think it's weak...  

Complain all you want - when dealing with Zach everyone has every right to say he had a bad year last year  He did.  I haven't found anyone (including me) even attempt to dispute that.

Cheering for him to fail because you didn't want to draft him - is, IIMO, Weak.

 

 

There's a difference between beleiving he will fail and cheering for it.  Evidence actually impacts what people believe.  There's a great play and movie about it called "Inherit the Wind".  I only use that as example because a Monkey could run the D.  

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The common denominator is both delusions are fueled by pro-Zach Wilson paranoiacs who don’t want to deal with the fact that Zach sucks. 

Exactly.  It's not that Flacco, Mike White, Streveler, or Josh Johnson are/were legitimately any good.  Though Flacco at least brings a bit of professionalism to the position.  It's more of a statement of where we've been at the QB position:  A long line of suckage when it comes to highly drafted Jets QBs anointed "the savior" without earning it.  And Zach Wilson is entering "virtual lock" territory when it comes to that long line of failures.  Even if Wilson comes back and plays well, his brittle self is always going to be an injury risk.  He's not the guy, folks.  

If this franchise could ever draft a QB high that's worth a damn, no one would give two f**ks about the backup QBs.

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, Biggs said:

Personally I think Flacco is awful.   I also think he's the best QB on the roster right now.  

^^^ Sums things up nicely.  

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

I just want decent, average, competent QB play, regardless of which QB provides it.

If that is a delusion, so be it. With that said, I think threads like this only serve to further the division. You’d better hope Zach doesn’t suck when he returns, because you’re likely to have threads like this thrown back in your face by some folks.

If/when Zach comes back and sucks, we're gonna lose a bunch of posters.  That's for sure.  

Unfortunately for JN they're not losing either of us regardless of what happens.  

[GreenFish]

It hasnt gotten carried away. People are happy he is playing well. Nobody is saying he’s a pro bowler or anything more than a stop gap. We’re happy to win a damn game. Let’s get another one.