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Stefanski Mic'd up during loss


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9 minutes ago, bgivs21 said:

I'm sick of people blaming Chubb. Scoring to go up (what should have been) 14 with with 1:50 left and us with no timeouts left. 

Blame the miss xp, blame the defense for completely breaking down, blame cooper for aligator arming the onside kick. But Chubb is not to blame. 

Chubb is to blame for not knowing the game situation. How is he not to blame? If he goes down at the 3 they kneel it out and we never touch the ball. His oc & qb are to blame for not telling him. The head coach seems unaware they can knee it out if he doesn't score, so blame him too.

Total and complete meltdown by the browns. Incompetence.

 

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12 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Chubb is to blame for not knowing the game situation. How is he not to blame? If he goes down at the 3 they kneel it out and we never touch the ball. His oc & qb are to blame for not telling him. The head coach seems unaware they can knee it out if he doesn't score, so blame him too.

Total and complete meltdown by the browns. Incompetence.

 

I'm just not sure how easy it is to get a full head of steam to make sure you get the 1st at the two and then take a dive to go down.

I know situational awareness but he also needs to make sure he gets the first.  

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18 minutes ago, bgivs21 said:

I'm sick of people blaming Chubb. Scoring to go up (what should have been) 14 with with 1:50 left and us with no timeouts left. 

Blame the miss xp, blame the defense for completely breaking down, blame cooper for aligator arming the onside kick. But Chubb is not to blame. 

And here I thought this would *finally* convince people that it can make sense to not score.  Sure, by scoring they had a 1 in 1,000 chance to lose.  But by not scoring, it would be 0 in 1,000.  (And if you think fumbling the kneel down is possible, I don't know what to tell you, I don't think it's ever been lost, and it happens probably 25 times per week.)  This is like analytics for kindergarten students.

Everyone is so caught up in the dancing and celebrating, no one wants to do what's smart.

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I think there was an almost identical game vs the Pats, with the roles reversed.  Inside 2 minutes, it was like a pick-6 or something that let us go up by 10 or something.  Pats had no timeouts.  The Jet defender could have just taken a knee instead of scoring and the game would be over - but he didn't.  So then in no time Brady drives down the field and scores, maybe there's 30 seconds left.  The game essentially came down to that onsides kick - which *we* recovered, thank god.

I think Rex was the coach, and after the game he was like "Why should he have taken a knee?  Take it to the house!"  Bravado vs brains, you know which side Rex would come down on.

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32 minutes ago, bgivs21 said:

I'm sick of people blaming Chubb. Scoring to go up (what should have been) 14 with with 1:50 left and us with no timeouts left. 

Blame the miss xp, blame the defense for completely breaking down, blame cooper for aligator arming the onside kick. But Chubb is not to blame. 

I was just going to post about Cooper. He straight up choked. Parks wanted it more, plain and simple 

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13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm just not sure how easy it is to get a full head of steam to make sure you get the 1st at the two and then take a dive to go down.

I know situational awareness but he also needs to make sure he gets the first.  

There was no attempt so the difficulty is irrelevant. Had he been aware of the situation it's a matter of making the right decision. Is it difficult? Probably not the easiest thing in the world but the guy is a professional athlete I'm sure he can figure it out.

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14 minutes ago, thshadow said:

And here I thought this would *finally* convince people that it can make sense to not score.  Sure, by scoring they had a 1 in 1,000 chance to lose.  But by not scoring, it would be 0 in 1,000.  (And if you think fumbling the kneel down is possible, I don't know what to tell you, I don't think it's ever been lost, and it happens probably 25 times per week.)  This is like analytics for kindergarten students.

Everyone is so caught up in the dancing and celebrating, no one wants to do what's smart.

Yeah but

how often do NFL teams allow a score in September?

 I’m not saying they don’t but it seems to be more of a playoff type thing. 

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13 hours ago, thshadow said:

And here I thought this would *finally* convince people that it can make sense to not score.  Sure, by scoring they had a 1 in 1,000 chance to lose.  But by not scoring, it would be 0 in 1,000.  (And if you think fumbling the kneel down is possible, I don't know what to tell you, I don't think it's ever been lost, and it happens probably 25 times per week.)  This is like analytics for kindergarten students.

Everyone is so caught up in the dancing and celebrating, no one wants to do what's smart.

I think Herm Edwards once recovered a fumbled kneel-down ... shows how long ago it was!

EDIT - here's the play I was thinking of, not a kneel down but still a "run out the clock" scenario.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuXyDYT_xO8

 

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13 hours ago, thshadow said:

I think there was an almost identical game vs the Pats, with the roles reversed.  Inside 2 minutes, it was like a pick-6 or something that let us go up by 10 or something.  Pats had no timeouts.  The Jet defender could have just taken a knee instead of scoring and the game would be over - but he didn't.  So then in no time Brady drives down the field and scores, maybe there's 30 seconds left.  The game essentially came down to that onsides kick - which *we* recovered, thank god.

I think Rex was the coach, and after the game he was like "Why should he have taken a knee?  Take it to the house!"  Bravado vs brains, you know which side Rex would come down on.

Rex believed in what he saw as the bigger picture. Keeping his guys playing wide open with swagger not pausing before making a hit or diving for extra yards for some silly old math.

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16 hours ago, bgivs21 said:

I'm sick of people blaming Chubb. Scoring to go up (what should have been) 14 with with 1:50 left and us with no timeouts left. 

Blame the miss xp, blame the defense for completely breaking down, blame cooper for aligator arming the onside kick. But Chubb is not to blame. 

I don't blame Chubb, or frankly anyone in their huddle. That's his instinct as a player & they don't call the plays themselves. 

I blame the coaches for not telling him to go down or just run OOB once he's past the 1st down marker, before the goal line.

If they told him that, he'd do it. Earlier in the week I posted a game from a couple years back where he did. So Chubb's shown he's a team player & will do it when someone informs him that's what'd lock in the win. 

The rest of the game wouldn't have been left to chance. Slim chance that it was, the chance of fumbling (and turning over) a snap on 3 QB kneel-downs to run out the clock after would've been even less. 

It's the fault of all the Browns coaches -- one of them has to know this. I mean if Stefanski doesn't realize, how does Bill Callahan not know & pass it on? The Jets knew as soon as he did it; or anyway, a couple of the veteran players (Flacco, and veteran-now-WRC Austin) realized, "Hey, they just [inadvertently/stupidly] gave us a chance here." 

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16 hours ago, bgivs21 said:

I'm sick of people blaming Chubb. Scoring to go up (what should have been) 14 with with 1:50 left and us with no timeouts left. 

Blame the miss xp, blame the defense for completely breaking down, blame cooper for aligator arming the onside kick. But Chubb is not to blame. 

scoring was still a stupid decision. you go down and the games is 100% over. you score and you leave time on the clock and sh*t can happen. always look to control the outcome. they gave up the guaranteed control they had. sure, they still SHOULD have won if they just played decent defense. but sh*t happened and theey lost. chubb ****ed up by scoring. he isn't the only one who ****ed up but he did **** up

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16 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm just not sure how easy it is to get a full head of steam to make sure you get the 1st at the two and then take a dive to go down.

I know situational awareness but he also needs to make sure he gets the first.  

Watch the Patriots running out the clock against the Steelers last week. RB slides, before a first down, to ensure the clock keeps running just before the sideline. sliding feet first gives yourself up and keeps the clock moving and spots the ball at the point of beginning the slide. 

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Looking at the situation objectively (hopefully) ... the players are having to focus on the next play, what their job is, what the guys around them are doing, and what the defense is / has been doing. All while likely being pretty gassed at the end of a game and a drive where they've been getting a lot of carries etc.

Can we really expect every player in the huddle to know how many timeouts the Jets have, how much time is left on the clock, and compute from that if three kneel downs runs the clock out or not? The coaches need to send in a clear message - we are in "kill the clock" mode, not "run up the score" mode. This needs to be covered in training camp and weekly practice - situational football.

For as much of a scumbag as he is, Belichick would always have had his team prepared and fully aware on that front. Part of why he was so successful. 

On the flip side - CJ Mosely wasn't even aware that the Browns had missed the PAT and that Davis' INT was the game winner. He thought Davis should have been running it back to set us up for a FG to win. Good job Davis was on top of things - but again he had just come on the field and hadn't been in the thick of it for 60 minutes.

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2 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Looking at the situation objectively (hopefully) ... the players are having to focus on the next play, what their job is, what the guys around them are doing, and what the defense is / has been doing. All while likely being pretty gassed at the end of a game and a drive where they've been getting a lot of carries etc.

Can we really expect every player in the huddle to know how many timeouts the Jets have, how much time is left on the clock, and compute from that if three kneel downs runs the clock out or not? The coaches need to send in a clear message - we are in "kill the clock" mode, not "run up the score" mode. This needs to be covered in training camp and weekly practice - situational football.

For as much of a scumbag as he is, Belichick would always have had his team prepared and fully aware on that front. Part of why he was so successful. 

On the flip side - CJ Mosely wasn't even aware that the Browns had missed the PAT and that Davis' INT was the game winner. He thought Davis should have been running it back to set us up for a FG to win. Good job Davis was on top of things - but again he had just come on the field and hadn't been in the thick of it for 60 minutes.

You can be sure now that every team in the NFL will spend a little bit of practice time in end game situations.

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51 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

scoring was still a stupid decision. you go down and the games is 100% over. you score and you leave time on the clock and sh*t can happen. always look to control the outcome. they gave up the guaranteed control they had. sure, they still SHOULD have won if they just played decent defense. but sh*t happened and theey lost. chubb ****ed up by scoring. he isn't the only one who ****ed up but he did **** up

Except Chubb doesn't get to unilaterally decide the offense's strategy. It's on the coaches. 

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17 hours ago, bgivs21 said:

I'm sick of people blaming Chubb. Scoring to go up (what should have been) 14 with with 1:50 left and us with no timeouts left. 

Blame the miss xp, blame the defense for completely breaking down, blame cooper for aligator arming the onside kick. But Chubb is not to blame. 

It’s because everything you listed couldn’t have happened if Chubb had the awareness to go down.  

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17 hours ago, bgivs21 said:

I'm sick of people blaming Chubb. Scoring to go up (what should have been) 14 with with 1:50 left and us with no timeouts left. 

Blame the miss xp, blame the defense for completely breaking down, blame cooper for aligator arming the onside kick. But Chubb is not to blame. 

If Chubb runs out of bounds, they run out the clock. Game over

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Just now, Scott Dierking said:

You can be sure now that every team in the NFL will spend a little bit of practice time in end game situations.

This. 

They've all seen the occasional player giving himself up instead of adding another TD to his stats, but when you see a bad - and humiliating - result of not doing that is when it really hits home. Even when the former was credited, the truth is the ball-carrier's team was probably going to win anyway.

Stefanski's getting some justified criticism, but he's not getting destroyed for it - plenty are giving him a mulligan - because it's hard to remember something like this happening. The next HC will get criticized far worse. Rightly so, too, so yeah they're all going to learn from Cleveland's error.

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17 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

You cant put a high priced, fragile receiver like Amari Cooper on the hands team.  You can see the business decision he made there.  Hes not the type of player who is going to put his head down and take a shot while recovering the ball.  He should have never been out there.

The last person I woukd blame this on is Cooper. It's  on the coaches and it's on Chubb. 

Anyone remember this?

 

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3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

The last person I woukd blame this on is Cooper. It's  on the coaches and it's on Chubb. 

Anyone remember this?

 

Any evidence that a coach didn't first tell him to do it & that MJD just knew to do it on his own?

Brian Westbrook had a famous one, too. He didn't know without being told to.

Also there's this unselfish guy...

It's the coaches' jobs to come up with strategy, not for each player individually to overrule his coaches.

It seems pretty clear from the OP video that Stefanski wanted Chubb to score & was happy when they did, thinking that was what put the Jets away instead of being the thing that gave the Jets a chance.

 

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3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Any evidence that a coach didn't first tell him to do it & that MJD just knew to do it on his own?

Brian Westbrook had a famous one, too. He didn't know without being told to.

Also there's this unselfish guy...

It's the coaches' jobs to come up with strategy, not for each player individually to overrule his coaches.

It seems pretty clear from the OP video that Stefanski wanted Chubb to score & was happy when they did, thinking that was what put the Jets away instead of being the thing that gave the Jets a chance.

 

I remember watching the post game interview and Drew made no mention of the coach when asked about the play, he just apologized  to his fantasy owners. Maybe it was the plan not to score on that play. The fact that Chubb actually did this before makes it even more odd to me. I guess this is on the HC. 

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Just now, More Cowbell said:

I remember watching the post game interview and Drew made no mention of the coach when asked about the play, he just apologized  to his fantasy owners. Maybe it was the plan not to score on that play. The fact that Chubb actually did this before makes it even more odd to me. I guess this is on the HC. 

Pretend you're the player. You're really devising strategy?

This link has another now-dead link at the end of the first paragraph that suggests the idea wasn't MJD's but rather that the coaches instructed him to do it.

Also in MJD's case, they still had to kick a FG so there was still some risk in taking a knee there. That type of decision has to come from the sideline (or at a minimum, with the HC/OC's approval) because kneeling didn't lock in that game the way it would have this past Sunday.

It's never on the player to devise one's own strategy by overruling the HC/OC's command.

This Sunday was as much the HC's fault as it was that they stopped the clock on the prior play before the 2 min warning. Yeah Hunt got pushed, but you tell the RB before the huddle breaks: getting a 1st down is nice, but if you go out of bounds, we cut out one of your testicles. Hunt got 6 more yards than he needed before getting pushed out, effectively giving the Jets an extra timeout after using up their first 3.

The reality is they never should've even had a play going to Chubb in the first place, if Hunt stays in bounds instead of going OOB with 2:02 on the clock. Chubb didn't mess up any worse than Hunt tbh, but both are supposed to take play cues from coaches.

I enjoyed Cleveland's comedy of errors tremendously, but with some merely-adequate coaching on the play before Chubb's handoff, and then some smart coaching on Chubb's handoff, none of it would've happened.

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