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Stefanski Mic'd up during loss


Claymation
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I agree the HC was lost in the sauce. Details matter. Thats what wins games. Pathetic somone wasn't in the players ears before the Chubb TD. amari DEF is too soft to play hands team. He has always been soft, coach should know that by now.

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27 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Pretend you're the player. You're really devising strategy?

This link has another now-dead link at the end of the first paragraph that suggests the idea wasn't MJD's but rather that the coaches instructed him to do it.

Also in MJD's case, they still had to kick a FG so there was still some risk in taking a knee there. That type of decision has to come from the sideline (or at a minimum, with the HC/OC's approval) because kneeling didn't lock in that game the way it would have this past Sunday.

It's never on the player to devise one's own strategy by overruling the HC/OC's command.

This Sunday was as much the HC's fault as it was that they stopped the clock on the prior play before the 2 min warning. Yeah Hunt got pushed, but you tell the RB before the huddle breaks: getting a 1st down is nice, but if you go out of bounds, we cut out one of your testicles. Hunt got 6 more yards than he needed before getting pushed out, effectively giving the Jets an extra timeout after using up their first 3.

The reality is they never should've even had a play going to Chubb in the first place, if Hunt stays in bounds instead of going OOB with 2:02 on the clock. Chubb didn't mess up any worse than Hunt tbh, but both are supposed to take play cues from coaches.

I enjoyed Cleveland's comedy of errors tremendously, but with some merely-adequate coaching on the play before Chubb's handoff, and then some smart coaching on Chubb's handoff, none of it would've happened.

Since we can't see the link that is now dead, it's  hard to say either way. It could have been the coach saying it was MJD but given the circumstances,  I think that is highly unlikely.  Will defer here that it was a coaches decision.  

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18 hours ago, bgivs21 said:

I'm sick of people blaming Chubb. Scoring to go up (what should have been) 14 with with 1:50 left and us with no timeouts left. 

Blame the miss xp, blame the defense for completely breaking down, blame cooper for aligator arming the onside kick. But Chubb is not to blame. 

What I REALLY can't stand is when you see Nick Chubb get blamed for the loss by...Nick Chubb?
 

"Yeah, I probably shouldn't have scored right there," Chubb said Tuesday. "Honestly, looking back at it, it cost us the game. A lot of things went wrong, not just one thing. But collectively as a unit, as a team, we could've all done things different. But it's only a problem because we didn't win. So I probably should've went down."

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18 hours ago, bgivs21 said:

I'm sick of people blaming Chubb. Scoring to go up (what should have been) 14 with with 1:50 left and us with no timeouts left. 

Blame the miss xp, blame the defense for completely breaking down, blame cooper for aligator arming the onside kick. But Chubb is not to blame. 

Well, if Chubb was told to go down then it's his fault,  if he wasn't told to go down then it was the coaches fault..

You can't expect a running back to do that on their own.

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

The last person I woukd blame this on is Cooper. It's  on the coaches and it's on Chubb. 

Anyone remember this?

 

This was a ballsier move by MJD because the Jags were actually losing by 1 point.  Yes, it's a chip shot FG, but definitely not guaranteed.

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I agree with people saying it was the coach's fault.  It's his job to make it crystal clear what strategy needs to be taken in this situation.  Based on this video, he wasn't aware at all.

Chubb was near the sideline.  He easily could have stepped out at the 1 yard line.  Victory formation, game over.  I don't blame him for scoring unless he was told not to.  There is too much happening on the field to expect him to devise that type of strategy on his own.  His instinct as a player is to score.

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The coach should get the majority of the blame. Even prior to the Chubb TD, it seemed like Cleveland didn't realize the clock was their friend. They had chance to stay in bounds on a couple of plays right before the 2 minute warning but were pushed out.

They ran 6 plays in 35 seconds to score the TD. Saleh called 3 timeout. 2 plays Hunt was pushed ob.

The coach got complacent. Probably assumed there was zero chance we’d come back.

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I'd rather be aggressive and go for the throat.  99.9% of the time it works.  The loss is 100% on the defensive coordinator.  To give up a 80 yard drive in a few plays and then not defend the sideline on the last drive when we had no timeouts is absurd.  They should've left the middle open and covered the flats instead we took 10-12 yards at a time and stepped out to kill the clock.  We would've ran out of time.  

It was How Not To Defend 101. 

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2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't blame Chubb, or frankly anyone in their huddle. That's his instinct as a player & they don't call the plays themselves. 

I blame the coaches for not telling him to go down or just run OOB once he's past the 1st down marker, before the goal line.

If they told him that, he'd do it. Earlier in the week I posted a game from a couple years back where he did. So Chubb's shown he's a team player & will do it when someone informs him that's what'd lock in the win. 

The rest of the game wouldn't have been left to chance. Slim chance that it was, the chance of fumbling (and turning over) a snap on 3 QB kneel-downs to run out the clock after would've been even less. 

It's the fault of all the Browns coaches -- one of them has to know this. I mean if Stefanski doesn't realize, how does Bill Callahan not know & pass it on? The Jets knew as soon as he did it; or anyway, a couple of the veteran players (Flacco, and veteran-now-WRC Austin) realized, "Hey, they just [inadvertently/stupidly] gave us a chance here." 

Players are paid to play coaches are paid to strategize. Hard to ever blame a player for scoring a TD unless it’s Leon Lett running the wrong way after a pick lol.

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44 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

This was a ballsier move by MJD because the Jags were actually losing by 1 point.  Yes, it's a chip shot FG, but definitely not guaranteed.

Well, the collective  thinking was probably they were going to kick a FG anyway so may as well get closer. 

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3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Except Chubb doesn't get to unilaterally decide the offense's strategy. It's on the coaches. 

got it, but he is the one carrying the ball. unless the coaches explicitly told him to make sure he scores....he has blame in it

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20 hours ago, bgivs21 said:

I'm sick of people blaming Chubb. Scoring to go up (what should have been) 14 with with 1:50 left and us with no timeouts left. 

Blame the miss xp, blame the defense for completely breaking down, blame cooper for aligator arming the onside kick. But Chubb is not to blame. 

unfortunately the name of the game is to win.  an extra td by chubb doesn't do anything.  taking a knee or even going out of bounds completely ices the game.  and you can certainly blame the secondary for giving up davis' td and then cooper for not getting the on side kick but neither of those events happens if chubb doesn't score.

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21 hours ago, slats said:

The coach is to blame. He should know the situation and relay to the players not to score. It looks as if he didn’t understand that in real time, but instead figured it out the hard way. I wouldn’t blame Chubb for that. Of course he’s going to look to score unless he’s directed otherwise. 

If it was one score sure, but no one had won a game in the situation we are in for like 10 years  and something like 2200 games and players do have incentives to score touchdowns. I mean they win 99.96% of the time in that situation and our situation was even worse because we had no timeouts. Even a hardcore analytics guy is probably exceedingly unlikely to account for that situation in the heat of the moment. It is only after the fact that we look back and think well that gave us the chance

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1 hour ago, neckdemon said:

got it, but he is the one carrying the ball. unless the coaches explicitly told him to make sure he scores....he has blame in it

The coach has to tell you when to do the exception, not when to do the rule. The coach also didn't tell him to not throw it after taking the handoff. 

And it's pretty clear from Stefanski's reaction that he wanted the TD, thinking it put the game away. Most of the time he'd be right.

What's the point of having a coach call plays if it's each player's individual responsibility to strategize while the HC stands there saying nothing on the matter? 

Chubb's shown if you ask him to do it, he'll do it. 

You know who knows it's Stefanski's fault? Stefanski. 

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22 hours ago, bgivs21 said:

I'm sick of people blaming Chubb. Scoring to go up (what should have been) 14 with with 1:50 left and us with no timeouts left. 

Blame the miss xp, blame the defense for completely breaking down, blame cooper for aligator arming the onside kick. But Chubb is not to blame. 

Yes, Chubb isn't to blame, but coaching is certainly to blame.  In that situation, you coach the runner to not score and take a knee after getting the first down.  This should be done during training camp, and then reinforced by the coaches when that situation presents itself.  If Chubb took a knee after getting the first down, the game is essentially over.  Kick a field goal on 4th down, and now, you have around 30 seconds to go, and you must get 2 scores.  Not 1 minute and 55 seconds to get 2 scores.  Coaching alone could have won the game at that point.

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Here's a thought:  Let Chubb score his 3rd TD of the day because he earned it.  Then, figure out a way not to allow the opponent to put up 14 points in under 2 minutes with no timeouts left. 

Blaming Chubb in any way, shape or form for any of this is laughable.  Even if he was told to take a knee at the 1 and didn't this wouldn't be his fault.  Like, at all.  

Also maybe don't miss the XP, either.  Their Kicker missed an XP last night, too, so this is becoming a trend.

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5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Here's a thought:  Let Chubb score his 3rd TD of the day because he earned it.  Then, figure out a way not to allow the opponent to put up 14 points in under 2 minutes with no timeouts left. 

Blaming Chubb in any way, shape or form for any of this is laughable.  Even if he was told to take a knee at the 1 and didn't this wouldn't be his fault.  Like, at all.  

Also maybe don't miss the XP, either.  Their Kicker missed an XP last night, too, so this is becoming a trend.

That'd be a no on the bold, but he wouldn't do that anyway.

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9 hours ago, jamesr said:

I think Herm Edwards once recovered a fumbled kneel-down ... shows how long ago it was!

EDIT - here's the play I was thinking of, not a kneel down but still a "run out the clock" scenario.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuXyDYT_xO8

 

The thing that people seem to forget is that the kneel down wasn't a play yet. The QB had to fall on the ball and could get hit.

Pisarcick fell on the ball on fiirst down (after the INT) and the Eagles jumped all over him which started pushing and shoving. So the Giants decided to go back to handing it off, with a disastrous consequence.

The kneel down became a rule the following season.

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7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's not up to Chubb to proactively save the Browns from quite possibly the most improbable comeback in NFL history.  Go get your TD if you want it.  

No.

It's not up to Chubb to make the decision while he's on the field and his coaches are observing from the sideline & booth. I've said plenty that's on the coaches.

And yes all he had to do was run out of bounds and there are no ifs, unless the if is worrying about the snap as they're kneeling on it. 

Things happen in football that are unexpected. You don't thumb your nose at a sure thing in favor of a usually-sure thing. But that's for his coaches to instruct, not for him to strategize.

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47 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

The thing that people seem to forget is that the kneel down wasn't a play yet. The QB had to fall on the ball and could get hit.

Pisarcick fell on the ball on fiirst down (after the INT) and the Eagles jumped all over him which started pushing and shoving. So the Giants decided to go back to handing it off, with a disastrous consequence.

The kneel down became a rule the following season.

I didn't know that - thanks for the info! :-) 

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5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Pretend you're the player. You're really devising strategy?

This link has another now-dead link at the end of the first paragraph that suggests the idea wasn't MJD's but rather that the coaches instructed him to do it.

Also in MJD's case, they still had to kick a FG so there was still some risk in taking a knee there. That type of decision has to come from the sideline (or at a minimum, with the HC/OC's approval) because kneeling didn't lock in that game the way it would have this past Sunday.

It's never on the player to devise one's own strategy by overruling the HC/OC's command.

This Sunday was as much the HC's fault as it was that they stopped the clock on the prior play before the 2 min warning. Yeah Hunt got pushed, but you tell the RB before the huddle breaks: getting a 1st down is nice, but if you go out of bounds, we cut out one of your testicles. Hunt got 6 more yards than he needed before getting pushed out, effectively giving the Jets an extra timeout after using up their first 3.

The reality is they never should've even had a play going to Chubb in the first place, if Hunt stays in bounds instead of going OOB with 2:02 on the clock. Chubb didn't mess up any worse than Hunt tbh, but both are supposed to take play cues from coaches.

I enjoyed Cleveland's comedy of errors tremendously, but with some merely-adequate coaching on the play before Chubb's handoff, and then some smart coaching on Chubb's handoff, none of it would've happened.

Worse yet is that was the second time Hunt ran out of bonds to stop the clock for the Jets.
 

I can get that Chubb isn't necessarily completely blameless, but he's a rather ridiculous scapegoat when it's their best player getting blamed for the complete incompetence of many other players and all of the coaches.

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1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

Funny thing is those blaming Chubb would probably be doing the same if he went down at the 1, but the ensuing play saw a mishandled snap lead to a scoop and score from the Jets and an eventual win.  In that case it would be a blame for not "icing the game" by going up 2 scores.

Ergo, such a decision rests with - and even if Chubb thought of it first, still needs to be pre-approved by - the coaches. 

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1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

Funny thing is those blaming Chubb would probably be doing the same if he went down at the 1, but the ensuing play saw a mishandled snap lead to a scoop and score from the Jets and an eventual win.  In that case it would be a blame for not "icing the game" by going up 2 scores.

joe pisarcik only happens every 50 years or so.  they didn't even have to do a fg attempt.  all they had to do was take a knee 3 times.   the coaches and chubb were both not very aware of the situation.

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6 hours ago, GreenFish said:

The coach should get the majority of the blame. Even prior to the Chubb TD, it seemed like Cleveland didn't realize the clock was their friend. They had chance to stay in bounds on a couple of plays right before the 2 minute warning but were pushed out.

They ran 6 plays in 35 seconds to score the TD. Saleh called 3 timeout. 2 plays Hunt was pushed ob.

The coach got complacent. Probably assumed there was zero chance we’d come back.

Even after the first TD and the kick recovery he was shrugging it off ... "doesn't matter, lets play defense". The same defense that just gave up a 66 yard TD when they KNEW we had to go deep.

To paraphrase ... "It's a great feeling when they know you're going to throw it deep and you know you're going to throw it deep ..." :D 

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8 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

This. 

They've all seen the occasional player giving himself up instead of adding another TD to his stats, but when you see a bad - and humiliating - result of not doing that is when it really hits home. Even when the former was credited, the truth is the ball-carrier's team was probably going to win anyway.

Stefanski's getting some justified criticism, but he's not getting destroyed for it - plenty are giving him a mulligan - because it's hard to remember something like this happening. The next HC will get criticized far worse. Rightly so, too, so yeah they're all going to learn from Cleveland's error.

The question I continue to have is...

Is getting the first down more important than accidentally scoring a TD?

I still think in a short yardage situation like that - it'll be tough for a guy like Chubb to go full steam ahead to make sure he got the first down and then stop within two yards.

If he's told to go down at the two - after the 1st down - it's surely possible he hits the whole more softly and doesn't get the first.

As a coach there - I would rather the RB get in the end zone than come up short of the 1st down.

Jets have a better chance to win the game if they come up short of the 1st.

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On 9/22/2022 at 11:12 AM, Claymation said:

 

I think he is talking like a fan. not a coach. I would hope my HC would be being a little more aggressive in sharing his intent to get out of this game with a win, we didnt hear everything but he was pretty fcuking casual about it.

I dont knwo how good of a coach you need to be to have your team not score like chubbs did, but I do not think that is some like best HC in the league type of move. I mean i have played madden and know you want to run down the clock with the lead. I think saleh, the browns coach or any team in the league should have someone at least reminding the team of the most rational plays in the end game. 

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