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Brian Costello Zach Wilson is Jets’ future, but Robert Saleh must keep riding with Joe Flacco


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7 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Would this article be written if Chubb slides down before scoring or there isn't a blown coverage or we don't recover the onside kick? 

Flacco played well enough to lose in 2 straight games yet the clown show is ready to hand him the keys to the franchise the rest of the year. Hilarious. 

This.

2 magical mins changed everyone’s point of view. 

I will say Flacco played much better even when it looked like a loss and a big drop from Wilson didn’t help, but I want to see Zach play, we need to see what we have here. There are no more excuses. There is talent all over the Offensive side of the ball and the line plays well enough. Sink or swim

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1 hour ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Until the Jets are winning, no QB will get loyalty.  

 

Yeah....... but as we saw Sunday Afternoon it doesn't take all that much to please the fans. Watch what happens this Sunday Afternoon when the Jets win again and exit the month of September with a winning record.

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I never thought Zach Wilson had to "earn" the right to play again. He was named the starter and captain last year basically right at the start of training camp and the organization is going to play him asap, for better or for worse. 

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9 minutes ago, tommyduhamelshouse said:

He's right.

Ride with whoever WINS FOOTBALL GAMES.

Ya know, the thing we haven't done in 11+ years.

FFS.

All the awesome Jets QBs who’ve been victimized over the years by being benched.  They couldve won State if coach had put them in.  SMH.  Tragedy.  
 

Now it’s Strev.  
 

Phil, this took lots of courage to post as the huge Zach supporter that you are.  

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21 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I have this crazy notion that the Jets might not actually be as bad as I thought. And, if they start to look like a .500 team and pull out a win against Cincinnati, they should stick with Flacco until things take a turn.

I want to see Zach on the field and get him enough games so the Jets can really assess him. But, we’re also trying to develop several other young players on this team and get some cohesion. Consistency and good play at quarterback will let guys like Breece Hall, Wilson, Max Mitchell, and second year guys like Moore and AVT develop and get comfortable. I could argue that is just as important as developing and assessing Zach. 

As of the development of the rest of the team doesn't matter

 

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22 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I have this crazy notion that the Jets might not actually be as bad as I thought. And, if they start to look like a .500 team and pull out a win against Cincinnati, they should stick with Flacco until things take a turn.

I want to see Zach on the field and get him enough games so the Jets can really assess him. But, we’re also trying to develop several other young players on this team and get some cohesion. Consistency and good play at quarterback will let guys like Breece Hall, Wilson, Max Mitchell, and second year guys like Moore and AVT develop and get comfortable. I could argue that is just as important as developing and assessing Zach. 

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3 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

Saleh and JD have to win games first and foremost.  Not sure they'd be willing to chance benching a hot Flacco for Wilson based on the long term good of the team...

This.

People are forgetting that their jobs are on the line too and they'll be in the hot seat going into 2023 season if they can't get some wins under their belt

This is why I commented a week or so ago that Flacco can save their jobs by proving that this team can win with decent QB play. Flacco is helping our young guys develop with his veteran experience 

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4 hours ago, doitny said:

i know, another FLacco, Wilson thread. but if you dont want to read this just go to the bolded on the bottom for a new Quote from Saleh and tell me if thats sounds like Zack will definitely start when he is ready. 

 

Robert Saleh understandably wanted no part of the question on Wednesday. 

The Jets coach has just gotten past the whole “taking receipts” quote from last week and was not looking to create any more headlines … so when asked if there is any scenario where Joe Flacco can keep the starting quarterback job once Zach Wilson is healthy, Saleh gave an answer that sounded like he practiced it in front of a mirror before his press conference. 

“Zach’s the future of the organization. We all know that,” Saleh said. “As soon as the doctors clear him, we’ll get him on the field.” 

Really? Has Wilson earned the right to have the starting job handed back to him? 

Saleh surely does not want to deal in hypotheticals, but we do. Let’s play this out a little bit. Flacco goes out Sunday and has another 300-yard, four-touchdown performance and the Jets beat the Bengals to improve to 2-1. You’re telling me Monday morning, Saleh is taking the keys out of Flacco’s hands? 

Joe Flacco passes the ball against the Browns during the first half at FirstEnergy Stadium in Cleveland last Sunday.

 

Joe Flacco threw for four touchdowns and over 300 yards against the Browns.

 

I wouldn’t. Saleh should ride the hot hand and that is Flacco. 

Now, the scenario I laid out is unlikely. The Jets are an underdog against a desperate 0-2 Bengals team on Sunday. But what if? What if Flacco does it again? What if the Jets pull off another shocker? 

Saleh should then come out Monday and say Wilson’s surgically repaired knee needs another week of rest and Flacco will start Week 4 against the Steelers. Keep going until Flacco’s 37-year-old wheels fall off. 

No one is saying Flacco looked like Aaron Rodgers last week. But there was some magic at the end of the game. Sure, the Browns handed the Jets a chance they should have never had, but Flacco made the most of that opportunity. He hit a wide-open Corey Davis on a 66-yard touchdown pass and then executed a masterful final touchdown drive after the onside kick. 

Everyone calls Flacco “Joe Cool” and it was on display on that final drive. He looked like he was in total control and was a calming presence for a young team.

“I think Joe’s a really good quarterback. He’s seen everything,” Saleh said. “[By] the fourth quarter, the game plan has already been revealed. They know how they’re playing everything. When we got that onside kick, he knew exactly where he needed to go with the ball because he already knew what was going to happen. The great ones can see that so in those fourth quarters when you have a good quarterback who’s armed with all the knowledge he needs, that’s hard.”

 

Could Wilson have led the Jets back? Maybe. But he does not have the knowledge that Saleh spoke about. Flacco has been there and done that. Wilson has one fourth-quarter comeback on his résumé. Sunday was Flacco’s 19th. Sunday was the 37th time Flacco has thrown for 300 yards in an NFL game. Wilson has yet to hit that mark. 

The postgame reaction from Flacco’s teammates show how much they love the man many watched star for the Ravens when they were children. In the video the Jets tweeted out Flacco was in the middle of the room, surrounded by jumping Jets and you could see how popular he is in the locker room. 

But it was not just the magic of Sunday’s comeback. Flacco has played well when given time by the offensive line and the receivers don’t drop passes. PFF has him rated as the third-best quarterback in the NFL, trailing just Josh Allen and Jalen Hurts. They have credited him with zero turnover-worthy plays. He is third in the NFL with 616 passing yards. 

Will it last for a season, a month, two more weeks? Who knows? But Saleh owes it to the Jets players, coaches, front office, owners and fan to find out. 

So, is there any chance Flacco can stay in the job?

“I don’t want to be a broken record,” Saleh said. “I’ll be happy to answer that question a million times over when Zach is healthy and ready to go. Zach is the future of the team.” 

No one is going to argue that the 23-year-old is not the future. But that does not mean the 37-year-old, if he continues to play well, can’t be the present. 

Just wait till you see the mike white tape

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14 hours ago, JTJet said:

Only Jets fans would give up the potential of sustained success for a couple wins. 

Scenario A 

Wilson comes in and sh*ts the bed, we find out what he is quickly, we get a great high pick and get another QB ala the Rosen to Murray effect. 

Scenario B

Wilson comes in and plays lights out, problem solved. 

Scenario C

Flacco starts and wins a couple games but ultimately sh*ts the bed and takes us nowhere, keeps us in the middle of the pack/draft. We are stuck with Zach but didnt give him the ball to truly see what he is.

Scenario D

Flacco takes us to the Superbowl. This will never happen so its irrelevant. 

Realistically, there are very few other options.

If you dint know the answers pick “C”, In this case you do know the answer. 

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13 hours ago, doitny said:

Could Wilson have led the Jets back? Maybe. But he does not have the knowledge that Saleh spoke about. Flacco has been there and done that. Wilson has one fourth-quarter comeback on his résumé.

Good way to gain that experience would be to keep him out of games?  
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I’ll keep reminding myself that Flacco has the “hot hand” when he’s skying touchdown tosses over GW’s head.
 

Flacco has looked good enough to lose two games, it’s just that the Browns beat him to it last week. Zach is the starter, Flacco is the backup. 

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13 hours ago, Claymation said:

Easy, Zach is our QB moving forward.

The players don't give a sh*t about what the organisation wants going forward.

They want to win and produce now and if they feel the coaching staff are compromising that to placate their investment you'll soon have an open revolt among the players. The fans will be no less fickle no matter how reasonable they may think they'll be.  

Zach should only play once Flacco gives him a reason to. If you make the switch while the team is winning and he's playing well it could be disastrous. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, the Claw said:

I’ll keep reminding myself that Flacco has the “hot hand” when he’s skying touchdown tosses over GW’s head.
 

Flacco has looked good enough to lose two games, it’s just that the Browns beat him to it last week. Zach is the starter, Flacco is the backup. 

The Browns gave Flacco a chance.  They didn’t give him the game, he had to take the opportunity and he took it to a win.  

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8 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

I don’t see it happening, but let’s say Flacco and the Jets beat the Bengals this week?

Do you guys really think coming off two straight wins is a good spot to bring Wilson back? Just imagine what this place would be like if he struggles in that game.

Do you honestly think Joe Douglas cares? He and his staff have built this team, they are the architects. The Jets won because their young players out performed the Browns. Did Flacco have a hand in it, sure. But he was not the sole reason they won. And that's the impression I am getting from this forum.

If the Jets played a clean game, there probably wouldn't be a need for a comeback.

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12 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

The players don't give a sh*t about what the organisation wants going forward.

They want to win and produce now and if they feel the coaching staff are compromising that to placate their investment you'll soon have an open revolt among the players. The fans will be no less fickle no matter how reasonable they may think they'll be.  

Zach should only play once Flacco gives him a reason to. If you make the switch while the team is winning and he's playing well it could be disastrous. 

 

 

Do you think Joe D. cares what the players want? The players know Flacco is the backup, Flacco knows he is the backup. He signed here to be a backup. There are no misrepresentations on what Flacco's role is. He's a 37 year backup QB who won a game for the 1st time in years. And to make that happen, they recovered an onside kick that has a 12% success rate. Pulling out has a greater success rate.

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7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

The Browns gave Flacco a chance.  They didn’t give him the game, he had to take the opportunity and he took it to a win.  

I agree that he took advantage of the situation when it was there and we have no idea if Zach would have done the same. I get that and it’s a fair point. Perhaps, however, Joe Cool might want to consider winning a game in the first 59 minutes without some Angels in the Outfield action. 

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12 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Do you think Joe D. cares what the players want? The players know Flacco is the backup, Flacco knows he is the backup. He signed here to be a backup. There are no misrepresentations on what Flacco's role is. He's a 37 year backup QB who won a game for the 1st time in years. And to make that happen, they recovered an onside kick that has a 12% success rate. Pulling out has a greater success rate.

Of course he cares. He's 14-37 and under pressure to actually win some games now that this is his team. Losing the players and tanking the season would hardly reflect well on him or his handpicked coach. 

If the Jets aren't going to prioritise winning then how can you expect the players to? 

If Flacco is as bad as you say it should be no problem for Zach to get an opportunity and outplay him when he gets the chance. Downplaying an objectively excellent game because the defence sh*t the bed to make your point is just childish. I doubt Flacco will sustain his level of play but if he does and we bench him anyway then there is so much pressure on Zach to match that same level. 

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10 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

So, if Flacco plays reasonably well, but the Bengals return to form this week, Flacco gets benched?

I only keep playing Joe if he's playing well and the team is winning.  If he plays poor but the team wins, Zach starts.  If he lights it up but we lose, why not lose with the future of the franchise getting experience?  

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11 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Do you think Joe D. cares what the players want? The players know Flacco is the backup, Flacco knows he is the backup. He signed here to be a backup. There are no misrepresentations on what Flacco's role is. He's a 37 year backup QB who won a game for the 1st time in years. And to make that happen, they recovered an onside kick that has a 12% success rate. Pulling out has a greater success rate.

Mike White was a great story when he had a "miracle win" against Cincy last year. The players loved him that day - but there was no player revolt when he got benched for Flacco (who didn't win a game for us) - because everyone knew the situation and understood the roles these guys had. Same with Flacco - yes, the win feels good, but it doesn't suddenly change the plan for the year.

That said - if the coaching staff are playing Zach to "see what they have" ... then they shouldn't be playing him. They should already have seen it in practice / be seeing it in practice ahead of the games so that they honestly feel he is the best option. If they expect it to be a lost season then they will deserve to take heat for it.

There may be a short term step back in Zach's first start(s) as he hasn't practiced / played much. Everyone else will be in Week 4 / 5 (including the opposing teams) and he'll still be in Week 1. But after a couple of weeks we have to be seeing better play from him than what we have seen so far from Flacco. As a minimum he should be no worse. And having a more cohesive offense around him will help too (better OL play as they gel as a unit, skill players feeling more comfortable in the system, OC having more of a clue on what is working and what is not).

 

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13 hours ago, JTJet said:

Only Jets fans would give up the potential of sustained success for a couple wins. 

Scenario A 

Wilson comes in and sh*ts the bed, we find out what he is quickly, we get a great high pick and get another QB ala the Rosen to Murray effect. 

Scenario B

Wilson comes in and plays lights out, problem solved. 

Scenario C

Flacco starts and wins a couple games but ultimately sh*ts the bed and takes us nowhere, keeps us in the middle of the pack/draft. We are stuck with Zach but didnt give him the ball to truly see what he is.

Scenario D

Flacco takes us to the Superbowl. This will never happen so its irrelevant. 

Realistically, there are very few other options.

The problem is, Zach’s bound to be rusty at first and then get better. Predictably though, his naysayers will howl disapproval with any mistake he makes straight out of the gate. I have a feeling  this Flacco bubble may soon burst. We shall see! 

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13 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Of course he cares. He's 14-37 and under pressure to actually win some games now that this is his team. Losing the players and tanking the season would hardly reflect well on him or his handpicked coach. 

If the Jets aren't going to prioritise winning then how can you expect the players to? 

If Flacco is as bad as you say it should be no problem for Zach to get an opportunity and outplay him when he gets the chance. Downplaying an objectively excellent game because the defence sh*t the bed to make your point is just childish. I doubt Flacco will sustain his level of play but if he does and we bench him anyway then there is so much pressure on Zach to match that same level. 

The rebuild is almost over, so what happened in the previous three seasons doesn't matter, they are prioritizing developing/winning now. The Jets know Joe Flacco is not the answer moving forward. This team knows Flacco isn't the answer to this franchise however I get the impression you think he is. Let's see how this plays out.

I never once said Flacco was bad, I said he was "ordinary" and "stellar in the final two minutes" in the Browns game.

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2 minutes ago, Claymation said:

The rebuild is almost over, so what happened in the previous three seasons doesn't matter, they are prioritizing developing/winning now. The Jets know Joe Flacco is not the answer moving forward. This team knows Flacco isn't the answer to this franchise however I get the impression you think he is. Let's see how this plays out.

I never once said Flacco was bad, I said he was "ordinary" and "stellar in the final two minutes" in the Browns game.

Haha of course is matters, especially if as you say the rebuild is ending - We've seen teams in worse states turn it round quicker than the Jets and coaches and GM's very often get fired in much less time. Neither guy has any more free hits and winning cures everything. 

Prioritizing "developing/winning" now is a contradiction. It's one or the other. If you are prioritizing winning then you play whoever you think the better QB is right now or at the very least you let that QB play well until he doesn't. 

Where in the world did I say Flacco is the answer? I probably rate him around the same level you do - When I say "if he's as bad" I just mean when he regresses to his usual standard. Flacco has been pretty bad every year since he left Baltimore - I'm saying you don't make the switch before that shows up - If he's putting up a 4 TD 0 INT 300+ yard game against Cincy you just can't roll Zach out there against Pittsburgh - That does no one any favours, least of all Zach.

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7 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

If he's putting up a 4 TD 0 INT 300+ yard game against Cincy you just can't roll Zach out there against Pittsburgh - That does no one any favours, least of all Zach.

I get where you're coming from with this, but sometimes as fans we tend to look at stats as the be all and end all. If he's putting up "good" 300+ yard games then yes you have to consider keeping him in. But if those yards are volume rather than value, mostly garbage time, or "must throw because we're three scores down" then they don't look so good.

Case in point - and I know it wasn't you that stated this - I saw a post that said Flacco was "rated as a top 3 QB" so far this year. Top 3 on yards passing ... which isn't the best measuring stick for a QB (IMHO). His yards per attempt ranks him 32nd - behind Daniel Jones, Geno Smith, and such like. High yardage based on volume of attempts is not where we want to be ... especially with a guy whose arm may fall off if we keep throwing at this rate ongoing.

(Side note - which "passer" leads the league in yards per attempt at the time of writing this? :D)

This weekend will add more to the narrative - one way or another. Do we see another frantic 300+ yard game after falling behind early, or a <= 250 yard game where we have an early lead and can lean heavily on the run game to put the game away in the second half? I know which one I'd prefer ... and which one I expect. And no, they are not one and the same. :-( 

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1 hour ago, ZachEY said:

So, if Flacco plays reasonably well, but the Bengals return to form this week, Flacco gets benched?

Eh, I mean he’s not the starting QB. 
 

The Jets are going to play the #2 overall pick unless his backup gives them a good reason not to. 

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1 hour ago, Claymation said:

Do you honestly think Joe Douglas cares? He and his staff have built this team, they are the architects. The Jets won because their young players out performed the Browns. Did Flacco have a hand in it, sure. But he was not the sole reason they won. And that's the impression I am getting from this forum.

If the Jets played a clean game, there probably wouldn't be a need for a comeback.

I could have worded that premise better than I did., but yes.
I think he probably cares about the pressure Wilson would be under in that situation, and I think it would be smart for them to look for a soft landing when he comes back.

You might not agree, which is fine, but I don’t think they’ll put Wilso back in the lineup if we’re coming off two straight wins, regardless of how Flacco looked getting them.

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