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Not taking a Tackle early is killing us.


Neilos
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52 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

AVT has looked pretty good, the problem is he has to look great given where he was drafted and what we gave up. 

But yeah if Zach flames out that list of talent is going to be depressing reading for a long time.

Lawrence looks like he's taken the jump, albeit it's his first year with an NFL coach. Zach needs to step up or this is going to get so ugly. 

I also think the position AVT plays means he needs to perform at a higher level to justify what the was drafted. If you’re trading up to 14 for a guard should be an All Pro level guy IMO. Very good starter is second round type stuff. Not that he won’t necessarily get there, but he’s not there yet.

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Ummmm CB and WR was just as big of a need to be filled......

The real issue is the Tackle JD actually DID take high 2 years ago, his unwavering confidence in his availability, and the lack of finding an alternative in case he couldn’t play or played terribly........

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Sauce is an awesome player who's basically miscast in the cover 3 zone. QBs avoid him and they move their WR1 away from Sauce.  

he doesn't produce stats, I struggle to see how the Jets keep him long term. Are they really going to give a hundred million to a guy who has no stats?  

it's going to be a Jalen Ramsey style trade because JD loves moving assets to contender for picks 

Even though Sauce is a high quality player, he's a luxury on this team and they just had worse needs, Like left tackle for example 

Fans turned themselves into knots this offseason talking about how the Sauce pick helps the offense because it gets Zach more chances with the ball 

Sauce is great, i can't say that enough, he just doesn't help zach as much as LT. 

why not fault JD for picking Zach? the knock on him coming out was he was fragile and so far he's proven to be fragile 

JD has a blind spot for injuries whether it's Carl Lawson (2 ACL tears with CIN before his Achillies), Duane Brown, Ryan Kalil, and of course Becton

he favors these boom/bust prospects that often bust 

I’d be willing to bet Saleh and the Cover 3 will be gone by the time his contract is a discussion piece.....

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25 minutes ago, derp said:

I also think the position AVT plays means he needs to perform at a higher level to justify what the was drafted. If you’re trading up to 14 for a guard should be an All Pro level guy IMO. Very good starter is second round type stuff. Not that he won’t necessarily get there, but he’s not there yet.

He's ranked in the top 5-7 guards playing next to a rookie and changing positions. What exactly are you talking about?

 

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11 minutes ago, rldev said:

He's ranked in the top 5-7 guards playing next to a rookie and changing positions. What exactly are you talking about?

 

Two guards make the All Pro team. I said he’s not at All Pro level. Top 5-7 does not equate to top two.

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2 hours ago, slats said:

He lost three starting tackles. If two of Becton, Fant, and Brown are playing, they are good. But of course, all three are out. No team is five deep at starting OT. 

This makes it sound like something that happened to JD 

Like it was random. He's the one that assumed Becton would be great. He's the one who signed Brown. It's not some cosmic accident. These are the moves Douglas made 

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On 9/25/2022 at 7:31 PM, Legend Killa7 said:

Wow. Every team should have a backup plan to their backup plan’s backup plan…..

Plus, after two weeks, Max Mitchell had higher PFF grades than all three of those guys you just listed.

Jets are not playing well, I get it. But a lot of you need to calm the hell down.

 

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On 9/25/2022 at 3:35 PM, Neilos said:

3 tackles injured. Just can't shake the thought that we shouldve taken Ekwonu, Cross or Neal instead or Sauce.

 

But you also know that if we did we'd have 6 Cb's injured!!

No. Sauce and Wilson were the right picks. After what we have seen it is not outlandish to think both will be All Pros. However the entire OL plan sucked big hairy moose balls and I said it at the time. It was exceedingly obvious that we literally could go into 2023 with nothing at OT and it turns out to be even worse. 

Mitchell may actually be as good as those guys in the end and a real find for the Jets.

Even then we are screwed at OT.  I am not even sure how we fix it at this point

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On 9/25/2022 at 5:35 PM, Neilos said:

3 tackles injured. Just can't shake the thought that we shouldve taken Ekwonu, Cross or Neal instead or Sauce.

 

But you also know that if we did we'd have 6 Cb's injured!!

Neal looks like crap tonight.   Ekwonu has had a rough start.

Better to have hit on a good corner than whiff on another tackle.

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3 hours ago, derp said:

Two guards make the All Pro team. I said he’s not at All Pro level. Top 5-7 does not equate to top two.

So if he makes the pro bowl, he was not worth the picks? He is on the cusp. Didn't know his story was written after 19 games.

This thread is ridiculous considering Max Mitchell has played better than all/most the rookie tackles and against good defensive lines.

 

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5 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

Ahh so we’ve officially declared JJ a bust? Didn’t realize Jets fans stuck a fork him already. Welp then you’re right! Shame on JD! Terrible draft 

I'm not calling him a bust but we need a pass rush.

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8 hours ago, rldev said:

So if he makes the pro bowl, he was not worth the picks? He is on the cusp. Didn't know his story was written after 19 games.

This thread is ridiculous considering Max Mitchell has played better than all/most the rookie tackles and against good defensive lines.

 

Literally within the first post you quoted I said “he’s not there yet”. What about that makes you think I’m saying “his story (was) written”?

The Pro Bowl was a popularity contest, and am pretty sure they recently announced it won’t exist going forward.

The point was that in my opinion there’s a high bar for him to be worth trading up to take a player at his position. He’s probably the second highest drafted guard in the league, and they gave up a lot to get him.

Everybody’s going to have different perspectives of what that bar is, I think it’s All Pro level play. Maybe not sustained, but getting to that level and playing most of his career a tick below that would be cool.

No, that’s not “written” yet, but in my opinion it’s up in the air whether it was a good move to go make that move to get him. And whether or not that move was a good one and how high I think that bar should be is a reflection of Joe Douglas, not of AVT. I think AVT is a good football player and on his way to having a solid career. He just happens to not play an especially valuable position.

And I also disagreed with the premise of the thread earlier. So we agree there.

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On 9/25/2022 at 7:40 PM, Barry McCockinner said:

Max Mitchell performing better than any of the other rookie tackles is a dagger in this "we should have drafted a T in the first" narrative. Aside from that, using first round picks for backup players on a rebuilding team is crazy.

agreed, I like the picks, but I think moving up for JJII, not saying I don't like JJII, but moving up for him prevented us from picking up another OL in either the 2nd or 3rd as well as Max in the 4th. That would have been the smart move, especially if they weren't happy with the way Becton was approaching his rehab.

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14 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

AVT has looked pretty good, the problem is he has to look great given where he was drafted and what we gave up. 

But yeah if Zach flames out that list of talent is going to be depressing reading for a long time.

Lawrence looks like he's taken the jump, albeit it's his first year with an NFL coach. Zach needs to step up or this is going to get so ugly. 

He is the 2nd rated Guard in the NFL before Sunday's game. 

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9 hours ago, Ghost said:

You have to be blind to think JD is the issue. The only thing I blame JD on is the  atrocious draft class he first drafted and hiring Saleh. 

Saleh hire and 2020 draft class for sure.

He can't change the 2020 draft class but he can get rid of Sala. Hopefully he does it proactively not reactively

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Did you watch Evan Neal and Andrew Thomas last night both got beat like a drum all night. Finding a good lineman is a crap shoot like any other position. What they did in college means nothing when they get to the NFL. Tackles never got drafted higher than the third round until the last 10 years and there has been plenty good ones in later rounds.

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38 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

If you want to criticize JD for something with he OL....it's expecting Becton to play this year.

Not really having a legitimate back up to him until after he got hurt - there were better options than Brown earlier in FA...

 

The only alternative would have been to trade Becton and take another first round T. Some people were calling for that here.

As it was, you can't just draft backup tackles with high picks on a rebuilding team. It would have been a terrible allocation of resources. Max Mitchell was a great pick.

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14 hours ago, carlito1171 said:

Ummmm CB and WR was just as big of a need to be filled......

The real issue is the Tackle JD actually DID take high 2 years ago, his unwavering confidence in his availability, and the lack of finding an alternative in case he couldn’t play or played terribly........

Agreed.  Douglas put all his faith on Becton being completely healthy and it shot him in the foot.  I understand injuries happen and the Duane Brown injury made it even worse but I felt Douglas should have had a contingency plan long before Becton got hurt again 

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13 hours ago, bitonti said:

This makes it sound like something that happened to JD 

Like it was random. He's the one that assumed Becton would be great. He's the one who signed Brown. It's not some cosmic accident. These are the moves Douglas made 

Yup, it was.

Which LT would have been the pick?  LOTS of people loved the Becton pick.  Who would it have been?  Wirfs?  That argument is tired and old.  We needed a LT, and Wirfs was not it.

Austin Jackson?  Everyone would have run JD out of here after that pick.  Isiah Wilson?  Yeah, that would have been great too.  The whole 2020 draft, save about 12 picks, is looking quite underwhelming.

Duane Brown hasn't missed a lot of football throughout his career because of injuries.  But its JD's fault that Brown gets hurt at a Jets practice?

Come on Dude.....  We get it.  But the Jets are the consistent thing with the Jets, not the people picking the players, because its gone across the last few GM's. 

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17 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The only alternative would have been to trade Becton and take another first round T. Some people were calling for that here.

As it was, you can't just draft backup tackles with high picks on a rebuilding team. It would have been a terrible allocation of resources. Max Mitchell was a great pick.

I'm not suggesting drafting one there - I'm plenty happy with the Max Mitchel.  4th round flyer...what we should be doing with OL often.  I'm not really a fan of taking OL in the first round ever.

I'm talking about bringing in a more high end FA - I just think you had to go into last year assuming Becton wasn't going to play.   You're not really signing a back-up, you're signing a starter.  Becton should have been the back-up plan.

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