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Not taking a Tackle early is killing us.


Neilos
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On 9/25/2022 at 6:35 PM, Neilos said:

3 tackles injured. Just can't shake the thought that we shouldve taken Ekwonu, Cross or Neal instead or Sauce.

 

But you also know that if we did we'd have 6 Cb's injured!!

Worst thread ever.

We should have taken a tackle because- injuries! Wait, we shouldn't have taken a tackle because- injuries! 

Just be happy we got Sauce and Wilson who already, three games in, look to be legit studs. 

The Office Reaction GIF by My4

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On 9/25/2022 at 6:52 PM, jetstream23 said:

Fant, Becton, Brown, Mitchell, McDermott should have been enough to get it done.

I was also one who would have applauded taking OT early. Maybe not in lieu of Sauce, but early. My issue is those who vested their confidence in Becton and Fant. Horrible risk/reward ratio. Fant had a career year and has now reverted to norm, or worse. Becton had a 10% chance (maybe) of staying on the field for 17 games. AVT is the only tier 1 offensive lineman on the team.

Even if you don't draft an OT, at least have a viable plan in case. Maybe the 4th rounder is it, but I don't like the way we scrambled to supplant the OL, especially when its the most important unit on the field and we finally have skill players that will thrive when supported. Not to mention finding out if Zach Wilson can develop.

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Evan Neal looked awful last night 

And it wasn’t even Parsons

Demarcus Lawrence got him for 3 sacks in the game 

On the Giants last gasp possession, Neal was quaking in his boots so much he jumped out of his shoes for the false start seeing Micah Parsons lined up over him 

Even with all the pass pro woes, the Giants were still in the game with a chance to win it

Daboll > BS

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36 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Yup, it was.

Which LT would have been the pick?  LOTS of people loved the Becton pick.  Who would it have been?  Wirfs?  That argument is tired and old.  We needed a LT, and Wirfs was not it.

Austin Jackson?  Everyone would have run JD out of here after that pick.  Isiah Wilson?  Yeah, that would have been great too.  The whole 2020 draft, save about 12 picks, is looking quite underwhelming.

Duane Brown hasn't missed a lot of football throughout his career because of injuries.  But its JD's fault that Brown gets hurt at a Jets practice?

Come on Dude.....  We get it.  But the Jets are the consistent thing with the Jets, not the people picking the players, because its gone across the last few GM's. 

Duane Brown is one year younger than DBrick who has been retired for 7 years 

JD took a gamble and lost 

The flaw with Becton wasn't the original pick it was holding on too long when it became clear the guy was 400 pounds and unreliable 

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1 hour ago, Claymation said:

The biggest issue has been the left side of this OL. Fant sucks, McDermott is better than him, that's saying quite a bit and Laken has disappointed. Mitchell and Vera Tucker have been a nice tandem.

I expect the OL will improve as the year progresses.  In another week we'll get Duane Brown back.  I think Max Mitchell being thrown in the fire and holding his own is one of the really good stories so far this year.

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Not taking Wirfs over Becton is killing us. It was the most obvious choice. Would you rather take the guy who broke Iowas lifting records and is a weight room warrior who works his ass off? Or would you rather take the guy who came into the combine overweight and has parents that rival the weight of our entire line combined? 

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19 minutes ago, DjHoldyHold said:

Not taking Wirfs over Becton is killing us. It was the most obvious choice. Would you rather take the guy who broke Iowas lifting records and is a weight room warrior who works his ass off? Or would you rather take the guy who came into the combine overweight and has parents that rival the weight of our entire line combined? 

This take is so tired. Wirfs is a rt who has had the luxury with playing with the goat qb who gets the ball out crazy fast. I guarantee you that he would not have looked as good playing in front of guys like Flacco and Zach. Who would be the LT if wirfs was taken? Fant still?

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8 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

This take is so tired. Wirfs is a rt who has had the luxury with playing with the goat qb who gets the ball out crazy fast. I guarantee you that he would not have looked as good playing in front of guys like Flacco and Zach. Who would be the LT if wirfs was taken? Fant still?

Would he look as good? maybe not. Would he be be on the field?  yes. Regardless of whether he played left or right (any lineman worth their salt can play either side of the ball, it isn't a difficult transition) we would have one more tackle on the field than we do right now. 

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22 minutes ago, DjHoldyHold said:

Would he look as good? maybe not. Would he be be on the field?  yes. Regardless of whether he played left or right (any lineman worth their salt can play either side of the ball, it isn't a difficult transition) we would have one more tackle on the field than we do right now. 

You actually think RT to LT is an easy transition? I 100% disagree. Can some guys do it? Sure. Can most? Definitely not with great success 

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On 9/25/2022 at 6:35 PM, Neilos said:

3 tackles injured. Just can't shake the thought that we shouldve taken Ekwonu, Cross or Neal instead or Sauce.

 

But you also know that if we did we'd have 6 Cb's injured!!

Neal looked worse than Mitchell last night.

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Was thinking about this.

That folks still think the Jets should've taken a tackle at 4 is indicative of the belief at the time that there was a blind belief that a tackle drafted at 4 would've improved the tackle situation this year.

Some of us largely pushed back on that idea because there was uncertainty that a tackle drafted in the at 4 would've actually improved the tackle situation this year.

And now the tackles drafted early are struggling. Even if one was playing well, how did the Jets ensure they took the right guy? But none of them are playing better than Mitchell or fifth round pick Braxton Jones right now.

The big issue with the offensive line has been the approach where depth consists of replacement level veterans instead of developmental young guys with upside.

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2 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Evan Neal looked awful last night 

And it wasn’t even Parsons

Demarcus Lawrence got him for 3 sacks in the game 

On the Giants last gasp possession, Neal was quaking in his boots so much he jumped out of his shoes for the false start seeing Micah Parsons lined up over him 

Even with all the pass pro woes, the Giants were still in the game with a chance to win it

Daboll > BS

Daboll lost to Mike McCarthy and Cooper Rush at home on MNF.  Let's not jump on his bandwagon quite yet.

He also started a RT in Evan Neal who looked worse than our RT (Max Mitchell) did against similar caliber players in Myles Garrett, etc.

 

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2 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Evan Neal looked awful last night 

And it wasn’t even Parsons

Demarcus Lawrence got him for 3 sacks in the game 

On the Giants last gasp possession, Neal was quaking in his boots so much he jumped out of his shoes for the false start seeing Micah Parsons lined up over him 

Even with all the pass pro woes, the Giants were still in the game with a chance to win it

Daboll > BS

Lmao they were in the game because lamb dropped a wide open pass and the refs robbed the cowboys in the red zone. 

the giants just laid a massive egg at home on Monday night with a chance to go 3-0 against their #1 rivals starting a backup QB

losses don’t get much worse or embarrassing than that 

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3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes, fine by me.  But who plays Left Tackle in that alternate universe?

 

3 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

It's almost like @jgb solved nothing!

Until there are pro bowlers all along the line, we will never know what we have in BYU.

Flacco and Mike White suck, though. And Stev, too, despite a sample size of 0 because it would be bad for BYU if he didn’t.

 

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56 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Daboll lost to Mike McCarthy and Cooper Rush at home on MNF.  Let's not jump on his bandwagon quite yet.

He also started a RT in Evan Neal who looked worse than our RT (Max Mitchell) did against similar caliber players in Myles Garrett, etc.

Who were his options at OT that would have allowed him to bench their 2022 # 7 overall pick?  I know its en vogue in these parts to assume every good GM acquires four elite OT's but its just not in the realm of possibility.  You play with the cards you're dealt as a HC in this league (unless of course you're the HC/GM combo, which Daboll is not).

Anyone with eyes could tell the Cowboys, even with Rush at QB, have a far superior roster to the Giants.  It's going to take some time to get things headed in the right direction.  Even still, he's actually produced a couple wins right out of the gates with that lousy Dave Gettleman-produced roster (who you'll recall was just a tier better than Maccagnan as far as GM's go), something no one expected he'd be able to do.  

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2 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Daboll lost to Mike McCarthy and Cooper Rush at home on MNF.  Let's not jump on his bandwagon quite yet.

He also started a RT in Evan Neal who looked worse than our RT (Max Mitchell) did against similar caliber players in Myles Garrett, etc.

 

The Cowboys talent is superior to the Giants, and Daniel Jones is trash

Giants are 2-1

they lost last night by 1 score

The Bengals also lost to Mike McCarthy and Cooper Rush (before crushing the Jets)

The Jets are a Chubb kneeldown away from losses by a margin of 2 TD or more in 3 straight to open the season

Robert Saleh has suffered more double digit losses than any coach in the league over the last 20 games

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5 hours ago, bitonti said:

Duane Brown is one year younger than DBrick who has been retired for 7 years 

JD took a gamble and lost 

The flaw with Becton wasn't the original pick it was holding on too long when it became clear the guy was 400 pounds and unreliable 

And I agree.  I think there should have been another option, but the problem is, where?  Do we use the draft pick on Becton, and then the next year sign a franchise LT for huge money?  Not everyone wants to come and play for the Jets, which is something I don't think (NOT YOU BIT) all sports fans get.  Some players don't want to come to certain teams, no matter the money.  And the Jets are NOT that popular.  The New York markets aren't as well thought of outside of New York as many New Yorkers like to believe.  Some people don't want the hassle.  Doesn't help we haven't won in two decades either.

But I mean there was not very many options after Becton went down, and Brown was in incredible shape and had played most his career relatively injury free. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Claymation said:

Johnson has 7 tackles, 1 TFL, 1 QB hit and 1 sack this year. 

Clemons has 6 tackles, 1 QB Hit and 1 TFL.

Lawson has 4 tackles, 1 TFL, 5 QB Hits and .5 sack

Probably just wasn't paying attention enough. 

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2 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

And I agree.  I think there should have been another option, but the problem is, where?  Do we use the draft pick on Becton, and then the next year sign a franchise LT for huge money?  Not everyone wants to come and play for the Jets, which is something I don't think (NOT YOU BIT) all sports fans get.  Some players don't want to come to certain teams, no matter the money.  And the Jets are NOT that popular.  The New York markets aren't as well thought of outside of New York as many New Yorkers like to believe.  Some people don't want the hassle.  Doesn't help we haven't won in two decades either.

But I mean there was not very many options after Becton went down, and Brown was in incredible shape and had played most his career relatively injury free. 

 

 

The options existed before Becton went down

For a former scout JD can't seem to self scout worth a damn 

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On 9/25/2022 at 7:38 PM, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Ekwonu and Cross have had their struggles in pass pro

Being handicapped at HC is the bigger problem

Not to mention that Evan Neil was getting beaten like a drum last night against the Cowboys.  Lawrence got 3 sacks against right tackle Evan Neil of the Giants.  Imagine if Evan Neil played for the Jets, and he gave up 3 sacks against anybody?  We would be skewering him like a pig over a fire pit on a hot summer day.  

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39 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The options existed before Becton went down

For a former scout JD can't seem to self scout worth a damn 

And we would be bitching if he would have spent any form of money on another LT after using the draft capital we did in 2020 to get Becton.

It sucks.  We get it.  Nothing we can do about it.  Everyone should go for a collective long walk and a few deep cleansing breaths!

  

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12 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

And we would be bitching if he would have spent any form of money on another LT after using the draft capital we did in 2020 to get Becton.

It sucks.  We get it.  Nothing we can do about it.  Everyone should go for a collective long walk and a few deep cleansing breaths!

  

I don't agree.  Admitting one's mistakes and moving on from them is admirable.  Becton wasn't playing this year - and anyone paying attention knew that.

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34 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I don't agree.  Admitting one's mistakes and moving on from them is admirable.  Becton wasn't playing this year - and anyone paying attention knew that.

We knew that because he got in shape but blew out his same knee?  I guess I'm one of the ones who wasn't paying attention I guess.  

And while I agree with moving on from one's mistakes, giving up on a player once year removed from a decent rookie season would have been foolish.  Now, foolish to me was not having a viable swing tackle signed this year.  But....

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21 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Neal looked worse than Mitchell last night.

Yeah and Thomas looked horrible for the giants his rookie year. I totally discount anything I see from rookies, good or bad. It's meaningless. There young, learning, and their bodies aren't ready yet. 

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10 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

Yeah and Thomas looked horrible for the giants his rookie year. I totally discount anything I see from rookies, good or bad. It's meaningless. There young, learning, and their bodies aren't ready yet. 

Yet oddly you don’t feel the same way about Zach

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14 hours ago, bitonti said:

The options existed before Becton went down

For a former scout JD can't seem to self scout worth a damn 

Easy to bitch and pass blame over a player after he’s injured. 
 

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22 hours ago, BurntDice said:

This take is so tired. Wirfs is a rt who has had the luxury with playing with the goat qb who gets the ball out crazy fast. I guarantee you that he would not have looked as good playing in front of guys like Flacco and Zach. Who would be the LT if wirfs was taken? Fant still?

In about 18 years or so

they will be giving Wirfs a gold jacket, and Becton will be out of the league for 15 years 

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54 minutes ago, Obrien2Toon said:

In about 18 years or so

they will be giving Wirfs a gold jacket, and Becton will be out of the league for 15 years 

No one knows this. Fwiw wirfs is having his worst year yet via pff. Which directly coincides with Brady not playing great. If Brady struggles then wirfs will struggle. He was incredible lucky to be in front of the greatest qb ever. 

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On 9/27/2022 at 8:10 AM, 68JET11 said:

agreed, I like the picks, but I think moving up for JJII, not saying I don't like JJII, but moving up for him prevented us from picking up another OL in either the 2nd or 3rd as well as Max in the 4th. That would have been the smart move, especially if they weren't happy with the way Becton was approaching his rehab.

It may seem so in a vacuum, but it becomes less likely they take Mitchell in the 4th if they go OL in the 2nd or 3rd.

Not just because of doubling up at the position, though that's a legitimate reason. Rather also because taking one more OT off the board on day 2 might have meant Mitchell should've then moved up the board of next-best available tackles, and therefore very possibly may have been drafted by someone else ahead of the 4th round pick used to draft him.

It's easy to plan in hindsight with the premise that there is no butterfly effect if we'd instead taken different players & positions. I've made mistakes over the years; had I not made the exact mistakes I did, at the times I did, my offspring wouldn't have been born; or maybe I'd have been hit by a bus 5 years ago because I was in a different place due to an alternate timeline.

Philosophical feelgoodism aside, take the good things as they happen. Wirfs/Becton is a better hindsight shoulda-woulda because they're both tackles & both expected to be drafted at around the same spot (also because anything that'd have then shaken up the rest of that Jets draft would be a plus by definition); the shoulda-woulda here would be a different edge rusher instead of JJII. Or just leave it be and maybe he'll be good but just not stellar in his first rookie games while the team plan is to rotate everyone on/off so frequently that none of them get into a zone. Too early to tell.

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