Players suddenly worse with our coaching?

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

The following is a big red flag if you believe a coach’s job is to make players better, put them in a position to succeed and leverage their strengths.  2020>>2021>>2022 or 2021>>2022.  

Many of these players are in their prime on shorter term deals or in contract years so it’s not fair to lazily conclude they are just mailing it in.

To be fair, 2022 is thru 2 games so is a small sample but let’s say that yesterday’s performance didn’t improve the #s below :(.

To me, this is an indictment on coaching.  WTF were we doing all off season?!?!  Why are the schemes & game plans making our players look worse than they previously were across both offense & defense?
 

Offense

Corey Davis 86.9 >>> 68.8 >>> 71.1

George Fant 61.6 >>> 71.1 >>> 52.6

Connor McGovern 62.2 >>> 75.9 >>> 63.4

Laken Tomlinson 75.9 >>> 44.5

Tyler Conklin 66.7 >>> 41.6

CJ Uzomah 62.0 >>> (is he alive?)

 

Defense

Quinnen Williams 81.4 >>> 64.4 >>> 84.4

Sheldon Rankins 57.8 >>> 46.1 >>> 65.1

CJ Mosley  70.1 (‘18)) >>> 42 >>> 53.8

Quincy Williams 51.1* >>> 44.2 >>> 29.9

DJ Reed 78.6 >>> 77.4

Jordan Whitehead 74.9 >>> 35.8

Lamarcus Joyner 53.8 (nickel) >>> 29.1

[jgb]

PVO baby

[nj meadowlands]

Premise might be valid here, but PFF "grades" are stupid as sh*t.

[Matt39]

Jets have the rep of being a FA destination where you can coast. Uzomah seems to be this years honoree.

[nj meadowlands]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Jets have the rep of being a FA destination where you can coast. Uzomah seems to be this years honoree.

It's true I read this on the NFL FA Players message board

[PepPep]

To play devil's advocate, when you take away the fact that we are only two games in -which you clearly mention- MOST of these guys are pretty much the same (as advertised). 

Mosley and QW seem to have had a clear drop off but that brings me to my second point. PFF rankings are not always representative of how well a player plays. If you asked me if Mosley and QW had bad years last year and were two of the bigger issues on defense I'd say absolutely not. 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

Let’s add more color.  JD’s job is to go get NFL caliber players that fit …. that will thrive in Saleh’s schemes.  If anything the scores should be trending up.  

There is nothing to suggest JD isn’t working hand in hand with Saleh to get those players.  Such as trading up to draft Johnson in round 1.

JD has used these same analytics and a prudent value based approach to sign good players.  The talent is there .. with the exception of Joyner and possibly Rankins.

There is something spoiling the ingredients in Florham Park and it’s not the procurement department.  It’s the Head Chef and his 2 sous chefs.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

45 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

Premise might be valid here, but PFF "grades" are stupid as sh*t.

It's still a trend line regardless of if PFF isn't the greatest assessment tool.  It's a commonly used one and even with its flaws is showing a relative trend that is NOT our friend.

Maybe there is a better one out there.  Feel free to include it in the discussion.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

41 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Jets have the rep of being a FA destination where you can coast. Uzomah seems to be this years honoree.

Such an easy narrative.  Yeah guys like Fant and McGovern who are on their final years are coasting.  Same as Whitehead who signed a 2 year deal at the age of 25.  Or Corey Davis who can be cut after this year and lose $10M+ salary with limited salary cap impact to Jets.  

Tyler Conklin and CJ Uzomah don't care at all, the competitive spirit completely wiped from their soul and only signed with the Jets to not put in any more work.

 

[Greg555]

Was our pre-season similar to other team’s?   Seems Saleh was spooked by all the injuries suffered the year before (Jets perpetually rank near the top with injuries)..and there wasn’t much actual “practice” to be ready for game action.

I dunno.  Maybe that’s a reach on my part.  

[FTL Jet Fan]

This is the reason

[kdels62]

The biggest indicator of regression is Quinnen Williams who people claimed would be “unlocked” by Saleh’s defensive scheme. 

Williams worked best under Gregg Williams and Gase.

[ZachStepdad]

SALEH IS TRASH…. THIS ROTATION BULLSH*T IS USELESS …. KEEP THE BEST PLAYERS ON THE FIELD AT ALL TIMES , THEY KEPT 11 DL WHICH IS TAKING UP ROSTER SPACE AND DEPTH ELSEWHERE AND THE ADJUSTMENTS BEEN HORRIBLE 

[oatmeal]

1 hour ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

The following is a big red flag if you believe a coach’s job is to make players better, put them in a position to succeed and leverage their strengths.  2020>>2021>>2022 or 2021>>2022.  

Many of these players are in their prime on shorter term deals or in contract years so it’s not fair to lazily conclude they are just mailing it in.

To be fair, 2022 is thru 2 games so is a small sample but let’s say that yesterday’s performance didn’t improve the #s below :(.

To me, this is an indictment on coaching.  WTF were we doing all off season?!?!  Why are the schemes & game plans making our players look worse than they previously were across both offense & defense?
 

Offense

Corey Davis 86.9 >>> 68.8 >>> 71.1

George Fant 61.6 >>> 71.1 >>> 52.6

Connor McGovern 62.2 >>> 75.9 >>> 63.4

Laken Tomlinson 75.9 >>> 44.5

Tyler Conklin 66.7 >>> 41.6

CJ Uzomah 62.0 >>> (is he alive?)

 

Defense

Quinnen Williams 81.4 >>> 64.4 >>> 84.4

Sheldon Rankins 57.8 >>> 46.1 >>> 65.1

CJ Mosley  70.1 (‘18)) >>> 42 >>> 53.8

Quincy Williams 51.1* >>> 44.2 >>> 29.9

DJ Reed 78.6 >>> 77.4

Jordan Whitehead 74.9 >>> 35.8

Lamarcus Joyner 53.8 (nickel) >>> 29.1

“dOnT lOoK aT sTaTs HaTeR tHe mAgIc HaPpEnS nExT yEaR” 

[munchmemory]

Receipts sent to each player and the OP.

[oatmeal]

10 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

The biggest indicator of regression is Quinnen Williams who people claimed would be “unlocked” by Saleh’s defensive scheme. 

Williams worked best under Gregg Williams and Gase.

Gase was a better HC let’s just call it like it is 

[BurntDice]

11 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

The biggest indicator of regression is Quinnen Williams who people claimed would be “unlocked” by Saleh’s defensive scheme. 

Williams worked best under Gregg Williams and Gase.

Which is odd. You would think a dt like q would have much more of a pass rushing impact in a 4-3 vs a 3-4

[kdels62]

1 minute ago, BurntDice said:

Which is odd. You would think a dt like q would have much more of a pass rushing impact in a 4-3 vs a 3-4

Gregg Williams understood the importance of having a dynamic defense. His schemes with the talent we have now might actually be competitive.

2 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Gase was a better HC let’s just call it like it is 

The Gregg Williams/ Adam Gase combo was clearly better than what we have now. The only positive is that what we have now might improve… maybe…

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

8 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

“dOnT lOoK aT sTaTs HaTeR tHe mAgIc HaPpEnS nExT yEaR” 

I don't know if I should be amused or terrified reading and seeing this?  

[Kevin L]

38 minutes ago, ZachStepdad said:

SALEH IS TRASH…. THIS ROTATION BULLSH*T IS USELESS …. KEEP THE BEST PLAYERS ON THE FIELD AT ALL TIMES , THEY KEPT 11 DL WHICH IS TAKING UP ROSTER SPACE AND DEPTH ELSEWHERE AND THE ADJUSTMENTS BEEN HORRIBLE 

Before yesterday's game there were 53 DLs who played more snaps than Quinnen. There aren't 53 better DLs. Play the man.

[BurntDice]

29 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Gregg Williams understood the importance of having a dynamic defense. His schemes with the talent we have now might actually be competitive.

The Gregg Williams/ Adam Gase combo was clearly better than what we have now. The only positive is that what we have now might improve… maybe…

I always thought of it as 4-3 is more about the players and how well they can do. 3-4 is more about coaching and what they can scheme up. So much more nuance in a 3-4. Different ways to blitz and play coverage 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 hour ago, ZachStepdad said:

SALEH IS TRASH…. THIS ROTATION BULLSH*T IS USELESS …. KEEP THE BEST PLAYERS ON THE FIELD AT ALL TIMES , THEY KEPT 11 DL WHICH IS TAKING UP ROSTER SPACE AND DEPTH ELSEWHERE AND THE ADJUSTMENTS BEEN HORRIBLE 

Don't hold back.  We are in the tree of trust, so please openly share your thoughts and feelings.

[Matt39]

The prep on Gardner coming out would be interesting to listen to. His strengths seem man 1 on 1 cover your guy and shut him down. He’s gotten beat on two read and react situations in back to back weeks and has given up wide open touchdowns. A bit disjointed to use a pick that high and put him in zone.

[Claymation]

 

[Claymation]

 

[Claymation]

AVT has been absolutely stellar this year.

[Claymation]

 

[Bronx]

Let's face it, we will be drafting on the top 5 again with JD and Saleh at helm. 

[BurntDice]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

The prep on Gardner coming out would be interesting to listen to. His strengths seem man 1 on 1 cover your guy and shut him down. He’s gotten beat on two read and react situations in back to back weeks and has given up wide open touchdowns. A bit disjointed to use a pick that high and put him in zone.

How do you know the td yesterday wasn’t on Joyner?

[Claymation]

 

[Claymation]

 

[Irish Jet]

McGovern is the biggest PFF grade merchant going. Guy often just doesn’t touch anyone and he has zero awareness of blitzers through the middle.

People put way too much stock into PFF. I watched Lawson and Quinnen last week and they barely done a thing. They were given nearly elite pass rushing grades.

[jetstream23]

Just based on the eyeball test (no data) here's what I think I'm seeing.  Interested if this is inline with how others feel about these position groups...

Defense

1. DLine is underperforming.  Should be the strength of the team.  They're running around a lot, but not closing the deal and haven't been close to a difference maker.

2. CBs look very good to me.  Sauce is a rookie and Reed just joined the team.  They've looked to be two of the best players on the D and they're the ones I'm most optimistic about.  Sauce thoroughly frustrated Chase yesterday and sky might be the limit for him.

3. Safeties have been horrible.  It's really amazing too because the Jets let Pinnock walk (went to Giants) which was almost a signal the Jets liked both the here and now (Joyner, Whitehead, Davis) as well as the future/depth (Tony Adams).  This group has missed tackles, missed assignments and just been dreadful IMO.  Hard to tell if they're the ones most responsible for the lapses on defense and poor communication.

4. LBs seem about the same as last year

Offense

1. OLine is barely holding it together.  Interior should be the strength with Tomlinson and AVT sandwiching McGovern, but they've only been adequate IMO.  OTs are a total mess due to injuries, impossible to evaluate except to say that I at least know Max Mitchell isn't a bust.  He can play in the league, whether as a quality backup or becoming a starting RT is TBD.

2. WRs have looked pretty good.  Wilson has elite talent that jumps off the screen, Moore still seems okay but has been very underwhelming so far.  Corey Davis has been Corey Davis, and Berrios has been Berrios.

3. TEs by far have provided the lowest Return on Investment.  Haven't done anything after spending big $$ on two FAs and drafting a third.

4. RBs look solid but we haven't seen any big plays.  Almost zero big runs or breakaways.  Hard for me to tell if this is on them, the OL, the game script or what.  Simply based on the eyeball test I think Hall & Carter should be a good 1-2 punch going forward.

5. QB - One week he looks like Joe Montana, the next he's Joe Dirt.  Flacco is Flacco, but he's pretty immobile at this stage of his career and he's been making some bad reads and bad throws a little more often than I expected.  Good or bad, going back to Zach is happening at the right time.  We've seen enough of Joe.