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Jets Could be Down to Fourth Left Tackle as Zach Wilson Prepares to Return


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2 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Mitchell had been better than him 

There's no law that says an Ikey pick at 4 eliminates the possibility of a Mitchell pick at 111

The seahawks replaced both tackles this year cross at 10 and Lucas in Rd 3

It is possible to double dip at a position of need 

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30 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

I don’t give a **** who succeeds or fails just want any QB to be a success on this team. I root for whoever is playing. Never understood the whole wanting someone on your team to fail. Been a fan way to long for that narrative. I understand if its a player you didn’t want drafted. I preferred Fields but Wilson is our QB so I hope  for him to succeed and not be ruined by the NYJ or himself. 

Yeah I don’t get it.  Rooting for ZW to succeed doesn’t make you a “Wilson fanboy” it simply makes you a Jet fan.  There seems to ge some that have a lot of venom toward the kid and want him to fail.  If they simply said “I’m not sold on Zach but as a Jet fan I obviously want him to succeed because I want this team to be good” then that’s a fair and respectable statement.  Look I have no idea if ZW is the guy or not we will find out.  I just don’t understand the hate the kid is getting 

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Just now, bitonti said:

There's no law that says an Ikey pick at 4 eliminates the possibility of a Mitchell pick at 111

The seahawks replaced both tackles this year cross at 10 and Lucas in Rd 3

It is possible to double dip at a position of need 

Never said that but I’d rather have sauce and Mitchell 

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8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No doubt he will improve.  But will his Year 2 "leap" result in him being QB28?  Or will his leap be more similar to what Trevor Lawrence has displayed (he's been a top 12 QB thru 3 weeks).  

I agree.  Completely.

As an example:

Lawrence looks like he's really progressing

Fields looks like he's probably not the guy

It's early still but that's surely the way it seems to be going.

I think it's fair to hold Zach to a similar standard..

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3 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Yes. 98% of QBs drafted are straight trash so being an edge lord of negativity is the only way to be right. And if they’re wrong then they get to celebrate with everyone else. 

That seems high.  And makes it seem like there's a built-in excuse to never draft a decent QB.

There were 10 QB's drafted in 2021.  At least 2 (Trevor Lawrence, Davis Mills) do NOT look like "straight trash" thus far.  That would be an 80 % failure rate.  90 % even if only one QB ends up being non-trash.  

Let's go back further.  How about to 2015.  For our purposes, I only included QB's that are DECIDEDLY "not trash" into the equation, and consider all "TBD" QB's as "trash":

  • 2020:  13 QB's drafted; 4 non-trash QB's (Herbert, Burrow, Hurts, Tua).  69 % failure rate.
  • 2019:  11  QB's drafted; at least 1 non-trash QB (Kyler).  TBD - Daniel Jones, Gardner Minshew.  91 % failure rate.
  • 2018:  13 QB's drafted; at least 2 non-trash QB's (Allen, Jackson).  TBD - Baker Mayfield, Mike White (lol).  85 % failure rate.
  • 2017:  10 QB's drafted; at least 2 non-trash QB's (Mahomes, Watson).  80 % failure rate.  
  • 2016:  15 QB's drafted; 3 non-trash QB's (Dak, Goff, Wentz).  80 % failure rate.
  • 2015:  7 QB's drafted; 1 non-trash QB (Winston).  86 % failure rate.  

 

Final tally over 7 drafts:  79 QB's drafted; 15 non-trash QB's.  81 % failure rate.  

And that failure rate would drop even further if anyone else from the 2021 class emerges, or if you wanted to consider guys like Baker Mayfield, Marcus Mariota or Gardner Minshew as "non-trash".  

 

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Relying on Becton this season was just straight up bad GM'ing. It was Idzik level roster management.

Going into the season Becton should have been pencilled in as a back up at best, and we should have brought back Moses or targeted another starter to be the guy.

 

Letting Moses walk has been one of the biggest stories on this season.

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12 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Yeah I don’t get it.  Rooting for ZW to succeed doesn’t make you a “Wilson fanboy” it simply makes you a Jet fan. 

No, but obnoxiously yelling in peoples' faces that Wilson is going to be a success based on nothing but hopes and feelings makes one a Wilson fanboy.

Conversely, suggesting that Wilson probably (likely) sucks does not make one a "fake fan".  As if only those who BELIEVE Wilson will succeed are TRUE Jets fans.  

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7 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I agree.  Completely.

As an example:

Lawrence looks like he's really progressing

Fields looks like he's probably not the guy

It's early still but that's surely the way it seems to be going.

I think it's fair to hold Zach to a similar standard..

Absolutely it’s fair to say he is a question mark.  However let’s see what he can do with GW, Breece, and the TE’s added to the equation.  We can’t do anything about the OL so it is what it is but unlike Flacco ZW can at least be mobile and had good escape ability.  He’s also going to be rusty since he hadn’t played in a month and a half so I don’t expect him to be perfect but I’m excited to see what he can do 

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No, but obnoxiously yelling in peoples' faces that Wilson is going to be a success based on nothing but hopes and feelings makes one a Wilson fanboy.

Conversely, suggesting that Wilson probably (likely) sucks does not make one a "fake fan".  As if only those who BELIEVE Wilson will succeed are TRUE Jets fans.  

Well I’ve never said that he is 100% going to be the guy.  I simply said let’s give him a chance before declaring him one way or the other 

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18 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

If they simply said “I’m not sold on Zach but as a Jet fan I obviously want him to succeed because I want this team to be good” then that’s a fair and respectable statement. 

Every one of the people you would decry as "Zach Haters" has said this or something equivalent, most of them several times over.

For example: 

I evaluate Zach to have played very poorly so far, as in he was completely unready to play at the NFL in my opinion and it showed in his league-worst level of play last year.  His injury-prone nature also concerns me.

I predict that Zach will not become a FQB, or even an adequate game-manager QB in his time here, I do not agree he has "elite traits" beyond arm strength, and it takes a hell of alot more that "traits" or "potential" to be a great NFL QB.  I predict his lack of accuracy, his poor decision making, his size and body strength and his fragility will continue to be a problem for him. 

I hope/root for Zach to prove everything I just wrote wrong, in spectacular fashion, so that "Zach Wilson" will live forever right next to "Patrick Ramsey" as the most wrong I have even been in 30 years of online NFL football discourse.  I hope he becomes a 5,000 yard, 40 TD a year stud, and that jokes are made at my expense for the next 15 years of Jets winning seasons for how deeply wrong my evaluation of Zach was.

Because winning > everything*, and it certainly comes before my e-pride over posts at JN.

*exceptions include violence towards women, killing innocent people, dogfighting, and hurting kittens, who the **** does that?

18 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

I just don’t understand the hate the kid is getting 

Because you don't understand the concept of hatred, so you misapply the word where it is completely inappropriate to do so.

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Just now, Warfish said:

Every one of the people you would decry as "Zach Haters" has said this or something equivalent, most of them several times over.

For example: 

I evaluate Zach to have played very poorly so far, as in he was completely unready to play at the NFL in my opinion and it showed in his league-worst level of play last year.  His injury-prone nature also concerns me.

I predict that Zach will not become a FQB, or even an adequate game-manager QB in his time here, I do not agree he has "elite traits" beyond arm strength, and I predict his lack of accuracy, his poor decision making, his size and body strentgh and his fragility will continue to be a problem for him. 

I hope/root for Zach to prove everything I just wrote wrong, in spectacular fashion, so that "Zach Wilson" will live forever right next to "Patrick Ramsey" as the most wrong I have even been in 30 years of online NFL football discourse.  I hope he becomes a 5,000 yard, 40 TD a year stud, and that jokes are made at my expense for the next 15 years of Jets winning seasons for how deeply wrong my evaluation of Zach was.

Because winning > everything*, and it certainly comes before my e-pride over posts at JN.

*exceptions include violence towards women, killing innocent people, dogfighting, and hurting kittens, who the **** does that?

Because you don't understand the concept of hatred, so you misapply the word where it is completely inappropriate to do so.

Agree to Disagree 

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47 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

And you guys act like QB's don't get better.  A young QB, from a relatively small school, starts on a young team - has a tough first 7 of 8 games - shows real progress over the last quarter of the season...

And it's impossible that progress continues.  

It's like he's wronged you guys in another life or something.  Zach's coming back next week and he's going to play - we'll know more over the next couple of weeks.

The animosity toward him at this point is really just strange....

Calling the end of last season progress is strange. He didnt play well. He played scared and in a shell, terrified of throwing an INT. It was as bad as the early part of the season, just for different reasons.

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1 minute ago, Jets723 said:

Well I’ve never said that he is 100% going to be the guy.  I simply said let’s give him a chance before declaring him one way or the other 

I gave him a shot last year as well as the beginning of the season.  He got hurt, again, which heavily damages any chances of him being "the guy".  We have enough info on him to start making judgment calls.  I don't need to see him in action in Week 4 to know he's a strong bet to suck.  

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2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Every one of the people you would decry as "Zach Haters" has said this or something equivalent, most of them several times over.

For example: 

I evaluate Zach to have played very poorly so far, as in he was completely unready to play at the NFL in my opinion and it showed in his league-worst level of play last year.  His injury-prone nature also concerns me.

I predict that Zach will not become a FQB, or even an adequate game-manager QB in his time here, I do not agree he has "elite traits" beyond arm strength, and I predict his lack of accuracy, his poor decision making, his size and body strentgh and his fragility will continue to be a problem for him. 

I hope/root for Zach to prove everything I just wrote wrong, in spectacular fashion, so that "Zach Wilson" will live forever right next to "Patrick Ramsey" as the most wrong I have even been in 30 years of online NFL football discourse.  I hope he becomes a 5,000 yard, 40 TD a year stud, and that jokes are made at my expense for the next 15 years of Jets winning seasons for how deeply wrong my evaluation of Zach was.

Because winning > everything*, and it certainly comes before my e-pride over posts at JN.

*exceptions include violence towards women, killing innocent people, dogfighting, and hurting kittens, who the **** does that?

Because you don't understand the concept of hatred, so you misapply the word where it is completely inappropriate to do so.

This is the bottom line for many : win or nothing else matters.  
 

The Jets were a dumpster fire.   Lots to expect for a rookie QB on last seasons team.  

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2 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

  1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

 

  21 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Him, Holmes, and Plaxico tortured Mark Sanchez. Absolutely ruined him. 

 

 

Yeah, Shane definitely has a weird blind spot for Sanchez that I don't fully understand.  He hates Rex a LOT more than Sanchez so that has a lot to do with it.

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

There is nothing to agree with, you're simply wrong, the people you denounce have already done what you've said you wanted, and you ignore it, and call them "haters" anyway.

This is entirely a you problem.

He used that "agree to disagree" cop out yesterday too when I argued that Zach Wilson is "injury prone" and asked him to make a counter argument to suggest otherwise.

Don't expect a useful response on this one.  Once he used the "agree to disagree" line, he's done talking.  It means he's exceeded his ability to make a case and you've won the argument.

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2 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

This is the bottom line for many : win or nothing else matters.  
 

The Jets were a dumpster fire.   Lots to expect for a rookie QB on last seasons team.  

Which is why I'm very excited to see Zachypoo play against the Steelers Sunday, with this year's team.

And yes, it's fair to say that the #2 overall pick will be in a situation where fans have "alot to expect" on his back.

And ultimately yes, produce (personally) and win (as a team).  

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I gave him a shot last year as well as the beginning of the season.  He got hurt, again, which heavily damages any chances of him being "the guy".  We have enough info on him to start making judgment calls.  I don't need to see him in action in Week 4 to know he's a strong bet to suck.  

That’s your opinion which I will respect although I disagree 

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2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

There is nothing to agree with, you're simply wrong, the people you denounce have already done what you've said you wanted, and you ignore it, and call them "haters" anyway.

This is entirely a you problem.

 

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He used that "agree to disagree" cop out yesterday too when I argued that Zach Wilson is "injury prone" and asked him to make a counter argument to suggest otherwise.

Don't expect a useful response on this one.  Once he used the "agree to disagree" line, he's done talking.  It means he's exceeded his ability to make a case and you've won the argument.

 

Just now, Jets723 said:

That’s your opinion which I will respect although I disagree 

 

@Warfish see what I mean?  lol.  

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10 minutes ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

Relying on Becton this season was just straight up bad GM'ing. It was Idzik level roster management.

Going into the season Becton should have been pencilled in as a back up at best, and we should have brought back Moses or targeted another starter to be the guy.

 

Letting Moses walk has been one of the biggest stories on this season.

Moses is from the Virginia area and aside from the 1 year in NYC he's played his entire career in either DC or Baltimore 

The Jets might not have been able to get Moses to resign even if they wanted to 

But I agree with the bulk of the post, JD believed the line was great just a high priced guard away and it turned out to be a mistake 

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Just now, Jets723 said:

Completely disagree 

What are you disagreeing with exactly?  

I literally just did exactly what you asked "haters" to do, something I've now posted literally a dozen times and counting in reply to those like yourself, and your only reply is "agree to disagree"?

Lets not mince words, are you saying I am lying above?  That I am in fact a liar?

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Then make an argument

I did.  Its ok to just not agree.  You’re firm on your opinion and I’m firm on Mine.  I think you’re a good fan and you make a lot of good points in your posts.  At the end of the day we’re both Jet fans and just want the team to win.  Anyway I gotta go pick up my son from school.  Take Care and hopefully next week we bounce back no matter who is our QB

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7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That seems high.  And makes it seem like there's a built-in excuse to never draft a decent QB.

There were 10 QB's drafted in 2021.  At least 2 (Trevor Lawrence, Davis Mills) do NOT look like "straight trash" thus far.  That would be an 80 % failure rate.  90 % even if only one QB ends up being non-trash.  

Let's go back further.  How about to 2015.  For our purposes, I only included QB's that are DECIDEDLY "not trash" into the equation, and consider all "TBD" QB's as "trash":

  • 2020:  13 QB's drafted; 4 non-trash QB's (Herbert, Burrow, Hurts, Tua).  69 % failure rate.
  • 2019:  11  QB's drafted; at least 1 non-trash QB (Kyler).  TBD - Daniel Jones, Gardner Minshew.  91 % failure rate.
  • 2018:  13 QB's drafted; at least 2 non-trash QB's (Allen, Jackson).  TBD - Baker Mayfield, Mike White (lol).  85 % failure rate.
  • 2017:  10 QB's drafted; at least 2 non-trash QB's (Mahomes, Watson).  80 % failure rate.  
  • 2016:  15 QB's drafted; 3 non-trash QB's (Dak, Goff, Wentz).  80 % failure rate.
  • 2015:  7 QB's drafted; 1 non-trash QB (Winston).  86 % failure rate.  

 

Final tally over 7 drafts:  79 QB's drafted; 15 non-trash QB's.  81 % failure rate.  

And that failure rate would drop even further if anyone else from the 2021 class emerges, or if you wanted to consider guys like Baker Mayfield, Marcus Mariota or Gardner Minshew as "non-trash".  

 

To be fair.

I'm being told if ZW isn't a top 10 QB - then it's a colossal failure...you're counting some guys in there that won't touch top 10 status.

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2 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

I did.  Its ok to just not agree. 

No, its not when there is verifiable proof that one party is wrong.  If you argue the earth is flat or that gravity doesn't exist, I'm not going to "agree to disagree".  Ever. 

Basically, what I'm saying is you're using that turn of phrase entirely too much. 

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1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

To be fair.

I'm being told if ZW isn't a top 10 QB - then it's a colossal failure...you're counting some guys in there that won't touch top 10 status.

kdels said 98 % of QB's drafted are "straight trash" to make his point.  His words.  That was his criteria for his "98 %" claim, so that was the "criteria" I chose to counter.

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